Another Outlaw SS

Gator

10 mW
Joined
May 9, 2013
Messages
28
Location
Florida
I know….first post….the RED FLAGS are up!

I will try and make this as short as I can. I’m an engineer, not a marketeer so if my grammer is bad, oh well….and I won’t bore you with superlatives….

I am pretty much a noob to bikes. I have a Townie that I ride every few weeks in the hood with my wife. I’m a retired electrical engineer with bad knees and been messing with electric RC planes for about 5 years, I love electrics!

A friend showed me his Outlaw SS and I then was in search of an electric bike. I didn’t want to build my first one and didn’t want to spend $4-5K, $2K was doable.

I ordered an Outlaw from Electric Bike Shop in Florida. They were competitive with the internet and someone I could talk to. Ordered on Thursday, received it on the next Wednesday. Happy with that.

Took about an hour to unpack, mount the handlebars, and plug into the charger.

I’m not gonna spend time telling you how good something is that I don’t know anything about. It rolls, it stops, it’s quiet, it goes by itself, it’s fun so far. It is a little top heavy, it got away from me once.

I can talk about what needs improvement. My motivation is maybe Prodeco will improve so I can buy a better one in a few years or maybe one of you guys can help me improve it.

1. The battery indicator on the battery reads the same fully charged and fully discharged. I mentioned it to my friend who has an Outlaw and he laughed….his did to!
2. After my first 20 mile ride I took a closer look. Both the front and rear discs were not centered on the calipers and rubbing to the point that it was difficult to pedal without electric assist. The manual had an adjustment for caliper - disc alignment, but it did not solve my problem. The easiest solution I could come up with was to shim the caliper mount on the rear and the disc on the front. Think it was about .035”. After that I had the discs centered in the calipers and it was a new bike! Much easier to pedal. Is shimming OK?
3. It came with a free pannier that would not connect to the bike with the sewed in straps, it must be for a different bike. I cut some of my own webbing and got it to work. The pannier covers the battery and makes the bike a bit more stealth.
4. There is very little info on the charger. I have no idea how smart it is or if it will heat up the battery if left on indefinitely. It took about 8 hours to charge my first time. More info needed!
5. It had a noticeable click in the rear wheel every revolution. I checked many bolts and screws for tightness and found many loose spokes. After tightening, the click want away.
6. The left break lever would pull all the way to the hand grip, needed adjustment
7. My first long ride was a bit hard on my thumb…got to build that thumb muscle….

If I had 1 wish…….Give me a 1 hour (1C) charger….or better yet, 5C! All my RC batteries charge at 5C!!! I will gladly trade off # of cycles for charge time!

Oh yeah, I can ride it no handed! Ha!

I’ve been lurking here and know most of you guys are builder / hobbists, most can build a better cheaper bike, so keep in mind I’m a noob coming up the ladder!

I'll let ya know how it holds up....
 
1. There are devices like speedict, cycleanalyst, and other watt meters. Speedict and cycleanalyst can do much more than act as a sort of fuel gauge, but I'll let you research that.

2+6 sound like the same issue, your brakes need adjustments, I doubt it'd be easy to spell out what they would be without at least being there in person, but I suggest watching videos online for making adjustments. Rubbing brakes = friction, friction will slow you down and if you don't have functional brakes, you might find yourself in a bad situation. I'd fix that before going for another ride.

3. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12847 You might browse/read this thread for ideas on battery containers that might suit you.

4. It's hard to say anything about a charger without any information on it. I could guess, but whats the point. Based on your further information, it sounds like you'd prefer to use lipo batteries for your ebike rather than what you are using. If you understand the dangers that go along with lipo, you could switch to lipo on your bike very easily.

5. Look into nord lock washers. Even if you use nord lock, I'd still recommend checking the tightness of various critical nuts. I was hearing a strange noise recently on my bike, turn out to be out of the bolts on the rack. People have destroyed dropouts because they let a nut get loose, it'd be better to keep things tight.

7. Have you considered a twist throttle?
 
bowlofsalad said:
1. There are devices like speedict, cycleanalyst, and other watt meters. Speedict and cycleanalyst can do much more than act as a sort of fuel gauge, but I'll let you research that.

2+6 sound like the same issue, your brakes need adjustments, I doubt it'd be easy to spell out what they would be without at least being there in person, but I suggest watching videos online for making adjustments. Rubbing brakes = friction, friction will slow you down and if you don't have functional brakes, you might find yourself in a bad situation. I'd fix that before going for another ride.

3. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12847 You might browse/read this thread for ideas on battery containers that might suit you.

4. It's hard to say anything about a charger without any information on it. I could guess, but whats the point. Based on your further information, it sounds like you'd prefer to use lipo batteries for your ebike rather than what you are using. If you understand the dangers that go along with lipo, you could switch to lipo on your bike very easily.

5. Look into nord lock washers. Even if you use nord lock, I'd still recommend checking the tightness of various critical nuts. I was hearing a strange noise recently on my bike, turn out to be out of the bolts on the rack. People have destroyed dropouts because they let a nut get loose, it'd be better to keep things tight.

7. Have you considered a twist throttle?

Thanks for the reply.
My brakes are working great after I shimmed them, my gut feel is manufacturing tolerances are out, I'll search for some videos on adjustment, good idea.
Battery containers and front mount will be looked into.
I would prefer not to use lipos. I would prefer Lifepo4 or A123. My airplane A123's charge at 5C and are safe, no packs made out of A123 for bikes? I've seen to many lipo fires.....Prodeco won't divulge who manufacturers their cells so there is no way to tell if a faster charge is ok.
I'll search on the nord locks and twist throttle
thanks
 
bowlofsalad said:
1. There are devices like speedict, cycleanalyst, and other watt meters. Speedict and cycleanalyst can do much more than act as a sort of fuel gauge, but I'll let you research that.
quote]
speedict mercury looks awesome, like the bluetooth to phone idea
I have my iphone on a ram mount now for speed, miles, incline, lat/lon, maps.....
thanks
 
This is the thumb throttle to get, properly weatherproofed, smooth & easy on the thumb high quality part made for E-Maxi & MiPower Bikes I think A2B Metro's & other TDCM Ultra motor equipped bikes makes it.
It's like night & day I had the sore Prodeco thumb too for the month I owned one before selling it.
 

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Gator: It looks they still spec a fork that is way too long for the frame. The handling of your bike will benefit greatly if you have a qualified shop shorten the travel of your fork with shorter springs and longer bushing spacers-- to bring the ride height, frame angles, and steering trail closer to normal. Or you could sell the long fork and buy a short-travel model, or a rigid fork as you prefer.

I think that Prodeco's decision to fit their fastest model with a fork that seriously impairs its handling is a bad idea. It's understandable, since they are in fact pandering to the "more is better" crowd with that model. But the end result is a bike whose temperament will make it less enjoyable and more prone to crashing than if they did it right (e.g. used a correct length fork or else manufactured a frame designed for the longer fork).
 
migueralliart said:
Please post some pictures...

And don't post the ones in the prodeco webpage please.
ha ha, ok, I'll get some tomarrow
weather finally got nice, had to go fishing today....spring has been cold, hope my electric carbon footprint offsets global warming.....living a few feet above sealevel is dicey......hijacked my own thread....ok, pics tomarrow!
 
50yearoldebiker said:
This is the thumb throttle to get, properly weatherproofed, smooth & easy on the thumb high quality part made for E-Maxi & MiPower Bikes I think A2B Metro's & other TDCM Ultra motor equipped bikes makes it.
It's like night & day I had the sore Prodeco thumb too for the month I owned one before selling it.
I'll look into that. If it is an easy drop in......may do it.
I guess anything I do now starts to void warranties so may wait till I get her through the infant mortality and early life failure stage.....I did some time in a reliability engineering cage.....another word for work.....think I'll ride it stock till I am confident all the early life failures didn't happen!
 
Chalo said:
Gator: It looks they still spec a fork that is way too long for the frame. The handling of your bike will benefit greatly if you have a qualified shop shorten the travel of your fork with shorter springs and longer bushing spacers-- to bring the ride height, frame angles, and steering trail closer to normal. Or you could sell the long fork and buy a short-travel model, or a rigid fork as you prefer.

I think that Prodeco's decision to fit their fastest model with a fork that seriously impairs its handling is a bad idea. It's understandable, since they are in fact pandering to the "more is better" crowd with that model. But the end result is a bike whose temperament will make it less enjoyable and more prone to crashing than if they did it right (e.g. used a correct length fork or else manufactured a frame designed for the longer fork).

I'm afraid I'm too much a noob to understand what you said, I'm sure once I fall off it I will reread and research further.
It seems the shocks bearly move as it is, they seem very stiff. are you saying I should lower the front and put shorter travel springs in?

nice hat!
 
migueralliart said:
Please post some pictures...

And don't post the ones in the prodeco webpage please.
OK, not glammer pics, just snapped them in the garage.
first one is iphone on ram mount that I swapped off my dirt bike. I'm getting a shorter arm, like the mount! bike HUD app!
second, ...don't laugh to hard....my boney butt couldn't take the stock seat....swaped the fat seat off my Townie :mrgreen:
third....pannier baggs make her stealth! and carry REI beach chair, cooler of beer, and lock to beach!
forth....can you find what's wrong with this pic....or the 3 pics before.....?
having fun with this bike..!!
 

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Gator said:
are you saying I should lower the front and put shorter travel springs in?

That would be best, yes. Whatever you can do to get the front end of the bike lower down will improve its handling qualities.

nice hat!

Thanks; that's Oscar.
 
Gator said:
bowlofsalad said:
1. There are devices like speedict, cycleanalyst, and other watt meters. Speedict and cycleanalyst can do much more than act as a sort of fuel gauge, but I'll let you research that.
quote]
speedict mercury looks awesome, like the bluetooth to phone idea
I have my iphone on a ram mount now for speed, miles, incline, lat/lon, maps.....
thanks

I like the idea of the speedict, but I wish it wasn't wireless. Maybe I am just being paranoid or something like that, but I'd prefer wired mostly on the notion of dropping a signal, that'd be bad news. I often carry around a smartphone just as a sort of tiny speaker to play music with, it's just barely audible, whatever is playing, at speed and doesn't really interfere with my situational awareness.

You can get a123 packs, I have one myself. I purchased the pack from em3ev.com. If you were really adventurous, you could buy individual a123 cells and assemble a pack yourself. I don't think lipo is worth the risk that goes with it, but to each their own. I don't know a lot about charging rates though, that might be something you can learn more about asking questions.
 
I find wireless to be relible and like that custom apps can be found or made.
I have lots of experience charging Lipos & A123 &LifoPo4, I have many parallel charge setups and charge mostly 5C, I often balance charge 6 batteries in parallel in just under 15 minutes. You have to have a honkin' powersupply and charger though! Say you have a good 1000 watt powersupply and charger, on a 50V battery that would be about 20 amps, on a 10 AH battery that would be 2C and charge in 30 minutes, that should be doable in a reasonable formfactor....
an example of 2C is say you have a 1AH battery, it can safely be charged at 2 amps. The tradeoff is usually fewer charge cycles.

so do the math, Prodeco says warranty is 2 years and 2000 cycles, charges in 4 hours (that is a .25C charge rate)
if I ride once a day and charge, that is 730 charge cycles in 2 years (the warranty period)
if I ride twice a day say and charge inbetween, that is 1460 charge cycles in 2 years (the warranty

in reality, how I ride: few times a week, maybe twice in one day.....so thats 400 cycles in 2 years (the warranty period)
for me, if I could charge at 1C (1hour) or 2C (about 30 minutes), I could ride 20 miles, eat lunch while charging, and ride back
say that reduces my charge cycles to 500 (every battery manufacturer varies on cycles vs charge rate, so this is a conservative SWAG)
so now my battery wears out right about the time my warranty gives out
what did it cost me? say $300 over 2 years and 400 rides.....aboute a buck a ride
I say it again so hopefully manufacturers will listen: I will gladly trade off charge cycles for charge rate
I could be wrong........it's happened......
did happen....checked my math and edited! :mrgreen:
 
I realize the manufacturer is in a bind. There is no way to warranty a slow charge battery for 2 years and a fast charge battery for say 500 cycles over 2 years. No way I know of to determine what rate a battery was charged at. If they give out the specs to the battery, they encourage hobbiests to charge at higher rates and if they do it every day the batteries will fail prior to 2 years......there lies the problem.....giving out the specs opens pandora's box

I may have to build my own with no warranty
 
I was able to take my first long ride yeaterday, about 18 miles over roads, sidewalks, with about 4 miles of off road Florida weeds / sand/ leaves....pretty loose ground. Im a novice and did not feel comfortable over 10 mph on loose ground. On tight turns I could feel the high / rear CG and it felt a bit unstable. I may be putting together a triangle battery or maybe Prodeco is working on one I hope I could retrofit. Big tires worked find in the loose sand. Bike feels stable on streets and sidewalks but I did loose concentration once and bumped a curve and lost it into grass. I kinda felt it went past the point of no return quick but like I said, I'm pretty much a novice bike and e-bike rider. Time will tell.

All other functions were fine. Went 18 miles, brakes stopped at full speed with index finger only, it's pretty quiet, fat tires were good in sand. I hit many sand spurs and a few cactus along the way and was expecting to have to walk it home....cheated a flat that day.....

I made a comment about liking phone bike monitor apps the other day, yesterday I found out that they drain the phone in 3-4 hours so I may be changing my mind to dedicated bike monitoring systems.
 
Be careful on sand like sandy patches in the street, it's like ice you will faceplant if not careful.
Maybe you should get a cheap regular bike & get the basics down a bit before going all out on that Outlaw.
Is that the 28 MPH top speed Outlaw model ?
 
Thanks for the suggestions...I've had a few mountain bikes and 250cc dirtbikes in my day so I think I have the basics. I just need to adjust to this bike.
I just never went much past the novice stage on a bike, been on a lot of expert trails with the 250cc....Look up Taylor Park in Colorado, that was my back yard.

Yes it is a SS in SE clothing.....wolf in sheeps clothing....I didn't like the eye catching Orange so I ordered the white SE with the SS hub. good eye.
 
I haven't really looked into myself (yet), but I am betting there is a way to add a usb charge plug to your bike for your phone.
 
bowlofsalad said:
I haven't really looked into myself (yet), but I am betting there is a way to add a usb charge plug to your bike for your phone.
yes, being an EE, that I could figure out pretty quick and may do it.
Maybe a plug in where the charger goes and just a zener diode to drop the voltage to usb levels.....I'll put that on my list
 
I'm not sure why Prodeco sells the Outlaw's that go 20 MPH & 28 MPH for the same price ?
Maybe I'm missing something but they are both $ 2250.00 delivered @ least you got the faster one
The white is nice, enjoy it maybe I'll meet up with you when I get down to Florida for a drag race, LOL :D
 
Gator said:
I hit many sand spurs and a few cactus along the way and was expecting to have to walk it home....cheated a flat that day.....

I spoke to soon, front was flat today.....need to get some bullet proof tubes, sand spurs are nasty..... :(
 
loading the bike on a bike rack was less than optimal. I needed to loosen some zip ties and reroute control wires and hoses, they are mounted in a chaff prone area. I'm not sure mounting on the seat post battery mount is ok for anything but short trips without the battery on. I did lift the bike off the rear bike mount and it didn't seem like there was to much weight on it.

mounting the rear in the frame triangle would be better but there was a control line that needs to be rerouted first.

Something I wish the Prodeco folks would think about in the future....maybe it's just not meant to be transported by bike rack?
 

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50yearoldebiker said:
I'm not sure why Prodeco sells the Outlaw's that go 20 MPH & 28 MPH for the same price ?
I'm guessing the only difference between the two bikes is an inexpensive rev limiter so they are the same price. One street legal, one offrroad only.
 
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