Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 23 2012 6:30pm

Justin-
I just noticed that v3B21 can have a nasty wheel lurch on Trip Reset. This seems to vary in intensity - I guess I have been getting gentle ones with the bike on the ground and just didn't notice, but today I did a few resets on the stand and they were quite pronounced. At first it seemed that the lurch was worse when the reset button was held down longer, but that turned out not to be true - the intensity seems to be random...
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by onlineaddy » Dec 23 2012 8:00pm

Arlo1 wrote:I can't find any info on the output power jack...?? Volts? How many amps can it flow?

:EDIT found it lol.

Guess its not 12v ....
Would you provide the info for the benefit of other readers? Thanks.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Dec 23 2012 9:31pm

It's pack voltage.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 23 2012 10:33pm

The CA V3 DC power jack provides Vbatt via an auto-resetting 1A polyfuse (the brown flat square component on the lower left of the PCB). The positive jack lead is connected to the Vf pad near the lower edge of the PCB.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Dec 24 2012 3:12am

teklektik wrote:Justin-
I just noticed that v3B21 can have a nasty wheel lurch on Trip Reset. This seems to vary in intensity - I guess I have been getting gentle ones with the bike on the ground and just didn't notice, but today I did a few resets on the stand and they were quite pronounced. At first it seemed that the lurch was worse when the reset button was held down longer, but that turned out not to be true - the intensity seems to be random...
I have experienced the same. It is never so that the bike moves more than a cm, but it is clearly there. I don't find it a problem, and after 20-30 resets, it is acceptable for me.
Henk


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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 24 2012 3:34am

Maybe because CrazyBike2 is so heavy, I have not experienced that, and haven't tried it off ground.

However, I do get power lurches which are quite scary whenever I try to use any throttle mode other than PassThru (using B21). First application of any level of throttle gives a momentary surge that feels like full power, then total lack of response to throttle for several seconds. After that, eeven with throttle released, it suddenly gives another momentary surge of what feels like full power, then no further actions until I attempt throttle again.

I expect it is just settings I ahve not yet worked out, but it's not fun yet. It works fine using pass-thru mode.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Dec 24 2012 8:31am

HI AW,

Yeah, I do think it is settings.

You may want to try power (W) mode with some relatively conservative settings; set ramp up to 500, ramp down to 999, Wgain to 10 and max power 1kW (or whatever is lower than your maximum power).

Make sure to have the throttle mapped at conservative settings; first find out the minimum throttle input needed (I have Thr In at 1.87V), and then finding which output voltage will give a gentle startup.

Try and change the settings from there.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 24 2012 12:06pm

hjns wrote:Make sure to have the throttle mapped at conservative settings; first find out the minimum throttle input needed (I have Thr In at 1.87V), and then finding which output voltage will give a gentle startup.

Try and change the settings from there.
This adjustment strategy involves unnecessary guesswork and testing and is unlikely to yield optimal results. The V3 provides all the facilities to quickly make optimal throttle adjustments without guesswork. Please review the Unofficial Setup Notes for a procedure to set up the throttle.

The Throttle In/Out voltage level parameters are intended only to match the operator throttle output voltage range to that of the controller throttle input. Although throttle parameter misadjustment can affect controller power, power adjustment is not their purpose.

There are a seemlingly endless number of V3 adjustments and it can be a little daunting to make sense of them all at the outset... :)
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 24 2012 10:24pm

Throttle is properly setup via Teklektik's post and links. ramp rates are both at 500 (the default mine was at; I played with them only once, and found that since they work backwards from common sense I just put them back and left them alone). However, even if they weren't setup correctly, I can't imagine it causing this particular problem.


I had set the power limit to 2KW, IIRC. I did not adjust any of the other parameters within the Limits menu, AFAICR. I need to print out that settings document and note everything down.


I also need to fully calibrate the shunt--it's close right now but not qutie there--is still about a percent or two too high on current/watt readings. But it shouldn't be the cause of the surge-stop-surge.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by hjns » Dec 25 2012 3:20am

AW, if in power mode, what is your Wgain? If set too high, it will definitily cause mentioned surgeing.
Henk


All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Dec 28 2012 4:36am

once again, excellent customer service from Justin and crew..

ordered my V3 on the December 20th late in the night, and it's here on the 28th !

can't wait to get it hooked up and running. its just lightly clamped in place at the moment,
but this is where it will live once it's set up. it clears the cranks with ease.

Image

Jason.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by pendragon8000 » Dec 29 2012 8:06am

pendragon8000 wrote:
Diamondback wrote:you actually need a serial -> USB adapter to program it, not just a lead that connects the USB to a 3.5mm jack.

there are a few on the market that will do the job.

Jason.
Thanks DB I'll use the aux current limit with my crystalyte speed switch. Using this circuit:
Image
A couple trim pots and I'll have it dotted :)
Just one more Q. Which plug is the aux in?
Thanks

Just ordered the ttl USB cable from ebikes CA :)
just got the circuit goin with the aux plug on the ca v3, its really great! I can flick from 200w to 1.2kw to 2+kw
also this post helped allot---> http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 40#p647750
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by electricwheels.de » Dec 29 2012 9:49am

onlineaddy wrote:
NeilP wrote:Did need a torque sensor crank too, but not sure what length I need
How does one determine the correct BB spindle length to get?
THUN offers a special measuring tool together with the required software. See:

http://www.thun.de/en/products/bb-cartr ... bb-finder/

Here is a YouTube video that shows you how to use it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph0X4-nSeh0

Who said German technology was suppossed to be easy :lol:
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by onlineaddy » Dec 29 2012 1:39pm

That's crazy.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 29 2012 4:52pm

pendragon8000 wrote:just got the circuit goin with the aux plug on the ca v3, its really great! I can flick from 200w to 1.2kw to 2+kw
also this post helped allot---> http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 40#p647750
Excellent news! If Aux Input isn't my favorite feature, it's right up there... :D

(Just making sure because the improvement is quite pronounced... ): To get the best throttle action with your new switch (if you are using a non-PassThru throttle mode), be sure to match the Throttle and Aux Pot limiting modes as described in 'Advanced Setup Topics/Aux Pot Feature' of the Setup Notes.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Eascen » Dec 29 2012 6:40pm

Also, if you happen to be using the 'Short circuit my throttle wire' method of control, please ensure your controller is OFF before you disconnect the CA to re-route the wire.
I'm a noob that got to 50mph by piggybacking off the hard work done by other members and out of the box kits, and I'm likely to crash and burn soon. At least I'll be wearing a full helmet when it happens; but I'm no expert.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by pendragon8000 » Dec 29 2012 10:00pm

Thanks Telektik.
" If in non-legacy mode and using a non-PassThru throttle mode, configure Ctrl->AuxFunct and ThrI->CntrlMode to use the same limiting type to benefit from automatic throttle scaling to the externally limited maximum set by Vpot instead of the internal configured limit setting (e.g. 'Current' and 'Amps Lim' are the same limiting type). See the last section of this post for an explanation of this scaling effect. This automatic throttle range scaling feature is unavailable in legacy mode."
Trying to understand that bit, got both on watts , just wondering about the min and Max aux voltage. Should it be same as throttle or should it be what I want the min and Max limit to be via the aux?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 29 2012 10:52pm

pendragon8000 wrote:Thanks Telektik.
" ...See the last section of this post for an explanation of this scaling effect."
I guess it's a little tiresome to see me posting to look at the Setup Notes all the time, but it's a way to explain things in detail just once and keep reusing the same explanations instead of typing partial bits and pieces each time. That said, it's great to see the questions and advice from posters because it points up shortfalls in the Notes.

In this case, after I posted to you, it seemed to me that perhaps the throttle scaling explanation in the post referenced above was a little weak - so I just added a couple of illustrations and submitted it while you were typing. It might be worth revisiting the updated page to see the new throttle stuff at the end.
pendragon8000 wrote:Trying to understand that bit, got both on watts, just wondering about the min and Max aux voltage. Should it be same as throttle or should it be what I want the min and Max limit to be via the aux?
Yep - both on Watts is Good :) (what I use, actually).

Good question. Aux->MinAuxIn and Aux->MaxAuxIn are independent of the throttle settings and should be 0.0v and 4.99v respectively if you followed the circuits in this post. (Another missing bit of doc! - I just added this detail to the end of the How-To-LMH post - Thanks for asking!)
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by pendragon8000 » Dec 29 2012 11:04pm

Sweet thanks, I'll change the aux min and Max and check the updated post you referred to.
Very help full :)
Last edited by pendragon8000 on Dec 30 2012 5:50am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Dec 30 2012 1:07am

hi all.

got my CA V3 on Friday, the shop im intending to have install it all is closed. (till early January)

today i tried a basic hook up just to test and see if it would work well with the DP plug.
i plugged in the DP plug and raised the rear wheel off the ground, plugged it in. the CA powered up fine,
then quickly turned off. turns out i had a bad solder join on one of my series leads, and the negative wire just fell off.....

10 minutes later with that re-soldered, back to the garage 2nd try.
CA powered up fine, rear wheel remained motionless, so looks like im good to go with my current DP plug, even though
it was for the older V2 CA's, the V3 works ok and does not drive the throttle high immediately.

i left the throttle plugged into the controller, not the CA. i set the current shunt value, battery chemistry and cell count.
set power limits (20A and 1000W). then i opened the throttle, and at full throttle i get only about 180W power.

unplug the DP plug, and back to the regular power.

after confirming that my DP plug works well, im going to leave the rest to the experts to hook up.

quick question though....

the throttle will be connected to the CA in final setup. is there any other connection form the CA to the throttle on the controller,
apart from the DP plug ?

if yes, ill need a long throttle extension.
as it is, ill need to get a DP extension cable.

Jason.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Dec 30 2012 3:28am

Diamondback wrote:the throttle will be connected to the CA in final setup. is there any other connection form the CA to the throttle on the controller,
apart from the DP plug ?
Nope. That's part of the point of the V3's wiring, so you only need one cable from the CA itself to the controller, for DP setups. :) THen all the other spaghetti can go to the CA instead. :lol:

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Dec 30 2012 3:52am

thanks for the info, i just spent some more time in the garage and it's working in pass thru mode at the moment.

Image

i still need a DP extention, maybe 15cm's or so.... don't want to buy the 2 foot one from ebikes.ca, as it's way too long for what i need,
and i don't want to have excess wiring just bundled about if possible.

one thing i found strange (at first) once the throttle was plugged into the CA, i had a 6-7w power and the wheel was slowly turning with no input on the throttle.
using the diag screens, i was able to see that my throttle was putting out 0.83V even at zero input !

i changed the minimum out on the ca to 0.65v, and the problem went away.
i also noticed that here is a large dead band in the middle of the throttle where no change happens.
guess this is normal behavior of most hall throttles.....

now all i need is to get a bike shop to install the BB for me, and i can muck about getting the assist mode running.

many thanks to teklektik for the very valuable setup notes.
i printed most of them out and took them to the garage while setting it up.
im sure it made the job much easier than it would have otherwise been.

Jason.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 30 2012 7:25am

Diamondback wrote:i also noticed that here is a large dead band in the middle of the throttle where no change happens.
guess this is normal behavior of most hall throttles.....
Please see this post by Justin for more info about this throttle issue.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Diamondback » Dec 30 2012 8:19am

Thanks.

I'll have to look for a half twist throttle that this curved single magnet setup.

Jason.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Dec 30 2012 11:45am

Diamondback wrote:I'll have to look for a half twist throttle that this curved single magnet setup.
Another option is to get a Magura. These are basically a 5K linear pot. A little pricey but they have a good feel and work very nicely with the V3. They have a 90 degree range of motion which I like, but some find objectionable.
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