Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Kepler » Apr 03 2013 6:54pm

teklektik wrote:
Kepler wrote:One other problem I am experiencing with the torque sensing setup is that the bike tends to surge when pedalling from a dead stop. It then settles down after a few surge cycles.
Justin is certainly the man with the proper answer on this one, but meanwhile, I would hazard a guess that this might be addressed by reducing PLim->WGain in the same manner as tuning out overshoot for a Power Throttle configuration (i.e. ThrI->CntrlMode=Power). If you examine the Limit Flags on the diagnostic screen, the 'W' flag is always asserted which indicates that that WGain is in play. Under the covers the Watts-based PAS torque parameters are operating by power limiting so reducing the gain a bit should reduce the overshoot at the cost of a slightly slower response.

I don't have the means to verify this strategy so this is just winging it, but it might be worth a try.... :D
Good call :) lowered the gain progressively down and tested. I now have it all the way down to 5. Much smoother on takeoff now. Assist feels a lot more natural and progressive now 8)
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 03 2013 7:29pm

Kepler wrote: Much smoother on takeoff now. Assist feels a lot more natural and progressive now 8)
Excellent news! Thanks for the update - another factoid for the PAS section of the guide :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Apr 04 2013 2:02pm

Diamondback wrote:Actually there IS an off the shelf plug and play option.
I bought the ezee pas dial from Justin.
This will plug straight Into the CA, and will allow adjustment of pas level.
It works very well. Just have to remember to calibrate the knob as its not a full 0-5v sweep.

Jason.
w0t w0t w0t? :P
where can i get this "unlisted part"? :P

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by bajajoe » Apr 04 2013 4:57pm

Thanks Teklektic for the images and description of an external thumb throttle control for the pas/thun assist system.
At this time, however I would like to get in line for the "ezee pas dial" which Diamondback obtained from Justin which plugs directly into the CA.
Hope it is made available sometime soon as anyone using a proportional assist setup will likely want one.
Also for Justin, really happy to hear an option for the number of sensor poles (8 vs 16) which maintains correct information for HWa output and cadence will be available in a CA3 update.
Cheers
Steve

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Re: Cruise control locking issues

Post by mrbill » Apr 04 2013 5:32pm

mrbill wrote:Did you make any changes to the cruise control locking behavior in connection with your testing with a thumb throttle?

I still have a hard time getting it to lock at 3 seconds and 0.15 volts. Hit and miss. Sometimes it locks the first time, but others I get the flashing box on the slider, only to have the lock fail when I release the throttle.
I wrote the above while I was still using Beta23. With the V3.0_Prelim release I have an easier time getting the cruise to lock with a thumb throttle. It seems like a little more variation in the throttle voltage is allowed (about half the threshold voltage) after the "In" begins to flash but before the throttle voltage declines monotonically to zero (the user releases the throttle and allows the spring to reset the control to zero). Before, if the "In" flashed, and the throttle voltage increased even 0.01v, the cruise lock would break. But, once the throttle voltage declines below the threshold voltage, even an 0.01v increase in throttle voltage will break the cruise lock.

Thanks for fixing this!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by mrbill » Apr 04 2013 5:37pm

Hi Justin:

Is Rbatt an instantaneous (or near-instantaneous) measure of current internal resistance, or do you use a trailing average of measurements taken over some fixed time, or since the last Trip Reset?

Thanks.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 04 2013 6:27pm

mrbill wrote:Hi Justin:
Is Rbatt an instantaneous (or near-instantaneous) measure of current internal resistance, or do you use a trailing average of measurements taken over some fixed time, or since the last Trip Reset?
Thanks.
It updates itself whenever there has been a significant change in the current draw from which it can look at the corresponding change in pack voltage and estimate the internal resistance, and those updates are in turn averaged out somewhat. So if you throttle and release and throttle a few times in a row you will have a pretty good representation of the current RBatt value.
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Diamondback   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Apr 04 2013 6:28pm

Merlin wrote:
Diamondback wrote:Actually there IS an off the shelf plug and play option.
I bought the ezee pas dial from Justin.
This will plug straight Into the CA, and will allow adjustment of pas level.
It works very well. Just have to remember to calibrate the knob as its not a full 0-5v sweep.

Jason.
w0t w0t w0t? :P
where can i get this "unlisted part"? :P
Just shoot Justin an email asking for the ezee pas dial.
From memory, it was around $20. It comes ready to install complete with bracket and wiring with a CA compatible plug.

Once you get the dial, you need to set the min and max in the CA.
The ezee dial is about a 1-4v sweep. Not the full 0-5v.

Let us know how you go ?

Jason
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 04 2013 7:37pm

Diamondback wrote:Once you get the dial, you need to set the min and max in the CA.
The ezee dial is about a 1-4v sweep. Not the full 0-5v.
Use the same strategy as setting the Throttle min/max - rotate the dial to min/max and just read the live min/max voltages from the Aux Pot Setup Preview screen.
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Diamondback   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Apr 05 2013 3:58am

i will go ant take a picture of the knob on my trike and post it shorty :)

edit.....

Image

Image

Image

Image

Jason
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by bio » Apr 06 2013 3:34pm

Is it now possible to connect a unmodified 3way switch directly to the CAv3 as a preset switch?
Last edited by bio on Apr 07 2013 3:33am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Kepler » Apr 06 2013 4:14pm

No, you need to need to add a voltage divider circuit to the 3 way switch. Quite easy to do and all documented in the user guides.

The CA need to see a 0v to 5V input, not just on off.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 06 2013 4:20pm

Kepler wrote: The CA need to see a 0v to 5V input, not just on off.
Actually, if you just want to switch between two mode presets then a simple on/off switch will work, as there is an internal pull-up on the auxilliary input that will bring it up to 5V when left open. Then if there is a switch to ground will bring it to 0V. But to go between 3 modes then you will need resistors to make an analog voltage in the mid-point.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by bio » Apr 07 2013 3:45am

Ok i have choosen to use simple two preset switch.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 07 2013 9:17am

bio wrote:Is it now possible to connect a unmodified 3way switch directly to the CAv3 as a preset switch?
bio wrote:Ok i have chosen to use simple two preset switch.
If you going with a preset switch, matters are somewhat simpler than the classic 3-position switch that itself has dividers to set the specific levels for the various positions. A 3-position preset switch can be implemented using an unmodified 3-position ebike switch and adding two fixed resistors to the connector or to the wiring before the connector. Very simple and no need to mount any components - just sleeve the parts in heat shrink. If you wish, you can pick up the 4.7K resistors at Radio Shack (5-pack = pn: 271-1330).

Wiring for the classic 3-position switch and well as for two and three position preset switches is described in the Unofficial Guide - see page 21.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rscamp » Apr 07 2013 4:11pm

The weather is finally cooperating and I was able to spend some 'quality time' with the V3.0 CA equipped R/C V4 drive trike. I am having a blast so far and most things work really well.

However...

Riding the way I am used to riding has uncovered something that is both an annoyance and something that could cause damage to the speed control. When coming to a stop, it takes a while for the CA to register zero speed. So for what seems an eternity but is actually only 2-3 seconds, throttle can be applied from a dead stop. This is unexpected behaviour and is to be avoided with this "pedal first" control. I would imagine the delay is by design so it smooths out having a long period of time between reed switch closures on the speedometer pickup. But with a smaller wheel (20") and three magnets on the wheel as in my case, it need not have such a long time constant.

Is it possible to change this or include some sort of adjustment to make the speedo more responsive?
Rob
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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Apr 08 2013 8:17am

Two Bugs in Beta23/Prelim:
Context: This is using the CAv3 with an RC setup. Testing has been very limited. I have two bikes and can test on the other - but wanted to get the initial word out there immediately.

Bug 1: With calibration [range=Hi], I could only ride maybe a minute then the CAv3 would display an error message and stop operating. A quick press to the right button restarted the CA, and I was riding again. This happened like 3 times in rapid succession. Since this was a commute, not a 'round the block checkride', I had to do something.
* Suspecting it was this setting, I switched to calibration [range=Lo],
* This changed the RShunt to 10.000mOhm, which I manually set to 1.000mOhm.
* This made the CAv3 work fine the rest of the ~20 minute commute.

Bug 2: I could not set Throttle up ramp below 0.05 Sec/Vlt. Any attempt to do so, when I locked in the values it re-set to 0.05 Sec/Vlt.
Why this is important: With earlier firmwares, the up ramp value was 0-999. I fould that with the RC setup and lightweight bike, any value over 10 was indistinguisable from 999. Any value ofer 4 was far too fast of a ramp-up. So my default mode was UpRamp of 2, and my "scary/fun mode" was a 3. The Beta 23 setting of 0.05 Sec/Vlt feels like about a 4 on the old scale of 0-999, so I definitely need the granularity of lower settings down to 0.01 Sec/Vlt.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Apr 08 2013 8:22am

MattyCiii wrote: Bug 2: I could not set Throttle up ramp below 0.05 Sec/Vlt. Any attempt to do so, when I locked in the values it re-set to 0.05 Sec/Vlt.
Why this is important: With earlier firmwares, the up ramp value was 0-999. I fould that with the RC setup and lightweight bike, any value over 10 was indistinguisable from 999. Any value ofer 4 was far too fast of a ramp-up. So my default mode was UpRamp of 2, and my "scary/fun mode" was a 3. The Beta 23 setting of 0.05 Sec/Vlt feels like about a 4 on the old scale of 0-999, so I definitely need the granularity of lower settings down to 0.01 Sec/Vlt.
I confirm bug 2, although I think it may be just a too limited implementation of a feature. I also was looking for faster ramp up, and was not able to get anything faster than 0.05 sec/Vlt. Running B22.
Henk


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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Apr 08 2013 9:13am

hjns wrote:
MattyCiii wrote: Bug 2: I could not set Throttle up ramp below 0.05 Sec/Vlt. Any attempt to do so, when I locked in the values it re-set to 0.05 Sec/Vlt.
Why this is important: With earlier firmwares, the up ramp value was 0-999. I fould that with the RC setup and lightweight bike, any value over 10 was indistinguisable from 999. Any value ofer 4 was far too fast of a ramp-up. So my default mode was UpRamp of 2, and my "scary/fun mode" was a 3. The Beta 23 setting of 0.05 Sec/Vlt feels like about a 4 on the old scale of 0-999, so I definitely need the granularity of lower settings down to 0.01 Sec/Vlt.
I confirm bug 2, although I think it may be just a too limited implementation of a feature. I also was looking for faster ramp up, and was not able to get anything faster than 0.05 sec/Vlt. Running B22.
Heheeee... Looks like what I personally need out of this setting is larger numbers not smaller. :oops:
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 08 2013 10:17am

MattyCiii wrote:Bug 1: With calibration [range=Hi], I could only ride maybe a minute then the CAv3 would display an error message and stop operating.
There was a display/lockup situation found in B23 which was traced to the equivalent of an assert - a debug code snippet to verify a condition - and the condition was failing. The exact details of the error display allowed a pretty quick identification and resolution.

If you can reproduce the error and email the display text to Justin (info@ebikes.ca) it would be helpful. Hopefully it's the same issue and has already been addressed, but if not, it will help get new analysis underway.
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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Apr 08 2013 6:25pm

Looks like the error was:

PC02117 U100000
T_Err U200000


Also regarding Bug #2, I cannot set the Throttle up ramp above 5.00 Sec/Vlt. Same pattern - values above 5.00 reset to 5.00 once the value is "set"
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 08 2013 7:45pm

MattyCiii wrote:Looks like the error was:

PC02117 U100000
T_Err U200000
Thanks for the bug report and getting back with the details. Very helpful!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 09 2013 3:36am

MattyCiii wrote:Looks like the error was:
PC02117 U100000
T_Err U200000
Hey Matty, this is indeed the same thing source as what Teklektic had found. WIth all the additional processing and functions going on, the B23/CA3Prelim code could with just the right circumstances take a bit too long to execute the main code routine (theoretically every 18.1818mS) and I had it cause this screen to show if that occurred. If you press the right button it will resume operation again. The cause has been understood and fixed.
Also regarding Bug #2, I cannot set the Throttle up ramp above 5.00 Sec/Vlt. Same pattern - values above 5.00 reset to 5.00 once the value is "set"
This is not a bug but a deliberate clamp on slow of a ramp rate can be programmed. Actually the reason for the clamp is that the stored data overflows at about 6.5 sec/V, but 5V/sec seemed iike a more natural ceiling to limit things to. 5 sec/volt is about 15 seconds to ramp from zero to full throttle, which I though would be longer than anyone would typically want.

At the faster end, there are also overflow issues but I think I can make it down to 0.03 sec/V for a really fast ramping.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
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MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Apr 09 2013 10:01am

justin_le wrote:
MattyCiii wrote: Also regarding Bug #2, I cannot set the Throttle up ramp above 5.00 Sec/Vlt. Same pattern - values above 5.00 reset to 5.00 once the value is "set"
This is not a bug but a deliberate clamp on slow of a ramp rate can be programmed. Actually the reason for the clamp is that the stored data overflows at about 6.5 sec/V, but 5V/sec seemed iike a more natural ceiling to limit things to. 5 sec/volt is about 15 seconds to ramp from zero to full throttle, which I though would be longer than anyone would typically want.

At the faster end, there are also overflow issues but I think I can make it down to 0.03 sec/V for a really fast ramping.

-Justin
THANKS Justin.
Only my two cents, and I realize "RC Drive" users overall are a minority of CAv3 users, but a range from 5.00 to 0.05 Sec/Vlt is about 1/10th the range of values allowed by the old, unitless setting of 0-999. While that in itself is meaningless, riding yesterday afternoon and this morning at 5.00 Sec/Vlt was at the edge of my comfort zone. Is there any to get a little more top end out of that range of settings? Concurrently, I would not ask for more top end range of this setting at the cost of low end, as hjns already ran out of room at the bottom end.

For myself, I'm planning to give current limiting another try, but again with the powerful, high RPM RC drive it's a little tricky to set the limits up for good performance (that of course being a a problem of mine - limited know how and initiatiave, not any limit of the CAv3 system).


I'm
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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