Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 05 2013 9:49am

Michall2008 wrote:
amberwolf wrote:some older controlelrs' ca ports put th e ca trhottle line to the brake pad instead of throtlte pad. i had to fix mine.
Instead of connecting the CAs ThO to controllers Thi, connect brake signal pin to controllers Thi ?
No - this does not apply - you are using a new V3 shunt not a controller DP connector...

Here's a link to a similar controller/wiring - no surprises. Yours seems to have ebrake wires as well. From eBay:
YK43_pinout.jpg
YK43 36v controller connections
YK43_pinout.jpg (16.5 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
Michall2008 wrote:1. Its 1KW/36V YK43 brushed controller
2. The voltage is always zero
3. The same thing here, always zero
4.As a load im using 2 halogen bulbs, pulls about 900W at WOT. Start glowing at 1.8, WOT is 4.83 (I'm using a not very accurate voltmeter so +- 0.1v)
Okay. So it seems by (2) and your previous post that the CA ThrOUT voltage on the blue/green wire junction of CA ThrOUT and controller ThrIN is appearing relative to the CA Gnd but not relative to the controller throttle Gnd. According to (3) the throttle Gnd and CA Gnd may be the same. Puzzling. (Actually looks like either a bad blue/green connection or a different ground reference - neither of which seem likely...)

By (4) it looks like the CA can be adjusted to yield the necessary voltages. (Good)

Hmmm - You did not show the shunt connections wired into your battery red/black (+/-) leads on your diagram, but I'm assuming that the shunt is wired in since the CA has power.

Unfortunately, (1) pretty much puts me in trouble with no brushed controller experience... I can think of some things to try, but it would just be guessing and experimenting. The fastest path to a solution is probably for you to email the support folks at Grin Tech and just briefly point them to these posts which describe your problem and have a bunch of useful information to jump start the discussion.

While you are waiting for a reply, you might hook up the throttle to the controller again and verify that the CA measures Watts on the main display as you advance the throttle. This is a small thing but it will ensure that the shunt and CA power connections are 100% correct.

EDIT - Ah! I missed Justin's post - and your response. Good news! Lesson - don't post before morning coffee... :D
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Michall2008   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Michall2008 » Jan 05 2013 10:02am

Hi teklektik,

Its ok now every thing works fine, I followed Justis instructions and put a 1K resistor across negative and positive controllers Thi that solved the problem. :D

Thanks again teklektik :wink:

Michael

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 05 2013 10:10am

No problem at all - it's great that the problem is resolved. You may be the first brushed controller V3 user :D

This issue has been added to the Setup Notes. Thanks for posting!
Last edited by teklektik on Jan 05 2013 3:18pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 05 2013 12:04pm

teklektik wrote:Actually, Denisesewa just posted in another thread about a good deal from JRH - about $40 shipped.
Cashed in on this deal and just got the package from JRH with free Priority Mail. Great price and service!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by givitago » Jan 05 2013 1:54pm

Thought I'd write a quick post on the off chance others had the same question as I did.

I have a cell_man mac and 30 amp controller and I was wondering if the cruise control would still work properly when the CA is used with throttle mapping/limitting.

Turns out it does for the most part as does the three speed switch wrt the controller functionality. One slight issue is that using the throttle to disconnect the cruise is now unreliable so either the cruise button or e-brakes (wired directly to the controller) are needed.

Now off to play with some reed switches for ebrakes ...

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 05 2013 2:31pm

givitago wrote:Thought I'd write a quick post on the off chance others had the same question as I did.

I have a cell_man mac and 30 amp controller and I was wondering if the cruise control would still work properly when the CA is used with throttle mapping/limitting.

Turns out it does for the most part as does the three speed switch wrt the controller functionality. One slight issue is that using the throttle to disconnect the cruise is now unreliable so either the cruise button or e-brakes (wired directly to the controller) are needed.
Thanks for the post. :)

Looking ahead a bit:
  • Justin has proposed a CA-to-controller ebrake-pass-thru solution in this post in the context of providing regen support. However, it seems this should be equally effective in providing controller cruise control disengagement on ebraking.
  • Justin also has described a cruise control feature for the CA in this post that could serve as a substitute for controller cruise. Software-only means it may appear sooner than the hardware do-hicky above...
givitago wrote:Now off to play with some reed switches for ebrakes ...
A good strategy for the near term... :wink:
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howbeit   1 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by howbeit » Jan 09 2013 2:39pm

Totally a newbie question, but what is the benefit of using the CA to handle the throttle than the controller?

How does it change the way the bike handles?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 09 2013 2:55pm

howbeit wrote:Totally a newbie question, but what is the benefit of using the CA to handle the throttle than the controller?

How does it change the way the bike handles?
Please review this post for an explanation of alternate throttle modes which give more refined and predicable throttle control.

This post describes setting up throttle ramping in the section 2 (Installation) which can have a beneficial effect for gear motors or powerful DD motors. Section 3 of the post (Advanced Setup and Features) gives an overview of other nifty features.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by mrbill » Jan 09 2013 11:28pm

I'm setting up my CA-V3 and am having difficulty parsing some of the data fields on the screens. Is there documentation that explains what information is being displayed for each screen?

Thanks.
Bill Bushnell
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by amberwolf » Jan 09 2013 11:53pm

Is this helpful?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25#p571345
or this (though some of the screens have changed some)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 09#p553309

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by mrbill » Jan 10 2013 1:09am

Not quite.

The first link gives the comprehensive setup instructions and advice. The second link gives a description of the 1st display screen and some of the setup screens. I have not been able to find a comprehensive document for all of the display screens, the screens one toggles between when the CA is in use.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Opus the Poet » Jan 10 2013 1:11am

OK, I'm about to drop some coin on a 9C hub motor kit and a CAV3 with Thun.

While I'm waiting to get the coin to drop let me ask about a logical installation protocol.

Mount hub motor, CA, Thun, and controller to the bike as I want them permanently but not connected yet. Connect controller to motor and throttle and make sure controller and motor work with throttle connected directly to the controller.

Connect the CA between the controller and the motor and make sure the CA works and measures properly.

Connect throttle to CA and set as desired speed controller (throttle as a percentage of maximum speed limit) and verify that part works.

Connect Thun and calibrate and verify that the setting works (I'm going to go with the minimum torque to get power after I reverse engineer the torque needed to get the cruise power I want) and that reducing the throttle gets me the speed I want only when I'm putting in the required torque.

Have I missed anything? Or did I get anything out of order?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 10 2013 9:52am

mrbill wrote:The first link gives the comprehensive setup instructions and advice. The second link gives a description of the 1st display screen and some of the setup screens. I have not been able to find a comprehensive document for all of the display screens, the screens one toggles between when the CA is in use.
You are correct. There is not yet such a document. These were in a state of change earlier, but now seem to have settled down.

The screens are arranged so that they have related information for a particular purpose or from a particular source and so some of the same info is duplicated so it is available without flipping screens. Here's a quick rundown of screens going right from Main:

<EDIT - info relocated to Setup Notes>

A good question - This info has been added to the Setup Notes in a new Console Operation section. Hope this helps
Last edited by teklektik on Mar 04 2013 6:05pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by mrbill » Jan 10 2013 12:53pm

teklektik wrote:This info has been added to the Setup Notes in a new Console Operation section. Hope this helps :)
Yes, it does. Thanks. And, thanks for managing the copious bibliography of documentation for this release.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 10 2013 6:04pm

teklektik wrote:
howbeit wrote:Totally a newbie question, but what is the benefit of using the CA to handle the throttle than the controller?

How does it change the way the bike handles?
Please review this post for ...
This post describes ...
These were a good questions but the answers were perhaps less than succinct. An Overview section has been added to the Setup Notes to outline the product a bit for folks who are unaquainted with the V3 -- hopefully short and sweet :D
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by howbeit » Jan 10 2013 8:45pm

Thanks! Once I get my bike up and running (and have conquered some of the learning curve), I'll be happy to help out with the wiki.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 10 2013 8:51pm

howbeit wrote:Once I get my bike up and running...
Best of luck with your build - maybe a new build thread! :)
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Golden Motor Canada » Jan 10 2013 9:37pm

justin_le wrote:
teklektik wrote:Justin-


We've also got a V3 CA shunt in production now that passes through the throttle and speedo signals from the 6-pin connector. This is especially handy for those doing RC controller interfaces to the CA, since you can repurpose the yellow speedo wire as a 5V line and the green wire becomes the servo pulse signal, and also for using a CA3 on an ebike controller without a Cycle Analyst plug on it.
CA V3 Shunt.gif


-Justin
I am looking at this quote and I have a v3 shunt here beside me. The 3 small wires coming from the shunt are black, yellow, green. I see from a picture the green is for throttle out to the controller. Do i run throttle in to the yellow and the black is a ground? I apologize if this was dicussed in this thread elsewhere but its getting quite huge and difficult to work through.

Whoops just found the "Cycle Analyst V3 - Unofficial Setup Notes" It seems My assumption on the wires colours was correct.
Last edited by Golden Motor Canada on Jan 10 2013 9:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 10 2013 9:45pm

Golden Motor Canada wrote:I am looking at this quote and I have a v3 shunt here beside me. The 3 small wires coming from the shunt are black, yellow, green. I see from a picture the green is for throttle out to the controller. Do i run throttle in to the yellow and the black is a ground? I apologize if this was dicussed in this thread elsewhere but its getting quite huge and difficult to work through.
Are you hooking up an RC controller or a hub motor controller?
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Golden Motor Canada » Jan 10 2013 9:57pm

Thanks for the prompt reply and nice job on the setup notes!

I am hooking it up to A Magic Pie 3 Internal controller.

Gary
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 10 2013 10:10pm

Golden Motor Canada wrote:I am looking at this quote and I have a v3 shunt here beside me. The 3 small wires coming from the shunt are black, yellow, green. I see from a picture the green is for throttle out to the controller. Do i run throttle in to the yellow and the black is a ground? I apologize if this was dicussed in this thread elsewhere but its getting quite huge and difficult to work through.

Whoops just found the "Cycle Analyst V3 - Unofficial Setup Notes" It seems My assumption on the wires colours was correct.
Golden Motor Canada wrote:Thanks for the prompt reply and nice job on the setup notes!
I am hooking it up to A Magic Pie 3 Internal controller.
Thanks - hope they help. Just to make sure - (you lost me a bit there :) ) - you should be using the green for Throttle OUT to the controller - yellow is for Speed In (optional if you use a wheel pickup). Black is Gnd but is not connected to minimize ground loop effects (you will get Gnd thru the shunt connection).
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Golden Motor Canada » Jan 10 2013 10:23pm

teklektik wrote: Thanks - hope they help. Just to make sure - (you lost me a bit there :) ) - you should be using the green for Throttle OUT to the controller - yellow is for Speed In (optional if you use a wheel pickup). Black is Gnd but is not connected to minimize ground loop effects (you will get Gnd thru the shunt connection).
I intend to first use the CA3 to limit the throttle, Then in the near future use the THUN sensor. Then hopefully be able to have three options with some sort of quick switch. I would like to switch between these options on "the fly" rather then stop to adjust the CA.

1 - No limitations
2 - Throttle limitations with CA
3 - THUN sensor

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » Jan 10 2013 10:44pm

Golden Motor Canada wrote:I intend to first use the CA3 to limit the throttle, Then in the near future use the THUN sensor. Then hopefully be able to have three options with some sort of quick switch. I would like to switch between these options on "the fly" rather then stop to adjust the CA.

1 - No limitations
2 - Throttle limitations with CA
3 - THUN sensor
I think your layout is also being considered by others - seems like a nice flexible set up using the mode presets. Justin has indicated that AUX Pot preset selection switch support is coming. The required external switch should be pretty easy to fabricate. This should support the on-the-fly aspect you desire - meanwhile you can use the button 'hot swap' feature to change modes.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by mrbill » Jan 10 2013 11:02pm

justin_le wrote:I haven't played with cruise control yet but on the agenda is to do the same style of "auto-cruise" that exists on some motor controllers. So if you hold the throttle steady for a fixed amount of time, then you can release the throttle and the CA would preserve that input until you either engaged the ebrakes or touched the throttle again. In that way if you had the CA setup as speed throttle, you would have proper cruise control, if you had it setup as a pass-thru throttle, you would have voltage cruise control, and if you had it setup as a current throttle you would have a power cruise control.
In the same spirit as offering support for the "three-speed" switch (through the "aux pot" connection) that is popular on some Infineon and Crystalyte controllers, have you considered adding support for the external hardware cruise control that is supported on some of these same controllers? An advantage of the external cruise control is the ability to set the cruise and then adjust it up or down, similar* to that of the cruise control on an automobile. With the "auto-cruise" adjustment of cruise speed/voltage/current/power must be done by breaking the cruise lock, then resetting it by holding the throttle steady for another 8 seconds.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/70 ... ntrol.jpg/

*This particular cruise control is digital in that it increments and decrements cruise setting in discrete increments, one increment per click of the "+" or "-" button.
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Re: AW: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by izeman » Jan 11 2013 5:17pm

Could someone please tell me how to connect the 10k thermistor? I think this should be 5V and sense wire to the two pins of the thermistor. But I want to be sure. Could I even connect more than one thermistor? I don't want to average the temp, but have one in the motor and one in the controller.
Thanks

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