Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Feb 14 2013 11:25pm

justin_le wrote:However, I do find that sometimes after braking I want the autocruise to automatically resume where it was at rather than having to relatch it. While other times (say after you come to a stop), that would be quite disconcerting. So I am considering adding an option where you can have it resume when ebrakes are released if you've only slowed down but haven't come close to an actual stop.
A slightly different version of that would be very useful for me--I don't usually have to slow down on the way to work or on any of my other rides except when I must stop for traffic controls, so that kind of mode would be nice, but with the exception that I need it to resume from a complete stop.

Releasing cruise would then be done by moving the throttle again to a different position from zero.

Of course, for my purposes, since the speed I want is always the same (a hair under 20MPH), I could just put a thumbswitch on there that turns on a voltage divider to the throttle input. I don't know if that would work for other people that have my particular need.

Actually, instead of a feature request, I think I'll just do it in hardware as described above--should save lots of time on your end. :)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by k.ewin » Feb 15 2013 2:58am

Hi Justin,

did you see our requests for an additional PAS mode?

Currently "RPM mode" means someting like: Output = (PAS OR Throttle)
There are requests for a mode that would mean: Output = (PAS AND Throttle)

I have filed such a request here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 75#p687166
This one by electricwheels points to the same direction: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 20#p689814
We had some others agree.

This is mostly for Europeans, because in many European countries, a throttle controlled bike is allowed only when the throttle is cut off when not pedalling.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 15 2013 9:30am

k.ewin wrote:did you see our requests for an additional PAS mode?
...
There are requests for a mode that would mean: Output = (PAS AND Throttle)

This is mostly for Europeans, because in many European countries, a throttle controlled bike is allowed only when the throttle is cut off when not pedaling.
I think in this post lollandster was expressing interest in a similar mode that would work for THUN users.

Not to muddy the waters (please ignore this post entirely if this is going off track) but I think you are requesting mode 5 below and lollandster was after mode 6. Does this seem correct? The exact implementation of Setup parameters is not the point below - just going after a succinct description of the desired behavior.

Proposal A
  • PAS Mode – Select which pedal assist (PAS) mode is used:
    1. PAS Off: With this setting, pedal rotation or pedal torque does not drive the throttle output of the CA. You can still see and log your cadence RPM and human watts, but you must use a throttle to regulate the motor power.
    2. Trq Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable torque-based assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedaling drives the controller with a power limit that is proportional to the amount of human pedal torque, enabling proportional assist. This case provides torque-based operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the torque assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    3. RPM Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable PAS assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedaling drives the controller at ThrO->MaxOutput until one of the limit terms is reached. This case provides PAS-only operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the PAS assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    4. PAS>6kph: With this setting, the PAS 6kph threshold acts as a gate to enable and disable normal throttle operation:
      • below 6kph the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling
      • above 6kph the throttle is disabled unless there is pedaling
    5. RPM+Thr: With this setting, pedaling enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • With no pedaling, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
      • With pedaling, the throttle operates normally.
    6. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • With no pedal torque, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
      • With pedal torque, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
Last edited by teklektik on Feb 15 2013 11:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lollandster » Feb 15 2013 10:27am

teklektik wrote:I think in this post lollandster was expressing interest in a similar mode that would work for THUN users.

Not to muddy the waters (please ignore this post entirely if this is going off track) but I think you are requesting mode 5 below and lollandster was after mode 6. Does this seem correct? The exact implementation of Setup parameters is not the point below - just going after a succinct description of the desired behavior.

6. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
  • With no pedal torque, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
  • With pedal torque, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
You are correct, that is exactly what I asked for, but the pedaling detection can of course be RPM based and not torque as it only detects torque once every revolution or so.
I would phrase it like this:

6. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
  • With no pedal detection, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
  • With pedal detection, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
The solution Justin proposed with a throttle off option satisfies my needs (especially if this is mode dependent). But your solution is even better.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 15 2013 11:04am

lollandster wrote:You are correct, that is exactly what I asked for, but the pedaling detection can of course be RPM based and not torque as it only detects torque once every revolution or so.
I would phrase it like this:

6. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
  • With no pedal detection, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
  • With pedal detection, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
The solution Justin proposed with a throttle off option satisfies my needs (especially if this is mode dependent). But your solution is even better.
Thanks for the quick response. Your modification should make for more desirable behavior (throttle works with 'faux pedaling').

(You are 6 hours ahead of me and 9 hours ahead of Justin - just trying to get a little time zone jump on his day ;-) )
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by k.ewin » Feb 15 2013 12:01pm

teklektik wrote:Not to muddy the waters (please ignore this post entirely if this is going off track) but I think you are requesting mode 5 below and lollandster was after mode 6. Does this seem correct?
Yes, I am requesting mode 5. Thank you for pointing out the difference!
teklektik wrote:4. PAS>6kph: With this setting, the PAS 6kph threshold acts as a gate to enable and disable normal throttle operation:
  • below 6kph the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling
  • above 6kph the throttle is disabled unless there is pedaling
I suggest that mode 4 should not be a mode, but an additional setting. Something like "throttle only max speed". It could be combined with modes 3, 5 or 6.

E.g. in Switzerland the maximum throttle only speed for fast e-bikes is 20kph, while the maximum pedal assisted speed is 45 kph.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 15 2013 1:00pm

k.ewin wrote:Yes, I am requesting mode 5.
teklektik wrote:4. PAS>6kph: With this setting, the PAS 6kph threshold acts as a gate to enable and disable normal throttle operation:
  • below 6kph the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling
  • above 6kph the throttle is disabled unless there is pedaling
I suggest that mode 4 should not be a mode, but an additional setting. Something like "throttle only max speed". It could be combined with modes 3, 5 or 6.

E.g. in Switzerland the maximum throttle only speed for fast e-bikes is 20kph, while the maximum pedal assisted speed is 45 kph.
Thanks for the quick response. :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by electricwheels.de » Feb 15 2013 2:27pm

teklektik wrote:
k.ewin wrote:did you see our requests for an additional PAS mode?
...
There are requests for a mode that would mean: Output = (PAS AND Throttle)

This is mostly for Europeans, because in many European countries, a throttle controlled bike is allowed only when the throttle is cut off when not pedaling.
I think in this post lollandster was expressing interest in a similar mode that would work for THUN users.

Not to muddy the waters (please ignore this post entirely if this is going off track) but I think you are requesting mode 5 below and lollandster was after mode 6. Does this seem correct? The exact implementation of Setup parameters is not the point below - just going after a succinct description of the desired behavior.
  • PAS Mode – Select which pedal assist (PAS) mode is used:
    1. PAS Off: With this setting, pedal rotation or pedal torque does not drive the throttle output of the CA. You can still see and log your cadence RPM and human watts, but you must use a throttle to regulate the motor power.
    2. Trq Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable torque-based assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedaling drives the controller with a power limit that is proportional to the amount of human pedal torque, enabling proportional assist. This case provides torque-based operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the torque assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    3. RPM Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable PAS assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedaling drives the controller at ThrO->MaxOutput until one of the limit terms is reached. This case provides PAS-only operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the PAS assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    4. PAS>6kph: With this setting, the PAS 6kph threshold acts as a gate to enable and disable normal throttle operation:
      • below 6kph the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling
      • above 6kph the throttle is disabled unless there is pedaling
    5. RPM+Thr: With this setting, pedaling enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • With no pedaling, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
      • With pedaling, the throttle operates normally.
    6. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • With no pedal torque, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
      • With pedal torque, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
Yes! Yes! Yes!

:D Point 5 ---> RPM + Thr ...we are definitely on the right track :mrgreen:
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2013 1:19am

Here is the original Proposal A updated with lollandster's modifications:
Proposal B
  • PAS->PAS Mode – Specifies the pedal assist (PAS) mode.
    In all cases below, 'pedal RPM' refers to RPM-based pedal detection according to: PAS->StrtDelay, PAS->StopDelay, and Dir = Fwd.
    1. PAS Off: With this setting, cadence RPM and human watts are displayed but Throttle OUT is driven exclusively by the throttle and is unaffected by either pedal RPM or pedal torque.
    2. Trq Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable torque-based assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedaling drives the controller with a power limit that is proportional to the amount of human pedal torque, enabling proportional assist. This case provides torque-based operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the torque assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    3. RPM Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable PAS assistance.
      • Without throttle engaged, pedal RPM drives the controller at ThrO->MaxOutput until one of the limit terms is reached. This case provides PAS-only operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the PAS assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    4. PAS>6kph: With this setting, the PAS 6kph threshold acts as a gate to enable and disable normal throttle operation:
      • below 6kph the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling
      • above 6kph the throttle is disabled unless pedal RPM is detected.
    5. RPM+Thr: With this setting, pedal RPM enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • With no pedal RPM, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
      • With pedal RPM, the throttle operates normally.
    6. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • With no pedal RPM, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
      • With pedal RPM, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
Here is the original Proposal A updated with both lollandster's and k.ewin's recommendations:
Proposal C
  • PAS->PedRqdSpd - Speed below which Throttle OUT is driven by the throttle with or without pedaling. Above this speed pedaling is required for the throttle to operate. Set to 0 to require pedaling at all speeds.
  • PAS->PAS Mode – Specifies the pedal assist (PAS) mode.
    In all cases below, 'pedal RPM' refers to RPM-based pedal detection according to PAS->StrtDelay, PAS->StopDelay, and Dir = Fwd.
    1. PAS Off: With this setting, cadence RPM and human watts are displayed but Throttle OUT is driven exclusively by the throttle and is unaffected by either pedal RPM or pedal torque.
    2. Trq Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable torque-based assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedaling drives the controller with a power limit that is proportional to the amount of human pedal torque, enabling proportional assist. This case provides torque-based operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the torque assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    3. RPM Cntrl: With this setting, throttle greater than ZERO acts as a gate to enable and disable PAS assistance:
      • Without throttle engaged, pedal RPM drives the controller at ThrO->MaxOutput until one of the limit terms is reached. This case provides PAS-only operation if no throttle is connected.
      • With throttle engaged, the PAS assist mode is effectively disabled and the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
    4. RPM+Thr: With this setting, pedal RPM enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • Below PAS->PedRqdSpd, the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
      • Above PAS->PedRqdSpd
        • With no pedal RPM, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
        • With pedal RPM, the throttle operates normally.
    5. Trq+Thr: With this setting, pedaling torque provides proportional assist and enables the throttle. This is a Euro compliance mode.
      • Below PAS->PedRqdSpd, the throttle operates normally with or without pedaling.
      • Above PAS->PedRqdSpd
        • with no pedal RPM, the throttle is disabled and no assist is applied.
        • With pedal RPM, the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque.
In this last case, folks might configure with:

Code: Select all

      lollandster: PAS->PedRqdSpd =  0 kph   PAS->PASMode = Trq+Thr  (THUN - Norway)
electricwheels.de: PAS->PedRqdSpd =  0 kph   PAS->PASMode = RPM+Thr  (PAS  - Germany)
           k.ewin: PAS->PedRqdSpd = 20 kph   PAS->PASMode = RPM+Thr  (PAS  - Switzerland)
        justin_le: PAS->PedRqdSpd =  0 kph   PAS->PASMode = TrqCntrl (THUN - Canada)
            guy_1: PAS->PedRqdSpd =  0 kph   PAS->PASMode = RPMCntrl (PAS  - USA)
            guy_2: PAS->PedRqdSpd =  6 kph   PAS->PASMode = RPM+Thr  (PAS  - USA) (formerly PAS>6kph)
Again, this is only an attempt to understand needs - there are other configurations or representations yielding equivalent functionality... :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lollandster » Feb 16 2013 2:36am

If you set PAS->PedRqdSpd to 99kph then Trq+Thr would work exactly as Trq Cntrl, wouldn't it? Making the old mode redundant.
if
  • Below PAS->PedRqdSpd the controller is driven with a level that is the greater of the throttle level or a power level proportional to the amount of human pedal torque. With or without pedaling
EDIT: I just saw that throttle on the Trq Cntrl disables the Torque reading so they aren't the same. Ignore what I wrote above.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2013 2:53am

yep - keeping these modes straight is a little slippery - that's why I wanted to get this formalized a bit... Thanks for reviewing this stuff.

I actually saw exactly the same thing - there's really no reason that Trq Cntrl couldn't be redefined to be that way, but we are edging into the implementation area where a small change here or there might simplify the underlying code. We need to see how all this looks to Justin and what he comes up with...
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lollandster » Feb 16 2013 3:07am

I might add that I personally wouldn't mind if the Trq+Thr mode worked like Trq Cntrl with just the PedRqdSpd added as long as throttle doesn't work without pedaling if I set PedRqdSpd=0. If that makes it easier to program. I imagine that combining those modes would save some programming lines. It would be like the speed limit option, you can't disable it, but you can set it to 99kph (or higher if you don't like the SI system or use high range).

My experience with MCU programming is limited so take that into account if I'm way off here.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by k.ewin » Feb 16 2013 5:43am

Maybe it would help to take the mode setting apart and use several settings.

Something like:
PAS Mode:
  • Off
  • Trq Cntrl
  • RPM Cntrl
Throttle Mode:
  • Off
  • Throttle overrides PAS
  • Throttle enabled by PAS
Assist mode:
  • Full Spd
  • Proportional Spd
PasReqSpd:
0..99

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2013 9:11am

lollandster wrote:I might add that I personally wouldn't mind if the Trq+Thr mode worked like Trq Cntrl with just the PedRqdSpd added as long as throttle doesn't work without pedaling if I set PedRqdSpd=0. If that makes it easier to program. I imagine that combining those modes would save some programming lines. It would be like the speed limit option, you can't disable it, but you can set it to 99kph (or higher if you don't like the SI system or use high range).
Good to know - Thanks. I agree with the concern of added complexity of Trq+Thr but decided to throw it in as a request since it seemed a shame not to actually be able to legally exploit the main feature of a THUN unit - allowing proportional assist w/o throttle (without getting involved with mode changes to use the throttle a bit here and there in the ride).
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by NeilP » Feb 16 2013 11:18am

Regarding the THUN 10 volt feed

I have seen it stated that the 10volt feed can not be used with battery voltages over 48 volts.

Why is that ?
Does the 10v output shut down above. 48 volt or is it because 10 volt is obtained roughly by resistive network
What happens to the 10v output at battery input voltages above 48 volt? Is it not regulated?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 16 2013 12:20pm

NeilP wrote:Regarding the THUN 10 volt feed

I have seen it stated that the 10volt feed cannot be used with battery voltages over 48 volts.

Why is that ?
Does the 10v output shut down above. 48 volt or is it because 10 volt is obtained roughly by resistive network
What happens to the 10v output at battery input voltages above 48 volt? Is it not regulated?
EDIT - based on some feedback from Justin on a related matter:

The 10v supply is the primary regulated supply and the output is always present regardless of battery voltage. The currently published specification was simplified a bit and presented only in the context of THUN requirements. The max current limitations on both 5v and 10v supplies reflect linear regulator de-rating to accommodate higher (wasted) power dissipation at higher voltages to address the larger voltage drop, Vin to Vout.

More details will appear in the next update of the Advanced Features section of the Unofficial Guide including a means to calculate the actual available current at different battery voltages. The next Guide update should be shortly after the B22 release to reflect the new features.
Last edited by teklektik on Feb 17 2013 11:20am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hillzofvalp » Feb 16 2013 11:05pm

I am using a microcontroller to sample the throttle before it hits the CA for current throttle mapping. Essentially an event is supposed to happen at the micro controller from 1V to full throttle (4.14V). However, my micro controller is shutting the event off when it hits the ITermMax set to 3.25V in the CA (meaning that it is reverting to some value below 1V, however the voltmeter does not show this). Why is this?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2013 9:13am

NeilP wrote:Regarding the THUN 10 volt feed
I have seen it stated that the 10volt feed can not be used with battery voltages over 48 volts.
Why is that ?
Please see the previous posted reponse (above) which has been updated.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by bikenuts » Feb 17 2013 12:05pm

Hey Endless-Sphere community. Great forum. Love it very much. :D

I have a request which should be already on the list because I recently made the same suggestion in an e-mail exchange with Justin. I think a little bump won't hurt and I'm interested to see if it would be appreciated by others too.

I'm talking about an addition to the three setup presets. At the moment you can toggle between them by holding the left button and klicking the other one or use the setup menu to activate them. Whichever preset is selected stays selected until manual change, right?

Nice would be something like this: "default preset after restart: 1,2,3,last active". If you select: "default preset: 2" everytime you start up your bike preset nr. 2 will be loaded no matter what preset was loaded before the power cycle. If "last active" is selected you'll need to change it manually.

What do you think?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Feb 17 2013 12:22pm

yes. this was suggested in this thread already, and is my NUMBER ONE wish :)
so: +1

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by NeilP » Feb 17 2013 12:30pm

Yes, I can see an advantage in that if the firmware is not too far advanced to add it in it would be handy for some agreed.

My thoughts for asking about the 10 volt issue is this.
I would like a THUN sensor for a PAS system on my 134 volt setup. But having to fit another box ( DC-DC converter for 10 volts) plus the extra associated extra wiring is jsut a right pain.
Since it seems that it is possible to use the 10 volt rail, but at much diminished current (when run at higher voltage levels) I was wondering if this 10V output could be used as a reference voltage some how to drive a higher current 10 volt reg unit that could be built in to or added on to the current CA case. I have vague recollections from electronic lessons many years ago that any high current source at a fixed voltage starts with a signal 'reference' voltage and this is then used to drive the high current side, ..pair of FETs transistors etc . Seem to remember doings something similar years ago with 2N3055's on the output side of a variable voltage PSU I built yeaars ago
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2013 1:29pm

NeilP wrote:I would like a THUN sensor for a PAS system on my 134 volt setup. But having to fit another box ( DC-DC converter for 10 volts) plus the extra associated extra wiring is just a right pain.
I was wondering if this 10V output could be used as a reference voltage some how to drive a higher current 10 volt reg unit that could be built in to or added on to the current CA case.
Yes, you could likely do this depending on the external power stage design. Typically there is negligible current draw for reference voltages, but at 134v you only have 2ma total (5v and 10v) current available - not even enough to run a hall throttle... (typically 5ma) so you will need to steal some 5v from the controller just to run your throttle (unless you have a Magura which only needs 1ma).

But - I think you might find the best solution is to use a 15v or 19v netbook supply to run the entire CA. This will give you lots of both 5v and 10v.
  • Here is a little 15v supply that could power the CA as well as some extra '12v' automotive accessories (LED lights, GPS, etc).
  • Here is a little 19v supply that would be my choice for not running 12v accessories - a little extra regulator headroom on the CA (which has a minimum voltage rating of 12v). This one appears smaller that the 15v unit above.
These are cheap and waterproof. Just tie V(-) from the supply output to Vbatt(-) on the supply input to defeat the isolation and you should be good to go. Wire the CA for 'high voltage' operation to monitor the 134v while running the CA on the lower voltage. See the Advanced Features PDF of the Unofficial Guide for wiring details. These supplies are small and you can snug it up out of the way near your controller so there is nothing up on the handlebars.

Using laptop supplies as DC/DC converters has been discussed before on ES and is a proven strategy. With a rated max input voltage of 240v, they make a nice little package for this kind of higher voltage ebike application. I have not tested the specific units above, but there should be no problem. The usual issue is how low the input voltage can be and still operate reliably but you are well above the specified 90v minimum. I recently tried out a little 12v unit for Thun power and it ran at only 42v even though it was rated 90-240v.
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NeilP   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by NeilP » Feb 17 2013 2:29pm

teklektik wrote: Typically there is negligible current draw for reference voltages, but at 134v you only have 2ma total (5v and 10v) current available - not even enough to run a hall throttle... (typically 5ma) so you will need to steal some 5v from the controller just to run your throttle (unless you have a Magura which only needs 1ma).
Oh shit. How would I do that? Can I just connect the 5 volt from the controller direct to the throttle input then? and output the hall throttle output direct to the CA.
Bit of a let down. is there any thoughts to improve the 5v output in later versions of the CA? If so I may just pass on his version, leave it in the parts bin or sell it on and wait
teklektik wrote:But - I think you might find the best solution is to use a 15v or 19v netbook supply to run the entire CA. This will give you lots of both 5v and 10v.
I do already use one to power my lights, on the other bike, so was hoping to avoid having to add one to this bike. Now it looks like I will have to add two if I wanted to use the V3. This is on a full sus bike with only a small frame triangle..bad enough trying to fit the battery pack in the frame and controller on a rack on a seat post rack. I had hoped to drive the lights from the aux CA power output too, as well as throttle and THUN crank..Luckily I have not bought the THUN yet.
I do have a spare DP CA V2.23..so looks very much like I will have to use that for now, and maybe wait for a V4 CA with more potent outputs. Even forgetting running the lights from it, if I coudl at least run both throttle and THUN sensor from it that would be great.

Thanks for the warning regarding the 5 volt not being enough to even power the throttle. Guess I'll stick to the V2 for now.

Anyone in the UK want to buy a V3 CA?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by NeilP » Feb 17 2013 3:08pm

Or what about 84 volt..(20s LiPo) will it (the v3) run stuff at 5volts at 84 in ?

If the throttle mapping/ THUN etc was as i hoped on the 32s bikt (134 volts) I was going to get another for the 20S 5304

Maybe there is a way to modify the v3 to give better outputs of the 5 and 10 volt lines at thes sort fo voltages..Not talking of many hundreds of volts..just so it was more usable at the sort of pack voltages that many of us seem to run...which from what I read seems to be around the 18 to 24 s region.

maybe the voltage regulator can be changed for something that gives higher outputs..maybe just fit it with a heatsink? ..move it off the board ?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Feb 17 2013 3:09pm

NeilP wrote:
teklektik wrote:... but at 134v you only have 2ma total (5v and 10v) current available - not even enough to run a hall throttle... (typically 5ma) so you will need to steal some 5v from the controller just to run your throttle (unless you have a Magura which only needs 1ma).
How would I do that? Can I just connect the 5 volt from the controller direct to the throttle input then? and output the hall throttle output direct to the CA.
Exactly. Pretty painless. You are good to run a hall throttle up to 100v, but you're a bit over the line....
NP wrote:is there any thoughts to improve the 5v output in later versions of the CA?
I cannot speak for Justin, but he has mentioned the desire for a more robust power supply setup on future units. This would be a 'futures' item in any case - the 3.0 hardware is pretty much cast in stone.
NP wrote:
teklektik wrote:But - I think you might find the best solution is to use a 15v or 19v netbook supply to run the entire CA.
I do already use one to power my lights, on the other bike, so was hoping to avoid having to add one to this bike. Now it looks like I will have to add two if I wanted to use the V3. ...I had hoped to drive the lights from the aux CA power output too,...
Not really. A single 14v-15v unit will do nicely for both purposes. Remember '12v' in automotive talk really doesn't mean 12v. 15v is in the allowable range. The Aux Port is unaffected by any of this - it's limited to 1A at Vbatt (134v in your case).

As noted above, a Magura throttle is fine at 134v where you have 2ma capacity available (5v/5K = 1ma). You could also consider a simpler PAS sensor that could be powered from the controller if it's hall (5ma/10ma if it has one/two halls) or from the CA if it's reed (1ma). Not a THUN but you could get some fixed assist...

Sorry to have been the bearer of bad news...
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