For those who haven't seen this bike yet, follow this link:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=395
So here it is! What you’ve all been waiting for! Time for the cyclone 500 watt build review! After a few weeks of daily use, a range test, a flat and a number of adjustments, I’ve had a chance to put on some real world miles on the bikeâ€â€Âalmost 80 miles according to the ODO and in a word, my experience with the kit has been… a disappointment… but only moderately so-- let me explain.
1. top speed is around 22 ~ 23 mph (I was expecting closer to 30 mph)
2. range at 20 mph is not much better than gohub (crystalyte 408) around 14 miles with 28v @ 12 ah (I was expecting closer to 20 miles)
BUT!!! (and there are a lot of buts) I still like the bike. But first, a continuation of the negatives of the kit:
3. it’s very mechanical. Because it uses the same drive train, I’m still feeling the occasional slipping of either the freewheel crank or the internal hub (but only when I peddle as hard as I can). I worry about the stress I’m putting on these components and also the chain. I already replaced all the screws that attached the main sprocket to the crank freewheel. Three of the five screws had already fallen off before I noticed the problem. I’ve also already had to tighten the bottom bracket screws since installing the kit. The cranks are not as solid as they were when I had the cartridge bearings and old spindle before the conversion. I’m still a little worried about the durability of the chain drive, freewheel crank and nexus internal hub. But if anything does go wrong, I can repair or replace things myself.
4. the motor hangs low on the bike and I worry a little about its vulnerability there.
5. while it has gears, you spend most of your time in 2nd (more on this later) at a speed less than 20mph.
6. being only 24 ~ 29 volts and drawing up to almost 40 amps, you don’t want to be using SLA nor NiMH with this kit. The voltage sag is just too annoying. The cyclone kit obviously prefers Lithium.
7. speaking of voltage sag, the “battery meterâ€￾ is really just a voltage sag indicator and has no intelligence whatsoever.
8. the controller is internal inside the motor housing so the motor gets warm after a ride. This leaves questions about long term reliability.
And finally now for the positives:
1. It’s really light! Only 55 lbs! (soon to be 60 after I get a few more Milwaukee batts) It really doesn’t ride any different than a normal manual bike.
2. It really freewheels. No batteries? No problem! Unlike the hub motor, there’s no drag above 10 mph-- not that this is normally a huge problem anyway since most mortal human beings pedal around 10 mph on a manual bike anyway. If my batteries died and I had to peddle home, I’d MUCH rather do it on the cyclone.
3. While you spend most of your time in 2nd, if you have access to the granny gear (which I don’t since I don’t have the right shifter for my nexus internal hub) you can tackle hills efficiently. Gears after 2nd, you should consider them overdrive gears. You need to choose the overdrive gear wisely otherwise you bog down the motor and start wasting amps. A drain brain would be very handy for this but I don’t have one yet. You spend most of your time in 2nd gear at around 18 or 19 mph but if you’re willing to peddle, you can very easily get to 27mph. So performance wise, overall this bike is not THAT much different than the go-hub at 56v or the WE brushed at 36v. The only thing with the peddling, you will want to peddle quickly so that the motor can help you at its highest efficiency.
4. It has great torque. Even in 2nd gear, it accelerates very nicelyâ€â€Âmuch faster than the go-hub. The bike gives you the impression that you’re riding a lot faster than you actually are. 22 mph feels a lot closer to 25 mph. Even with the better torque and acceleration, it’s more efficient than the go-hub but the torque drops off quickly as the rpms build. For around-town riding, it’s quicker than a single speed hub motor up to 18 mph while being a little more efficient but the go-hub has more top end speed (about 26 mph) and mid range torque at 56v. Again, you have to keep in mind that the cyclone kit is operating only at 28v! It’s actually pretty amazing performance at just 28v.
The cyclone has become my daily rider, mostly because it’s lighter but also I like the feeling of driving the rear wheels. The front hub now feels a little coarse and twitchy by comparison. When I accelerate hard on the hub motor, I really feel vibrations in the handle bars.
Despite obviously being a motor strapped to the bottom bracket, it’s still quite small and stealthy. When you’re stopped at the light, your leg will block the view of the motor to just about everybody. Since the controller is in the motor housing, there’s no tell-tale black controller box. The whine from the motor is subtle. If the rpms are lower, it sounds exactly like those generator headlamps they used to make-- the one with a small metal wheel that is pressed up against the bike tire. I don’t know if anyone remembers those.
If recommending a kit to someone wanting to get into ebikes for the first time, I would recommend a hub motorâ€â€Âonly because the installation is simpler, there are less mechanical things to worry about and hub motors have a proven track record for reliability. Hub motors, despite having only one speed, are remarkably efficient and can be very fast (look at the phoenix/x5). You can also install a hub motor on a wider range of bikes. It’s not easy finding a bike with enough room by the bottom bracket to install this cyclone kit. A lot of bike frames have the kick stand mount welded to the frame in this area that gets in the way and makes mounting the kit even more of a pain. I would definitely recommend this kit to someone planning to ride up and down hills on a regular basis though. In this situation, the advantage of gears cannot be ignored.
The cyclone distributor, Jim Olsen, still claims that the kit is capable of 30 mph… in a bike with a 26â€￾ wheel. Since my bike is using a 24â€￾ wheel, there’s a small chance this could be the reason I’m not seeing 30 mph. I have my doubts. Perhaps when I get more time and money I’ll try it on a even lighter bike with maybe 700c wheels.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=395
So here it is! What you’ve all been waiting for! Time for the cyclone 500 watt build review! After a few weeks of daily use, a range test, a flat and a number of adjustments, I’ve had a chance to put on some real world miles on the bikeâ€â€Âalmost 80 miles according to the ODO and in a word, my experience with the kit has been… a disappointment… but only moderately so-- let me explain.
1. top speed is around 22 ~ 23 mph (I was expecting closer to 30 mph)
2. range at 20 mph is not much better than gohub (crystalyte 408) around 14 miles with 28v @ 12 ah (I was expecting closer to 20 miles)
BUT!!! (and there are a lot of buts) I still like the bike. But first, a continuation of the negatives of the kit:
3. it’s very mechanical. Because it uses the same drive train, I’m still feeling the occasional slipping of either the freewheel crank or the internal hub (but only when I peddle as hard as I can). I worry about the stress I’m putting on these components and also the chain. I already replaced all the screws that attached the main sprocket to the crank freewheel. Three of the five screws had already fallen off before I noticed the problem. I’ve also already had to tighten the bottom bracket screws since installing the kit. The cranks are not as solid as they were when I had the cartridge bearings and old spindle before the conversion. I’m still a little worried about the durability of the chain drive, freewheel crank and nexus internal hub. But if anything does go wrong, I can repair or replace things myself.
4. the motor hangs low on the bike and I worry a little about its vulnerability there.
5. while it has gears, you spend most of your time in 2nd (more on this later) at a speed less than 20mph.
6. being only 24 ~ 29 volts and drawing up to almost 40 amps, you don’t want to be using SLA nor NiMH with this kit. The voltage sag is just too annoying. The cyclone kit obviously prefers Lithium.
7. speaking of voltage sag, the “battery meterâ€￾ is really just a voltage sag indicator and has no intelligence whatsoever.
8. the controller is internal inside the motor housing so the motor gets warm after a ride. This leaves questions about long term reliability.
And finally now for the positives:
1. It’s really light! Only 55 lbs! (soon to be 60 after I get a few more Milwaukee batts) It really doesn’t ride any different than a normal manual bike.
2. It really freewheels. No batteries? No problem! Unlike the hub motor, there’s no drag above 10 mph-- not that this is normally a huge problem anyway since most mortal human beings pedal around 10 mph on a manual bike anyway. If my batteries died and I had to peddle home, I’d MUCH rather do it on the cyclone.
3. While you spend most of your time in 2nd, if you have access to the granny gear (which I don’t since I don’t have the right shifter for my nexus internal hub) you can tackle hills efficiently. Gears after 2nd, you should consider them overdrive gears. You need to choose the overdrive gear wisely otherwise you bog down the motor and start wasting amps. A drain brain would be very handy for this but I don’t have one yet. You spend most of your time in 2nd gear at around 18 or 19 mph but if you’re willing to peddle, you can very easily get to 27mph. So performance wise, overall this bike is not THAT much different than the go-hub at 56v or the WE brushed at 36v. The only thing with the peddling, you will want to peddle quickly so that the motor can help you at its highest efficiency.
4. It has great torque. Even in 2nd gear, it accelerates very nicelyâ€â€Âmuch faster than the go-hub. The bike gives you the impression that you’re riding a lot faster than you actually are. 22 mph feels a lot closer to 25 mph. Even with the better torque and acceleration, it’s more efficient than the go-hub but the torque drops off quickly as the rpms build. For around-town riding, it’s quicker than a single speed hub motor up to 18 mph while being a little more efficient but the go-hub has more top end speed (about 26 mph) and mid range torque at 56v. Again, you have to keep in mind that the cyclone kit is operating only at 28v! It’s actually pretty amazing performance at just 28v.
The cyclone has become my daily rider, mostly because it’s lighter but also I like the feeling of driving the rear wheels. The front hub now feels a little coarse and twitchy by comparison. When I accelerate hard on the hub motor, I really feel vibrations in the handle bars.
Despite obviously being a motor strapped to the bottom bracket, it’s still quite small and stealthy. When you’re stopped at the light, your leg will block the view of the motor to just about everybody. Since the controller is in the motor housing, there’s no tell-tale black controller box. The whine from the motor is subtle. If the rpms are lower, it sounds exactly like those generator headlamps they used to make-- the one with a small metal wheel that is pressed up against the bike tire. I don’t know if anyone remembers those.
If recommending a kit to someone wanting to get into ebikes for the first time, I would recommend a hub motorâ€â€Âonly because the installation is simpler, there are less mechanical things to worry about and hub motors have a proven track record for reliability. Hub motors, despite having only one speed, are remarkably efficient and can be very fast (look at the phoenix/x5). You can also install a hub motor on a wider range of bikes. It’s not easy finding a bike with enough room by the bottom bracket to install this cyclone kit. A lot of bike frames have the kick stand mount welded to the frame in this area that gets in the way and makes mounting the kit even more of a pain. I would definitely recommend this kit to someone planning to ride up and down hills on a regular basis though. In this situation, the advantage of gears cannot be ignored.
The cyclone distributor, Jim Olsen, still claims that the kit is capable of 30 mph… in a bike with a 26â€￾ wheel. Since my bike is using a 24â€￾ wheel, there’s a small chance this could be the reason I’m not seeing 30 mph. I have my doubts. Perhaps when I get more time and money I’ll try it on a even lighter bike with maybe 700c wheels.
500W in to an X5 and its only just turning! ha ha :lol: still they are good lumps for sure.
