Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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hjns   100 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Oct 29 2012 7:29am

Again, start reading the thread. Teklektik even posted the link directly to what you now are asking for.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Brettster » Nov 01 2012 3:41am

Hi everyone, I am running windows vista, when I plugged in the cable that came with the CA, windows said drivers failed to install, anyone know where I can get some software drivers to enable the com ports on the garage computer.

Any help would be much appreciated.


Cheers,

Brett.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 01 2012 9:55am

Brettster wrote: I am running windows vista, ... anyone know where I can get some software drivers to enable the com ports on the garage computer.
Justin provides firmware update instructions as well as a link to the programming cable manufacturer on the Grin Tech V3 page. The cable and the USB-TTL converter chips it uses are manufactured by FTDI. Please see the FTDI download site for VCP (Virtual COM Port) drivers for various OSes.

The FTDI OS Support page calls out Windows Vista as a supported OS. It also mentions an FTDI document, AN_107 Advanced Driver Options, however, for this application the FTDI Windows drivers will work as installed without any manual or advanced configuration.
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miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by miro13car » Nov 04 2012 4:57pm

I cannot not find that in that thread.
It is about speedometer.
As we know CA can measure speed.
But I see a problem with CA when it comes to odometer function.

"TotKm" or "TotMi" if you are in USA are registered in Lifecycle Statistic screen #7.
The problem is that you cannot enter any number of kilometers/miles into "totkm" or "totmi" ,
km and miles are counted ONLY from zero when CA is installed.
Even in tiny, cheap cycle computers you can enter any number of miles into odometer,
you can enter actual millage of your ebike at the time of installation of new cycle computer.
When I buy CA for used ebike , already with millage you would like to enter actual millage into CA.
I do not find it possible with CA.
It is kind of lacking to be able to see speed but not actual millage of vehicle.
Of course on gasoline car you don't change odometer reading but CA is totally different, it is add-on to existing ebike.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 04 2012 6:51pm

miro13car wrote:I cannot not find that in that thread.
It is about speedometer.
As we know CA can measure speed.
But I see a problem with CA when it comes to odometer function.

The problem is that you cannot enter any number of kilometers/miles into "totkm" or "totmi" ,
km and miles are counted ONLY from zero when CA is installed.
The odometer preset is a setup parameter available since the initial V3B12 release. Please review explanations of all Setup parameters in the most recent firmware on the Grin Tech V3 web page:
Setup Menu Details for Beta19 Firmware
2. Setup Spdometer
d. TotDist: Lets you pre-load the odometer.
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miro13car   1 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by miro13car » Nov 04 2012 8:49pm

apparently mine is V2.3
belive or not but there is nothing about what version is it, anywhere in paper manual I got with CA.
I simply belived I had the one discussed here.

Diamondback   10 kW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Nov 04 2012 9:08pm

I believe you can also set the total distance in v2 units.

Also, the version number appears on the screen when powering up.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 04 2012 9:58pm

miro13car wrote:apparently mine is V2.3
belive or not but there is nothing about what version is it, anywhere in paper manual I got with CA.
I simply belived I had the one discussed here.
Here is a link to the V2.23 Manual available on the Grin Tech CA page. Please refer to the cover page for the device version and section 8.16 for a brief discussion of preloading the odometer setting in the Advanced Setup Menu.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by miro13car » Nov 04 2012 10:22pm

there is NO CA version on the cover on USER MANUAL,
YOU DON'T believe me? I already wrote.

the Cycle Analist
Large Screen Edition
User Manual
that is on cover page you want me to look at?
no version

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 04 2012 10:38pm

miro13car wrote:there is NO CA version on the cover on USER MANUAL,
YOU DON'T believe me? I already wrote.

the Cycle Analist
Large Screen Edition
User Manual
that is on cover page you want me to look at?
no version
My mistake. The 2nd page of the PDF - page 1 of the manual.
caUserManualPage1_v2.23.gif
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Nov 05 2012 2:00am

Diamondback wrote:I believe you can also set the total distance in v2 units.
I can in mine, which is V2.23, in the advanced setup section, under Set TotDist, IIRC.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lollandster » Nov 06 2012 1:59am

I just tried the B20 software and I noticed a strange behavior. When I give full throttle with the wheel raised from the ground the CA will cut power for half a second just before reaching full speed. There are no limit flags raised that I can see.
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justin_le   10 MW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Nov 06 2012 4:20am

lollandster wrote:I just tried the B20 software
That was quick! I just barely uploaded it.
and I noticed a strange behavior. When I give full throttle with the wheel raised from the ground the CA will cut power for half a second just before reaching full speed. There are no limit flags raised that I can see.
Yes, that is actually the rapid acceleration of the wheel that is causing the speed limit to cut out, due to the differential speed gain. What happens is that the CA sees that the vehicle is quickly accelerating towards the speed limit, and even if it hasn't reached it it yet it is pre-emptively scaling back the throttle so that you don't overshoot. With a person on the bike and a normal amount of inertia, this works great. But with the wheel off the ground, then it accelerates up to speed so fast that this kicks in even well below the actual speed limit point. Once the wheel is no longer accelerating, then it will hold the speed fine.

Are you running the speedo signal from hall signals on a direct drive motor or with a magnet and sensor?

-Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Nov 06 2012 4:34am

lollandster wrote: There are no limit flags raised that I can see.
I should also mention, it's tricker to flag this condition than it might seem. So at the moment, the speed limit flag will only get set high if you are actually going faster than the set speed, even though there may be some limiting going on before then due to the acceleration. It's on the agenda to try and set that flag even if your not at the full speed, I just haven't found a clever way to do it within the existing code framework. And I didn't think anyone would pick up on it quite so fast!

-Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by lollandster » Nov 06 2012 5:46am

justin_le wrote:Are you running the speedo signal from hall signals on a direct drive motor or with a magnet and sensor?
It's the DPS version so no hall signals. I was out trying the new software on the street just now and you are right, it isn't a problem when I'm riding the bike.
justin_le wrote:That was quick! I just barely uploaded it.
http://ebike.ca/drainbrain/ is indexable, I guess I timed it pretty good when I checked it.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Nov 06 2012 6:31pm

cruzxia wrote: Is it possible to alter the firmware so that you don’t need the diode in direct connection mode? You could set the port as an input when not limiting the throttle. That way you would not need the diode and you could monitor the throttle voltage via the input. It would then be easy for me to compare the two setups, as I can just swap plugs on the throttle line. At present I have to move the green wire from TH0 to THd
That is one of my biggest regrets about the circuit design was not to make it so that I could tri-state the throttle output. Had I done this it would be a lot easier to accomodate people who just want the CA3 as a monitoring device or as a throttle pull-down device. If the signal was just coming from the PIC pin directly that would be doable in software, but the signal goes through an op-amp buffer circuit to produce a much stiffer source and to further isolate the micro from the outside world, making it not so easy. It would require adding some analog switches to flip the circuitry around, and those would require more digital I/O controls from the micro of which there aren't any left.
I have also tested the speed limiting. With the stock CA settings it was surging violently. I think it is due to the high torque motor in a light bike. This bike dose accelerate fast.
I revised the IntSGain down to 40 and the DSGain down to 50 and it smoothed out the surging. I did note that it takes a while for the speed limit to kick in. E.g I set it at 19kph for the test, when I accelerate it over shoots to 36kph and then shuts off the throttle until it drops to about 16kph, then it speeds up and settles around 18.9kph.
36 kph is a lot of overshoot! I did the initial stock tuning with a 750 watt motor setup where the initial overshoot is more like 2-3 kph at most. I would try increasing the DSGain until it starts becoming jittery when the speed has settled, and then back off a bit, and see if that tames the initial response. What is your 0-30 acceleration time like anyways?

-Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
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Beta 20 Firmware Updates

Post by justin_le » Nov 06 2012 8:15pm

So as has already been discovered, the CA3 Beta20 firmware is finished and available here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3.php
At the bottom of the page is the list and description of all items in the setup menu.

There are a lot of changes as I'm trying to get this as close as possible to the look and feel of the first release code.

1) Mode Presets: You can now have 3 different groups of CA limit settings stored on the device. So there is a new menu item for enabling, 1, 2, or 3 presets and naming each of them as well.
Preset_Menu.jpg
Preset_Menu.jpg (19.46 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
For the names, there's a selection to choose from including default, economy, assist, street, offroad, unlimited, and Power, and if you have other suggestions I could fit a few more in for sure:
Preset_Asst.jpg
Preset_Asst.jpg (17.42 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
Preset_OR.jpg
Preset_OR.jpg (18.32 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
The settings which are linked to each preset are those that make sense to change for different operating modes. This includes the speed, current, and power limits, the throttle function and ramp rate, the auxilliary potentiometer function, and the PAS assist mode. It does not include the hardware settings (ex, #poles, wheel size etc), the feedback gains (those should be tuned once to match the hardware), or the calibration or display preferences, all of which will be the same across all presets.

2) Preset Hot Swaps: While you can change between chosen mode presets through the setup menu, this can also be done on the fly at any point by pressing down the left button and then tapping on the right button to switch modes.
PresetSwap.jpg
PresetSwap.jpg (37.04 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
Similarly, if you press the right button and then tap on the left, you can swap between the different battery pack presets. In the Beta20 code there is also a 3rd "C" battery option for those with a collection of packs:
BattSwap.jpg
BattSwap.jpg (37.77 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
3) More "Disabled" Choices: There is a choice to disable the torque sensor if you don't have one connected so that you won't have garbage numbers for human watts etc., and there is also the ability to preset the gain value for a THUN sensor if that's what you are using, and then select "custom" if you want to specify the Nm/V directly.
TrqSens_Disabled.jpg
TrqSens_Disabled.jpg (19.68 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
TrqSens_Thun.jpg
TrqSens_Thun.jpg (18.28 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
4) Torque Offset: This was mentioned previously and is something that I've been really digging on recent test rides. Rather than having the proportional torque assistance engage right from 0 N-m, you can set a torque threshold that the rider has to apply to the pedals before it starts to kick in. So for me, when I am riding in PAS torque control mode I usually don't want any assistance if I'm only putting in like 100-150 watts. This achieves that, and then still allows for proportional boosting with higher levels of pedal torque. You really have to earn your assist wattage!
Trq_Asst_Offset.jpg
Trq_Asst_Offset.jpg (18.32 KiB) Viewed 5265 times

5) More Useful Menu Previews: I've tried to make all the content in the preview line of the setup menu as useful as possible. So for instance, with the speedometer setup, it computes your equivalent inch wheel diameter based on the mm circumference, and the arrow on the right toggles up or down depending on the state of the speedo input sensor.
Spdo_Menu.jpg
Spdo_Menu.jpg (22.1 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
Similarly, for the throttle and the auxiliary potentiometer, it not only shows the voltage on each of those pins but also the scaled value as a percentage between your min and max input points. So it is easy to very the actual limit range with different positions.
ThrotIn_Menu.jpg
ThrotIn_Menu.jpg (18.57 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
AuxPot_Menu.jpg
AuxPot_Menu.jpg (19.11 KiB) Viewed 5265 times
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 06 2012 8:40pm

Justin-
It's super to see the preset feature - thanks!

But in the spirit of always asking for More!:

My build uses the Vpot/CTRL option to select three different Power levels using Ctrl->AuxFunct=Power(W). However, with the advent of the presets, it would be very nice if this external switching could be extended to provide preset selection as an alternate option (e.g. Ctrl->AuxFunct=Preset ). Here the preset would be selected directly by determining the voltage on the Vpot pad. The voltage range Ctrl->MinAuxIn - Ctrl->MaxAuxIn might be divided into the same number of equally sized voltage bands as there are presets and a preset would be selected by the band in which Vpot fell.

For instance, if
Ctrl->MinAuxIn=0.5v
Ctrl->MaxAuxIn=3.5v
PrSt->Cnt={1,2,&3}


then the three equally sized selection bands would nominally be:
preset1 = [0.5 <= Vpot < 1.5v]
preset2 = [1.5 <= Vpot < 2.5v]
preset3 = [2.5 <= Vpot < 3.5v]


extending the top and bottom bands to include out-of-bound values 0-5v gives:
preset1 = [0.0 <= Vpot < 1.5v]
preset2 = [1.5 <= Vpot < 2.5v]
preset3 = [2.5 <= Vpot < 5.0v]


so Vpot={1v, 2v, 3v} would select presets 1, 2, or 3 respectively. In this example, a 3 preset selection switch could be fabricated using a standard on-off-on switch (or commercial LMH switch) and a simple resistor divider using low precision fixed resistors.

This would extend the preset feature to a 'touch-only' external switch that could safely be done at speed without releasing the bars or diverting eyes from the road - depending on the differences between presets, any single or group of settings would become candidates for external switch control.

Also, adding names to the list of preset names like {High, Medium Low, 1, 2, 3} would provide some generic selection options not so tightly bound to major operating modes or use cases.

Just a thought ;-)
Last edited by teklektik on Nov 07 2012 9:58am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Nov 06 2012 10:34pm

teklektik wrote: My build uses the Vpot/CTRL option to select three different Power levels using Ctrl->AuxFunct=Power(W). However, with the advent of the presets, it would be very nice if this external switching could be extended to provide preset selection as an alternate option (e.g. Ctrl->AuxFunct=Preset ). Here the preset would be selected directly by determining the voltage on the Vpot pad. The voltage range Ctrl->MinAuxIn - Ctrl->MaxAuxIn might be divided into the same number of equally sized number of voltage bands as there are presets and a preset would be selected by the band in which Vpot fell.
Well at least when you ask for more it is always well thought out ! The only funky thing about this is that I currently have the aux input function something that is independently set with each preset, so for this to work properly we'd need to change that so that the aux function was global to all 3. Otherwise you could change modes to a preset state that no longer responds to the Aux Input by changing presets. But I can't think of too many cases where say you would want the aux input change in function between modes, so maybe that's not so bad to reduce this to just one option for all 3 modes, and then enable preset selection from the aux input.

OK, I think I'll do it. The screen would definitely need to alert the rider of the mode change, but it's possible to do this without causing any interruption in the CA's operation or throttle output. And for making CA more OEM friendly this helps a lot since the 3 position toggle can easily be mounted on the bike chassis or handlebar.
Also, adding names to the list of preset names like {High, Medium Low, 1, 2, 3} would provide some generic selection options not so tightly bound to major operating modes or use cases.
Great point. The numbers 1,2 and 3 show up as a prefix to each name, but you're right that Hi-Med-Low make a lot of sense.

Also, there is a small something going on with the B20 firmware that if you are running a current or power throttle, the moment the throttle starts to engage you can feel a tiny kick before it then smoothly ramps up. It's subtle on normal powered ebikes but if you have something with lots of oomph it might be more pronounced, and I know just what's going on and will have it sorted in the next update.

-Justin
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

Opus the Poet   10 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Opus the Poet » Nov 06 2012 10:45pm

OK I'm sure i saw this somewhere in this thread but how much does swapping a V2CA for a V3CA and adding a Thun change the price of a 9C motor kit? I really don't feel like going through thousands of posts to find that one single post and reply.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 07 2012 2:36pm

justin_le wrote:OK, I think I'll do it.
Very cool -Thanks! It will be great to get rid of the annoying trimpots and be able to configure LMH style presets using the CA setup menus. Although the final implementation might differ, assuming the preliminary proposal above, the switch might be wired as:
externalPresetSwitch.gif
externalPresetSwitch.gif (3.64 KiB) Viewed 5210 times
With R1 = R2 = 4.7K I think this is the minimum implementation assuming settings of:
  • Ctrl->AuxFunct=Preset
    Ctrl->MinAuxIn=0.0v
    Ctrl->MaxAuxIn=5.0v
    PrSt->Cnt={1,2,&3}
This would work with the Grin Tech T-3Switch with the resistors positioned either across the CA PCB pads or across pins in the switch JST connector.
ebikesca-3-Position-Switch.jpg
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by justin_le » Nov 07 2012 6:38pm

Opus the Poet wrote:OK I'm sure i saw this somewhere in this thread but how much does swapping a V2CA for a V3CA and adding a Thun change the price of a 9C motor kit? I really don't feel like going through thousands of posts to find that one single post and reply.
This is not a sales thread so please send email to info@ebikes.ca for any questions like that.
Previously competed in the Suntrip race on a back to back tandem solar powered row/cycle trike. 550 watt solar roof, dual Grin All Axle hub motors, dual Phaserunner controllers, 12 LiGo batteries, and a whole wack of gear.

Now back in Vancouver learning to be a dad with my Big Dummy Frame (yes This One, thanks ES!) with GMAC 10T rear hub motor, Phaserunner controller, and 52V 19Ah EM3EV pack
My website: http://www.ebikes.ca
Please contact via email, info@ebikes.ca, rather than PMs, which are disabled

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cruzxia » Nov 09 2012 7:25pm

Justin

0-30 kph is 3.5 seconds, with it limited to 1800w
It is setup to provide 2300w for the first 0.5-1 second of throttle.
launching is hard as it wheel stands.

B20 issues
I setup Mode 1 & 2,
First thing is that the throttle worked in mode 2, but was not transfered to mode 1, (I am back using direct throttle, not pass through) and mode 1 went to pass through throttle after setting up 2 modes . This should not be part of the mode setting as the throttle input type should not alter.

I changed the throttle input in mode 1 to disabled, however it had no effect. The max throttle in mode 1 is limited to the Min throttle setting.
I think that it is in pas through mode even though it is disabled.

cruzxia

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by cruzxia » Nov 09 2012 9:20pm

Here is the throttle out images. You can see in mode 1 throttle out is limited to 0.80v
In Mode 2 it is normal set at 4.50v
135.jpg
This is mode 1
135.jpg (64.45 KiB) Viewed 5125 times
1352513753417.jpg
This is mode 2
1352513753417.jpg (60.56 KiB) Viewed 5125 times

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Nov 11 2012 12:58pm

Printable Setup Summary for CA v3B20

The setting summary for the newer v3B21 release is available here.
The setting summary for the previous v3B19 release is available here.
Unofficial basic setup notes are available here.
Please see the Grin Tech Site for a detailed explanation of Setup Parameters.

Printable versions for saving settings - tabular format for multiple presets (Portrait.PDF, Landscape.PDF, XLS):
CA_V3B20_Setup.zip
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Last edited by teklektik on Dec 23 2012 5:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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