Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Alex07   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Alex07 » Apr 21 2018 4:16am

does anyone know how to get a cav3 to turn on/off with the throttle on off switch on an ebike that use switched 5v ? normally these switches are at pack voltage and easy to tap into them !

Does the cav3 have a 5v enable on /off line ? or can i get the input instead of shunt from the 5v switch ?

or do i need some kind of mini solid state relay to switcg from 5v the pack v into cav3 ?

if i dont do this cav3 screen is on all the time unless i unplug battery

redline2097   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by redline2097 » Apr 21 2018 7:21am

That small wattage can be used without resistor in circuit? :)

madnut   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Apr 21 2018 2:24pm

FETguy wrote:
Apr 20 2018 10:12am
BTW while probing around i noticed My Z1 is quite hot to the touch, is that normal?
I can answer this because I repaired one with this problem. The Zener diode Z1 should not get hot. If it does, it is likely because the regulator FET Q1 is damaged. Measure resistance between the two legs of Q1. Should be 150 kOhm - if it is a lot less than that it is because the gate of Q1 has been damaged. You can buy a new one from DigiKey for $0.64 (p/n DN2450K4-GCT-ND). Do not substitute other FETs for this part. Removing and replacing it without damaging the board is a bit fussy, but if you are up to that, this should fix it. This part is ESD sensitive, which may be how it got damaged in the first place during your wiring and troubleshooting, so be careful with the new one. Good luck.
Oh my, it reads 21 Ohm, i guess that qualifies as much less, ordered 5 of em to allow for mistakes :) Thanks a bunch, hopefully ill be able to lift it off and complete the repair. Which part of removing it gave you trouble?

Edit:
I heated up the legs and pried them up with a box cutter blade, they broke off the chip then i heated the Drain (the big part) and it came right off: Seems to have come off without dmg:
Image

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by FETguy » Apr 21 2018 6:25pm

I heated up the legs and pried them up with a box cutter blade, they broke off the chip then i heated the Drain (the big part) and it came right off: Seems to have come off without dmg:
Good going! That's the hard part. Clean the old solder off the pads with desolder braid so the new part will lie flat, and clean the whole area with a Q tip + alcohol. You want a little fresh solder + flux on the big pad. Put the new part on there and heat the tab until the solder reflows. Then solder the two small legs and you're done. The big kids use hot air rework tools for this stuff. I have one, but still use an iron for DPAKs.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Apr 25 2018 10:57pm

FETguy wrote:
Apr 21 2018 6:25pm
I heated up the legs and pried them up with a box cutter blade, they broke off the chip then i heated the Drain (the big part) and it came right off: Seems to have come off without dmg:
Good going! That's the hard part. Clean the old solder off the pads with desolder braid so the new part will lie flat, and clean the whole area with a Q tip + alcohol. You want a little fresh solder + flux on the big pad. Put the new part on there and heat the tab until the solder reflows. Then solder the two small legs and you're done. The big kids use hot air rework tools for this stuff. I have one, but still use an iron for DPAKs.
Thanks for all the help! got the new part on, and Z1 is now cool. This is great because i haven't found a thread with the part number for the Q1 FET. Hope this can help others repair as it seems to be a frequently broken part. I ordered from Arrow (they had stock) the units were 64 cents and cheapest US shipping was 4.05$ so the repair was cheaper than shipping to RMA to Canada :)
BTW, everything else seems to be covered with some sort of goo, possibly protection from humidity? Does the FET need it?

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Rob92   10 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Rob92 » Apr 26 2018 5:16am

Hi all!

I have used my Cycle Analyst v3 for a few weeks when I decided to add a PAS sensor. I bought one from china and tried to install it without succes. Trying to work out why this is I replugged it a few times and then I heard a popping sound :shock:
I could not get it back on again after this.

I was following this post to attempt to repair this issue:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 00#p992104

I failed to find a diode at first so I shorted it with a wire. Turning it on after this mod and a small smoke cloud appeared. Something else had to be fried aswell now.

I went to the hardware store and got a diode afterall and connected this at D3. Now it is trying to boot up and the splash screen shows(sometimes it gets past this and is booting up, not for long though).

I got a video of it below:


Can I thow it in the trashcan already or is there still hope, what do you guys think?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Apr 26 2018 12:30pm

Rob92 wrote:
Apr 26 2018 5:16am
Can I thow it in the trashcan already or is there still hope, what do you guys think?
Here is what Justin said in a different thread, this is very useful for diagnosing if you blew up the power regulation or something more complex, I think if it boots up with the method below it should be fixable:

"To see if the rest of the CA is fine, just apply 12V power directly to where the output of the mosfet would normally be (or to the LED+ pin on the LCD header). If all is well it should power up to the splash screen fine..."

BTW: As a side note using 12V to power the CA while diagnosing or setting up a new component is a good habit because its harder to mess things up than with 72V coming in :) I learned the hard way.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by FETguy » Apr 26 2018 12:34pm

Can I thow it in the trashcan already or is there still hope, what do you guys think?
Trash can?! You wouldn't throw this little jewel in the trash, would you? You can fix it.

It probably has a damaged regulator FET, Q1. See posts above for how to test and replace. There may be other damage, too. The brief turn on, then off may be the polyswitch re-settable fuse acting (the big square yellow part - does it get hot?), but that does not really explain the screen going blank. It may be that the Zener diode Z1 is burnt open, which would apply full input voltage to the 5 Volt regulator, U3, which is rated for only 16V max, so it may be going into thermal shutdown. Test Z1 (should test as a normal diode in forward mode, but you may need to remove the blown Q1 to get a valid test). Z1 has had a tough time in any case and I suggest replacing it. The DigiKey part numbers for all these parts are:

Z1: MMSZ5239C-E3-08GICT-ND (cost = $0.34)
D3: S1DFLCT-ND (cost = $0.46; This is a substitute p/n but should be good)
Q1: DN2450K4-GCT-ND (cost = $0.64)
U3: LP2985IM5X-5.0/NOPBCT-ND (cost = $0.81)

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. Of course, you'll want to figure out what is going on with your PAS sensor before you connect that again.
Last edited by FETguy on Apr 26 2018 5:25pm, edited 2 times in total.

madnut   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Apr 26 2018 3:59pm

FETguy wrote:
Apr 26 2018 12:34pm
U3: LP2985IMX5-5.0/NOPBCT-ND (cost = $0.81)
I am not able to find that one, do you mean LP2985IM5X-5.0/NOPBCT-ND ?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by FETguy » Apr 26 2018 5:24pm

madnut wrote:
Apr 26 2018 3:59pm


I am not able to find that one, do you mean LP2985IM5X-5.0/NOPBCT-ND ?
Yes, that's right, thanks for the correction. I edited it above.

And about your question on the board coating, yes, that feels like a silicone based conformal coating. It would be nice to coat over your repair, but I don't know what kind to use or where to get it. I left it open on mine, but I mostly stay out of the rain.

madnut   100 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » Apr 26 2018 5:53pm

FETguy wrote:
Apr 26 2018 5:24pm
madnut wrote:
Apr 26 2018 3:59pm


I am not able to find that one, do you mean LP2985IM5X-5.0/NOPBCT-ND ?
Yes, that's right, thanks for the correction. I edited it above.

And about your question on the board coating, yes, that feels like a silicone based conformal coating. It would be nice to coat over your repair, but I don't know what kind to use or where to get it. I left it open on mine, but I mostly stay out of the rain.

I ride so much in the rain i started bagging my CA because water seems to get in.

Rob92   10 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Rob92 » Apr 30 2018 11:51am

madnut wrote:
Apr 26 2018 12:30pm
Rob92 wrote:
Apr 26 2018 5:16am
Can I thow it in the trashcan already or is there still hope, what do you guys think?
Here is what Justin said in a different thread, this is very useful for diagnosing if you blew up the power regulation or something more complex, I think if it boots up with the method below it should be fixable:

"To see if the rest of the CA is fine, just apply 12V power directly to where the output of the mosfet would normally be (or to the LED+ pin on the LCD header). If all is well it should power up to the splash screen fine..."

BTW: As a side note using 12V to power the CA while diagnosing or setting up a new component is a good habit because its harder to mess things up than with 72V coming in :) I learned the hard way.
Thanks for the tip. I just applied 12v to the LED +/- pin and no splash screen now, only some flickering of the screen.
Does this mean that below parts wont fix my CA, or is there still hope?
FETguy wrote:
Apr 26 2018 12:34pm
Can I thow it in the trashcan already or is there still hope, what do you guys think?
Trash can?! You wouldn't throw this little jewel in the trash, would you? You can fix it.

It probably has a damaged regulator FET, Q1. See posts above for how to test and replace. There may be other damage, too. The brief turn on, then off may be the polyswitch re-settable fuse acting (the big square yellow part - does it get hot?), but that does not really explain the screen going blank. It may be that the Zener diode Z1 is burnt open, which would apply full input voltage to the 5 Volt regulator, U3, which is rated for only 16V max, so it may be going into thermal shutdown. Test Z1 (should test as a normal diode in forward mode, but you may need to remove the blown Q1 to get a valid test). Z1 has had a tough time in any case and I suggest replacing it. The DigiKey part numbers for all these parts are:

Z1: MMSZ5239C-E3-08GICT-ND (cost = $0.34)
D3: S1DFLCT-ND (cost = $0.46; This is a substitute p/n but should be good)
Q1: DN2450K4-GCT-ND (cost = $0.64)
U3: LP2985IM5X-5.0/NOPBCT-ND (cost = $0.81)

Good luck! Let us know how it goes. Of course, you'll want to figure out what is going on with your PAS sensor before you connect that again.
I measured Z1 and this doide is still working.

Is it still usefull to order the items for repair? Shipping from US to EU is 18 dollars and probably takes a while I guess. Or anyone knows a good site within the EU?

Dumsterdave   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » Apr 30 2018 2:06pm

Can anyone give me a simple walkthrough on what I should set my CA3 to? I am running a 1500w leafmotor, 14s9p 30q cells, 18fet em3ev infineon controller, 26" tyre, throttle connected to the CA, Pas, ebrake cut-off and speed switch. When I stop pedaling or let of the throttle then my motor stops quite fast and it Regens the battery. I am unable to coast. I have 3 modes setup (legal without throttle, 20A and 60A) it doesn't matter which one I'm in, they all do the automatic regen :( .

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 30 2018 3:34pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
Apr 30 2018 2:06pm
I am unable to coast.
How are the ebrakes wired?
Sounds like your ebrake cutouts are connected to your controller since the CA can't control regen on Infineon controllers.
If you have a PC, please post up a setup file that you read from your CA.
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FETguy   1 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by FETguy » Apr 30 2018 4:20pm

Rob92 wrote:
Apr 30 2018 11:51am

Thanks for the tip. I just applied 12v to the LED +/- pin and no splash screen now, only some flickering of the screen.
Does this mean that below parts wont fix my CA, or is there still hope?
We need to clarify how to do this test. The LED backlight for the display is connected between LED+ and LED- and has a normal operating voltage of about 3 Volts, so if you applied 12 VDC between those pins, it would just make the LED light up, and maybe damage it. Justin's original troubleshooting suggestion is:

"To see if the rest of the CA is fine, just apply 12V power directly to where the output of the mosfet would normally be (or to the LED+ pin on the LCD header). If all is well it should power up to the splash screen fine..."

Note that he means that you should apply 12 VDC between LED+ and ground (black wire, or any pad on the board marked "G"). +12 VDC goes to LED+ and -12VDC goes to ground. Please try that, and let us know.

I measured Z1 and this diode is still working. Good. Let's see if the rest works.

Is it still usefull to order the items for repair? Shipping from US to EU is 18 dollars and probably takes a while I guess. Or anyone knows a good site within the EU?

You can convert the DigiKey part numbers above to manufacturer's part numbers by dropping the "CT-ND". Then you can search for them at European distributors. Hopefully you will only need the MOSFET.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » Apr 30 2018 4:27pm

teklektik wrote:
Apr 30 2018 3:34pm
Dumsterdave wrote:
Apr 30 2018 2:06pm
I am unable to coast.
How are the ebrakes wired?
Sounds like your ebrake cutouts are connected to your controller since the CA can't control regen on Infineon controllers.
If you have a PC, please post up a setup file that you read from your CA.
ive been messing around with the CASetupUtility for the past hour or so... Im not sure what ive done, but now the motor no longer automatically goes to regen when i let off teh throttle. My ebrake cutouts are connected by a reed switch and plugged directly into the CA. Im not sure what im doing wrong, but my CA shuts off if im WOT and then hit the brake. The regen kicks in and just turns everything off now :( The CA turns back on and everythign seems fine afterwards. Also, i just updated to the 3.1version (finally) and i used to have it so that i could hold the left button and then push the right button the CA and be able to switch modes... I cant remember how i set it up before, but id like to get it back because it makes it a bit easier to pretend to be street legal (i would just turn the key on the off if i was hassled by the police and it would restart in mode 1 (250w max).

I have a macbook and it says its an invalid file to upload (xxxx.hex) so i uploaded it as a .txt... Maybe you can rename it with the .hex ending and then open it?
dumsterdave CA3.txt
(1.32 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

PRW   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by PRW » May 01 2018 12:19am

struggling with throttle in/ out settings a bit...

at Setup Throttle In, Zero throttle is 0.85, WOT is 4.28
so, I set Thrl->MinInput to 1.00, and Thrl->MaxInput to 4.13

Thrl->FaultVolt is set at 4.55
ThO->MinOut is set to 1.00, and ThrO->MaxOut is set at 4.13.

When I use the throttle (you can here the sound) - power starts at about 1.50, and cuts at about 3.95, i.e. cuts out before WOT.

What am I doing wrong? thanks!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 01 2018 9:18am

PRW wrote:
May 01 2018 12:19am
When I use the throttle (you can here the sound) - power starts at about 1.50, and cuts at about 3.95, i.e. cuts out before WOT.

at Setup Throttle In, Zero throttle is 0.85, WOT is 4.28
so, I set Thrl->MinInput to 1.00, and Thrl->MaxInput to 4.13

Thrl->FaultVolt is set at 4.55
ThO->MinOut is set to 1.00, and ThrO->MaxOut is set at 4.13.
I would say that you are confusing the operator throttle output voltage range with the controller input voltage range. The purpose of these CA settings is to map the BLUE range above into the RED range above. The issue appears to be the GREEN settings which you have set to reflect the operator throttle range (BLUE) instead of the controller range (RED).

Here we want set the ThrO range very slightly larger than what the controller wants to see to operate the motor ZERO to WOT. Based on what you have written about the OUT voltages (RED), I would recommend:

ThrO->MinOut = 1.45
ThrO->MaxOut = 4.00


Here the idea is that (in PassThru mode):
  • when the CA sees 'Throttle ZERO' it will send output 'Controller ZERO'
    Thrl->MinInput = 1.00 ===> ThrO->MinOut = 1.45
    and
  • when the CA sees 'Throttle WOT' it will send output 'Controller WOT'
    Thrl->MaxInput = 4.13 ===> ThrO->MaxOut = 4.00
By doing this the CA re-maps the operator throttle range to the controller range to minimize throttle dead zones.
Last edited by teklektik on May 01 2018 8:04pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by PRW » May 01 2018 9:41am

thanks teklektik - I'm going to need to keep your note handy for the rest of time!

At ThrO->MinOut = 1.38, and ThrO->MaxOut = 3.85, it is absolutely perfect.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » May 01 2018 2:49pm

I tested the bike on the road today and it wasn't shutting off when I applied the brakes and it also was not automstically doing regen when i let go of the throttle,s but I realised that I must have had the throttle out MinOut set too high and at rest my CA was displaying 5W. I was wondering why there was a bit of drag when I tried to push the bike backwards. So, I changed the value from 1.45 to 1.40 and that fixed the drag and 5w problem, but now if I let off the throttle, the bike automatically turns on regen without me hitting the brakes :( is this a controller issue or are my settings on the CA screwed?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » May 01 2018 3:43pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
May 01 2018 2:49pm
I tested the bike on the road today and it wasn't shutting off when I applied the brakes and it also was not automstically doing regen when i let go of the throttle,s but I realised that I must have had the throttle out MinOut set too high and at rest my CA was displaying 5W. I was wondering why there was a bit of drag when I tried to push the bike backwards. So, I changed the value from 1.45 to 1.40 and that fixed the drag and 5w problem, but now if I let off the throttle, the bike automatically turns on regen without me hitting the brakes :( is this a controller issue or are my settings on the CA screwed?
Regen is usually a controller setup.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 01 2018 4:08pm

Hey DD-
Sorry not to get back - very busy weekend and your setup file sort of fell out of my head...
DD wrote: Im not sure what im doing wrong, but my CA shuts off if im WOT and then hit the brake. The regen kicks in and just turns everything off now :( The CA turns back on and everythign seems fine afterwards.
I'm struggling a little here to understand the state of affairs, so bear with me. This seems seriously messed up and sounds like an electrical problem. There is really no point in pursuing anything else until this major issue is fixed. When the CA 'shuts off' does it reboot with a splash screen afterwards or does the screen just go blank then come back?

Also - are you are saying that you have regen because the CA amps reading is negative or is there actually noticeable motor braking? Are you using a CA3_Adapter thingie to drive the controller ebrake inputs? Unless the EM3EV Infineon (actually Xie Chang) controllers have been upgraded, the CA cannot control EM3EV controller regen, so this is perplexing...

There are a couple of things we might do here, but the whole CA-turning-off thing needs to get fixed since there's no point in trying to make the hardware work if it's obviously unhappy about the wiring or whatever.
  • FWIW: - your setup file doesn't look unreasonable - except that you have have a PAS device installed but not configured to do anything. Nothing else jumps out at me with the possible exception of the ZERO AMPs offsets which are suspiciously close to default. This isn't bad in itself, but with your possible regen indication issue (negative Amps), it makes me wonder if you have ZEROed the amps in the Calibration section. In any case, that would be worth doing again to ensure the zero offsets are correct.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » May 02 2018 1:21am

teklektik wrote:
May 01 2018 4:08pm

When the CA 'shuts off' does it reboot with a splash screen afterwards or does the screen just go blank then come back?
Everything goes dark and then the splash screen comes back on after about 1 second and the CA reboots.
teklektik wrote:
May 01 2018 4:08pm

Also - are you are saying that you have regen because the CA amps reading is negative or is there actually noticeable motor braking?
There is both a negative reading on the CA and a noticeable motor braking :/
teklektik wrote:
May 01 2018 4:08pm

Are you using a CA3_Adapter thingie to drive the controller ebrake inputs? Unless the EM3EV Infineon (actually Xie Chang) controllers have been upgraded, the CA cannot control EM3EV controller regen, so this is perplexing...
I'm not sure about this one, but i am using a magnetic reed switch that is plugged directly into the CA.

I turned the PAS back on and raised the zero amps. Still having issues.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » May 02 2018 4:07am

I'll have to mess with it later, but I was on my way out the door and turned the bike on, but the CA said "settings changed" or something similar to that. The throttle no longer works I noticed quite a few settings have changed without me doing anything. Maybe there is some short with the CA? It changed to hi voltage mode and I think it set it to 200A and 20000 W (I could be way off, but it was set much higher than I usually have it). I'll update this post later today when I get home

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 02 2018 9:32am

Dumsterdave wrote:
May 02 2018 4:07am
...I was on my way out the door and turned the bike on, but the CA said "settings changed" or something similar to that.
Okay, this does not appear to be a configuration issue and needs to be pursued by Grin directly. I'm entering this incident into the bug tracking system so it has visibility.

Please email Grin Info and Support as on their web contact page (info@ebikes.ca) and do two things:
  1. Mention this discussion in the CA V3 Beta thread as a reference to the history of your issue and
  2. Include a new setup file pulled from the CA before you change any settings.
This will get the matter in the pipe without recounting your experiences again, will get the freshest setup for analysis, and will get one-on-one assistance to help resolve this issue. Thanks for posting about this.
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