Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jul 09 2014 10:13am

ebike11 wrote: Just got my lovely new CA V3 DPS and there are so many settings its awesome with confusion haha
...
do I select "Pass Thru, Current A, Speed kph, Power W, Off 0V, WOT 0V ??
Should I be running the throttle through the CA instead?
...
Also, my shunt value is 2.09..must I input this under SETUP Calibration? The stock setting is 1.0
Please download the Unofficial User Guide and follow the setup procedure in section 4.0 "Basic Installation". I know you have done some of this already, but please read and do all the steps of section 4 - there's useful information spread around in the various steps. If there is a step that is confusing, post back and we'll try to get things cleared up.

When that is working, you will probably want to read section 5.2 "Closed-Loop Throttle Modes" and configure for Current Mode Throttle. Unlike the Basic Installation stuff in section 4, the Advanced Features subsections in section 5 are pretty much independent and you can pick and choose what features you want to read about and incorporate.
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ebike11   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 09 2014 5:12pm

teklektik wrote:
ebike11 wrote: Just got my lovely new CA V3 DPS and there are so many settings its awesome with confusion haha
...
do I select "Pass Thru, Current A, Speed kph, Power W, Off 0V, WOT 0V ??
Should I be running the throttle through the CA instead?
...
Also, my shunt value is 2.09..must I input this under SETUP Calibration? The stock setting is 1.0
Please download the Unofficial User Guide and follow the setup procedure in section 4.0 "Basic Installation". I know you have done some of this already, but please read and do all the steps of section 4 - there's useful information spread around in the various steps. If there is a step that is confusing, post back and we'll try to get things cleared up.

When that is working, you will probably want to read section 5.2 "Closed-Loop Throttle Modes" and configure for Current Mode Throttle. Unlike the Basic Installation stuff in section 4, the Advanced Features subsections in section 5 are pretty much independent and you can pick and choose what features you want to read about and incorporate.
Thanks for the link!!
Also if my throttle is independant and wired directly to the controller and the Infineon controller is connected to the
CA via the 6 pin CA cable, should I select "Pass thru" in the throttle menu??
At the moment it reads "0.00V 0% Pass" on the Throttle In screen

Thanks!!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jul 09 2014 6:14pm

If your throttle is connected to the controller then you are partially wired for 'legacy mode' - the least desirable setup. In that case your throttle mode should be 'WOT (ON)' and you must make additional wiring changes inside the CA. I do not recommend that you pursue this approach; unless there is some special consideration, you should be using 'normal mode' (throttle wired to CA).

These and other questions are answered in the Guide - there is no point in replicating that material here. I strongly recommend that you read the Guide and reconsider your decision to use legacy mode. The link to the Guide was given so you could re-evaluate the decisions you have made so far and to assist you in whatever mode you decide upon.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 09 2014 8:04pm

teklektik wrote:If your throttle is connected to the controller then you are partially wired for 'legacy mode' - the least desirable setup. In that case your throttle mode should be 'WOT (ON)' and you must make additional wiring changes inside the CA. I do not recommend that you pursue this approach; unless there is some special consideration, you should be using 'normal mode' (throttle wired to CA).

These and other questions are answered in the Guide - there is no point in replicating that material here. I strongly recommend that you read the Guide and reconsider your decision to use legacy mode. The link to the Guide was given so you could re-evaluate the decisions you have made so far and to assist you in whatever mode you decide upon.
OK thanks! yes I want to avoid the current "legacy mode" asap. The motor barely turns so I understand what you mean.

Ill check how to wire the throttle to the CA.
But after wiring the throttle to the CA, must I do anything INTERNALLY on the CA?

Thanks again!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jul 09 2014 10:01pm

The motor will run normally in legacy mode - the problem now is that you have a faulty electrical installation - not correct for any mode.

No internal changes should be required for normal mode (assuming that you hve a new 'large screen compatible' controller). Again, these questions may not have simple answers and all installation steps are explained in the Guide - please follow the steps there...
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ebike11   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 09 2014 10:40pm

teklektik wrote:The motor will run normally in legacy mode - the problem now is that you have a faulty electrical installation - not correct for any mode.

No internal changes should be required for normal mode (assuming that you hve a new 'large screen compatible' controller). Again, these questions may not have simple answers and all installation steps are explained in the Guide - please follow the steps there...
Yes I have the V3 DPS and large screen compatible I think

I accidentally set the throttle at WOT and it moved suddenly without touching the throttle
A surprise when not expecting it

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by mrbill » Jul 11 2014 12:37pm

When I use the CAV3 Setup Utility (version 1.2) I run into a minor problem.

At the conclusion of either a read or write operation, the CAV3 appears to issue a full-throttle command to the controller for a split second. Since I have my driven wheel off the ground when the bike is parked, there is no safety issue. But, I do use a rollerbearing clutch on my motor whose rating is just sufficient for use with my motor. Even with my wheel off the ground, the inertia of the drivetrain is enough place a high peak load on the clutch when it is slammed by this full-throttle condition. I'd rather not subject the clutch to being slammed every time I read or write using the Setup Utility.

Can the next version of the CAV3 Setup Utility suppress this unwanted behavior?

Thanks.
Bill Bushnell
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Bike build thread can be seen here.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 12 2014 6:57am

Im still new at going through the CA V3 settings and some of the tech words are over my head a bit.

At the moment, I wanna set the three speed switch to 100% or maximum.
I do not use three speed switches, i only want to set it and forget it at 100%.

What would be the simplest way to achieve this??

To set the speed at 100%, must I still connect a switch to the
AUX POT connector coming from the CA or can I just set it internally through the CA menu??

Thanks in advance!

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cal3thousand   1.21 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cal3thousand » Jul 12 2014 12:05pm

ebike11 wrote:Im still new at going through the CA V3 settings and some of the tech words are over my head a bit.

At the moment, I wanna set the three speed switch to 100% or maximum.
I do not use three speed switches, i only want to set it and forget it at 100%.

What would be the simplest way to achieve this??


To set the speed at 100%, must I still connect a switch to the
AUX POT connector coming from the CA or can I just set it internally through the CA menu??

Thanks in advance!
You dont need any Aux pot settings to go 100%. That is already the default configuration.
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

Planning on posting questions or buying anything on this site? Put up your country (at minimum) on your profile. This is a worldwide forum and we haven't reached clairvoyance.

ebike11   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 12 2014 10:16pm

cal3thousand wrote:
ebike11 wrote:Im still new at going through the CA V3 settings and some of the tech words are over my head a bit.

At the moment, I wanna set the three speed switch to 100% or maximum.
I do not use three speed switches, i only want to set it and forget it at 100%.

What would be the simplest way to achieve this??


To set the speed at 100%, must I still connect a switch to the
AUX POT connector coming from the CA or can I just set it internally through the CA menu??

Thanks in advance!
You dont need any Aux pot settings to go 100%. That is already the default configuration.
My throttle is wired directly to the CA and the CA is wired to Infineon controller

The three speed wires on the Infineon are not connected to anything
However just for testing purposes, I took an external 3 speed switch and plugged it
into the controller..The highest setting does make the motor spin faster than
without using the 3 speed wires on the controller

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Merlin   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Jul 14 2014 3:14am

your controller has a "default" speed setting. (not the CA)

without a 3speed switch connected you may have the 2nd (60%) speed.
its an option you can set in your software from controller.

set all speed modes to 100% and you get what you need.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Architectonic » Jul 14 2014 4:35am

As above, it depends on how the controller is programmed and whether the default setting is 100% or not. The only guaranteed way to get 100% right now is to get the programming cable for the controller and program it so that each of the switch modes are all set to 100%.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 14 2014 4:47am

Ok thanks guys!!

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Cycle Analyst V3 Bugs and Features List

Post by justin_le » Jul 14 2014 5:06am

Well, it's that time of year when a serious crunch of CA3 firmware writing is on order. In order to make this process a bit more organized, I've made a bug/feature submission form for the V3 CA which anyone can use to send in a formal report of sorts, and that way it will be much less likely go get lossed in the thread here.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/12z5DcA ... w/viewform
Feedback Form.jpg
Feedback Form.jpg (26.22 KiB) Viewed 2616 times


I've been going over many of the last 30 pages of posts and my memory trying to get most of them listed. At the moment, there are 16 planned bug fixes in the works:
FW Bug List.gif
FW Bug List.gif (53.69 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
If I'm missing anything, please use the form submission above, which is also available at the end of the V3 CA info page

While I am at it, I am also going to be working on adding various firmware enhancements too. I'm splitting these up into two categories, the first are features that _don't_ require any changes or updates to the eeprom memory parameters. For a variety of reasons, I want the official V3.0 firmware to have the same parameters as what is in the V3 Prelim6 firmware, so any software tools will work the same on all the Prelim6 devices that are on the field. At the moment I've got the following on the radar:
FW 3.0 Features.gif
FW 3.0 Features.gif (39.25 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
A number of other desired feature enhancements require either new setup parameters or changing the meaning/interpretation of existing parameters, and those changes will be reserved for the V3.1 code, even though some of them (like making the PASWatts be settable per-profile) would be simple and widely appreciated.
FW 3.1 Features.gif
FW 3.1 Features.gif (32.28 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
So hopefully with this more formalized process it will be easier to track where the V3 CA code is going and also see that your input has been heard. There are a lot of "under the hood" type changes in the V3 Prelim7 firmware which is part of the reason it has taken a while for the next round of updates. But these changes should make future support and improvements easier to manage.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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izeman   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jul 14 2014 5:13am

thanks for the update justin. it helps a lot to see our issues being addressed and see how/when they are being taken care of. :)


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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 14 2014 6:15am

I know this isnt a SYSTEM feature, but how about a clock?? In the corner of the main screen or anywhere possible

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Merlin   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Jul 14 2014 6:59am

bottom right..where the AH/Temp/Distance is
replace distance with clock or just add clock into it

+1 :)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 14 2014 7:09am

Merlin wrote:bottom right..where the AH/Temp/Distance is
replace distance with clock or just add clock into it

+1 :)
You mean its already available, or your suggestion also? :D

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Merlin   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Merlin » Jul 14 2014 7:21am

...just an idea where to place it ;)

a bit wondering why justin did not take all the knowing stuff and make a CAv4
with new display, more space to program...then he can make all the wishes come true and everyone can setup as he like.
a USB interface to connect a bluetooth dongle + android/apple software and well done is a 249$ Product.

i would buy it ;P

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jul 14 2014 10:10am

clock won't work afaik as ca ain't got a rtc. and no backup battery to save the time.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by panurge » Jul 16 2014 7:05am

Awesome....some are really needed new features/fix for us, european customers....

I know It's a bit hard and there isn't a true need fot it if not for one or 2 systems right now....but what about a retro/direct control via CA3? I'm sure I can Use the CA3 with a Controller that has the retro/direct shifting function, using the manual actuator, but that means the software for the autoshift is manged by the controller....while passing thru the CA could mean to have the ability to set the autoshift accordingly with Other CA setups/sensors/presets....

For the XD 2 speed motor, that's actually the one I own and one of the 2 actually available on the market, this should be a good feature. It could allow for instance, to tune the autoshift while using the motor at 12s or more, or, why not, use a thun or other torque sensor, to modulate power as usual, but even to shift the motor gear at a certain Nm value....

Another possible feature that could maybe yet be implemented with the CA, is to use the same stock 2 speed 3 positions actuator (H-Auto-L) to switch both CA presets and Motor speed position, so that you have 3 different
presets on the CA for each of the 3 speed positions, an ideal dedicated retro-direct section in the CA should otherwise means that you may ideally directly assign a "shifting value" for each of the CA presets....

I'm pretty sure that having deeply researched on the 2 speed retro direct design, Justin, you've even mulled about to implement the shifting option thru the CA3 platform.... :D

Another field to pay attention for the CA, from my point of view, is the actual ability to leave a little residual to get an idling-style function, that's useful for high powered RC builds, to avoid surges and attenuate the freewheel idling noise at low to 0 power levels, I mean really single digit watts; since I think this way to use the CA was not in the original intents, sure, there is something to do to make it works better than now....could be to shut off completely the residual after say X seconds of continued braking and 0 speed, and reapply it at next throttle or speed variation....or other features.

Cheers
JulesL.


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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Jul 16 2014 12:17pm

Hi Guys and thanks for the feedback postings.
panurge wrote: I know It's a bit hard and there isn't a true need fot it if not for one or 2 systems right now....but what about a retro/direct control via CA3? I'm sure I can Use the CA3 with a Controller that has the retro/direct shifting function, using the manual actuator, but that means the software for the autoshift is manged by the controller....while passing thru the CA could mean to have the ability to set the autoshift accordingly with Other CA setups/sensors/presets....
Just to make sure I understand you right, you want a signal that basically reverses the motor direction of a 2-speed retro-direct motor transmission based on certain CA parameters? What is the actual nature of the input signal on the reversable controller that you are running in these systems, is it a simple 0-5V or 0-3.3V digital logic input?
I'm pretty sure that having deeply researched on the 2 speed retro direct design, Justin, you've even mulled about to implement the shifting option thru the CA3 platform.... :D
Indeed you got me there :mrgreen: There aren't any 'spare'' input/output ports on the CA3, so to do this would require re-purposing one of the existing signal lines to be an output instead of an input, and the only one really available for this would be the "D" PAS direction signal line. Or I suppose the thermistor input could be set as an output too, and then there would still be the ability to have a directional sense via the PAS sensor of your pedal direction so you could have a "backwards pedal to shift gear" option, kinda like an electrical version of the old kick-shift 2 speed hubs!
Another field to pay attention for the CA, from my point of view, is the actual ability to leave a little residual to get an idling-style function, that's useful for high powered RC builds, to avoid surges and attenuate the freewheel idling noise at low to 0 power levels, I mean really single digit watts; since I think this way to use the CA was not in the original intents, sure, there is something to do to make it works better than now....could be to shut off completely the residual after say X seconds of continued braking and 0 speed, and reapply it at next throttle or speed variation....or other features.
Yes, another feature that I've thought heavily about over the years :-). You can actually experiment with this now by setting up your system to have a power (watts) throttle and setting your min throttle input to be slightly lower than the actual throttle off voltage. So if your throttle is sitting at 0.9V, put your min throttle input at say 1.0V, so when you let go of the throttle it is at about 4%. If your max power is set to 1000 watts, then when you let go of the throttle it would still be commanding 40 watts from the motor, which is about what it takes to spin a motor unloaded. You'd definitely also want to have the ebrakes wired up so you can shut the motor off completely as well, probably via a handlebar on/off switch.

Another way would be to use the autoPAS mode with a PAS sensor, but have the PASWatts be your low double digits value to keep the motor spinning. Then at least when you turn the bike on it won't be putting a small amount of power through the motor. It's only when you are pedaling then the motor would spin up to speed to be engaged but not provide much power, and then use your throttle when you actually want power output.

If you have a setup and can play around with this first to see how it works, then that would help determine if it's worth including as a build-in feature. We'd add a parameter for "idle watts", and whenever the speed > 0 and the ebrakes are not pressed, then the CA would be commanding this small baseline power. Eliminates the effect of cogging torque in a DD motor so that it feels like a perfect freewheel, and keeps a geared or mid-drive motor engaged so that there is no transmission shock when the motor spins up to speed.
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

ebike11   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Jul 16 2014 4:59pm

Guys I have a question
My voltage fully charged is about 73V on the CA
However is the SETUP MENU, i selected 18cells and 20Ah which are my battery specs but the percentage displays 66%

Is the percentage figure critical for CA and bike operation? 66% is regarding what?
Thanks!

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jul 16 2014 7:04pm

Wrong chemistry. This effect can be seen in the SOC graphs in the Guide.
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