Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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methods   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by methods » Oct 21 2012 5:11pm

Ready for testing...
2012-10-21 14.57.55.jpg
2012-10-21 14.57.55.jpg (214.46 KiB) Viewed 3999 times
-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Oct 23 2012 12:57pm

Some strange behavior - anyone else seeing this?

When I set the throttle control mode to "Current", current limit set to 99amps,
ThrI -> Cntrl Mode
{ [Pass-thru] | Current | Speed | Disabled }

the amps cutoff bounces back and forth between "A" and "a" on the "awsvt" diagnostics/debugging screen. This happens whether the bike is at rest or moving, zero or partial throttle, etc., and at pretty much any amp reading/output.

lollandster reported similar behavior in this post: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 60#p649873

It behaves this way while throttle is in [Current] control mode. When I set the CA to [Pass-thru] control mode, the "a" stops bouncing. I own two CAv3's with firmware B19 loaded - both behave exactly the same.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Oct 24 2012 1:02am

MattyCiii wrote: It behaves this way while throttle is in [Current] control mode. When I set the CA to [Pass-thru] control mode, the "a" stops bouncing. I own two CAv3's with firmware B19 loaded - both behave exactly the same.
Hi Matty, this is exactly as it should be. With your throttle set as a current throttle mode, you are effectively dialing your current limit from 0A up to 99A (or whatever your AMax setting is). When your throttle throttle is off, you are setting the current limit right down to 0A, so any time the CA sees even a hair more than 0A it would set the current limit flag letting you know what's up. At part throttle, it is the same thing, if you are commanding say 10A, then as the current jitters above and below 10A you will see the limit flag flash accordingly.

-Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lollandster » Oct 24 2012 1:20am

For some reason I had missed what awsvt actually was. Please confirm that I've got it right this time:
A- Current limit (Amps)
W- Power limit (Watts)
S - Speed limit (kpm/mph)
V - Voltage limit? LVC?
T - Temperature limit

Lower case = output not limited
Upper case = output limited.
Disclaimer: I know nothing.
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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Oct 24 2012 3:50am

lollandster wrote:For some reason I had missed what awsvt actually was. Please confirm that I've got it right this time:
A- Current limit (Amps)
W- Power limit (Watts)
S - Speed limit (kpm/mph)
V - Voltage limit? LVC?
T - Temperature limit

Lower case = output not limited
Upper case = output limited.
Indeed, that's exactly right. There are a few fault/limit flags that aren't thrown, such as the minimum start speed limit, and the throttle overvoltage limit, but the 5 main ones are shown as described. -Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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VRdublove   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by VRdublove » Oct 24 2012 5:12pm

Has anyone here successfully run the V3 with a Castle HV160 ESC?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Oct 24 2012 8:08pm

justin_le wrote:
MattyCiii wrote: It behaves this way while throttle is in [Current] control mode. When I set the CA to [Pass-thru] control mode, the "a" stops bouncing. I own two CAv3's with firmware B19 loaded - both behave exactly the same.
Hi Matty, this is exactly as it should be...
Thanks Justin!
I'm sure glad "there's no such thing as a dumb question" because otherwise, mine sure would have been! :oops:
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

MattyCiii   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by MattyCiii » Oct 24 2012 8:25pm

VRdublove wrote:Has anyone here successfully run the V3 with a Castle HV160 ESC?
Yes, I do.

1) You have to set throttle output mode to RC Pulse.
2) I bought and use the "Shunt-RC" from here: http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_rc.php.
3) You'll have to open the CA and solder the yellow wire in the 6-pin controller JST connector to the +5v on the throttle pad shown here: http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3.php

I had a PM conversation with RatKing who really helped me out. Forgive the loss of formatting, the whole conversation is posted here:
Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
Sent: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:26 pm
by MattyCiii

Thanks for the response!
It's been bugging me all day. I'm at work so have no time/test equipment, and won't be able to check till tomorrow night. You're right - I need to go back to the setup that worked, then move forward from there. If I get things working I think I'll get the multimeter out and test all the DC voltaves (e.g., with the "+5" source) with the 6s battery, then see if anything changes with the 8s.

It's just disappointing to have had it all going, then with few changes to have nothing at all. I guess I have to set my mind to the fact that I need to slow down, dive into the documents, and prepare to do some methodical troubleshooting - test all connections, etc.

Thanks again,
Matt
Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
Sent: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:58 pm
by Ratking

Hello

I have re done all of my wires, so I don't remember the color code anymore. From where to where does the yellow wire go?
I don't see how it could work on the bench but then suddenly not work on the bike?
Have you checked all the necessary software on the ca?

You should have one wire from ThO(throttle out) to the signal wire of the hv160.
You also need ground and +5v.

Just control that you have that set up right, and check the mapping on the throttle in and out on the ca. Remember that the hv160 need under a certain pulse train on the input for start up. If the throttle is too high it wont let you start.

Please give me more details, because its hard to figure out if its hardware or software.
You could start with the 6s battery and see if it works then. If it does, I would see if everything was set up right in the software.
Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
Sent: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:49 pm
by MattyCiii

Thaks for the reply. I went out of time awhile and could not modify the bike. I'm back, bench tested the CA - worked fine, went for the real world test - fail. Details here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&hilit=throttle+pad&start=510#p617339

I wonder if I set things up the same way you did.
To confirm - you soldered the yellow wire to the +5v on the "dedicated throttle input" secion shown in the first post of this thread, yes?

Please let me know, THANKS,
Matt
Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
Sent: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:13 am
by MattyCiii

Thank you!!
This is my first build and my grasp of these things is shakey. But what you said all makes sense, and I agree - it's probably the best way to do things since I'll be routing the signal wire from the CA to the controller anyway, why not have the CA provide + and -

I'm using an Astro 3210, it worked rock solid with a cheap $11 servo tester from ebay/Hong Kong, so hopefully no twitchy with the CA. I'm re-reading the entire CA V3 beta now, it is so much easier to understand something you have in hand than trying to picture it in your mind.

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it!
~Matt
Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
Sent: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:26 am
by Ratking

Hello

First of, I don't know if there is a better way of doing this, but as I tried you will need; ground, +5v and signal for the controller to work. Some people will say that you only need ground and signal, I tried it, but no cigar.

Since the ca have common ground, you can use the black wire, pin 2 as ground for the controller, Green, pin 6 is used as throttle signal, and I used the yellow wire as +5v. I had to re solder the yellow wire to the ca board. I used the throttle input +5v one. It should deliver enough current for our need. I use two controllers and have not had any problems.
I don't know what kind of motor you will use, but I would suggest to set the throttle ramp up time to 250-300. Default is 500 and it was very nervous and twitchy.

If there are problems, just ask. I don't mind helping if I can.


Henning
Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release
Sent: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:45 pm
by MattyCiii

Subject: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Ratking wrote:
Thanks to Justin, I got my setup working last night.
I'm using the new ca with a hv160 and a Turnigy 80-10 130kv. I have not tried it on the road yet, still waiting for the final parts, but I can tell that the ca will be mandatory in every build I make.
Both the current and speed control worked flawless at the bench, only complain will be a short throttle range. In speed mode, the motor rpm will be max long before full throttle is applied.
I have the pulses set to min 0.99 ms and max 2.00 ms. Tried different variations, but with no luck. I want to try it with a heavy load before I make any assumptions, I will soon find out.


Hello I recently received my V3 CA preview, and HV160. I have the HV-160 operating off a servo tester just fine. Can you tell me which CA wires connect to the 160? I'm guessing pins 3, 4 and 6 of the JST-6-M (from here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&start=420#p601462), but I don't know which goes to what color. What works for you?
Thank you,
Matt
In the end its not a lot of work, but required a bunch of thinking for me.
1st build: Dahon Jetstream folding bike. Quick, reliable, capable of 32mph. Light enough to lift, folds for easy transport by car/bus/train.
2nd build: RC powered 2009 Norco A-Line. Top speed 39mph. Built like a tank, it's resistant to Boston potholes, can stop on a dime, easily goes up/down curbs when necessary.
3rd build (just started): Scratch build ultimate utility bike. Based on a common power module using a NuVinci left side freewheel.

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cruzxia   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cruzxia » Oct 25 2012 2:47am

Justin
Using V19
I have finally hooked up the pas through throttle.
I like the fact that you can set the input and output levels to get the throttle to start the motor as you turn the throttle.

I did find that the throttle is slow to respond compared to the direct throttle, I adjusted the ramp up, but it stayed slow. I also noticed that it ramped down slow, I have yet to adjust this.

I do like to wheelie my bike, with the slow ramp it is much harder to get the wheel to lift. The ramp down I nearly went over backwards as it did not shut off immediately. :o

I think that part of the problem is that the CA is winding back the throttle in anticipation of the power limit, to prevent over shooting the setting.
In direct mode I had the power limit set at 1800w if you turn the throttle you get full controller power for a second (about 2500w) and then it ramps back to 1800w.
In pass through mode it is already limiting the throttle at 1600w in anticipation of the 1800w limit. I increased the power limit to 2500w as a test, but it still felt sluggish.

I did like the delayed power limit in the direct mode, it gave you the ability to turn the throttle and get a power boost to out of the way of danger, without having to have the current limiting set high enough to burn out the motor. In direct mode I got about 1 second of full power.

:idea: It would be good if you could do this in the pass through throttle mode, Just have an adjustable delay. It is like turbo lag in reverse.

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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Oct 25 2012 6:45pm

cruzxia wrote:Justin
Using V19
I have finally hooked up the pas through throttle.
I like the fact that you can set the input and output levels to get the throttle to start the motor as you turn the throttle.

I did find that the throttle is slow to respond compared to the direct throttle, I adjusted the ramp up, but it stayed slow. I also noticed that it ramped down slow, I have yet to adjust this.
Hey Cruzxia, if you have your throttle ramps both set to 999 but you still see a less than instant up and down ramp on the actual output, then it could again be related to some of the other feedback gains (ie. AGain, WGain, and IntSGain) that are limiting the output change, and finding which value is causing the delay on the output and increasing it will help. This won't be necessary in the Beta20 code, but let me know with this one if that makes a difference.
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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cruzxia   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cruzxia » Oct 25 2012 8:46pm

I have been testing different values for the gains.
I have now set the throttle ramps both to 999
The AGain To 50 and the WGain to 5
It has improved the response of the throttle and the bike. Watching the throttle in the display screen, the output still only goes to about 2.5v under hard acceleration, so the controller only gives about 60% power. I think in direct throttle mode it gets the full 4.2v and then ramps back down to 2.5v as the CA limit kicks in.

Note: I did put a 1K resistor on the green CA control line in anticipation of connecting the pas through throttle. As I was using it in direct mode, it would have dampened the affect of the CA when it was trying to limit the power. It defiantly still limited the power, but perhaps not as abruptly as it would without the resistor.

Is it possible to alter the firmware so that you don’t need the diode in direct connection mode? You could set the port as an input when not limiting the throttle. That way you would not need the diode and you could monitor the throttle voltage via the input. It would then be easy for me to compare the two setups, as I can just swap plugs on the throttle line. At present I have to move the green wire from TH0 to THd

I think that the motor actually ran cooler because it accelerated faster, the power was on for a shorter amount of time. Eg going from 20 – 30 kph with an inrush or say 2400w before ramping down to 1800 it takes about 2 seconds, and then power down to 400w to maintain speed.
In past through mode it limits at 1800w so the acceleration is slower, taking 4 seconds to achieve the same speed change.
Adding up the power 4200w vs 7200w for the same speed change = warmer motor.


Speed Limit Test
I have also tested the speed limiting. With the stock CA settings it was surging violently. I think it is due to the high torque motor in a light bike. This bike dose accelerate fast.
I revised the IntSGain down to 40 and the DSGain down to 50 and it smoothed out the surging. I did note that it takes a while for the speed limit to kick in. E.g I set it at 19kph for the test, when I accelerate it over shoots to 36kph and then shuts off the throttle until it drops to about 16kph, then it speeds up and settles around 18.9kph.

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Brettster   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Brettster » Oct 26 2012 8:43am

Hi everyone, i have a question about throttle settings. I connected my new v3 ca today and when i pulled the throttle my wheel spun very slowly, i have a std chinese hall sensor throttle can anybody specify what the throttle settings should be.
Thanks, Brettster

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hjns   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Oct 26 2012 1:12pm

Hi Brettster,

Start reading the thread. Telektek did a very very nice writeup here how to connect everything and what everything does. Also, with the very limited information that you provide, it can be pretty much anything from battery problems to wrong rdshunt. This CA is so advanced, you better start reading now.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Oct 26 2012 2:03pm

Thanks hjns, appreciated... :)

Unofficial Setup Notes are in this post. These are temporary 'best effort' notes for very basic installation until Justin can get the Grin site fleshed out.
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Brettster   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Brettster » Oct 29 2012 7:20am

What is the latest firmware available for the v3 ca .

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hjns   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Oct 29 2012 7:29am

Again, start reading the thread. Teklektik even posted the link directly to what you now are asking for.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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Brettster   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Brettster » Nov 01 2012 3:41am

Hi everyone, I am running windows vista, when I plugged in the cable that came with the CA, windows said drivers failed to install, anyone know where I can get some software drivers to enable the com ports on the garage computer.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Cheers,

Brett.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 01 2012 9:55am

Brettster wrote: I am running windows vista, ... anyone know where I can get some software drivers to enable the com ports on the garage computer.
Justin provides firmware update instructions as well as a link to the programming cable manufacturer on the Grin Tech V3 page. The cable and the USB-TTL converter chips it uses are manufactured by FTDI. Please see the FTDI download site for VCP (Virtual COM Port) drivers for various OSes.

The FTDI OS Support page calls out Windows Vista as a supported OS. It also mentions an FTDI document, AN_107 Advanced Driver Options, however, for this application the FTDI Windows drivers will work as installed without any manual or advanced configuration.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by miro13car » Nov 04 2012 4:57pm

I cannot not find that in that thread.
It is about speedometer.
As we know CA can measure speed.
But I see a problem with CA when it comes to odometer function.

"TotKm" or "TotMi" if you are in USA are registered in Lifecycle Statistic screen #7.
The problem is that you cannot enter any number of kilometers/miles into "totkm" or "totmi" ,
km and miles are counted ONLY from zero when CA is installed.
Even in tiny, cheap cycle computers you can enter any number of miles into odometer,
you can enter actual millage of your ebike at the time of installation of new cycle computer.
When I buy CA for used ebike , already with millage you would like to enter actual millage into CA.
I do not find it possible with CA.
It is kind of lacking to be able to see speed but not actual millage of vehicle.
Of course on gasoline car you don't change odometer reading but CA is totally different, it is add-on to existing ebike.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 04 2012 6:51pm

miro13car wrote:I cannot not find that in that thread.
It is about speedometer.
As we know CA can measure speed.
But I see a problem with CA when it comes to odometer function.

The problem is that you cannot enter any number of kilometers/miles into "totkm" or "totmi" ,
km and miles are counted ONLY from zero when CA is installed.
The odometer preset is a setup parameter available since the initial V3B12 release. Please review explanations of all Setup parameters in the most recent firmware on the Grin Tech V3 web page:
Setup Menu Details for Beta19 Firmware
2. Setup Spdometer
d. TotDist: Lets you pre-load the odometer.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by miro13car » Nov 04 2012 8:49pm

apparently mine is V2.3
belive or not but there is nothing about what version is it, anywhere in paper manual I got with CA.
I simply belived I had the one discussed here.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Nov 04 2012 9:08pm

I believe you can also set the total distance in v2 units.

Also, the version number appears on the screen when powering up.

Jason.
Ignorance can be solved, stupid is forever

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 04 2012 9:58pm

miro13car wrote:apparently mine is V2.3
belive or not but there is nothing about what version is it, anywhere in paper manual I got with CA.
I simply belived I had the one discussed here.
Here is a link to the V2.23 Manual available on the Grin Tech CA page. Please refer to the cover page for the device version and section 8.16 for a brief discussion of preloading the odometer setting in the Advanced Setup Menu.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by miro13car » Nov 04 2012 10:22pm

there is NO CA version on the cover on USER MANUAL,
YOU DON'T believe me? I already wrote.

the Cycle Analist
Large Screen Edition
User Manual
that is on cover page you want me to look at?
no version

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 04 2012 10:38pm

miro13car wrote:there is NO CA version on the cover on USER MANUAL,
YOU DON'T believe me? I already wrote.

the Cycle Analist
Large Screen Edition
User Manual
that is on cover page you want me to look at?
no version
My mistake. The 2nd page of the PDF - page 1 of the manual.
caUserManualPage1_v2.23.gif
caUserManualPage1_v2.23.gif (20.72 KiB) Viewed 4759 times
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