New Prodeco X2 owner feedback

Ok, joining fellow ES'ers, providing my feedback on the Prodeco Phantom X2 for your reading pleasure

Background: Am replacing an off the shelf AOWA E-Bike (weighs 110lbs!) used for 1.5 years; was bought with the understanding the AOWA was locally produced, however, was just learning and came to find out dealer is less than upfront about the reality of his business (which is about as nice as I can be about it).

That said, found the AOWA a good starting e-bike, though over time, grew tired of the weight, the poor performance, the outdated SLA batteries (ugh!) the excessive amount of cheap plastic, and the overall (lack of quality) design, so in recent months, aimed to build my own and found ES around this time (ES forever!)

After much research and help from ESers, realized likely could not build a bike with same / similar features & performance for the same / similar price as the Prodeco Phantom X2 in a reasonable amount of time, so decided to get one as a base to build from & extend; finally picked it up yesterday!

Starting feedback, after first 24hrs
When I got home in the late afternoon, did the "initial install" configuration (which was very easy), and as it was already dusk when finished, decided to only take a test ride around the block... well that turned into a much longer ride; enjoyed it so much, ended up back home after 21km / 13miles! haha

The Good:

• It really moves! The bike feels fast, like i constantly have the wind at my back; had the e-bike grin from ear to ear!
• Definitely goes 32kmh / 20mph (clocked with phone's GPS), and yet, living in a relatively flat urban area, it feels faster somehow. Old AOWA went 20-25mph but X2 still feels faster (due to less weight, sitting higher? i don't know.)
• Battery showed more than 50% after 20km / 12mi. ride. By the end of the trip, the half marker was lit but returned to full lit once pedaling, suggesting just over half? Not sure if this was just the gauge being imprecise or not, but the juice level seemed fine after going from suburbs to downtown and back to suburbs. Battery fully charged in a few hours, though didn't really time it, sorry; will do more finite tests in the future.
• Felt it always had "push" / torque even at the top end; have the habit to pedal assist, and adding in the throttle, could always feel the affect, even when pedaling fast.
• Blew away cars "off the line" at stop lights OK that's easy, as i weigh much less than a car, but still, was amazed with how far i could stay in front & keep pace with cars after the light; typically 25% down the next block, even after a wide 4-lane intersection.
• The Shimano 7-speed did a good job; low gears worked great to get moving, mid gears fine for navigating side-walks, and the high gears kept me moving fast on straight flat stretches. Granted am not doing a lot of climbing, and tend to prefer fewer gears overall (some bikes with 21 gears; seriously?), but have no complaints here.
• It is a beast, big & solid, but still relatively light for what it is (esp. compared to the AOWA haha); felt very nimble, but also moves confident & safe due to the size. It's not a carbon fiber touring bike people, but still feels lighter than it should.
• Build quality felt high (other than the battery; see below) and didn't have any obvious shortcuts in the choices made. Adding, my father (an ex-NASA engineer who builds hot-rods with his bare hands for fun) stopped by and remarked on the build quality, how solid the welds were & agreed how clean the build design was.
• The stock seat was comfortable & includes divot in the middle for my junk; if it didn't, would have replaced the seat straight away, but happily didn't have to! Cannot believe how some male riders think it healthy to cut off circulation to the (less sensitive) base of their penis for extended periods of time, but happily this isn't an issue with the X2
• Warranty; 2 years full coverage on the bike, 3 on the motor? Yes please! Who else stands behind their work as much as this? No one I could find and certainly would not be the case if I built it myself; nice having the confidence & comfort that if anything goes wrong, Prodeco has my back (caveat: this is untested haha)
• Love the look of it and it does turn heads; not important or a big deal, but I love the clean design aesthetic & the having open space below the spine / between wheels -- people who saw it kept their gaze as I flew past The fact it folds up to fit in a car trunk is a bonus!

The Bad:

• Battery case partially broke on the way home Specifically, the molded tab that secures the rear of the battery to the rear of the rack broke off after a bump. To be clear, DID NOT push it hard on uneven patches, no jumping of curbs, and yes slowed down / down-shift when crossing streets, but the plastic-on-plastic battery case design proved insufficient to hold up against flat / city riding. With the battery being the heaviest part of the bike, it takes the most shock and really needs better design / re-enforcement; molded plastic fails here. That said, at no point did the battery fall off, the forward lock did its job well, and made it home without further incident. Adding, if feedback from other X2 owners are any indication, am looking forward to prompt warranty service from Prodeco on this issue (!)
• Not even worth mentioning, but the handlebar grip on the shifter side started to slip about halfway into first trip, but simply secured it better (once) and it didn't move after that. Think it was in part due to my twisting the grip instead of the shifter at first, so wised-up and had no further issue with it.

That's it! Had some issue getting ahold of Prodeco with questions before purchase, but that has since been rectified.

Overall, am extremely happy with this e-bike and look forward to taking it out again (once this weird late-summer rain subsides haha) and also getting the battery case fixed.

Adding, already finding it a great platform to build upon & extend; next up, shopping for lights, motion alarm, bag(s), and side-view mirror!

And no, I don't work for Prodeco, and have no ties to the company other than being a new happy customer; maybe with this, *ahem* "certain" ES members can put the guerrilla marketing nonsense of the past behind us? (if not, well... "haters gonna hate!" haha)

Will update again after getting the battery fixed & as feedback evolves! Thanks for reading!

nice review casemon - sounds like a solid ebike for a nice 2nd ebike for a wife or significant other.

ohzee said:

nice review casemon - sounds like a solid ebike for a nice 2nd ebike for a wife or significant other.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your post but do you care to qualify why you think the X2 is for women / SOs only? Didn't make any sense to me

I mean, sure the X2 is not a Stealth Bomber, but it doesn't try to be either. Apples & oranges.

casemon said:

ohzee said:

nice review casemon - sounds like a solid ebike for a nice 2nd ebike for a wife or significant other.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your post but do you care to qualify why you think the X2 is for women / SOs only? Didn't make any sense to me

I mean, sure the X2 is not a Stealth Bomber, but it doesn't try to be either. Apples & oranges.

Click to expand...

Yea I in no way meant anything negative.. just most the people here like to build their own it seems like there's a smaller
% who would rather buy a complete ebike. I may be wrong would not be the first time.

Still for someone like myself who wanted to get an ebike for my wife/kids/friends id feel better giving/recommending a commercially produced
unit like you have there that would require less maintenance on my own. That's really why I made that comment. I do think it is a great looking
unit.

ohzee said:

casemon said:

ohzee said:

nice review casemon - sounds like a solid ebike for a nice 2nd ebike for a wife or significant other.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your post but do you care to qualify why you think the X2 is for women / SOs only? Didn't make any sense to me

I mean, sure the X2 is not a Stealth Bomber, but it doesn't try to be either. Apples & oranges.

Click to expand...

Yea I in no way meant anything negative.. just most the people here like to build their own it seems like there's a smaller
% who would rather buy a complete ebike. I may be wrong would not be the first time.

Still for someone like myself who wanted to get an ebike for my wife/kids/friends id feel better giving/recommending a commercially produced
unit like you have there that would require less maintenance on my own. That's really why I made that comment. I do think it is a great looking
unit.

Click to expand...

Cool, I didn't assume either way, just didn't make any sense when i read it

It is true the DIY forums are more popular here, though am also glad a forum for pre-built bike reviews also exists, as it provides useful perspective to buyers & pure DIYers alike.

I love building things myself from scratch, though find there are limits to what can be called "from scratch" as honestly, very few here are welding their own frames or winding their own motors (and to those who do, I salute you!) but I also have many hobbies / limited time, so buying a strong base (like the X2) to extend from can also be part of the DIY experience!

To say, happily, buying a pre-built bike and extending it in a DIY fashion, and building one from scratch, are not mutually exclusive!

Reminded me of a relevant quote:

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe" -- Carl Sagan, RIP

Click to expand...

I have had my Pantom X2 for a couple weeks now. I will not waste time discussing the things I like about the bike. There are many that have done so and I agree with them. I will instead focus on the things I dont like.
Some background; I am a commuter and ride 25 miles round trip in city traffic weekdays. My bike was purcased assembled from a dealer, not shipped.

1. Disk brakes rub against the pads causing a noisy squeek on every rotation. The dealer and Prodeco both are trying to convince me that this is "normal", will go away on its own. They say the brakes need to be "broken in" first and then adjusted later if this is still a problem. All I see from my point of view is either a misalignment that is not an easy fix for them that they don't want to admit to. I have had a regular bike with disk breaks and this was never a problem. I would be very intersested to hear from the people of this forum if they think this is normal or not.

2. Battery back-light is not the least bit water-proof. I got caught in the rain last week Friday and the back light would not turn off. Prodeco says it would be fine once the battery dries out. It was. However, that is still a short-circuit. I would cover the back light with clear tape to seal it if you have a PX2.

3. The side supports for the battery rack are too weak and bend easily under the heavy weight of the battery rack if the rack itself shifts. I would replace them with steel ones.

4. IMHO, the battery-Case WILL break off at the molded tabs that secures the rear of the battery to the rear of the rack. This will likely happen sooner rather than later if you encounter uneven pavement, cracks or curbs on your route that you cannot avoid. This happened to me. As I see it, the molded tabs "track" on the battery itself are too small. Those molds are less than an inch long. They should be at least as long as the rack-track itself (a good 6-7 inches).

I began noticing an increasingly loud "rattle" from the battery whenever I hit any uneven pavement. It was as if the battery was coming loose. I kept looking back, stopping and checking to make sure I had it on securely. Suddenly, after hitting a road crack, the power was cut, the battery flew off and was tumbling on the road behind me. I was very lucky the drivers behind me kept cool heads.

After that scare, I contacted Prodeco. I got the impression that Prodeco has recently become aware of the problem because they offered to replace the battery and rack with a new one that addresses this problem.

If you have a PX2 right now, please take steps on your own to secure the battery to the rack. I recommend using a small bungie or belt.

Having said all this, I would still recommend the purchase of the bike overall. It is a new product and some issues like this cannot be forseen that the company needs time to address. The product gets it right in many more ways than it misses. Prodeco even replaced the switch trottle with a "twist-rev" version (like on a mototbike) at my request for $30.00 more. I get the impression that Prodeco is willing to work with its customers.

When I compare the cost of the bike, the features, communication with manufacturer, design and overall ride; If all I had to do was a add a bungie, I'd still buy the bike.

Boukmn said:

1. Disk brakes rub against the pads causing a noisy squeek on every rotation.
<snip>
I would be very intersested to hear from the people of this forum if they think this is normal or not.

Click to expand...

In my limited experience, that's probably a bent rotor or *maybe* a misaligned wheel (not straight in the dropouts). the only way it will "go away on it's own" is when the pads wear away to the point they don't rub on the part that's bent toward whichever pad it's rubbing on. As soon as you readjust the pads for closer fit to the rotor for any reason it will simply start again.

First, make sure the rotor is bolted on solid, all bolts, and that it's flush at the hub.. then.. assuming that's ok..

Got one of these :



adjust it to the thickness of the rotor, it's just metal, it will bend easily so go easy and take your time.. look at the gap where the pad meets the rotor, determine where the rub is happening and push / pull that spot ( note the spot, turn the wheel a quarter turn, put wrench and bend, you will have to overshoot a bit as it springs back ) .. and keep going.

if the hub/axle is the issue, the whole wheel will have play, this you can determine by firmly holding the fork/frame and grab the rim with the other hand, push/pull to see how much flex/play there is ( there should be none .. but cheap stuff often does ) .. may have to tighten the bearing cups, but this depends entirely on the diagnosis.

if the rub happens all the time, rotor.

if the rub only happens when you lean, hub .

I can hear a rubbing sound on my X2 also. However it is not audible when riding, just when walking the bike slowly. I have not had much opportunity to ride the bike frequently yet, and assumed the sound would eventually fade with brake pad wear.

I have not had a problem with my battery. It is secured tightly, and I must laterally hit the forward end with the palm of my hand to dislodge it. However, the battery may eventually wear loose in the future.

So far, the main issue I have with the bike is the known problem of the chain rubbing on the kickstand. For me, it appears to first make contact around 4-5th gear (while the bike is at rest). The 6th and 7th gear are fine.

One modification I would prefer to have seen on the bike, is how it folds. When folded, the front wheel sits a few inches lower than the rear. Hence the bike's balance is lop-sided, and must be stored against a wall. It is possible to have the bike self supported by extending one kickstand leg, and shortening the other. However it would be awkward having to constantly adjust the kickstand depending on whether the bike is folded or not. If the folding hinge had been slightly angled forward an appropriate amount, I would think both wheels could make contact with the ground evenly. The front (crank) end of the bike would be supported by the kickstand, and the bike would become self supporting while folded. However I don't know from an engineering point of view, if angling the hinge slightly would weaken the folding joint structure. I wouldn't think the slight amount would have a significant effect, but I am not an engineer.

Update on the original post: have yet to receive battery case replacement, apparently due to supply chain delays.

Managed to secure the broken case with some bungie cord and it is now very solid; just a temporary solution until the updated case design arrives.

Also, seems one of the hall sensors went out of a whack / stopped working. Was on a flat stretch of pavement, and noticed the odd shaking and sound and loss of power. After some inspection and advise from Rob @ Prodeco, determined it was one of the hall sensors. So now replacement motor & wheel also on it's way; glad Prodeco is backing up their awesome warranty program! (who else offers 2 years end-to-end?)

Going to keep the X2 parked until this motor issue is resolved, as I don't enjoy pedaling a 50lb. bike unless i have no other choice! Looking forward to get these early adopter issues ironed out soon; want my e-bike grin back! haha

@rdvi5
Do you fold it often?

casemon said:

@rdvi5
Do you fold it often?

Click to expand...

I have always kept my old regular ten-speed bike in the single car garage with my van. Getting it out was awkward, without having to back out the van first. As a result, I usually could not be bothered to ride my bike as often as I would have liked. If I kept the ten-speed in the basement instead, it would still be awkward to carry upstairs. Eventually I decided to get a folding bike which I could keep in a corner of the front foyer (behind where the front door swings open). I wasn't planning on getting an ebike at the time. As I searched for a new bike, I began reading about ebikes and decided to get one (I hate having to ride my bike up steep hills, and hoped the ebike would make the task easier).

Unfortunately I discovered the folded Prodeco bike does not fit in the foyer corner because my 125 gallon aquarium takes too much room. It will be necessary to shift the aquarium to one side to create more space. Since moving an aquarium that size is a big job, I have not yet performed the task. For now, I keep the unfolded ebike in the garage. Until I can move that aquarium, I am back where I started (actually worse, since the ebike is much heavier than my old ten-speed).

To answer your question... at the moment I am not folding it often. However once I can make room to store the bike, I will be folding it each time I use it.


Notes on the X2 hill climbing capabilities...

I took the Prodeco X2 to one of the hills near where I live for a test of it's hill climbing capabilities. My goal for this test was to determine how it handled the hill on battery power only. As I hit the bottom of the hill, I noticed a significant reduction in speed. The bike slowly crept up the hill, and I eventually had to abort the test about 2/3 to 3/4 up after an almost stop. To be fair, the hill was short but steep. During one icy winter day, I was not able to climb that hill in my car. After getting 2/3-3/4 up with my car, I had to back down and find an alternate road to reach my destination.

P.S. My weight is currently about 200 lb.

My next test of the X2 will be a combination of pedaling with battery assist. At that time, I will bring my iPod to measure the incline slope. Although I had suspected the ebike would fail the battery only test, I am more optimistic for the pedal assist test. I will also bring my Garmin GPS to get an estimate of my battery only speed on level ground.

Hi RDVI,
You mention measuring the slope of your hill. How can I measure the slope of my hill with any of the usual gear - I have an Android phone plus a Garmin GPS. Can you tell me how to do it? Thanks!
Suzy

Hi Suzy,

I was planning to use one of the free iphone/ipod touch apps for measuring angles. The apps provide a degree measurement based on how much the ipod is tilted. iphones, ipads, and the ipod touch have a built in sensor which detects when the device is tilted. I would first hold the ipod across a fixed location on the bike while on level ground. eg. along the rear battery surface would be good. After riding the bike half way up the hill, I would take a second measurement from the same spot on the battery surface. The difference should be the slope angle. If the hill slope is not consistent, it may be necessary to take several measurements at different locations to calculate an average. In my case, the slope appears consistent the entire length of the hill.

Suppose the level ground measurement was 180 degrees, while the half way measurement was 215 degrees. The hill's slope would be 35 degrees from horizontal. Perhaps you can find a similar app for your Android by searching for the keyword "angle".

Thanks! I'll try it. All I know is IT"S STEEP! thanks again -
Suzy

Hi Guys, its Rob Provost with Prodeco Technologies. I am not sure if everyone wants me to answer the posts or make comments but here I go. If the consensus is for me not to write on Endless Sphere, I will not. My position with the company is as CEO so I am aware of all issues and future revisions.

Brakes - The brake system we used for the Phantoms were the Promax DSK-715, the sister of the Avid BB5. They use the same exact brake pads and they also both of the tool free pad adjusting knob. The big difference which can cause the initial rub issue is the BB5 has a tri-align system which is patented worldwide. The BB5 uses concave and spherical washers which allow the caliper complete free movement to rotate to the rotor position. With the Promax DSK-715, we designed our own adapter with a somewhat adjustment but had to be careful not to cause issue with the Avid patent. To avoid the issue all together for next year, we built a partnership with SRAM which owns Avid and Truvativ as well. All Phantoms starting November 19th will be using Avid Front and Rear BB7 brakes with the Avid HS1 Rotors. We are also facing the dropouts on the frames prior and the dropouts have also been completely redesigned.

The initial brake rub does go away once the pads bed themselves. It is a reason behind our lifetime free brake pad replacement program. The BB7 will not have free lifetime pads. For the other bikes, we will be using Avid BB5 front and rear and for the Outlaws we are using Avid Elixir 5 Hydraulic brakes. The Elixir 5 is a step above the Elixir 1 and 3 and closer to the Elixir 7 or 9. The Hydraulic brakes were flawless as well as the BB7. The 26 bikes (21 at the booth, 4 at the demo track, 1 in a glass kiosk) we had at Interbike this past month all had the Avid systems. Nobody complained about the brakes and we had actually praise on all systems.

Kick Stand - with the adding of the Deore derailleur on the X2, there became an issue in the "granny" gear of the bike with rubbing. What we did was limit the swing by 3º and this avoided the issue. We also are changing to SRAM X7 derailleurs for the Phantoms. The X7 is a step above the X5 and the X5 is on the same level and compared to the Deore. We prefer the SRAM drivetrains. Any rider of the X2 who has an issue with the kickstand can contact us for a free new kickstand with the increased folding limit by 3º.

Folding - The Phantom uses the ZXR Magnesium fork which has a 120mm travel. It is much more robust than the stand suspension fork we were using prior. When we decided to make the switch, we were going to adjust the rake angle of the head tube to compensate for the increased length. When the R & D guys however tested the new fork on the Phantom frame, the increase nose height gave a better ride position and ride feel. It was a more comfortable ride causing the rider to lean back a few degrees from the original design. It was one of those improvements by test where the CAD drawings would not have given the same results. Therefore the bike when folding is not the same as we original designed. The hinge will have to be redesigned and remolded. We are developing a new hinge system and this will be seen on models in about 18 months. It takes that long to R & D, test, create molds, implement, fabricate, etc...

Battery - We noticed calls coming in from a few riders of the X2 that the security slot for the battery broke. When we tested originally we did not anticipate a few outside issues such as chipping at the side wall of the security slot. The case of the 12Ah battery if slid at an angle when mounting would have the steel tabe of the frame mount hit the side wall of the slot that secures the battery in place. The side wall would get chipped and this created a weak point where additional pressure could cause the slot to crack. There is the locking rails at the front of the battery also which secures the battery. We have since redesigned the molds and increased thickness by twice which solved the issue. All bikes shipping about 4 weeks ago, have the new battery base. We also are increasing the entire thickness of the shell by 50% and we also are now using a softer ABS plastic. The thinner base with the brittle plastic combined with either luggage, misaligning, etc.. caused the issue with some batteries security slot cracking. We are doing all of this no charge and paying for shipping both ways for any customer who encountered an issue or would like to have the replacement done. This is only an issue with 12Ah batteries. We also took it one step further and in about 6 weeks, we have a new aluminum carrier which mounts over the 12Ah battery and allows the storing of items. Another issue causing the battery to have the slot crack was baggage on the battery. I don't think we ever came across a customer who stated the place luggage on the battery or have someone sit on the battery yet on Facebook and other social sites, we see the bikes with all kinds of luggage strapped to the battery. We understand riders use the bike for commuting and this is why we made the rack. The rack also forces the rider to slide the battery in straight and avoid chipping away at the security slot. The rack is made of aluminum and powder coated black. It is nice looking and also there is no charge for all X2 owners. We will even pay shipping. We have 4 M5 mounts on each rear frame stay and this is where the rack mounts. It will literally take 5 minutes to install with no modification needed. The mounts on the rear stay were designed into the frame this year by us due to knowing we were in development of a rack system.

An testament to the new system and how strong it is now is an accident that happened at Interbike and the demo test track. Some kids wanted to test the Outlaw which is the same battery mount as the new X2. They tried to do a wheelie when nobody was looking and the bike went up in the air and landed with all its weight on the rear top left corner of the battery. The corner of the battery caved in and was beat up bad but the security slot and rails held 100%. The rest of the bike was also fine but a bad accident overall. The new double thickness, new ABS plastic and redesign held 100% as expected. The original base was a continuation from our original system which is on thousands of bikes over the past 2 years but the added weight of the 12Ah and being a little more difficult to slide in brought up an issue and we took care of it quickly.

Battery Supports - We did also change this design. Where we have not had an issue with the new battery system, we do know some people will like to store on the battery, especially the smaller battery designs and we have caution labels requesting a limit of 10lbs on the battery. The new struts for the 2013 bikes which will be shipping Nov 19th will have adjustable struts made of 5460 cromoly (chromium steel) and stainless steel. The struts resemble small shock absorbers and have stainless steel threaded eye bolts on each end. The tube itself is cromoly with threaded ends. They allow for the production guys to adjust for use on any of the model bikes regardless of battery or frame design. The cromoly is very strong and there will be ZERO issues with ratings of over 100 lbs besides the original rating of the 100 lbs on the mount. We currently fabricate all alloy struts in our facility but will sub-contract the production of the cromoly struts. They are being produced in lots of 30,000 pieces and we will maintain high numbers on hand for any customer who owns a Prodeco Technologies bikes and wants the new struts. There was nothing wrong with the original but we send the new struts to anyone who requests and we also will include free shipping.

If the orignal forum members prefers I do not write on Endless Sphere because this is a DIY (do it yourself) eBike forum and more of a social group, I will not. I just wanted to respond to the issues brought up if someone had questions or requests for answers. We just want everyone to know we continue to evolve the bikes and will never stop to improve. The great part of building the bikes ourselves is the ability to implement changes quick and keep them standard from model to model if an upgrade is done. We are not much different than many of the members on here except we purchase components in lots of 5,000, 10,000 or even 20,000. We are direct with every component suppliers and the frames and batteries our unique designs we developed. We love writing with you guys and outside of the forum we feel we have became friends with a few of you who write back and forth with me directly.

Robert Provost, CEO Prodeco Technologies

I just bought a Phantom X2 from your internet dealer in Florida. The shipping box was in very good shape when it arrived, but while the bike at first looked OK, upon assembling it I discovered the following problems:

1. The battery rack/controller unit was cracked in several places and its struts bent in at the top. This despite no external damage to the box.

2. The handlebar (a Genesis unit I paid extra to have substituted, along with the new half-twist throttle) clamp was so tight that it broke the multi-hex wrench instead of loosening.

3. One of the three "ignition" keys was inexplicably broken inside its plastic handle. This key was inside another undamaged box, inside the main undamaged box. (!)

4. This is the last problem I discovered, but it's the deal-breaker. The suspension forks are completely immobile - locked up solid. The preload knobs feel like they are connected and working, but have no effect on the forks. I have seen mention of a 'fork lockup' feature in Google searches, but not in the manual, and I can't see a control for one on the bike. I've been in touch with your company, and after an initial offer of them sending me parts to install, I was offered a new bike - IF I pay to send the old one back. I have a few questions (as you might imagine!):

* Is there a locking mechanism that is immobilizing the forks? The guy I spoke with didn't mention one. When asked why the bike was sent out with seized forks, he responded that (paraphrase) 'They are pretty stiff when they come from the factory.'

* Why do I have to pay return shipping on a bike that left the factory with at least one major, non-user-repairable defect (the forks, if no lockup), and damage that appears to have occurred before it was boxed? I'm in poor health and am not capable or experienced enough to replace the forks myself, as I was initially told I'd have to do. Your own manual states that just to adjust the steering bearing the bike must be brought to a mechanic!

* If the forks are OK, and I decide to keep the bike and replace the other broken parts, would you please send the new, stronger struts and reinforced battery, or at least the new struts with the new battery rack/controller unit? It appears from reviews that you know that the first version of the battery pack and rack are too weak for even normal riding, and I don't want to put in more work on a brand new bike installing fragile replacement parts when better ones are available. I'd also like to have the luggage rack; I don't carry heavy items but I'm used to having a rear rack.

I'm sorry to hit you with this in a public forum, but imagine how I feel, having borrowed a substantial amount of money for a "new" e-bike that is badly damaged and that I now either have to refurbish myself, or pay "about $100" according to your people, to have you replace it. When I first unboxed the bike I was thrilled. Now I'm just depressed.

Maybe if it's still within the first month you could still return it and get your money back all but the $100 to ship it back. I know you said your in poor health but I think getting into a a pre-built bike is going to be more work then an easy build. I'm in the same boat as yourself and was saving to buy this bike but now I'm looking to not deal with Prodeco and all the crap. Advice get out now if you can, start fresh.

I have now confirmed that there is no fork lock on the version of the forks used by Prodeco on the PX2. My bike has seized forks and has to go back to the factory. Has anyone else encountered this problem? My position is that since I have to pay to ship the bike back despite the out of box defects, I'm only going to ask for a new bike if it includes the fixes made to the 2013 line and in some cases offered as free replacements to 2012 owners. I'd also like a guarantee that I won't have to ship the replacement back at my expense if *it* is defective. My advice to prospective Phantom buyers at this point is "Buy it locally if you can, and don't get a pre-2013 model if you have to order one shipped." Those heavy battery packs with thin plastic, and the weak battery mounts are a bad combination.

Another post slipped in while I was writing this one. Yes, I may well take a refund and cut my losses, if the company wants to just ship me another 2012 X2 with the original version pack and mount. It's a $150 lesson I had no desire to have to learn.

Just out of curiosity, has the battery and rack problem been showing up in the 2012 Genesis? Fork issues? That was the bike that first interested me because of the upright riding position and lighter weight, but then I got suckered in by the extra battery capacity of the Phantom. If I could be sure that the damned thing would arrive undamaged and with no defects, I'd consider swapping the broken Phantom X2 I'm about to box up to ship back for A 2013 Genesis.

You folks on the West Coast have no idea what it's like living where everything you can't buy in the Big Box stores has to be shipped by truck for hundreds or thousands of miles...

I sold my Prodeco @ a loss & bought a more expensive bike after maybe 6 weeks of ownership, these bikes are fair/OK but not true high quality units IMHO. The forks on my Storm 500 were Zoom model they sell for under 50 bucks new on E-Bay. The bike I bought use Omega RST TNL's with a lockout that sell for $ 150 retail. The difference is night & day no slop, rattles or pogo stick feel, but I paid $ 800.00 more for my new bike, Prodeco's are not a very expensive bike you get what you pay for .
What I suggest you do is bring the bike to your LBS have them take a looksy & send Prodeco the bill, they will go for that . Theyre just cocked in there maybe assembled wrong. Or better yet ask Prodeco to send out new forks & send back the locked units & then send them the bill to reinstall the forks, it's not hard to install forks on these bikes but getting the headset adjusted just right is a little tricky with the design they use. Good luck many people swear by these Prodecos & they are fun to ride & have a nice riding position but I'm glad I stepped up, great bike to get into E-Biking though.. Good luck, I know the feeling after spending a nice chunk of $ on something & having to deal with issues like you are.

50yearoldebiker said:

I sold my Prodeco @ a loss & bought a more expensive bike after maybe 6 weeks of ownership, these bikes are fair/OK but not true high quality units IMHO. The forks on my Storm 500 were Zoom model they sell for under 50 bucks new on E-Bay. The bike I bought use Omega RST TNL's with a lockout that sell for $ 150 retail. The difference is night & day no slop, rattles or pogo stick feel, but I paid $ 800.00 more for my new bike, Prodeco's are not a very expensive bike you get what you pay for .
What I suggest you do is bring the bike to your LBS have them take a looksy & send Prodeco the bill, they will go for that . Theyre just cocked in there maybe assembled wrong. Or better yet ask Prodeco to send out new forks & send back the locked units & then send them the bill to reinstall the forks, it's not hard to install forks on these bikes but getting the headset adjusted just right is a little tricky with the design they use. Good luck many people swear by these Prodecos & they are fun to ride & have a nice riding position but I'm glad I stepped up, great bike to get into E-Biking though.. Good luck, I know the feeling after spending a nice chunk of $ on something & having to deal with issues like you are.

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Hi everyone, its Rob Provost with Prodeco. As 50yearoldebiker did explain. The forks on the Storm retail for about $69 and the Phantom about $99. The bikes sell for $999 to $1299. We do have the Outlaws which are $2200 and the forks retail for $249. It depends on the model but electric bikes which retail for $999 to $1299 will not have $199 forks. The bikes can be compared to $600 - $1000 bikes with power systems.

With that said above, we are checking what happened to the older customer with a fork which he feels is not compressing. We have never seen this happend with a ZXR fork but will address the issue. We are speaking to his dealer and our customer service guys on why he felt he was stuck. I will get an update in the next day and since he brought to Endless Sphere, I will make sure we have explanations on Endless Sphere also.

We are very strong on all dealers offering the best customer service and have closed dealers who do not. We tell all dealers they should offer a 30 day money back guarantee. We however cannot do the money back guarantee if we did not sell the bike. Sometimes the dealer states, the issue does not warrant it but we still ask them to offer it regardless. The dealer may select not to sell the customer anymore if they feel is was not warranted but there is nothing I can do about that.

After some back and forth conversation between me and upper management at Prodeco, they have agreed to take my bike back, pay for return shipping, and refund my purchase price. All I'll lose is a small loan fee and the time it takes to partially disassemble and repack the bike. I'm grateful for that.

As for the fork issue, I was told to lock the front brake and push forward on the bike. At minimum preload, with me on the bike, throwing my full weight forward, I was finally able to get the forks to compress - between 1" and 2". They are supposed to have a travel range of over 4". One of the reasons they are taking the bike back is they want to look at those forks. I was told that the company ordered them with stiffer springs than they usually have, to deal with high-speed bumps. If the forks are working as they are supposed to, this means that in normal riding on pavement, even a 180lb rider won't have any front shock absorption at all unless they hit a pothole or other really big bump. Hard braking will probably also compress the forks, but (again, assuming mine are not defective) if you want the suspension to actually smooth out the ride, this isn't the bike for you. If my forks are too 'tight', then hopefully the company Rep or CEO will post that here.

I may one day buy a Genesis, but only if I get to ride the bike first, and buy it locally. We need more dealers here on the East Coast, especially inland!

LeftieBiker said:

After some back and forth conversation between me and upper management at Prodeco, they have agreed to take my bike back, pay for return shipping, and refund my purchase price. All I'll lose is a small loan fee and the time it takes to partially disassemble and repack the bike. I'm grateful for that.

As for the fork issue, I was told to lock the front brake and push forward on the bike. At minimum preload, with me on the bike, throwing my full weight forward, I was finally able to get the forks to compress - between 1" and 2". They are supposed to have a travel range of over 4". One of the reasons they are taking the bike back is they want to look at those forks. I was told that the company ordered them with stiffer springs than they usually have, to deal with high-speed bumps. If the forks are working as they are supposed to, this means that in normal riding on pavement, even a 180lb rider won't have any front shock absorption at all unless they hit a pothole or other really big bump. Hard braking will probably also compress the forks, but (again, assuming mine are not defective) if you want the suspension to actually smooth out the ride, this isn't the bike for you. If my forks are too 'tight', then hopefully the company Rep or CEO will post that here.

I may one day buy a Genesis, but only if I get to ride the bike first, and buy it locally. We need more dealers here on the East Coast, especially inland!

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Hi everyone, its Rob with Prodeco Technologies. In regards to this situation, we want to clarify our position as we are getting multiple calls on this one. We spoke with his dealer and requested the dealer accept the bike back. His dealer has a 100% return policy on everything they sell, so they accepted with no issue and they understood why we also requested it. Not all dealers have this policy and potential buyers who request a return policy need to check with their dealer. Some dealers look at the policy being abused and people who just need to rent a bike for 2 weeks, especially in a vacation town would abuse the return policy. This particular dealer accepts returns but where they are willing to incur the shipping cost and lose that $100 to the customer, they do not want to pay both ways, especially if they believe there is nothing wrong with the product. They then have a used bike on top of losing the shipping cost. We understood this and offered the dealer a $90 credit for shipping charges (actually cost to ship). We rarely find ourselves every doing so, actually I think this is a first this year. The cost also would have been $110 to the customer through bikeflights.com and we explained that to the customer. Most consumers understand why a dealer does not pay shipping both ways unless the bike had a major issue. In this situation, we felt it was just better to offer the credit. It would be a no-win situation for all, especially since the customer first expressed it was locked with zero compression which we knew was basically impossible. This customer was very passionate about the suspension fork from day 1 and we completely respect that. He expressed so through multiple avenues, such as emails, online, through the dealer, the CEO, 2 service reps, phone calls, etc.

The issue with the fork as the rider described above was not up to his expectations. After he told us he was able to compress to 2" by pushing down while braking (we suggested he try this), we realized most likely there was no issue with the fork but that the customer preferred the full travel to be softer. We could send another fork but it would behave the same. We will test once we get the bike back but at this time confident there is no issue since it is compressing 2" when pushing on it while not even riding. As the customer stated, we will share the results of the test. The ZXR fork is specified as a firm fork and about 15% firmer than standard suspension forks. We have sold 1000s of the ZXR forks and never had a rider feel it was too firm but we know there is a first for everything. Where some feels it is too firm someone else will believe it is too soft. The design basically makes it impossible for the fork to lock up unless in an accident and dented. There is the coil and a sleeve and each fork is tested for compression prior. The ZXR fork was the customer's first experience with a bike suspension fork, so we realize he may not be familiar with them, especially high speed electric bikes. The customer was looking for a bike with a suspension fork he can push on the handlebar and bottom out. Our engineers told us this is dangerous for real world riding and the rider should not be able to bottom out a suspension fork by pushing on it. The fork should only compress lighty when pushing by hand while the front brake is applied. The customer was adamant about being able to fully compress the fork to the 4.72" (120mm) even after we explained the springs are meant to be firm. We explained he must keep in mind electric bikes travel ate much higher speeds than non-electric bikes. We also explained one reason Road Bikes do not use suspension forks is do to increase power required from the rider for suspension forks.

The ZXR fork was the customer's first experience with a bike suspension fork, so we realize he may not be familiar with them, especially high speed electric bikes. The customer was looking for a bike with a suspension fork he can push on the handlebar and bottom out. Our engineers told us this is dangerous for real world riding and the rider should not be able to bottom out a suspension fork by pushing on it. The fork should only compress lighty when pushing by hand while the front brake is applied. The customer was adamant about being able to fully compress the fork to the 4.72" (120mm) even after we explained the springs are meant to be firm. We explained he must keep in mind electric bikes travel ate much higher speeds than non-electric bikes. We also explained one reason Road Bikes do not use suspension forks is do to increase power required from the rider for suspension forks.

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The above is for the most part not true. The Prodeco was not my first experience with a suspension forks - it was the first time I had *bought* a bike with one. I do have limited experience with them, and this was the first one that not only could not be compressed at all by pushing down on the bars. It was also the first one I'd tried that had zero compression when passing over normal road bumps. The forks did compress an inch or two when riding up curbs, but since this is a street bike that would bend its battery holder struts if used off-road, I fail to see much advantage in having a fork that works only in the most extreme cases. I would also like to note that the dealer told me, when I had been dealing with this for several days, that the Phantom forks are stiff when new, and had to be broken in. This does not appear anywhere in the manual, but it seems the dealer is right: out of the box the forks were incredibly stiff - enough to make me think they were seized. After riding a mile or so and deliberately riding over bumps and a few curbs, they loosened up to the point where I would have been willing to keep the bike, had not the battery mounting system arrived broken. I didn't want to refurbish this "new" bike only to find, possibly, that there was damage to the motor or other drive components, and the manufacturer - not the dealer - was adamant that I return the bike. I do not regret doing so. Finally, I at no time wrote that I was " looking for a bike with a suspension fork he can push on the handlebar and bottom out." I was looking for a bike that has forks that would move up and down a little when pushed hard enough to simulate a bump in the road. Prodeco can avoid this issue in the future by making clear in their literature what is now being claimed about the actual intent for the forks, and by adding to the manual (which needs revision anyway, if only to note that the bike isn't shipped with the front wheel attached) that the forks may need to be ridden for a few miles to break them in. This is especially true if their other bikes like the Genesis have forks designed for the same conditions.

We explained he must keep in mind electric bikes travel ate much higher speeds than non-electric bikes.

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Really? The assist is supposedly limited to 20MPH, with up to 25 MPH possible with hard pedaling. This is significantly *slower* than the faster road bicycles. There are electric bicycles going very fast, but the Phantom isn't one of them.

I hadn't been planning to buy another e-bike I had to have shipped, but woot.com was selling the Currie EZIP Trailz for about 1/4 the price of the Phantom, and I took a chance. That bike appears to be undamaged in transit, and I'll know if the drive is OK later today. I did ride the Trailz last night without the battery pack (it was still charging), and that fork works well: only about 1/4" to 1/2" compression over normal bumps, but that little bit of travel makes a big difference in the ride quality. What the above post states about road bikes is a little misleading: E-bikes tend to be so heavy that when there is no front suspension the ride quality is likely to be unpleasant over anything but smooth pavement. The Phantom isn't a street racer and it isn't a mountain bike, so the front shocks are only going to be useful for curbs, potholes, and other extreme impacts. That should be made clear.