Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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justin_le   10 MW

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PAS and Torque Sensors

Post by justin_le » Mar 26 2012 3:13am

el_walto wrote:I'm interested in the Torque Sensors. Would be nice if i could build pedal and go ebikes for my parents. Not sure if there is going to be anything decent available from ebikes.ca torque sensor wise to go with the CA.
For sure, we have a small number THUN torque sensors on hand (like maybe 6 or 7 left for beta testers) and will be ordering them in some quantity very soon so that we can offer a CA V3+THUN bundle, with pre-made wiring harnesses to simplify the assembly. The input settings for the torque and PAS sensor in the CA itself are pretty flexible, so it's not tied to any specific device and should accomodate anything on the market that has a linear voltage/torque relationship. You indicate the scaling factor in Nm/V (the thun is 100, but we set this to 200 so that it doubles the torque to account for the single sided torque sensing nature of the device):
TrqScale.jpg
TrqScale.jpg (9.96 KiB) Viewed 6193 times
Plus you can zero the torque offset, much like the zero amps routing for the current offset:
Trq Offset.jpg
Trq Offset.jpg (10.48 KiB) Viewed 6193 times
For the pedal cadence sensing, you set the number of pulses per pedal rotation:
PAS Poles.jpg
PAS Poles.jpg (9.73 KiB) Viewed 6193 times
And if the cadence sensing has a quadrature encoder, then there is a polarity selection to indicate which is direction is forwards and which is reverse pedalling:
Dir Polarity.jpg
Dir Polarity.jpg (9.78 KiB) Viewed 6193 times
All of my testing so far has been done with the THUN X-Cell sensor, for the most part it is pretty good but there are a few slight shortcomings that came up:

1) Magnetic Field Sensitivity: My demo bench was welded up from steel frame bike parts and a lot of the tools in my garage are slightly magnetized, and as a result the test jig has some residual magnetism too. It turns out that the sensing technology is extremely sensitive to external fields, so on my demo setup even with no torque on the bottom bracket, I would see a variation in about +- 10Nm in the signal output just by changing the spindle angle. When I touched my slightly magnetized wrench to the THUN spindle to remove the crank say, then the signal would jump off the scale. On an alloy frame bike this is all of minimal consequence, but I can envision situations with steel frames that have had magnets stuck on them in the past where a degaussing of the bottom bracket area might be necessary.

2) Offset hysterisis, The specified accuracy error of the THUN sensor is 2%, which looks really good at first. However, that is not the linearity error but 2% of full scale. Since it reads up to +- 200Nm, then the output can be off by +- 4Nm, which is a lot if you are only doing light pedalling. If you are averaging like 15-20 Nm which is pretty typical for casual effort, then the accuracy error can reach 20-30%. You can see this first hand by measuring the voltage from the THUN sensor with no torque, then standing and hoping on the pedals, and then looking at the zero torque reading again. If it was 2.49V the first time, it might read 2.52V or so afterwords. Spin the pedals 180 and hop on them again, and the zero torque reading might be 2.47V. That means that for very accurate reading of the human power, it will be important to periodically check and re-zero the thun's torque offset. For just PAS mode it's no issue, but for someone using it as a training aid it's not quite as suited as I had hoped.

3) Spindle length options Thun offers 120, 127, and 136mm spindles which is fine for the large majority of bikes. We thought it would be fun to install one on the Dogati bike after the Taipei show and have maybe the worlds first multi kW pedalec! But the Dogati needs a >150mm spindle for the cranks to clear the motor drive assembly, and lots of other mid-drive ebikes (like the Cycleone-USA stuff) require speciality long spindles too. I'll ask Thun what the minimum numbers would be to have a longer spindle option tooled up, because if we can have it work with the majority of mid-drives as well then that would be sweet.

Here is what the sensor looks like, btw:
THUn BB.jpg
THUn BB.jpg (11.69 KiB) Viewed 6193 times
The ST-01 torque sensor being shown by GreenTrans looks like it has a few benefits, namely that it senses both left and right crank torques and also has a wire exit on the side of the bottom bracket rather than through the center, so you don't need to drill a hole through the frame to feed the wire out:
http://www.greentrans.com.tw/eng/downlo ... alogue.pdf
However, the dual sided sensing means that a special adapter needs to be fit to link the chainring to a splined sleeve on the spindle. You can't just use an off-the-shelf crank and chainring on the right side if you want to "see" the right side pedal torque. And when I talked to them, they were really only interested in providing a whole package solution and not so much in supplying just the torque sensor. I'll try to follow-up but don't hold too much promise.

The other supplier is Schaeffler FAG, who do the torque sensing BB's for the Bosch mid drive module. In the press release they also list it as dual left/right pedal torque sensing:
http://www.schaeffler-group.com/content ... id=3447045
But I heard indirectly that this is only available to Bosch, and the one that they showed me at the show was single side sensing like the Thun, but instead of with a -200 to +200 NM range, it was a 0-100 Nm range. So it would probably be more accurate at measuring human watts at lower power levels, but would hit saturation when someone is really pushing on the cranks.

Definitely Thun as a company has been most responsive and the easiest to work with so far, so we'll carry their sensor to start, but it's good to see that there could be a few other options for people in this space. The last torque sensor we looked at was YST:
http://www.yst-corp.com.tw/products_vie ... 1104150001
Theirs has a non-linear varying resistance to torque relationship, which isn't very practical for device interfacing.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 26 2012 3:24am

adrian_sm wrote:The other file I created was a trip summary file. Basically whenever the bike came to rest it wrote or overwrote out to a different file that contained the same "trip number" as the datalog file. It included basically all the summary stats you would see on the display. Trip times, dist, wh, wh/km, average power, max amps, min volts, etc. It was great to automatically record the summary stats for each ride. The downside was that they were each in a separate file, making it a pain to review all the trips. A better method would be to have one file that has a line per trip for all the stats. But this requires different logic on how the file is written, or how you access the file to update the trip stats. Anyway, that would be another killer feature for the CA if you can be bothered doing it.
Another really great idea. Best would be if it was right at the top of the header file, so the first thing you see on opening a log file is the trip distance, trip time, wh/km, avg speed, etc. then the list of settings, and then finally the table of raw data. As you say somewhat tricky logic to pull off given that the CA/Logger can get powered down at any random point, especially in our case since the CA and the card writer are two separate devices with only one way communication between them, but I'll see what we can do. There's enough processing power in the analogger that it could scan the entire log file and generate the summary stats and put them on the header quite independent of the CA.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by dodjob » Mar 26 2012 11:55am

justin_le wrote:
dodjob wrote:Really nice improvements there! :)
In Europe we have the legal possibility to have a "push/start-help" 'til 6Km/h (without the PAS signal) after this speed a PAS signal is needed to reach "full" speed. Any infos If this could be inplemented or if it eventually already the case? ^^
Yes, at present I have almost the opposite. There is a "Start Speed" setting which gives a minimum speed that you need to attain before there is any output power to the motor.
Start Speed.jpg
This is there mostly for sensorless RC type setups that have issues with starting from a dead stop. There's no reason not to have a "PAS Threshold Speed" that requires pedalling above a certain speed but allows throttle only power below that. I'll probably fit this setting in with the PAS setup menu, but haven't implemented it yet.

Is it only germany that has this legislation passed or is it europe wide?

-Justin
GREAT :D I deal currently with cargo bikes (actually Beer-cruiser ^^) and they are really heavy to start specially when "loaded" :D
This should be an European rule. I know 100% that it's the case for Germany but I will check if it's the case in the whole EU.
Again, keep the good work, you rock ;)
Gruß,
H.
*EDIT* Semms to be only the case in Germany. If someone can confirm for other lands in EU that could be great :)
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Trackman417 » Mar 26 2012 12:32pm

This new CA looks BOSS! 8) :lol: :D how can you put enough smileys to express that?!
Haha one question that comes to mind is does this new CA lag when it senses that one of the inputs has exceeded its max value? Or does it just not allow any of the values to be over shot? When I set the CA to not exceed a certain limit it will go over that limit for a brief second or two and then it will adjust the throttle correctly. Would the case be different with this new one?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Tench » Mar 26 2012 12:34pm

Trackman417 wrote:This new CA looks BOSS! 8) :lol: :D how can you put enough smileys to express that?!
Haha one question that comes to mind is does this new CA lag when it senses that one of the inputs has exceeded its max value? Or does it just not allow any of the values to be over shot? When I set the CA to not exceed a certain limit it will go over that limit for a brief second or two and then it will adjust the throttle correctly. Would the case be different with this new one?
It is the gain values set in your CA that govern how fast the unit responds to a limit being exceeded, you can change these yourself in the one you have, well i can in the 2 i have, v2.2 and v2.25.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Mar 26 2012 3:56pm

nice..... I dont know how I missed this thread.

We are in the middle of implementing a wireless IR temperature sensor that can be mounted to the rear drop aiming at the motor. We have a tiny black box with an arduino nano shield that translates the I2C coming out of the IR sensor... which we initially intended to use to directly retard the throttle.... Now it looks like we can just scale this signal and PWM it out to your RTD input as a direct control voltage. The CA will read it just like an RTD input - but now folks wont have to open their motors up to have temperature protection.

This will be good :-)

We have been working on some code that monitors the rate of change of temperature on the cover of the motor to predict the winding temperature internally. Smart, wireless, temperature sensor....

Parts have already arrived, prototypes are in the works.

The CA just keeps looking better and better to me. It was the first piece of ebike equipment I ever owned and I still think of it as a critical part of every ebike - as critical as the battery, motor, and controller.

Keep up the good work

-methods
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by snellemin » Mar 26 2012 4:46pm

I'm loving this thread. I couldn't wait for the new one allready and now talk about wireless temp sensors!!!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hillzofvalp » Mar 26 2012 10:17pm

Wait... Do I hear exponential torque throttle curve in this version? Eh? ----eh? :lol: :lol:

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hillzofvalp » Mar 26 2012 10:29pm

johnrobholmes wrote:The throttle mapping is just icing on the cake! I can use them for any controllers now, what a great piece of kit.

Ever get any farther on integrating a watt controlled throttle or integrating amp limiting with speed limiting throttle types?
It would be epic if we cold program the CA To change the watts limit on the fly based on speed. That would solve a lot of the instant wheelie problems at low speed with a high power setup. I suppose it would have to be implemented in a safe way so that to arent suddenly launched when you are on a borderline limit. Maybe a buffer if some sort would be appropriate... Or maybe like this:

Say you have 2 speed ranges for 2 corresponding watts limits + 1 additional overdrive limit that can be called at any speed. Whenever you are 0-10 unitspod speed your limit is 1000W. When you hit 11 in speed it retains the set 1000W limit until to let go of the throttle completely.. Then when you resume throttle and you are above 10 you will see the second limit you set of say 2000W. Then whenever you want to map the full current range to the throttle you double tap the the bottojm of the throttle and you are in unlimited mode!

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by stripedtuna » Mar 26 2012 11:57pm

Awesome product mate..

Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the output voltage of the cable for powering lights on the handlebars configurable via the CA? As in the cable for powering my front lights on my bike. I am about to wire up the front lights on my first e-bike, and when i noticed that cable coming out of the CA, i was jumping in joy. Now i just need to know if i have to wire a dc-dc step down in between or if the CA can do it for me..

Thanks heaps..

and keep up the great work mate..

cheers,

Ed.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2012 10:54am

stripedtuna wrote:Awesome product mate..
Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the output voltage of the cable for powering lights on the handlebars configurable via the CA?
Ah good questions. It's a direct tap to your battery voltage, so if you want to run a 6V or 12V device you'd hook up a DC-DC to the power plug on the CA. If you're light has a wide ranging input range that includes the pack voltage then it can plug in directly.

I'm a pretty big fan in the idea distributing the pack Vcc directly for powering peripherals like lights, rather than having separate 12V converters and low voltage busses scattered about. Problem with having a converter on board is that you are then constrained in wattage. If you decide a 20W DC-DC, then people with a 25W lighting system won't be able to use it, while people with a 1W light or no lights at all are paying for a much larger DC-DC than they need. If you distribute power at pack voltage and have each device with it's own appropriately sized internal DC-DC, then there is no need/expense of a converter, and no limit (other than the wire gauge) on how many devices you can hook up.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by ohzee » Mar 27 2012 11:04am

I love the new updates cant wait until I can buy one.

Here's to hoping you put up some more videos of your travels to China and to see cell_man.. I very much enjoyed
all the other videos I have seen.

Great job doing things right.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2012 11:20am

Trackman417 wrote: Haha one question that comes to mind is does this new CA lag when it senses that one of the inputs has exceeded its max value? Or does it just not allow any of the values to be over shot? When I set the CA to not exceed a certain limit it will go over that limit for a brief second or two and then it will adjust the throttle correctly. Would the case be different with this new one?
This requires a long answer to go in detail, but the short answer is that if the CA's output is directly controlling the throttle input of the controller, then there is almost no overshoot. An output change on the CA is almost instantly translated by the controller (unless your controller has a response lag). The CA V3 really lends itself to this type of wiring, with a separate and dedicated throttle input line.

In the CA V2, most of the time it is hooked up as a "throttle over-ride" device, where the user's throttle goes directly to the controller instead of to the CA. In that arrangement, the CA has no idea what voltage the users throttle position is set at when it senses a limit being exceeded. So all it can do is start off at the full output voltage (ITermMax), and ramp its way downwards until it sees that it is having an effect at reducing power. So if your throttle is at 2V and you suddenly exceed a limit, the CA has to ramp down from ITermMax (say ~4V) down to 2V before anything can happen, and in that time period there is usually an overshoot. There is simply no way for the CA to know that it could have immediately jumped to 2V before it can start doing a more gradual regulation.

When the CA itself IS the throttle, not just a throttle over-ride, then in the above scenario the CA's output is already at 2V when it sees the limit exceeded. And so there is no latency for a change in the CA's output to change the current draw in the controller. Hopefully that makes sense.

So if you hooked up a V3 CA in throttle over-ride mode, it would be the same behaviour with overshoot, but as a direct throttle control it would be instant.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2012 11:38am

methods wrote: We are in the middle of implementing a wireless IR temperature sensor that can be mounted to the rear drop aiming at the motor. We have a tiny black box with an arduino nano shield that translates the I2C coming out of the IR sensor... which we initially intended to use to directly retard the throttle.... Now it looks like we can just scale this signal and PWM it out to your RTD input as a direct control voltage. The CA will read it just like an RTD input - but now folks wont have to open their motors up to have temperature protection.
This will be good :-)
That's an awesome idea Methods! Indeed knowing both the motor surface temperature and the rate of change of surface temp, you should be able to do a decent prediction on the core temperature inside the hub. The results would be very different for when the hub is moving vs. still since convective cooling goes up like an order of magnitude with air flow, but if there's an IR temp sensor pointing at the motor there can just as well be an optical tachometer to let you know if it's spinning. Hey and if you have amassed some amount of data on the internal hub temperatures under moving conditions, this would be really useful to me for making a more realistic "over-temp" predictor on the simulator too.

Yes just filter the PWM and send a voltage signal to the V3 CA, it will both display the temperature to the user and also look after the throttle rollback. It's like the two projects were made for each other :-)
Keep up the good work -methods
You too, -Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Availability Dates

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2012 12:18pm

gensem wrote:Can you give us an aproximated ETA Justin?
Great Job!
Yes indeed. So the availability situation is this: We have about 30 additional V3 CA boards already soldered up in Vancouver, but they all still require some rework as we've realized the need to change a few component values around. Sometime in the next 7-10 days we'll be able complete the assembly and make the 30 pcs available for beta testers. A that point I'll post the details here on how interested people can sign up! If the 30 pieces fly out the door and some people are left disappointed, then we could do a few more mini batches like that every couple weeks.

For us the main time consuming issue is preparing the cable wiring harnesses, so the more beta testers can look after soldering up accessory wires to the PCB themselves then the easier it will be to get small runs done.

The first full scale production batch and general availability is about 8-10 weeks from now, barring no unforeseen parts supply issues. Really hoping that everything on that front goes smoothly since I'm as excited to see this move forwards as you are.

-Justin
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by gensem » Mar 27 2012 12:29pm

Sign me up for one beta unit Justin, I ll make sure to test it over 9999w and see if the 5 digit figures are working properly :mrgreen:
Justin we really appreciate what you did!

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Doctorbass » Mar 27 2012 12:46pm

Guys,

Dont forget that about IR temp sensor, the measured temp must be a mat surface.. I mean if you try measuring silver paint or gloss paint aluminum ( low emissivity) the IR reading will be wrong. The emissivity of the material you measure must be good.

IR will reflect on many metal part just like a mirror so the temp you measure could be the temp o fthe reflected object thru the surface you point on... ex, if you try to measure a bare aluminum plate that is at ambiant and that you have your fbody that is in the direct incidense of that aluminum plate and the IR thermometer, you will measure your body temperature..

Best with Ir temp sensor is to have mat painted surface.. or for low temp measurement, a black electrical tape can do the job.

I see many person measuring their motor temp with Ir temp sensor.. :? .. I think we must be informet about the possible error reading we can get!: :wink:
When IR thermometers are used to measure surface temperature they can potentially sense all three kinds of energy, therefore all thermometers have to be adjusted to read Emitted energy only. Measuring errors are often caused by IR energy being reflected by light sources.

Other units have a fixed, pre-set Emissivity of 0.95, which is the Emissivity value for most organic materials and painted or oxidized surfaces. If you are using a thermometer with a fixed Emissivity to measure the surface temperature of a shiny object you can compensate by covering the surface to be measured with masking tape or flat black paint.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2012 1:32pm

hillzofvalp wrote: It would be epic if we cold program the CA To change the watts limit on the fly based on speed. That would solve a lot of the instant wheelie problems at low speed with a high power setup. I suppose it would have to be implemented in a safe way so that to arent suddenly launched when you are on a borderline limit. Maybe a buffer if some sort would be appropriate... Or maybe like this:
A watts limit based on speed _is_ basically a torque limit! Which is what me and Adrian were discussing a few posts back. Doing it this way (as opposed to discrete power limit steps as you suggest) would achieve what you are suggesting and would be the smoothest approach for sure..
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by el_walto » Mar 27 2012 1:54pm

I realize this is not a feature request thread, but I'd really like this feature.

Switch on the fly between 2 configs. For example
Mode 1:
500W (at the wheel output???) max 32km/h max
Mode 2:
9999W max 999km/h max.

I never have used the left button on the CA, maybe it could be used for this.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Mar 27 2012 2:01pm

ohzee wrote:Here's to hoping you put up some more videos of your travels to China and to see cell_man.. I very much enjoyed
all the other videos I have seen.
Well I'm not much one to take videos but I did try to get a few shots of me and Cell_Man riding on the local streets. Somehow his rear wheel and right foot managed to vanish and I grew an extra pair of arms! Silly camera.
Ride with Paul.jpg
Ride with Paul.jpg (40.41 KiB) Viewed 5365 times

My first long distance ride experience with proportional torque assist pedalec mode was really pleasant. After 60km, no sore wrist! On the long stretches when you are up to speed, the connection between the leg and the motor power was direct and instant, and even though I had a manual throttle I felt a huge disinclination to use it. It was really nice just to regulate the power based on how hard I was pedalling. So to all the people who used to tell us how they wanted a system like BionX, and I would say what's wrong with a throttle? now I finally get it!

However, the behaviour at low speeds in stop and go traffic conditions still needs some tweaking for optimization. Part of the problem is that the particular controller on this ebike has a very slow throttle response (about 2 full seconds to go from 0 to 100%), meaning that there was always some initial lag before the assist would first catch up when you start pedalling. And at the other end I also need to make it a bit snappier to shut off the output when you stop the pedals. It surprised me how often I'd need to go from accelerate to stop to accelerate as various obstacles came and went, and you notice if the motor carries on even for the tiniest bit when you are trying to stop. Having ebrake cutoffs wired up would have really helped here I suppose too. I tended to squeeze the brakes even while my legs were still moving.

In any case this does get back to my favorite aspect of the torque sensor, which is that at the end of the trip you get to see average the human power stats:
Avg Human Watts.jpg
Avg Human Watts.jpg (13.42 KiB) Viewed 5365 times
267 watt-hours from me. About 485 watt-hours from the battery pack. Figure ~75% average motor efficiency at that means I did a good 42% of the work on the return trip.
I'm sure with the setups on ES we'll see lots of people posting more like a 5-10% leg to motor watt-hour ratio ;-)
Currently recovering from the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with Grin all-axle front hub, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah Cellman triangle pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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1JohnFoster   1 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by 1JohnFoster » Mar 27 2012 10:25pm

Hi Justin,

Congrats! Looks very well thought out, all those features carefully packed in.

Does it protect the pack by dropping the output throttle to keep pack voltage above a minimum?

Can it be programmed to "bog" the output throttle when it estimates low remaining capacity, say the last ~25%. So that idiots like me who drive along going "wheeeeee" and ignore all gauges will get seat of the pants feedback that I'm running out of juice?

- John

el_walto   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by el_walto » Mar 27 2012 10:52pm

1JohnFoster wrote:Hi Justin,

Congrats! Looks very well thought out, all those features carefully packed in.

Does it protect the pack by dropping the output throttle to keep pack voltage above a minimum?

Can it be programmed to "bog" the output throttle when it estimates low remaining capacity, say the last ~25%. So that idiots like me who drive along going "wheeeeee" and ignore all gauges will get seat of the pants feedback that I'm running out of juice?

- John
The current CA already has this feature. Set the LVC to slightly higher than you want it to drop to.

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Arlo1 » Mar 27 2012 11:11pm

Wow great job Justin!
My Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
My YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
RC and most types of Lithium batteries you MUST know your individual cell voltages charging and discharging.
Don't keep them were you cant afford smoke or fire!
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

Erikjan   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Erikjan » Mar 28 2012 3:56am

dodjob wrote:
justin_le wrote:
dodjob wrote:Really nice improvements there! :)
In Europe we have the legal possibility to have a "push/start-help" 'til 6Km/h (without the PAS signal) after this speed a PAS signal is needed to reach "full" speed. Any infos If this could be inplemented or if it eventually already the case? ^^
Yes, at present I have almost the opposite. There is a "Start Speed" setting which gives a minimum speed that you need to attain before there is any output power to the motor.
Start Speed.jpg
This is there mostly for sensorless RC type setups that have issues with starting from a dead stop. There's no reason not to have a "PAS Threshold Speed" that requires pedalling above a certain speed but allows throttle only power below that. I'll probably fit this setting in with the PAS setup menu, but haven't implemented it yet.

Is it only germany that has this legislation passed or is it europe wide?

-Justin
In holland they sell original bikes with the 6km/h mode too.
They tell me it is for old people how kan not pull a bike when walking.
But i like it because my pas sensor need a olmost compleet revolution before i get power from the motor.
If you can add it to the CA it will be great. A mode where te throttle work @6km/h and from from 6 to topspeed when paddeling.

sorry for bad spell english is not my language

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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by johnrobholmes » Mar 28 2012 9:03am

See if you can get Ben to let go of a v3 to me, I needs it for testing! I don't need wires attached.

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