Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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zener   1 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by zener » Apr 08 2014 9:06am

Arlo1 wrote:
shorza wrote:I know it's been mentioned here before but my CA turns on and lights up while the bike is moving when I don't have a battery connected.

Can this damage the CA/controller?
You have it powered from the power inside the controller? The wheel is working as a generator to charge up the caps inside the controller but you will need to generate above 150v dc to hurt the CA how fast is your unloaded wheel speed when powered from the battery? And what is your fully charged voltage? And how fast are you able to peddle the bike with no assist?

If you look at those numbers or post them we can work the math to show you why its no problem. :)
If you riding a steep huge hill down. These numbers can be pretty high i guess :D

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 08 2014 9:19am

zener wrote:
Arlo1 wrote:
shorza wrote:I know it's been mentioned here before but my CA turns on and lights up while the bike is moving when I don't have a battery connected.

Can this damage the CA/controller?
You have it powered from the power inside the controller? The wheel is working as a generator to charge up the caps inside the controller but you will need to generate above 150v dc to hurt the CA how fast is your unloaded wheel speed when powered from the battery? And what is your fully charged voltage? And how fast are you able to peddle the bike with no assist?

If you look at those numbers or post them we can work the math to show you why its no problem. :)
If you riding a steep huge hill down. These numbers can be pretty high i guess :D
LOL yeah.... VERY steep..... I went down the steepest hill I could find full throttle and hi 100km/h which was the same as unloaded. With a 100v pack so I still had about a 50v buffer.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
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zener   1 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by zener » Apr 08 2014 9:25am

Arlo1 wrote:
zener wrote:
Arlo1 wrote: You have it powered from the power inside the controller? The wheel is working as a generator to charge up the caps inside the controller but you will need to generate above 150v dc to hurt the CA how fast is your unloaded wheel speed when powered from the battery? And what is your fully charged voltage? And how fast are you able to peddle the bike with no assist?

If you look at those numbers or post them we can work the math to show you why its no problem. :)
If you riding a steep huge hill down. These numbers can be pretty high i guess :D
LOL yeah.... VERY steep..... I went down the steepest hill I could find full throttle and hi 100km/h which was the same as unloaded. With a 100v pack so I still had about a 50v buffer.
There are always steeper hills. What if someone have some special hub motor (super low or high KV (i dont know whats make more voltage generating))and a 150V controller with a 32s lixx battery?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Arlo1 » Apr 08 2014 11:48am

If you are running 150v or the chance of hitting it then you need to set up the CA for high voltage with the voltage divider trick in the CA manual.
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by icecube57 » Apr 08 2014 2:12pm

Is there a way to soften the jolt of PAS reengaging after a brief stop.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rowbiker » Apr 08 2014 5:32pm

I have a CA3 on a 48V system with a Crystalyte direct drive motor, and I once used human power to turn the wheel/motor while the (Lyen) controller and battery were NOT powered ON, and the CA3 lit up and got many of its settings scrambled. There was no permanent damage that i could find, but I don't do that anymore. It might have just been a fluke, and now that Justin has provided a computer program to help restore the CA3 settings, I might try it again. With my HT35 motor, I can hit 70VDC open circuit output fairly easily, measured behind a 3 phase bridge ("tridge") rectifier. This is with the "bike" in a trainer type stand.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 08 2014 8:17pm

rowbiker wrote:I have a CA3 on a 48V system with a Crystalyte direct drive motor, and I once used human power to turn the wheel/motor while the (Lyen) controller and battery were NOT powered ON, and the CA3 lit up and got many of its settings scrambled.
I'll need to look into this. We had another customer with a stokemonkey who suddenly had some of the CA settings get mixed up on 2 different occasions which was really puzzling. Then it turned out that his kid was sometimes having fun with the parked bike spinning the cranks backwards, which would spin the stokemonkey motor and power up the CA right around its threshold on/off voltage. But the CA eeprom writing firmwrae is supposed to be robust against this from changing any settings so that needs to be checked out and sorted.

In the meantime, if you set the "VShutdown" voltage to something much higher than the 11V default value, then almost for sure it would be fine when getting intermittent power via the motor's back-emf voltage. I think at 11V the onboard caps don't quite have enough energy to always resave the full data to memory before the chip shuts off and that leads to corruption.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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And a Linux version

Post by justin_le » Apr 08 2014 8:28pm

There hasn't exactly been a huge demand for this, but we do have a version of the CA3 setup utility for Linux if anyone cares:

http://www.ebikes.ca/documents/CASetupU ... -1.0.4.tgz

We'll try to get an Apple version built for once we can find someone to loan us a macbook for testing and debugging.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by John in CR » Apr 08 2014 8:47pm

Regarding the remaining capacity gauge, I'd like to have a user defined full and empty voltage isn't of monkeying with battery type and capacity to get the conservative gauge that I want.

I'm sorry but I lack the patience to go thru 80 odd pages. Is there a solution to the issue of not coming on when powering up at higher voltages. My fresh off the charger voltage is 124V, and while the CA3 almost always comes on the first time I turn the bike on, after being in the sun while out on errands about half the time 1 or more cycles of off/on with the key is required for the CA to come on. It's not just the display not lighting, because if I take off with the CA not lit, the data from that segment isn't recorded.

Wheelie and/or traction control? I'll run dual CA3 if I can get traction control for the front of a 2wd bike...possibly even 4 CA3's, since each of my motors requires dual controllers. That's lots of CA3's to sell as I move into serious retail. :mrgreen:

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rowbiker » Apr 09 2014 8:08am

Thanks Justin. I will try the higher VShutdown setting, which I had left at its default value. Also thanks for the linux version of the CA setup program -- this means I can run the restore via the RaspberryPi which is already mounted on my testing stand!

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Apr 09 2014 11:49am

An updated version of the Unofficial User Guide is available for download here.

This update identifies the new CA3 Setup Utility in the feature listing and suggest its use in lieu of the earlier suggestion to use the Excel/PDF Setup Parameter forms as a means of recording configurations. There are no other material alterations.

As with the Firmware Updater, detailed instructions for use of the Setup Utility are a separate matter and are not addressed in the Guide.
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RC_guy   10 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by RC_guy » Apr 09 2014 8:44pm

Hey fellas,
Last time I tried the CA V3 was in December. I just ran some tests by hooking the green wire from the CA to the throttle input of the controller instead of directly to the 6 pin controller connector.
Now the motor does not turn? Is it possible that I need to re-program the CA since I did not power it up in 3+ months?

Thanks

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rowbiker » Apr 10 2014 12:45pm

Subject: Failure to run linux CASetupUtility under Ubuntu

The following shows my efforts at getting the linux version of the new CA3 "CASetupUtility" to run under the Ubuntu distro (Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS, common name "precise", kernel 3.2.0-60-generic-pae #91-Ubuntu). I made a new subdirectory under /data/erowbike for the downloaded compressed tar file from ES (CASetupUtility-linux-1.0.4.tgz, 6,976,662 bytes), and unpacked it in the new directory. As it does for the Windows version, it created its own subdirectory "CA Setup Utility", plus two additional subdirectories under that called "saved" and "data". It correctly sets the executable flag for the binary (CASetupUtility).

Code: Select all

/data/erowbike$ mkdir /data/erowbike/CA_linux
/data/erowbike/CA_linux/CA Setup Utility$                                                                                                                                                                 
drwxr-xr-x 2 hj hj     4096 Apr  5 20:26 saved/
drwxr-xr-x 2 hj hj     4096 Apr  5 20:27 data/
-rwxr-xr-x 1 hj hj 16070086 Apr  5 21:35 CASetupUtility*    <-- the binary executable file 
Running the binary resulted in the following failure to find a shared library file "libxkbcommon.so.0":

Code: Select all

/data/erowbike/CA_linux/CA Setup Utility$ ./CASetupUtility 
./CASetupUtility: error while loading shared libraries: libxkbcommon.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
A search of my system showed that the only name-related file(s) installed were "libxkbfile.so.*".

Code: Select all

hj@gigi:/data/erowbike/CA_linux/CA Setup Utility$ locate libxkb
/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libxkbfile.so.1
/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libxkbfile.so.1.0.2
/usr/share/doc/libxkbfile1
/usr/share/doc/libxkbfile1/changelog.Debian.gz
/usr/share/doc/libxkbfile1/copyright
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libxkbfile1:i386.list
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libxkbfile1:i386.md5sums
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libxkbfile1:i386.postinst
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libxkbfile1:i386.postrm
/var/lib/dpkg/info/libxkbfile1:i386.shlibs
I then installed the "libxkbcommon0" package, a shared library interface to the XKB compiler, and re-ran the "CASetupUtility" binary. It could now find the object file, but complains about an "undefined symbol". Just to be thorough, I installed all remaining (three) additional "libxkb*" packages (all designed for developers and debugging) and none fixed the 'undefined symbol' error.

Code: Select all

hj@gigi:/data/erowbike/CA_linux/CA Setup Utility$ ./CASetupUtility 
./CASetupUtility: symbol lookup error: ./CASetupUtility: undefined symbol: xkb_context_new
I'm guessing that the linux version of CASetupUtility was probably developed/compiled/tested on a non debian/ubuntu type distribution, so this error didn't occur. In my younger years I would grab the source code and compile it on my system to avoid such errors, but I'm guessing this isn't 'open source' software, so that's probably not an option. I do have the alternative of running the Windows version, so I'm not dead in the water, but I'd prefer running the linux version, all other things being equal. I know Justin said there wasn't a "lot" of demand for this, so I don't expect this to be a high priority for anyone.

But, helpful advice would be appreciated, and I'm willing to work towards obtaining a mutually useful outcome. ...hj

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by parabellum » Apr 10 2014 8:20pm

+1 No luck running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS :)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by pendragon8000 » Apr 11 2014 8:13pm

hey guys im going to update both my bikes ca v3's today .

I intend to use "CA3_Update_Tool_V1.1" and "prelim 6" firmware version

so im going to check my settings like shunt values and motor poles, tyre diameter.

any advice? (will this work) going from later than beta16 (19 i think the older one is)

cheers
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scott 29er + Hyena kit, mon-goose to MON-STER 6KW, Free Agent RC Mid Drive, videos

my bike goes so fast 'cos it charges the battery while I pedal

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Gab » Apr 11 2014 8:41pm

on a mid drive it would be useful to show motor RPM different to road speed. On the CA v3 can you use the external wheel speed sensor to show Kmh but then also use the hall sensor input and show motor RPM on the ca v3 ? That would be a nice feature.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Apr 12 2014 2:20am

Gab wrote:on a mid drive it would be useful to show motor RPM different to road speed. On the CA v3 can you use the external wheel speed sensor to show Kmh but then also use the hall sensor input and show motor RPM on the ca v3 ? That would be a nice feature.
i asked for such a feature as well some time ago. but i don't know if justin took it into consideration and if there is a hardware limitation.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 12 2014 4:07am

izeman wrote:
Gab wrote:on a mid drive it would be useful to show motor RPM different to road speed. On the CA v3 can you use the external wheel speed sensor to show Kmh but then also use the hall sensor input and show motor RPM on the ca v3 ? That would be a nice feature.
i asked for such a feature as well some time ago. but i don't know if justin took it into consideration and if there is a hardware limitation.
Unfortunately both the hall sensor input and the wheel sensor input share the same pad and microchip input pin on the circuitboard, so there's no way to have both of these active. However, there is a separate pedal cadence RPM sensor that you could use, and on the 3rd screen of the CA3 you will have both the speed and RPM readouts. The only caveat is that the pedal cadence RPM code was centered around the 100rpm range, not the 10,000 rpm of some motors. So for this to work well you might need to have a single pole for the PAS RPM sensor, but set it to 10 PAS poles in the setup menu, and then get your RPM readings /10. That would probably work OK.

If you want to get fancy you can mount your mid-drive motor in a cradle with a strain gauge sensor for torque pickup, and then have the CA show measured motor output power too.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 12 2014 4:16am

rowbiker wrote:Subject: Failure to run linux CASetupUtility under Ubuntu

The following shows my efforts at getting the linux version of the new CA3 "CASetupUtility" to run under the Ubuntu distro (Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS, common name "precise", kernel 3.2.0-60-generic-pae #91-Ubuntu).

But, helpful advice would be appreciated, and I'm willing to work towards obtaining a mutually useful outcome. ...hj
Thanks, this is being investigated and we should have something for you to try after the weekend. The software is built using Qt and if you are familiar with that and want to play around compiling it, we can provide the source code no problem as well.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Apr 12 2014 6:59am

justin_le wrote:
izeman wrote:
Gab wrote:on a mid drive it would be useful to show motor RPM different to road speed. On the CA v3 can you use the external wheel speed sensor to show Kmh but then also use the hall sensor input and show motor RPM on the ca v3 ? That would be a nice feature.
i asked for such a feature as well some time ago. but i don't know if justin took it into consideration and if there is a hardware limitation.
Unfortunately both the hall sensor input and the wheel sensor input share the same pad and microchip input pin on the circuitboard, so there's no way to have both of these active. However, there is a separate pedal cadence RPM sensor that you could use, and on the 3rd screen of the CA3 you will have both the speed and RPM readouts. The only caveat is that the pedal cadence RPM code was centered around the 100rpm range, not the 10,000 rpm of some motors. So for this to work well you might need to have a single pole for the PAS RPM sensor, but set it to 10 PAS poles in the setup menu, and then get your RPM readings /10. That would probably work OK.

If you want to get fancy you can mount your mid-drive motor in a cradle with a strain gauge sensor for torque pickup, and then have the CA show measured motor output power too.
how would that work? the middrive output rpm is similar to the wheel rpm, which is 2-3x higher then cadence. the real motor rpm is much higher, depending on the reduction used. mine has a 1:6 reduction. so if i mount one (or two or three if easier for the after math) magnet(s) on the output shaft, and take this pas' reading each pas reading corresponds to 6 (or 3 or 2) motor revolutions. the motor rpm would be around 2-3k max, or 300rpm at the shaft. what would i need to set the pas poles so i can get a reading which can easily be converted to real motor speed? let's say showing cadence of 300 for 3krpm would be great.
can this be done? unfortunately i'm really bad in doing those calculation - no idea how i got my master in technical engineering ;)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rowbiker » Apr 12 2014 8:03am

Re linux version:
Thanks Justin! Having the source to compile would be wonderful, and your work on a fix is also appreciated. Let me know what you need from me.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by esoria » Apr 15 2014 4:28am

Hallo to all boys!
First of all, thanks to Justin for WONDERFUL CAv3, now is true the best! So nice new features and better control of power...wonderful!
And thanks to ES community for CA manual and support for all members! :)

Now my little problem....

My battery SOC icon gauge, seems dont work properly, because even when im near to empty battery, the battery icon is like to half, and sure very far from flashing of empty...

I set the correct number of cells, chemistry, amperage ecc...

Is a know problem, all people know this problem, or is only mine?

Thanks to all, and sorry for my not so good english :)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 15 2014 1:26pm

rowbiker wrote:Re linux version:
Thanks Justin! Having the source to compile would be wonderful, and your work on a fix is also appreciated.
OK all linux users, try the attached. Source code is there as well.
Attachments
CASetupUtility-1.0.4-linux.tar.gz
Recompiled version of the CA setup utility for Linux, tested on fresh Ubunto 12.0.4 installs
(6.78 MiB) Downloaded 99 times
CASetupUtility-Source-1.0.4_RenameZIP.pdf
Source code for Qt Project. Requires at least Qt 5.0
(462.74 KiB) Downloaded 82 times
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Apr 15 2014 1:30pm

esoria wrote: My battery SOC icon gauge, seems dont work properly, because even when im near to empty battery, the battery icon is like to half, and sure very far from flashing of empty...
I set the correct number of cells, chemistry, amperage ecc...
Rather than saying you set everything correctly, please tell us the actual settings that you used and the details of the actual pack that you have on the bike. The most common reason for the behaviour you are describing would be using the regular LiPo chemistry option rather than the RCLiP choice when you are using the higher power RC grade cells. There is a staggering difference in the voltage vs. SOC characteristic even though they are nominally the same chemistry.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by esoria » Apr 16 2014 2:01am

Yes justin, this is my settings for 28S 8A Nanotech 25-50 Lipo from Hobbyking

I set CA for Lipo, 28S string, 8A capacity....

But if i remember i dont see in menu' "RClip" but only lipo!

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