EcoTrak - An EcoSpeed Middrive/Ktrack Snow+Sand Bike

oatnet

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The Ktrak kit consists of (2) Quick-Release replacements, a ski that replaces the front wheel, and a complete track assembly that replaces the rear wheel. The rear track also has a shock absorber assembly that clamps to the seatpost, and keeps the track's three smaller wheels in the correct position. The manufacturer says it can be used on both Sand and Snow.

The EcoSpeed is a mid-drive kit using a geared BMC motor to drive a proprietary chainring, and power the bike through the gears.

Someone here recently posted about the K-Trak, with picture I thought unusual enough to research. It looked fairly practical in the pictures, but elicited common complaints about the track adding too much weight, and being too hard to pedal. The rolling resistance of the rear track, and friction surface of the front ski, make the folks in the youtube video look like they are struggling when not going downhill. I'd expect everyone on this board is scratching their chin at this point, and thinking "so obviously, all it needs is a motor." Well, there was a guy who put a gas motor on one, but its youtube vids looked like it would benefit more from the linear control and clean running of electric. There also was a for-sale posting from someone in Canada with a ford think electric bike with a ktrak, so it has been done albiet not documented... finally the ktrack was far enough off the beaten path to catch my interest as a potential project.

They haven't been made for years, but I found a ktrack on ebay for far less than I expected, so I idly posted the only bid and eventually won it, sort of accidentally committing myself to a project. Years ago I had purchased some sort of mid-drive kit from Cycle 9's clearance sale, but the kit wasn't complete as Cycle 9 advertised, and disappointed I never got around to researching the missing parts... Now, powering the Ktrak gave me a reason to revisit it. I also needed a donor bike, and I chose one of my old reliable mules, a Tidalforce S-750 that has been at least (6) completely different eBike drivetrain/controller/battery/fork configurations, from a 5305 NiMh wheelie special in 2007 to a Kepler friction drive.


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I was pleased to (re?)discover my midrive was an older version of the quality Ecospeed kit I have seen pop up on numerous builds. The supplied aluminum clamps were made for round tubes and not going to work with the sharply oval TF downtube, but I saw a picture using pipe clamps on their website, and decided to go that route. The bottom bracket was missing from the kit, and it looked like the taller stack on the Ecospeed chainring was not going to clear, so I contacted Ecospeed for advice. Tad was really helpful, and offered me the 27.5mm bottom bracket I needed for $19. I have one of the oldest kits, which has a mounting ring that clamps between the right side bottom bracket and the frame. Tad also recommended a retrofit kit that adds a second mounting ring between the left side bottom bracket cup and the frame; I had already half-way engineereed a similar solution in my head, but I was glad to buy the precision fit and time savings of a proven kit instead. It turned out that the left bracket kit also required that I replace the Primary and Secondary plates (tertiary is the red plate the motor is bolted directly to). The new plates are also designed to accomodate a pipe-clamp for the downtube mount, and I think smaller/lighter than the my old ones. The left-bracket retrofit also takes a lot of load off the pipe clamp, and stops the "eventual rightward creep" of the first generation kit.

It didn't jump out at me at first, but I've really come to like the space where EcoSpeed put the motor. It is otherwise dead space, and obviously carrying the mass forward and low enhances stability, but it also puts the motor chainline as far from the rider (and pantlegs) as it can get. I ride street so I don't have to worry about mud kicking up from the front wheel into the motor, or I'd make some kind of shield. Still, I plan to make an interpretation of the chain cover available on their current models, after I sort out an idler arm.


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Short term, I'll throw some a123 20ah packs into my old ammo-can front mount. Long term, I am thinking of spot-welding a bunch of old Dr Bass 1.1ah a123 cells into a pack shaped to fit the triangle. I need to get a sense of what voltage/RPM I want to the kit at, which will dictate how I serial/parallel the qty of cells that fit in the triangle. My kit came with a BMC 36v controller, not EcoSpeed's new snazzy controller; I'll see how the BMC runs, maybe swap in a few other controllers from my vast collection, in pursuit of optimal voltage for my preferences. BTW does anyone know if this 36v nominal BMC controller can handle up to 50v like the 36v xlytes did?

The Ktrack is a well engineered piece of kit, and it bolted on as simply as any other quick-release wheel. A seatpost clamp and shock absorber keep the trailing wheel assembly in position, and is as easy as adjusting a seatpost. The front ski looks sturdy, but it is meant for a QR fork not a 20mm through-axle boxxer. Ktrak said this kit was made for sand or snow, here in LA the sand is much closer, so I'll probably try the surfline with the track and front wheel first, and swap in QR fork when I plan to try snow. I'll probably run this bike with a regular rear wheel far more often than the ktrak, but it was the motivation to do something with the EcoSpeed, and so simple/fast to install that I can convert to it in a few minutes.


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StudEbiker said:
I'm confused. Is this for snow??

I'm not sure I'd you are referring to the Ktrak or my build in general... :D

This build is for sand and snow when I have the ktrak on the back, or for street or dirt when I have a standard 26" 135mm wheel in the back.

The Ktrak is made for both sand and snow. Wanting to play with and power it inspired me to get an unused Ecospeed mid-drive kit off the shelf and installed. However, since I can swap the rear track for a normal rear wheel In under a minute, it is also a practical mid-drive street bike. With knobbies and a motor shield it could even do offroad. Since most of my riding is street, unless the snow/sand riding experience makes it my new passion in life, after I have played with the ktrak enough I'd expect the build to spend more time as a street bike with the wheel instead of the track.

-JD
 
'

Related links:


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CLICK HERE to read an excellent article about the history of the snowtercycle - the hyanide above is my favorite.


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CLICK HERE to see the ad for the Ford Think Electric bike, with ktrak installed, presumably sold.



Here is a youtube of the ICE-powered ktrak in snow. (internal combustion engine, that is :lol: )
[youtube]_8FefRzcWjg[/youtube]

Some interesting unpowered ktrak downhill action:
[youtube]JBrDYNl0efA[/youtube]

Some of these unpowered ktrak riders look like they are struggling to maintain momentum:
[youtube]1WmRoqmtLoc[/youtube]

-JD
 
First, thanks for the tip on getting the BB Tool to work. Is a good reminder even if someone already knows the technique.

Second, that Ktrack does look to be a sweet piece of kit and glad to know it is well made. I had a picture of one being riden with a rooster tail of snow as my work avatar for the winter. Found it by googling images for "winter bike".

Lastly, Dang you for startig a mid-drive build on a Tidal Force S-750 and then posting it in the TF Frame build thread where I was looking. :evil: I had finally made up my mind to go with an eZee kit for mine as my first build after debating DD vs geared hub vs mid-drive in my head for months. Now I'm debating again. :shock:

Looking forward to the build and of course videos. Not much snow in GA and had not thought about the Ktrack being useful on sand.
Mainly I am interested in the EcoSpeed on the TF 750. I'm still working out a battery box for the triangle on mine. Have mocked up several coroplast folded origamish creations since I don't know when/if ashlandelectricbikes is going to make that sweet looking triangle kit available. Does remind me I have to get icecube57 to build a harness for my other project.

Subscribed ... first one I've ever subscribed too ... finally noticed the link for subscribing :oops:
 
Thanks itsmedco!

Yeah, I haven't seen snow in 17 years, but I here in LA can drive about an hour to the mountains to get to it. I think a hubbie is an excellent choice for a first build, cheaper and less work and challanges when one already has plenty of new things to learn. That said, I am probably biased towards hubbies, and with the BB trick mastered this Ecospeed is looking pretty simple to install, so maybe I will revise that opinion after I finish.

If you find that rooster tail pic, please post it!

-JD
 
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The kit is firmly mounted via the BB, and the pipe clamp (which was just barely long enough to fit) more than sufficient to hold the motor. I put a bit of folded up-inner tube between the primary plate and the bottom of the downtube, to protect it, as well as under the screw on the pipe clamp.

There is play between the freewheel and the chainring, and I fear this will become an issue in short order. All the bolts are tight, I think it is a construction issue. I think Tad said their current version, using a white industries freewheel, is $650.

I'll be installing the BMC controller that came with the kit next; EcoSpeed reported that those controllers either died fast or worked forever. Their current kit comes with a custom 60v/25a controller, I think that was $600-$650 too. It is difficult for me to align that price point with a controller less than 120v/300a, but perhaps this is a case of made in USA vs cheap chinese crap. However, I already have a vast collection of controllers I can experimant with, so...
 
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It quickly became apparent that it will be more effective to build this out as a regular eBike, before adding the complexity of the ktrak.

I Spot-Welded together (CLICK HERE FOR LINK) a 12s1p pack of cell_man (korean) 20ah a123 cells for the Ecospeed, and slapped my old ammo-can front battery case on the forks to hold it - picture below. If I like the bike when it is done, I'll build an elegant triangle pack instead from 1.1ah a123 round cells.

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I got the rest of the basic bike stuff sorted out on the mule, brakes and tires and handlebars and grips etc. The EcoSpeed upgrade parts and the Ktrak were the only things I needed to buy for the whole build, everything else was in the spares I had leftover from old builds/teardowns. My wife may not agree, but the nice thing about being this hobby for so long, is the big pile of spares and tools one accummulates. Having everything on hand helped the bike come together pretty fast.

I made a little plate to mount the controller on the water bottle holder, and ran the wires where I think I want them. All I have left to do is dress the wires to hold them in place and conceal them, then the bike will be ready to ride... But it will be a few weeks before I have any time to work on it again. In the meantime, here are some pics of its current state:

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Would love to see an update on this with more details on the build and info and on how the EcoSpeed mid-drive is working. Have you ran the KTrack setup yet?
 
itsmedc65 said:
Would love to see an update on this with more details on the build and info and on how the EcoSpeed mid-drive is working. Have you ran the KTrack setup yet?

Thanks for your interest! :D My Dune Buggy conversion project (link in signature) started coming together in the beginning of April, which pulled me away from this project and consumed all my free time since. It is ready for its test ride, but currently buried under the parts I pulled off the dune buggy, so I need to complete that project to excavate the ecotrak and resume this one.

-JD
 
oatnet said:
itsmedc65 said:
Would love to see an update on this with more details on the build and info and on how the EcoSpeed mid-drive is working. Have you ran the KTrack setup yet?

Thanks for your interest! :D My Dune Buggy conversion project (link in signature) started coming together in the beginning of April, which pulled me away from this project and consumed all my free time since. It is ready for its test ride, but currently buried under the parts I pulled off the dune buggy, so I need to complete that project to excavate the ecotrak and resume this one.

-JD

This year our winter just does not want to end. As I was sitting at home one night a few weeks ago, when 20cm of snow was falling, dreaming of warm weather to go riding my mid drive Kona, I found the Ktrak kit on the web. I had never even heard of such of thing existed. Well that got me to looking on ES and posting asking if anyone had attempted installing these on a mid drive bike and I was quickly referenced to your thread. Thank you for sharing your project, that was the last bit of encouragement I needed and went ahead and bought me a kit with the quickest shipping they were willing to offer.

I had already finished my mid drive build last spring, spent the season riding on it and I absolute love mid drives. So the bike just needed a small tune up and was ready for the Ktrak. I got it finished 2 nights ago, in the middle of another 30cm snow storm. I have been out riding it hard for the last 2 days. Does not feel anything like riding a bike and takes some getting used to. But it is an absolute blast in the snow.

Thanks again for sharing.

Wishes
 
JD has done it all.

any design you can imagine, any battery placement or battery build you can imagine, he has done it, and his work is so sublime in just pure skill that it is an honor to read and reread the stuff he has done.

it is like we all find we are doing something now that he did already, except he does everything so meticulously, so carefully planned, it is just amazing to those of us who do like to do stuff. always an inspiration.

plus i now have one of the Tidalforce frames he had the foresight to purchase in bulk when they went under. best frames in the world for ebikes. waiting for my 5304.
 
Nice job, Wishes! :D

I am glad it is working out for you, and find your comments about track width and power requirements interesting. Do you think the problems in soft snow could be fixed with an improved front ski that floats better, or is it just the power required to push the snow out of the way? Maybe a combination snowblower/ktrak would solve it :lol: Congrats on pulling it off! :mrgreen:

Wow thanks dnmun, that is such high praise you made me blush! :oops: I like try everything I can to expand my vocabulary of what is possibile, but there are so many here who know so much more than I do, and so many more who build so much better, that I am a hack by comparison . :lol: I hope I have contributed even a fraction of the experience that others here have educated me with.

On the TF frame - congrats on the score, those S-750 frames are great, and very hard to find now. You have probably anticipated this (and my be one of the many who seek it out) but the short wheelbase of the S-750 can make it a wheelie machine with high power... If you put 10kw through your 5304 on an S-750 you will spend more time with your nose in the air than a debutante in Tijuana. :mrgreen:

-JD
 
oatnet said:
Nice job, Wishes! :D

I am glad it is working out for you, and find your comments about track width and power requirements interesting. Do you think the problems in soft snow could be fixed with an improved front ski that floats better, or is it just the power required to push the snow out of the way? Maybe a combination snowblower/ktrak would solve it :lol: Congrats on pulling it off! :mrgreen:
-JD


The front ski was not sinking and was doing a good job of semi floating through the deep snow. It was the back that was sinking. The motor has to fight against forward resistance of the ski on the snow and turning the track. Compared to turning 2 wheels it is a huge difference. I think that you also get a lifting effect. As those pads on the track scoop up snow and push it under the track and behind, it has to lift part of the bike's weight. I think those combinations is what cause the 4kw peaks i was seeing treading through deep snow.

You have to keep in mind that these were designed by 2 guys out in Western Canada with the original objective to use them for downhill riding. You can rent DH bikes equipped with these Ktrak kits at some of the ski mountains in BC Canada. They take you and the bike up by chairlift and you have a blast going downhill. Although they have tried to market these for more than just downhill applications. You won't get very far trying to pedal one of these on a flat unless your some professional athlete.

BTW, locktight every bolt and screw on that ktrak kit. I lost quite a few in my first few rides.

Good luck with finishing your project.

Wishes
 
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