Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madin88 » Jan 16 2017 4:44am

thank you for the quick answer @ Justin and others :)
would it help to mount a small heatsink or thermal pad on the regulator to spread the heat?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lightrush » Jan 16 2017 4:39pm

Hm for some reason I thought it's a 14s pack. Also I had a brake and gear sensors wired in addition to the Thun, throttle and aux when mine gave up. Sorry about that.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madin88 » Jan 17 2017 12:09pm

oh i forgot to mention the e-brake
does it add further load on the regulator?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lightrush » Jan 17 2017 12:45pm

madin88 wrote:oh i forgot to mention the e-brake
does it add further load on the regulator?
Yes it does. :|

To reiterate, I was running a throttle, an ebrake (1), a gearsensor, thun bb and aux switch off of 14S (58.8-59V fully charged) battery when mine went. It did last months like that though and has been under the sun while running. All of which likely contributed to its eventual demise.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Baron » Jan 19 2017 2:09am

Do you need an external shunt for the cycle analyst to read amps/watts, or does the cycle analyst use the controller's shunt for amp measuring? I have a powervelocity 12fet controller, the sticker on the side reads 2.02mOm

What is the purpose of the external shunts for sale for use with the cycle analyst?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Jan 19 2017 3:12am

Baron wrote:Do you need an external shunt for the cycle analyst to read amps/watts, or does the cycle analyst use the controller's shunt for amp measuring? I have a powervelocity 12fet controller, the sticker on the side reads 2.02mOm
Then that's what you would put into the CA's RShunt setting for accurate amps and power readings (assuming that their calibration of 2.02 mOhm is accurate of course).
What is the purpose of the external shunts for sale for use with the cycle analyst?
It is for controllers or ebikes that don't already have a convenient 6-pin CA plug which taps into their internal shunt. That is the vast majority of controllers out there.

In general, for basic CA questions like this it would be best to just start a new thread, so that we can keep this thread specifically focused on new features and testing/troubleshooting in the 3.0 and 3.1 firmwares.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by danielrlee » Jan 19 2017 9:36am

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 19 2017 9:41am

Baron wrote:I have a powervelocity 12fet controller, the sticker on the side reads 2.02mOm
What is the purpose of the external shunts for sale for use with the cycle analyst?
If your controller lacks a CA connector, please download the Unofficial Guide here and check out "Appendix D. Adding a CA-DP Connector to a Generic Controller". The instructions there work for either V2 or V3 CAs.

Hooking up an external shunt is pretty easy and does not require opening or modifying the controller internals. It gives you all the CA functionality found in controllers that come with a built-in CA connector. If you can hook up a cheapie wattmeter, you can hook up a CA external shunt... :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Marc S. » Jan 23 2017 11:07am

I've got an other 'issue'. ;)

I use a generic PAS sensor (PAS is set to 'AutoPAS' and 'PAS noTrq') and got some bogus values on the Human Stats screen.
HWhrs= -3284 and AvgHW= 3390 for instance.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 23 2017 1:40pm

Marc S. wrote:I use a generic PAS sensor (PAS is set to 'AutoPAS' and 'PAS noTrq') and got some bogus values on the Human Stats screen.
HWhrs= -3284 and AvgHW= 3390 for instance.
Okay - took a quick look and saw similar weird numbers already in place on my bench rig...

But - I did a Human Stats Reset and everything began behaving normally.

I can't seem to recreate the failure mode, so this needs a bit more of a look than I can do just now, but try a Trip Reset or Human Stats Reset and see if the issue goes away. If it doesn't, it would be good if you could PM me with your settings file which may help us zero in on the issue.

Meanwhile, I cut a ticket for the issue and we'll get it into b12 (which got held up a bit because of an issue that came up in test).
Thanks for the bug report!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Marc S. » Jan 23 2017 2:26pm

I do a Trip Reset every morning, but never tried a Human Stats reset.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by derb » Jan 26 2017 9:34am

Hello,
I have a Kelly KBS-E controller with ~ 100A battery current and would like to have a Eco mode with 40A via the Cycle Analyst (3.1).
I have installed the external shunt SH-1000-CA3 and the throttle signal is given by the Cycle Analyst to the Kelly Controller.
If I set no limit everything works fine.

My problem:
When I set a current limit in the CA, the motor oscillates during the acceleration.
I have already changed the AGain value up and down but the oscillations remain, it becomes only sluggish or faster. :(
The same if I set PowerLimit and change the PGain value.

I have a mid-drive engine, no hub motor. If that is important

Can someone help me or has an idea what I can still try :?:

Sorry for my english (school is long ago) :roll:

Thank you very much

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 26 2017 11:06am

derb wrote:When I set a current limit in the CA, the motor oscillates during the acceleration.
I have already changed the AGain value up and down but the oscillations remain, it becomes only sluggish or faster. :(
The same if I set PowerLimit and change the PGain value.
Please examine the limit flags as described in section "4.7 Test Throttle and Limit Settings (Interpreting Limit Flags)" of the Guide. This will tell you what is causing the limiting and what parameter to adjust.

If this only occurs on hard acceleration, then it is possible you have a speed limiting problem with DSGain. (I mention this because you have a middrive with a Kelly, so I'm guessing this may not be a grandma-cycle...) Unfortunately, prior to 3.1b12, DSGain issues do not result in an 'S' limit flag so it needs to be diagnosed by symptom rather than by a clear CA indicator. If this fits your symptoms, see section "4.9.2 Speed Gain (PSGain, IntSGain, DSGain)" of the Guide.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Stealth_Rider » Jan 28 2017 12:23pm

justin_le wrote:
Tats wrote: anyone got a definitive simple how to prevent pas surging?
WGain, not DSGain! You are in constant watts mode for PAS assist so it's your watts limiting loop that is coming into play.

Also, install the latest V3.1 firmware build once Teklektik posts it here. This makes the 3 position switch much easier to configure and doesn't require any 'hacks' to get proportional RPM behavior, you can explicitly set your relationship in Watts/RPM with the autoPAS mode.
Hi Teklektik,

Are we close to seeing V3.1? I would like to use the 3 position switch configuration improvements. ETA?

Jim
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 28 2017 11:19pm

Stealth_Rider wrote:Are we close to seeing V3.1? I would like to use the 3 position switch configuration improvements. ETA?
3.1b12 should be out in the next few days - it's back in alpha test just now. We had an annoying bug show up a week ago that postponed things a bit.

Meanwhile, here's a teaser :D
  • CA3-1a22_newParmMenus.png
    Revised Aux menus with specific control types and simplified 3-pos switch limit %'s
    CA3-1a22_newParmMenus.png (42.19 KiB) Viewed 2271 times
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 28 2017 11:31pm

Marc S. wrote:I use a generic PAS sensor (PAS is set to 'AutoPAS' and 'PAS noTrq') and got some bogus values on the Human Stats screen.
HWhrs= -3284 and AvgHW= 3390 for instance.
hey marc-
I haven't been able to reproduce this issue beyond that initial bad display that I saw. That was a little suspect because the values were just 'there' on inspection after all manner of bad configurations and software debugging, so my EEPROM may have been corrupted. Have you seen this again? If so, please fwd a settings file and we'll pursue it in b13.
-tek
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Stealth_Rider » Jan 29 2017 10:27am

teklektik wrote:
Stealth_Rider wrote:Are we close to seeing V3.1? I would like to use the 3 position switch configuration improvements. ETA?
3.1b12 should be out in the next few days - it's back in alpha test just now. We had an annoying bug show up a week ago that postponed things a bit.

Meanwhile, here's a teaser :D
Well, the teaser looks very very nice-no more lookup tables. I love it :D

I was thinking that based on Justin's post the 3.1 release was not a beta any more. Are we still working betas on 3.1?

I'm at 3.01 now so when I install 3.1b12 do I need to do anything special? I have written down my settings for gains, ramps, throttle in, throttle out, etc. so if I have to overwrite to go to 3.1b12 its no problem because I can put them back in by hand or using the Setup Utility.

Thanks.
Jim
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Obtaining improved Rshunt using Satiator

Post by Stealth_Rider » Jan 29 2017 10:45am

I use a CAV3 with a DP connection to the controller. I am wondering about this method for improving the value for Rshunt using a Satiator. Here's the plan.

I've set the Satiator up with several profiles for my battery pack. This gives me some confidence that I can recharge the pack to the same final condition.

1. First, I'll take the bike for a ride (2AH used) and then recharge the battery to 90% using the Satiator. This should set me up with the battery in a final condition charge state.
2. I'll then have a good starting condition and take the bike out for a ride (2-4AH used). I'll get the exact number of AH from the CAV3 that I used.
3. I'll charge to 90%, get to charge complete, and the Satiator will tell me how many AH went into the battery.
4. I'll make an adjustment to Rshunt in the CA. If AH Satiator >AH CA I'll raise Rshunt slightly.
5. I'll zero the CAV3 and take my next ride and repeat my procedure.
6. I'll adjust Rshunt until AH Satiator is close to AH CA.

Comments?

Jim
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 29 2017 10:52am

Stealth_Rider wrote: I was thinking that based on Justin's post the 3.1 release was not a beta any more. Are we still working betas on 3.1?

I'm at 3.01 now so when I install 3.1b12 do I need to do anything special? I have written down my settings for gains, ramps, throttle in, throttle out, etc. so if I have to overwrite to go to 3.1b12 its no problem because I can put them back in by hand or using the Setup Utility.
Although we had hoped to have a formal 3.1 production release out by now, things don't always go as planned. At this point we expect that b13 will likely be the final beta before 3.1 is formalized. So - soon - just not yet.

There are a couple of README files in each package that discuss the install procedure, etc. There is no doubt that you will have to reconfigure the CA from scratch - the 3.01 firmware is miles away from the 3.1 beta versions.

The Setup Utility can differentiate firmware versions by the major '3.01' or '3.1' designation - it does not understand the various beta designations. So - although you can open a 3.01 and a second 3.1 at the same time (either in different tabs or in different executions of the same Setup installation), it is not possible to open a 31b10 and 3.1b12 at the same time - once the 3.1b12 package is installed, the utility considers all 3.1 configurations to have the b12 format unless you reinstall an earlier package (e.g. b10).

I need to rebuild configurations all the time and have found the easiest means is to make two installations of the Setup Utility in different locations. Install a package for your existing build on one installation and install a package for the new firmware on the other. Open Setup from both locations at the same time. This will allow you to pull your CA config into one SetupUtil and manually transfer settings to the other 'new' config - not very automatic, but easier than transcribing a bunch of settings when using only a single installation.
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Re: Obtaining improved Rshunt using Satiator

Post by teklektik » Jan 29 2017 11:07am

Stealth_Rider wrote:I am wondering about this method for improving the value for Rshunt using a Satiator. Here's the plan.
...
This seems a variation of one of the techniques described in the Guide.
Since you have a Satiator which has a charge current display, you might go at this more directly using the CA to directly view your charge current. Calibration is then a simple calculation.

See:
"6.10 Monitoring Charge Current"
"Appendix A. Calibrating the Cycle Analyst RShunt Value"
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by derb » Jan 30 2017 4:29am

derb wrote:Hello,
I have a Kelly KBS-E controller with ~ 100A battery current and would like to have a Eco mode with 40A via the Cycle Analyst (3.1).
I have installed the external shunt SH-1000-CA3 and the throttle signal is given by the Cycle Analyst to the Kelly Controller.
If I set no limit everything works fine.

My problem:
When I set a current limit in the CA, the motor oscillates during the acceleration.
I have already changed the AGain value up and down but the oscillations remain, it becomes only sluggish or faster. :(
The same if I set PowerLimit and change the PGain value.

I have a mid-drive engine, no hub motor. If that is important

Can someone help me or has an idea what I can still try :?:

Sorry for my english (school is long ago) :roll:



Thank you very much

I found the problem.
I had to set the Throttle Up / Downrate to Fast (1) at the Controller.

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Re: Obtaining improved Rshunt using Satiator

Post by Stealth_Rider » Jan 30 2017 1:01pm

teklektik wrote:
Stealth_Rider wrote:I am wondering about this method for improving the value for Rshunt using a Satiator. Here's the plan.
...
This seems a variation of one of the techniques described in the Guide.
Since you have a Satiator which has a charge current display, you might go at this more directly using the CA to directly view your charge current. Calibration is then a simple calculation.

See:
"6.10 Monitoring Charge Current"
"Appendix A. Calibrating the Cycle Analyst RShunt Value"
Hi Teklektik,

6.10.1 requires that the controller be modified whereas comparing Satiator AH in to CA AH used doesn't require modification. You do, however, need to have a Satiator :lol:

I'll continue trying out my AH comparison method and see how rapidly I converge on a value of Rshunt that give approximate AH equality.

Jim
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Re: Obtaining improved Rshunt using Satiator

Post by justin_le » Jan 31 2017 12:43am

Stealth_Rider wrote: I'll continue trying out my AH comparison method and see how rapidly I converge on a value of Rshunt that give approximate AH equality.
You don't need to converge Jim, you can get this spot on in your very first iteration.

RShunt(new) = RShunt(old)*[CA_Ah]/[Satiator_Ah]

Tweaking it up or down a bit at a time and repeating until it converges is just silly. I'd recommend using the Satiator at maximum current when doing this, and yes discharge a good chunk of the battery, not just 1-2Ah but more like 10Ah, in order that variations in the final charge SOC level are small compared to the overall charge moved back and forth.

Now as for the accuracy of this method, I'd say it will get you within ~3-4% pretty well. Of course it will only work with lithium batteries which have near perfect coulombetric efficiency, with Nickle or SLA's it's not a viable approach as your charging amp-hours is higher than your discharge Ah.
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by jPas » Jan 31 2017 1:26pm

I'm currently running V3.1b11 with a throttle and 3 position Analog Aux switch and an ebikes.ca PAS sensor (PAS_12P_Chr).

Lately I've had an issue with PAS not working most of the time.
It was working fine previously with b11, so I'm guessing it might be a wiring / connection issue?

The light on the PAS sensor looks like it's working.. and I re-seated the PAS connector to the CA3.
I previously squirted some dielectric grease into the connectors.

In the Setup PAS Sensor menu only the right hand bar of the "P- D-" moves up and down.
On the Display #3 – Human Power screen it just displays 0 RPM.

The regular screen 1 PAS animation hasn't been working, but I think that's a known issue which didn't affect the actual functionality before..

Not sure what to check next..

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 31 2017 2:43pm

jPas wrote:Lately I've had an issue with PAS not working most of the time.
In the Setup PAS Sensor menu only the right hand bar of the "P- D-" moves up and down.
On the Display #3 – Human Power screen it just displays 0 RPM.
'Only the Poles arrow flipping' is normal behavior - so that's good.

Sounds kind of hardware-like...
The fact that it's intermittent would make me first look at the proximity of the magnet wheel and the pickup...
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