Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Nov 23 2019 10:18pm

DanGT86 wrote:
Nov 23 2019 11:23am
Sorry if this is covered somewhere in the 180 pages of this thread. I'd like to further understand the function of pass through throttle.

Which limiters are in effect in pass thru mode?

Specifically, is the ramp up time still active? Do the minimum voltage input and output settings go away in pass thru?
Per the CA v3 info page at Grin:
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html
Pass-Thru: User throttle is linearly mapped from the input throttle range to the output throttle range, with throttle rate limiting applied if necessary. Throttle behavior is similar to having the throttle directly connected to the motor controller. [Default]
So the up and down ramps are still active, and it still uses the throttle signal voltage mapping, but it doesn't use any of the closed-loop modifiers, like Current, Speed, or Power, to modulate throttle.

Speed limits, power limits, current limits, all still limit it.


As opposed to Pass-Thru, Bypass mode literally just sends the same throttle signal out that came in.

The manual itself or Teklektik's UUG (first page of this thread) might explain it better than me; haven't checked it in a while.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by DanGT86 » Dec 08 2019 10:39am

Are the Plim and Alim gain adjustments both still in play at the same time during Current throttle? I'm still trying to tune out an oscillation that pretty much goes away in pass thru.

It appears the A flag is on all the time under throttle which I thought was to be expected. I switched to pass thru and when the oscillation starts the V flag goes active. So if Its limiting based on Voltage going too low, which gain adjustment would be controlling that?

Also, is there a way to get the temp to display on the main screen all the time rather than toggling between temp and something else in the lower left?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 08 2019 11:29pm

To the last, yes; just unselect all the other things that can display there, using the setup program on a computer, in the Display section, under Custom Display Fields. (you may also be able to do this in teh CA setup, but it's easier on the ocmputer). That's how I have mine set right now.

To the others tuff, I don't know. :/

However, if you are getting the Voltage limiting flag, then your battery is sagging below the limit you've set in the CA. Check the limit to make sure it's correct, and if it is, you need to find out why it's sagging, and fix it. If it's not correct, and is set too high, you need to lower it to below what the normal sag is on the battery.

The low voltage limit is there to protect your battery, so if you're hitting it, something is wrong somewhere.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by DanGT86 » Dec 09 2019 10:28am

Good idea regarding the temp display and turning off all the other options. I don't know why that wasn't obvious to me. I guess I fell into thinking you had to choose multiple things for it to toggle between.

As for the voltage sag. Its to be expected. I'm pulling 4-6c from a lipo pack and they were sitting at 3.65v per cell when I started my ride. My low volt limit on the CA3 is set at a conservative 3.5v. I only had a few minutes to test out a new setup and it was primarily to check mechanical stuff and look for any bad solders or high resistance points. So with the obviously expected sag I was left wondering which Gain term was in charge of the voltage Lim? It seems logical that it would be the gain Amp or Power that the throttle is based on. But since voltage is a secondary result of the closed loop function I wasn't sure if the P-lim gain would still come into effect in amp throttle mode.

Taking it very easy on the throttle ramp with the low charged pack I was still getting some stutter in the power delivery and the CA was set to refresh at .300sec so the particular flag might have been easy to miss.

I went back the next day with a fully charged pack and had mixed results.

The setup is the following:
LMX 30mm motor chain driven to top out at about 30mph
20s 10ah lipo pack
12 fet controller set to 65 batt amps and 120 phase amps

Ca settings are
LV limit 70v (3.5vpc)
power 9999 watts (my attempt to remove the Plim Gain from causing the stutter)
Amp Limit 65amps
A-Lim Gain 75
Throttle ramp 15 volts/sec

After about 5 miles of repeated full throttle launches I determined that any A-lim gain below 70 slows the throttle ramp up down to a an unacceptable lag. It makes the bike hard to ride at low speed. Anything above 80 on the amp gain brings back the stutter. So it would appear that the laws of physics are letting me know what the maximum ramp up throttle speed I can have is.

I suppose I need to turn the gain up to the point where the stutter is barely present and then reduce the throttle ramp until it goes away? At that point I should have found the maximum smooth response time (gain) as well as the fastest throttle ramp possible with this setup. Does that sound right?

The pack voltage stayed above my CA LV limit by 3v so I don't believe I'm getting a V flag anymore. Its hard to see during full throttle launches.

I'll try to hook up my CA data logger and see if there are flags that are too short to appear on the display in real time. The logger doesn't work with this CA3 but works on my other one so I'll need to get to the bottom of that issue first.

Also need to get the latest firmware on the CA3 because this one doesn't have bypass mode. That would be the best way to rule out some other problem.

Thanks for the help so far. Is this the correct thread for this type of support or am I junking up the instruction manual thread with my own tuning adventures?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by john61ct » Dec 09 2019 1:13pm

Any thread with 4500 posts is past saving.

But always better to start your own if you think it needs to go over a half-dozen posts

Just put the most important keywords in the title

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by jassox » Dec 11 2019 12:37pm

having problem where my ebrake flag is all time on its like holds it on this started after made power button and changed new throtle specs bafang bbshd ca3 phaserunner 72v/20ah

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 11 2019 10:22pm

If the ebrake flag is always on, with the little moving ebrake lever icon, then the ebrake input is always shorted together. Disconnect it and see if the flag goes away.

If it doesn't, the wiring harness from there to the CA may be damaged and shorting those pins, or something in the CA itself could be.

If it does go away, then either your ebrake is stuck on or somethign is shorting those pins in the wiring harness between the ebrake and the connector.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by jassox » Dec 12 2019 5:19pm

wiring harnes checked it gives like 1.20v to ebrake and throtle all the time

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 12 2019 6:41pm

If both throttle and ebrake signal lines are exactly the same voltage, while CA is still connected to throttle and ebrake, then it sounds like they're shorted together, possibly shorted to yet another wire as well.

Throttle output should read 0.0 to 1.0v max depending on the device used inside it, when not engaged, but still connected to the CA throttle input.

Ebrake output should be open circuit when not engaged, if it's a switch. That can be tested using the ohms or continuity setting on your meter, with the ebrake connector disconnected from the CA. If it's a sensor type, it should read near the supply voltage (usually 5v) to it, when connected to the CA.



I would carefully examine all of the changes you made to the wiring, to be sure it's wired correctly and nothing is shorted together.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by jassox » Dec 12 2019 6:57pm

i dont even use ebrakes wiring is same as it worked before just wired power button /on off nothink else

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 12 2019 7:03pm

If the ebrake signal icon is engaged on the CA, then *something* is connected to the ebrake connector, causing it to be below the trigger voltage.

If you're getting a stuck throttle signal at 1.20v even when it's not engaged, *something* is causing that voltage to be that high, which means something else is probably shorted to it (or the sensor is defective, etc).

I can only point out how things *should* work; *you* have to actually do the testing to find out how things *are* working, in order to find the problem.

I can't help you find what's wrong if you don't do that.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by jassox » Dec 16 2019 9:33pm

it doest show ebrake signal on ca its on phaserunner suite where i see those stats wiring is same unchanged after swap new throtle i changed back and this brake stuff have been on ever since

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 16 2019 11:04pm

jassox wrote:
Dec 16 2019 9:33pm
it doest show ebrake signal on ca its on phaserunner suite
Then you're posting in the wrong thread, because this is the Cycle Analyst v3 thread. Not the Phaserunner thread.

If you don't have a Cycle Analyst, but instead have a Phaserunner, and all the wiring you're talking about is for the Phaserunner, then you should either make a thread specifically for your whole project, including the problem you are having (best option), or post your problem in the main Phaserunner thread.

In your post you should link to your posts in this thread, so whoever is helping can see what's already been discussed and discarded. You should make sure your new post includes *complete* and *exact* details of what you had before the problem, exactly how it was wired and software setup before the problem, and exactly how it is wired and software setup now, after the problem, and every exact step you have performed to troubleshoot the problem, listed step by step.

With *all* of that information, someone can probably help you figure it out.

If they have to drag important details out of you like is happening here, it's gonna take a long time, if ever, to help you. :(

Keep in mind that if it were all still setup and wired the same as it was, before, with no failures or problems, you wouldn't be having the issue you're having.

So *something* has changed, that you will have to test for and troubleshoot, to find the problem and fix it.

What that is, I have no idea at this point, since you havent' tested anything that's been suggested, or if you have you haven't posted the results of the testing, only pointing out *now* that your device is not even the one that we've been talking about so far, so there's nothing more I can suggest.

You have to help us help you.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by jassox » Dec 16 2019 11:25pm

i have them both and ca i dont know so much about yet since its new on me so i wonder if its causes this

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 16 2019 11:32pm

Are you willing to test whats' been suggested?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by maccoa » Jan 14 2020 3:05pm

Hello.
I have been using the CAv3.14 for 1 week with a phaserunner.
it's really great.
but I encounter some problems, if I understood correctly at each battery recharge, we reset the CAv3.14 and the number of recharge cycles is counted, mine remains at 0.
I have no measure of resistance of the pack either, always at 0.000mR
the wh / km seem crazy to me and sometimes they stay at 0

did i forget something in the settings?
Thank you for your help
thank you justin for your work :bigthumb:
Trek marlin 5 29er , continental top contact 2 , RH205 9*7 , phaserunner , CA3 , 16S6P samsung 25R .

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Jan 15 2020 1:28am

maccoa wrote:
Jan 14 2020 3:05pm
but I encounter some problems, if I understood correctly at each battery recharge, we reset the CAv3.14 and the number of recharge cycles is counted, mine remains at 0.
iirc, you have to use up at least a couple of ah before it counts as a cycle. shoudl say in the current version of the manual, if not it's in this thread somewhere.
I have no measure of resistance of the pack either, always at 0.000mR
the wh / km seem crazy to me and sometimes they stay at 0
wh/km remaining at zero means that either the speed itself is not being measured, or the watts aren't.

the former means the speed sensor isn't correctly reading the speed, either because it has a connection probem, or a setting for it is incorrect.

the latter means the shunt isn't correctly measuring the current, either because it has a connection probem, or a setting for it is incorrect.

if you're also seeing no pack resistance, that is calcuated from pack voltage drop vs current draw, so also involving the shunt.

that tends to point to a problem reaing c urrent draw, thus a problem with the shunt ro wiring or sertings.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by maccoa » Jan 19 2020 8:30am

I reverse the blue and white wires on the connector of the CA3 and everything works perfectly.

another question :
as much as possible, I would like to avoid passing wires outside the frame of the bike.
currently it is the cable of CA3 which passes inside.
I just have to connect an engine temperature sensor and a PAS sensor (5v), 5 wires in total and 6 wires with those of CA3.
I have a 10 conductor cable, is there a trick to using 10 conductors instead of 11?
thank you so much
Trek marlin 5 29er , continental top contact 2 , RH205 9*7 , phaserunner , CA3 , 16S6P samsung 25R .

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 08 2020 5:46pm

NCC1941 wrote:
Feb 08 2020 2:06pm
ebike11 wrote:
Feb 08 2020 4:37am
May i ask what is the correct way to wire the actual throttle to the CA throttle connector?
Thanks!
All of the CA3 connector pinouts, including for the throttle, are shown here: https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycl ... or-pinouts
I know the correct throttle connector coming from the CA..but when using an external shunt and generic controller..i must use the grren wire from the shunt to the green signal wire on the controller. However..do I still use all 3 wires of the CA throttle connector to the throttle itself at the handlebars? Thx

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by NCC1941 » Feb 08 2020 7:54pm

ebike11 wrote:
Feb 08 2020 5:46pm
I know the correct throttle connector coming from the CA..but when using an external shunt and generic controller..i must use the grren wire from the shunt to the green signal wire on the controller. However..do I still use all 3 wires of the CA throttle connector to the throttle itself at the handlebars? Thx
Yes. The throttle needs to be powered to send a signal back to the CA, and that's what the other two wires are for. Whether the power wires (black and red) are wired to the CA or wired to the controller's throttle input likely doesn't matter much, but the throttle won't work unless all 3 wires are connected, and the signal wire from the throttle needs to go to the CA, while the signal wire from the CA Shunt needs to go to the corresponding wire of the controller's throttle input.
"The Kitchen Sink" - 2016 Surly ECR 29", 2WD Grin All-Axle + 9C RH212, 2x Phaserunner, 52v50Ah EM3ev (Rolling WIP)
"Novara Barrow eBike" - 2016 Novara Barrow Bike, Luna BBS02, 52v28Ah EM3ev (Retired)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ebike11 » Feb 08 2020 10:07pm

NCC1941 wrote:
Feb 08 2020 7:54pm
ebike11 wrote:
Feb 08 2020 5:46pm
I know the correct throttle connector coming from the CA..but when using an external shunt and generic controller..i must use the grren wire from the shunt to the green signal wire on the controller. However..do I still use all 3 wires of the CA throttle connector to the throttle itself at the handlebars? Thx
Yes. The throttle needs to be powered to send a signal back to the CA, and that's what the other two wires are for. Whether the power wires (black and red) are wired to the CA or wired to the controller's throttle input likely doesn't matter much, but the throttle won't work unless all 3 wires are connected, and the signal wire from the throttle needs to go to the CA, while the signal wire from the CA Shunt needs to go to the corresponding wire of the controller's throttle input.
Ok thanks! Ill give it a shot tomorrow

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by tomjasz » Feb 13 2020 6:21am

How can a CA3 and CA2.4 be set up for a bench test and programing off the ebike? Or do I need to power from my controller?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rowbiker » Feb 13 2020 12:45pm

tomjasz wrote:
Feb 13 2020 6:21am
How can a CA3 and CA2.4 be set up for a bench test and programing off the ebike? Or do I need to power from my controller?
You do not need any controller in the circuit to program the CAv3 -- I don't know anything about the CA2.4. I made a very simple cable/plug/adapter/switch assembly using a 24V lipo battery, an inline SPST switch, and a JST-SM6 plug to mate with the CAv3's CA-DP plug. You ignore all but the DC pack voltage (red and black) wires in the JST-SM6 plug, and put the on/off switch inline with the red/positive DC lead. I'll attempt to attach a photo of what I'm describing as soon as I can figure out how to do that on this forum.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by rowbiker » Feb 13 2020 1:36pm

Apparently I need to resize ("smallify") my photo before uploading, so for now I'll just post a link to it on my server. If someone wants to snag the photo and post it here, that would be great, otherwise I'll eventually learn how to do that myself.

Image

In case the above doesn't result in a working link, paste the following in your browser, or click on it if it presents itself in that manner:

http://erowbike.com/ca.html#ca_programming_kit

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gronph » Apr 06 2020 2:53pm

justin_le wrote:
Jul 04 2019 3:11pm
izeman wrote:
Jul 04 2019 5:17am
Btw, as you wrote that: Is there a planned feature list for new firmwares? Is CA3 still developed?
Yes, there is definitely ongoing development going on with the CA product line, but some of this has switched track to being more hardware related rather than firmware related which I'll be posting about soon.
Can you please give us an Update Justin?
Is CA development still alive?

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