Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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izeman   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 23 2014 2:20pm

ah ok. i see. so even though both wires end up at the same solder pad, one is for the CA supply and other stuff, as where the S- wire is zero current and only for amp reading. that makes sense. i didn't think about it. maybe just because the CA plug of one of my controllers was wired that way. only 5 wires coming from the connector to the board. and pin2 and 3 were bridged.

i did share GND for thermistor in another project and didn't see any negative effekt. maybe because an off-reading of some tenth a degree won't be noticed. i will see to order some 8 or 10 wire cable and use that.

what awg is the wire? i guess awg26 is good (thick) enough. it's hard to guess and i don't want to open insulation to see if there are some readings on the wire itself. only problem with these super thin wires is crimping. they tend to slip out very easily if there is almost no material to grab.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 23 2014 3:24pm

izeman wrote:i didn't think about it. maybe just because the CA plug of one of my controllers was wired that way.
Ya - but the wires there are very short compared to the longer run to the CA and the wire gauge is larger than that of the CA cable (reduced resistance).
izeman wrote:what awg is the wire? i guess awg26 is good (thick) enough.
Yep - 26 gauge is fine. As with many electronic wire runs on vehicles, the gauge is chosen to ensure mechanical robustness, not minimum electrical requirements. Particularly in this case with a multi-conductor cable, the overall cable will be quite rugged using 26 ga, and as you point out, crimping may become an important considerations as well as the resistance to fatigue from flex at the connector itself (not an issue if cable-sheath-and-connector are bound together with large heatshrink so the exposed individual wires cannot experience flex).

I have to say that I am a fan of the braided plastic sheathing. Beyond the stealth black, it comes in other colors that can make it less obtrusive on colored frames. As an example, here's a link to a CPU over-clocker store that has a good selection. I'm fortunate to have a local electronics store where I can just walk in and buy this stuff by the foot.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Animalector » Mar 23 2014 4:25pm

Just FYI on the sharing of a common for the thermistor. I did this in my hub and difference in temperature reading when running and when stationary is pretty high it varies but can be up to 20 degrees. I'm going to get back in there and allocate a dedicated ground wire .
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Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by dingrels » Mar 23 2014 6:41pm

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Gab » Mar 27 2014 6:54am

Hi I have a brandnew Ca v3 with external shunt and external speed sensor.

I hooked up the shunt, and wheel speed sensor and nothing else, i left everything else unplugged. When i turn it on all works ok.

When i turn the wheel i get correct wheel speed, when i turn the throttle slowly it shows correct current.

But the problem is when i put full power the cycle analyst screen resets ? the bike powers on ok but the CA cuts out and then restarts until i do full power again ? what could this be ?

The throttle is not hooked up to the analyst, i'm running 36v and i tried another battery and same thing ? what could it be ?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by NeilP » Mar 27 2014 7:54am

Maybe you have the CA low voltage shut off high, and voltage sag is dropping voltage below this cut off point
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Gab » Mar 27 2014 3:35pm

Maybe you have the CA low voltage shut off high, and voltage sag is dropping voltage below this cut off point
I set the CA low voltage cutout to 5v and it made no difference ?

Could it be their is something wrong with the shunt where the CA gets its power from ?

Or could it be interference from something that causes the CA to crash and restart from the home screen ?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gnongris » Mar 27 2014 4:23pm

I want to report a bug that could be dangerous and i have not find a solution but i have send the same message to Justin.

For beginning my configuration is:
1) VTT with Ezee V3 geared motor (30A 1500W), 56V lipo (14s), accelerator and TDCM torque PAS.
2) The Aux Pot is used with 5k potentiometer for controlling the power "PAS LEVEL" (CA programmation are in attachement).
3) The Throttle is connected to CA.


How to reproduce the problem

1) Ride the bicycle by pedaling with the TDCM Torque at a quicly speed. it is necessary to obtain a important throttle tension (3.5 V for example)
2) suddenly stop or reduce the speed a lot with the brake. Throttle tension fall down to "Thro Brake Out" (0.85V)
3) when you are at a very low speed start to pedal and release the brake. Or release the brake (throttle tension = "Thro Min Out"= 0.9V) and imediatly pedal.

4) THE THROTTLE SIGNAL SENDED TO CONTROLLER IS THE VALUE OF POINT 1 BEFORE THE BRAKE IS PRESSED AND REDUCE QUICLY TO THE GOOD VALUE. :!:

So you have a BIG OVERSHOOT (with a 1500W geared motor) during a small time. But it is enought, when you pull a U-turn, to go to the ditch (already 2 times) :twisted: . So it is impossible to used the TDCM like that witch VTT. It is boring. And this overshoot is separate of the position of the potentiometer but it is dependent of "Trq Asst Factor".

The solution is when i presse the Brake the out throttle signal start again at "Thro Brake Out" but that need a modification on the software. So i ma waiting a solution for Justin. :cry:

Sorry for my english i am French and it is not easy but i am trying to speak english.
Attachments
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Configuration Ezee 30A 1500W 56V
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Last edited by gnongris on Mar 29 2014 8:04am, edited 1 time in total.
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dingrels   1 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by dingrels » Mar 27 2014 10:12pm

gnongris wrote:I want to report a bug that could be dangerous and i have not find a solution but i have send the same message to Justin.
I installed the CA v3 with a Thun torque sensor on my bike a few weeks ago and initially had the same problem. My setup is much lower powered - a 40V/15A max setup (i.e. peak 600W) with a KU63 controller.

Here is the typical scenario where the behaviour is potentially hazardous... When pedaling at moderate to high power setting, I stop pedaling suddenly, brake and come to a stop because I am approaching pedestrians. After stopping for a while (it doesn't matter how long -- can even be a minute), I start off again pedaling very gently, mindful of the pedestrians and other obstacles in front of me. But the bike surges forward for a fraction of a second as though it was trying to resume the last power setting it was at when I stopped pedaling earlier. Then it settles down to the correct, low-power appropriate to pedaling effort I am now doing.

I don't know if this programmed behaviour is intentional. I can see where it is fine -- in the the scenario where you are pedaling at moderately high power and speed, the stop pedaling for a second or two, and then resume. The CA resumes power very quickly and this is desirable in this circumstance. But potentially hazardous in the scenario I described above.

I did 'fix' the problem by doing a combination of things:
1. Reducing the ThrO->UpRate to a very low value (0.5V/sec)
2. Disabled the Fast Uprate by setting ThrO->FastThrsh to 0.0Amps (or setting ThrO->FastRate the same as Thro->UpRate 0.5V/sec)
3. Increasing ThrO->DownRate to 6.0V/sec.
4. Increasing PAS->StrtThrsh and StopThrsh values 50% to 100% more than the default values from the recommended default values.

Making these changes will obviously reduce responsiveness when starting off. But it works much more safely for me for now.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gnongris » Mar 28 2014 6:47am

dingrels wrote:I did 'fix' the problem by doing a combination of things:
1. Reducing the ThrO->UpRate to a very low value (0.5V/sec)
Yes, it is a solution if you don't used accelerator. But if you have one the TrO->UpRate is applied for it and it is to smooth when you want power quicly.
dingrels wrote:2. Disabled the Fast Uprate by setting ThrO->FastThrsh to 0.0Amps (or setting ThrO->FastRate the same as Thro->UpRate 0.5V/sec)
Same that the point 1. When you need to used accelerator, for example at the end of descent it is necessary to go quicly at a throttle value where the motor begin to give power. So i prefer to quip ThrO->FastThrsh to 3 Amps and Thro->UpRate to 3.0V/sec
dingrels wrote:3. Increasing ThrO->DownRate to 6.0V/sec.
Yes is it a good solution i have put mine to 10V/sec.
dingrels wrote:4. Increasing PAS->StrtThrsh and StopThrsh values 50% to 100% more than the default values from the recommended default values.
Making these changes will obviously reduce responsiveness when starting off. But it works much more safely for me for now.
With this solution The start is to low in VTT conditions and the stop to Late and dangerous. But of course with yours values the start and stop are smoother and It is good for the road.

I have received a answer from Justin. He will modified this point in the next firware update. :D But we must be patient :cry:
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 28 2014 7:18am

i checked all 65 pages of the excellent manual, but couldn't find the answer to this question:

can a 3way switch be used to select different throttle ramps? let's say a really laggy one with maybe reduced high output for difficult off road manouvers where you need just a little power from a twist throttle, and a snappy one where you could just apply full power while bashing through the woods, and something in between?
or would this easier be done by doing current limiting?

i will have 2 settings already. one street legal, 600w and 25km/h and on open full power. so switching between the two of the would be no good idea. i need to change the throttle responsiveness in one of those presets while riding. obviously it will happen in the "full power" preset only, as the street legal mode will only be used when riding in the city.

any ideas? help?

thanks

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 28 2014 10:13am

izeman wrote:can a 3way switch be used to select different throttle ramps? let's say a really laggy one with maybe reduced high output for difficult off road manouvers where you need just a little power from a twist throttle, and a snappy one where you could just apply full power while bashing through the woods, and something in between?
or would this easier be done by doing current limiting?
Unfortunately, ramping cannot be controlled directly by AuxPot.

I'm guessing you are already using Current Throttle, which gives you more linear throttle control, so I actually think you may be looking for PLim->AGain control to have an overall effect instead of the clamping effect of Up/DownRate, but I guess it's really a rider preference.

The only thing you might try is arranging your 3-position switch to select 'presets' instead of 'limiting'. This would allow you to set different Up/DownRates in the presets and switch both power range and responsiveness on the fly. There can be a small delay when you switch presets this way, but this might do the job. You could then set the different MaxCurrent limits in different presets so your Current Throttle would still scale 0-100% rotation over the different current range in each preset.

If you can get the performance you need with the Rate adjustments, this will work. Unfortunately, though, the AGain and WGain settings are global, not-preset-specific, and so cannot be changed except by manual reconfiguration.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 28 2014 10:24am

Thanks teklektik. I don't want to use the 3 way switch to toggle presets. As the first one is the legal setting. In case I get stopped by the police I don't want a visible switch to enable full power mode. So maybe I can use the switch to cut the throttle voltage to let's say 30, 60, and 100%. This would be the same for all presets but would tame the throttle if needed?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 28 2014 10:27am

gnongris wrote:I want to report a bug that could be dangerous...
I have linked your post to the both the PAS and Bug sections of the post index on the download post.

Thanks for the post!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Mar 28 2014 10:37am

izeman wrote:Thanks teklektik. I don't want to use the 3 way switch to toggle presets. As the first one is the legal setting. In case I get stopped by the police I don't want a visible switch to enable full power mode. So maybe I can use the switch to cut the throttle voltage to let's say 30, 60, and 100%. This would be the same for all presets but would tame the throttle if needed?
Okay - I certainly see your point.

If you are running Current Throttle (ThrI->CntrlMode = Current), you could use the switch to change the current (eg 100%, 66% 33%) which should make things much more manageable. Since in this case the switch first scales PLim->MaxCurrent and then Current Throttle scales that result, you can try this out by just scaling back MaxCurrent to test if the switch will give you what you need. If it seems to do the job you can then install the switch to do it on the fly.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 29 2014 4:09am

teklektik wrote:
izeman wrote:Thanks teklektik. I don't want to use the 3 way switch to toggle presets. As the first one is the legal setting. In case I get stopped by the police I don't want a visible switch to enable full power mode. So maybe I can use the switch to cut the throttle voltage to let's say 30, 60, and 100%. This would be the same for all presets but would tame the throttle if needed?
Okay - I certainly see your point.

If you are running Current Throttle (ThrI->CntrlMode = Current), you could use the switch to change the current (eg 100%, 66% 33%) which should make things much more manageable. Since in this case the switch first scales PLim->MaxCurrent and then Current Throttle scales that result, you can try this out by just scaling back MaxCurrent to test if the switch will give you what you need. If it seems to do the job you can then install the switch to do it on the fly.
thanks. i'll give it a try. the bike is still in the welding process but i'm preparing the controller and electric stuff, so it may take some time to really see if this approach works.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 30 2014 3:53pm

now that i read about zombiess' throttle tamer: isn't that something that could be integrated into the CA? the CA is already controlling the throttle signal, why not add some throttle acceleration analysis and averaging?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Mar 30 2014 5:50pm

i think the same problem....no (additional) space....

I have an idea for saving space.....delete the Battery SOG infos and make just one option for all:

let the user input not AH or something....take WH ...
so it is not important what kind of accu youre using.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gnongris » Mar 31 2014 3:29am

Merlin wrote:i think the same problem....no (additional) space....

I have an idea for saving space.....delete the Battery SOG infos and make just one option for all:

let the user input not AH or something....take WH ...
so it is not important what kind of accu youre using.

One solution for saving space is i think to reduce the code of the menus by simplified CA menus. All the setup configuration could be made by pc and just keep on the CA the tuned parameters like PID, Power, tuned sensor etc ...
Last edited by gnongris on Mar 31 2014 5:09am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 31 2014 3:56am

i wish justin would show up again, and give us a short update. it's more then 9 MONTH now that pre6 was released. that's the time a BABY needs to be born. should be enough time to go from beta to release.
and maybe update the community if this is still a supported product ... or do i ask for too much???

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Mar 31 2014 7:11am

I think V3 is no longer beta. It works well enough for the full release that it is, and you can buy it online directly from their site. So I don't really understand what your point is.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Mar 31 2014 7:59am

hjns wrote:I think V3 is no longer beta. It works well enough for the full release that it is, and you can buy it online directly from their site. So I don't really understand what your point is.
no. even if a beta release works as good as a release, it's still beta, and afaik there has been no release yet (hence the subject of this thread). and you can't deny that there was no info from justin about development for a very long time, and there are still some things justin was thinking about to be added. and that's what i'm asking.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by alsmith » Mar 31 2014 8:26pm

izeman wrote:
hjns wrote:I think V3 is no longer beta. It works well enough for the full release that it is, and you can buy it online directly from their site. So I don't really understand what your point is.
no. even if a beta release works as good as a release, it's still beta, and afaik there has been no release yet (hence the subject of this thread). and you can't deny that there was no info from justin about development for a very long time, and there are still some things justin was thinking about to be added. and that's what i'm asking.
Beta is only beta because grin say that, if they change the name to V1 suddenly it is different? For this product it is as much because it is so configurable- it is many different user solutions in one highly configurable and adjustable package. If Grin reduced that vast number of possibilities it could be considered by many to not be beta for so long- but couldn't be the product they've supplied. It is only Justin's opinions, plans and such that has kept the label- or he is more occupied with developments to be bothered about a label?
For something like this after its life so far what difference does that label really make? Whatever the label you know support will *always* be excellent.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by vptech » Mar 31 2014 10:53pm

The current firmware release is a preliminary (no longer beta!) version of the CA3 code. This will work fine for any devices currently programmed with Beta16 or later firmware. If you have a way old unit with Beta15, then you will first need to use the “CalOverwrite” firmware option.
This cut and paste is from Grin Product Info page on Cycle Analyst V3

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Apr 01 2014 1:49am

i have no idea why you try to convince me that even if it says pre6 it's a release. however i really don't care if it's beta or not. that's not the point. my main question was, if this product is still in development, and if justin has been seen lately and probably may comment.
if you read the thread there are still things than can/could be implemented, and justin commented on those requests some long time ago, but hasn't been seen for 9 month now.
so why shouldn't i ask if this is ever gonna happen again?

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