Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

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byebyepetrol   100 W

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Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 22 2014 6:57am

Dillenger 250w 36v 10Ah kit

Dillenger Bikes Australia
http://dillenger.com.au/

Commuter Worker Bee
Allow me to introduce myself, I'm a bike commuter going on 10yrs firstly on a Principia alloy then to a carbon roadie. Off-road is taken care of using a 2007 Sintesi Alloy MTB and a top-spec Chinese carbon hardtail MTB.
Most of my time on a bike is spent commuting but love touring and look forward to more international touring adventures in the future.

Image

With my work office shifting 10km further away I'd been looking around for a conversion kit for about 3 months to soften the blow of the extra distance and I was drawn to this conversion kit mostly because of its "plug n' play" nature.

Image



First Impressions
Email communication with Dillenger is excellent; quick and easy to understand.

Packaging is top-notch. All parts cushioned in EPP foam and lots of bags to separate components.

The instructions are dire. Hardly worth the paper / pixels. If you're new to bicycle mechanics you'll find it frustrating. I assembled the bike simply by instinct and had to back-track a few times. Thankfully all wiring is colour coded and keyed to prevent misalignment and bent pins.

There's no "helicopter view" of the process and no introduction. There's no instructions on how to use the display or the mode selector switch. There's no instruction on insertion / removal of the battery, no explanation of the behaviour of the blue power led (if you push it to turn it off it takes a couple of minutes to fade out so I discovered). I have to assume the written instructions are incomplete and simply translated from Chinese with little editing for comprehension. There's few "hints" in the instructions. I'd like to have seen advice on how to rout the wiring for stealth, how to mount the front wheel (the keyed lug-spacers can only go in one way). The instructions feature sweeping statements about checking the wiring and making sure the nuts are done up without any truly useful info.

The FAQ on the website answered half my questions. The other half I answered myself through discovery. Nowhere is battery regen mentioned. I have to assume it's not a feature of this kit. I've heard it's not that effective so I'm not fussed.

Installation
This kit was going on my 26" carbon hardtail. I Mounted a Schwalbe Racing Ralph (knobbly tread) on the Dillenger wheel and left the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme (slick tread) on the back for low rolling resistance there.
The flanged wheel nut and washer (see photo below) wouldn't fit the On-One forks at first so I had to replace those with nuts with no flange and had to remove 1.5mm from the washer's radius and had to remove material from the fork lugs. 4" angle grinder to the rescue and bastard file to finish.

Image


Battery mount worked well with clearances all around to prevent possible scratches on the frame. Supplied cable ties are frail. Replace those with ones that don't break if you breathe on them. Three keys are supplied for the battery lock. The insertion / removal process is fiddly and needs practice to get right.

Image


Twist throttle, LCD panel and 3-switch panel (mode button and up/down assistance level buttons) was easy to mount and locate. Wiring leads were flexible and easy to manage.


Road Test
The crank sensor will be installed asap but I couldn't wait thanks to fading light I took it for a spin (it works without the sensor). Turn battery on (depress push button on side of pack...it should light up with a blueish hue to indicate "live") then hold mode button down on the 3 -switch panel to power-up the LCD which should now indicate power levels, speed, odo, assistance level and time.

Under load It's quiet. It's actually drowned-out by the rear cluster (which is surprisingly LOUD).

Conclusion
Conclusion is inconclusive so until I fit the pedal sensor and stealth the wiring a little better this is just a dress-rehearsal.
Stay tuned for more on this conversion kit.

Image

Chris Adams

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 22 2014 5:24pm

PAS is a PITA
Pedal Assist Sensor (PSA) is next to be mounted. The manual illustrates the process using a 1980s clunker
and everything goes on as it should but for a more modern frame / crank combo it requires more thought and effort.


The hall sensor bracket simply can't work with the thick carbon layup and a new bracket needs to be fabricated and secured
with resin / fabric or simply double-sided tape as a quick fix (but not long-term):
Image


The magnet ring needs modification to clear SLX BB :
Image

Using the BB ring as a template, the magnet ring can be modified to provide clearance:
Image

With clearance done it's then a matter of hoping it doesn't clash with the smallest chainwheel or front DR and the magnets hold it in place.

So it's out with the coping saw and have at it :roll:

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jateureka   10 kW

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by jateureka » Jan 22 2014 6:57pm

With the PAS sensor, you could try removing the sensor from the mount, flipping the mount over and re-attaching the sensor. This will give you a few more mm clearance, as it will no longer be the mount but the sensor that will be the limiting factor, may be enough?

With the magnet ring, some have removed the magnets and mounted them direct to the cahin ring. Note which way they go as some are N-S sensitive.
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 22 2014 7:23pm

Modification in Progress

5 mins with Dremel bandsaw and 10 mins with sandpaper and we have clearance.

Image


Ring is almost concentric and the magnets keep it there. Not perfect and will need further refinement.
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Sensor wouldn't get near the magnets so further mods needed.
Image


Material removed from sensor:
Image


Secured with hot glue. Thinners used to clean area then both surfaces roughed-up with sandpaper:
Image


It actually works! I had doubts it would.

LCD is clear and designed for ease of interpretation IMHO:
Image

Next up to is to hide this awful mess. The brake lever switching leads aren't used. Would it be safe to simply cut them off?
It's open circuit anyway so I expect they could be cut.

Image


Heroshot:
Image

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jateureka   10 kW

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by jateureka » Jan 22 2014 9:25pm

Nice job on the install.
byebyepetrol wrote: First Impressions
..... The instructions are dire. .... I'd like to have seen advice on ... how to mount the front wheel (the keyed lug-spacers can only go in one way).

Installation
..... The flanged wheel nut and washer wouldn't fit the On-One forks at first so I had to replace those with nuts with no flange and had to remove 1.5mm from the washer's radius and had to remove material from the fork lugs. ... .

Chris Adams
There should have been some C washers in the kit to overcome this problem, you should not need to remove material from the fork.
There should also be some torque arms. see the pic at the bottom of the page here http://ebikes.ca/torque_arms/

I would keep a close eye on those carbon forks.
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
ZERO 2011 S motorcycle, 51.8V 70Ah LiMno2, 2012 headlight, Kilovac EV-200 contactor
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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 23 2014 2:50am

Hi Jateureka,
Appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately no torque arms for the 250w kit and no C washers either.

Hacking into the On Ones
The On-One forks are set-up for QR spindles and offer loads of clearance but a chunky 10mm axle just didn't sit deep enough in the slot.
I didn't like doing it but took care in removing as little material as poss.

Verdict
Took the bike for its first big taste of road; 60km all-up with the battery dying right on the last 500m uphill.
Riding conditions were tarmac, mostly into a freshening headwind with several hills so pretty energy sapping.
I don't wear lycra, so shorts were flapping like a spinnaker. Good for cooling though.

The limit of 31kmh (indicated) is frustrating. It actually took longer on this bike than my roadie dammit.
The roadie can (with a tailwind) hit higher speeds on average.
I arrived home feeling the burn but without the electrons I'd be stuffed.

IMHO fat tyres on the MTB are a killer. Rear tyre was running 65psi, front at 40psi. I'll bump the front one up a bit and maybe
find a different tread-pattern to lessen resistance.

I used just the three top gears and dropped to the middle ring once for the last hill home.

I can see where this system for a road / commuter would be far more effective installed on a disc roadie or disc cyclocross
with just single front and a 7-speed cassette and run cross tyres to reduce rolling resistance.

Still, it's only the first charge cycle so the cells will get better.

I'll persevere with this ride and if it still doesn't work out I'll sell it as an MTB and install the system on a lighter more efficient rig.

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jateureka   10 kW

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by jateureka » Jan 23 2014 3:49am

Schwalbe Marathon Plus (and even the plain Schwalbe Marathon) are a good commuter tyre if you want to reduce the likelyhood of flats.

60km on a 10Ahr battery is pretty good.
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 23 2014 8:49am

Hi Jateureka,

Schwalbe Marathon
Had my worst ever prang last week (prior to installing electric kit) where the Marathon on the front let go around a high-speed left-hander.
I've gone around that corner many times over the last 10 yrs on my other bikes. Coincidentally the car coming the other way was a Paramedic van :roll:

Busted knuckle and knee and lots of gravel rashes but I'll live.The Marathon won't put in an appearance again on the front. If you stay near vertical it's a great tyre
but lean over and it's not so good.

Charger gets Hot
The charger after it had finished was uncomfortably hot to touch despite elevating it on a roll of masking tape for airflow. I hope it lasts.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by jkbrigman » Jan 23 2014 8:56am

I gotta give props to the Schwalbe Marathons. I'm NOT running the "Plus", it's too expensive. I use plain Marathons. They work great and gave me 3 more mph for no more energy loss. Plus they have built-in flat protection. Add a goo-filled tube and you've got good commuting security.

You might be lucky because of the low power (250W) but I hope you get torque arms soon for that motor - it's worrisome to see it on carbon forks and to hear you had to take material off the forks. There are some horrific photos on E-S of front fork failure due to motor spinout....
eRecumbent. 9C 2810, 6-FET,CA,18S3P LiPo, Kenda Kwest. 33mph max 12.8Wh/mi (22mph avg) Phat Bike Commuter HS3540, 6-FET, 18S3P LiPo, Schwalbe Marathon 47mph max 25 Wh/mi (28mph avg) Basic LiPo Charging Thread , Add Throttle to Multispeed Bike
dogman: "I bet if you just don't ride like a jerk, you can do whatever you want up to the speed where everybody looks at you like this. :shock: "
tomjasz: "Romans go full dork. They could give a hoot what 'Merkins do."

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 24 2014 3:27am

There's a few variations of Schwalbe Marathons; the one that high-sided me was the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme
and I won't go there again in a hurry (below) :

Image



The Schwalbe Marathon Original GreenGuard might be a good option for this bike:

Image



Perhaps the Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tour Wired; this one has tread that works in one direction to funnel stresses into the middle of the tyre for maximal stability:
Image

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by jateureka » Jan 24 2014 5:57pm

The SM+ Tour is good for road and trail but if you are only doing road riding then the SM+ and the SM are a better choice. The SM has lower rolling resistance but is harder to get on/off the rim as the profile has slightly taller sidewalls and narrower crossection.
A couple of pics showing the various types and a Big Apple
Attachments
tyres SM+ MTB Tour Std 20%.jpg
tyres SM+ MTB Tour Std 20%.jpg (97.69 KiB) Viewed 13155 times
tyres SM+ BigA SM.jpg
tyres SM+ BigA SM.jpg (67.69 KiB) Viewed 13155 times
E-bikes: Bafang 8FUN; Mac; Ezee; FreeGo; Aprilia 7s LiPo; eLation V2; TerraTrike recumbent
E-motorbikes: ZEV 7100 LR scooter, 84V 60Ah LiFePO4.
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byebyepetrol   100 W

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 25 2014 4:28am

Thanks for the photos; the SM+ looks like the one for me.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by ev tocak » Jan 27 2014 1:45pm

The limit of 31kmh (indicated) is frustrating. It actually took longer on this bike than my roadie dammit.
The roadie can (with a tailwind) hit higher speeds on average.
If you are willing to try..there is a little hack to obtain bit more speed .In the option menu choose 18" wheel ,or disconnect speed sensor it will give you 10min of full speed ,after that it shuts off by itself. Hope it helps :|

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 28 2014 1:07am

Hi ev tocak,
That sounds useful.
How to access option menu?
It came with no instructions :shock:

edit:
Worked it out, power the display up, hold down up and down arrows for a second and the option menu appears.
Make changes using mode and arrows and exit by holding the mode button down for 2 seconds.

I'm off for a ride :)

Chris.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 28 2014 2:34am

It sounded good in theory but changing the wheel diameter in the options menu didn't increase power ;0)
The limiting factor is gearing.

I replaced the 13T with a 12T on the rear cluster and pumped the rear to 70psi and the front to 55psi and it's better.
34kmh at comfortable top cadence where it used to hit 31kmh.

Front large ring is a 44T. I'll see if I can change that.

Battery pack has had 4 cycles now so it should be getting better, I can't tell thus far.

Overall, the system is working well, nothing has burnt out or come off.

It comes into its own up gradients into headwinds. It's good fun, despite the fact my commute
goes through Launceston South to North which couldn't be more unpleasant, unsafe and dangerous.
Poor for cars, awful for bikes.

The bike still needs tweaking to equal the travel times on my roadie.
Of course I use less energy on the electric bike overall but I'm slower.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by ev tocak » Jan 28 2014 6:59am

It sounded good in theory but changing the wheel diameter in the options menu didn't increase power ;0)
The limiting factor is gearing.
:| oh well ..too bad ,im sure your next battery +motor kit will be different speed wise :P

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Feb 06 2014 5:47am

Three weeks in
Three weeks of use and enjoying the ride. My commute is far more agreeable with the system.


Just for comparison I took the road bike instead and the 20kt headwind on the way home was a b#@#!

Image



Pulses at Speed
It's pretty reliable although it sometimes "pulses"at speed. It turns on then off at half-second intervals. Is this the speed limiter kicking in?

Need for Speed
I can maintain 35kmh while pedalling at a comfortable cadence. I've ordered a 48T outer chainwheel to take that higher.
If that still doesn't hit 40kmh comfortably I could drop the smallest cog on the cluster from 12 to 11 as well.

Ideally I'd like to hit 50kmh but probably not with this crankset (SLX M660).

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Feb 08 2014 12:33am

Took the bike for a 50km spin in hot, humid and windy conditions.
I would have baulked at a ride like this if I didn't have the electric muscles.

The system still "pulses" the power on and off though.

It's likely not the speed limiter since it pulses at both low and high speeds.

I've discovered if I turn the panel off, wait for ten secs then turn it back on, it resets to normal performance.


I've checked the pedal assist sensor disc for concentricity several times out on the ride and it seems ok.

The motor and controller are warm to the touch.

Weird. I'm not sure what it might be, I'll ask the staff at Dillenger.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by merrystein » Feb 12 2014 2:49am

Thanks byebyepetrol for the post on kit installation and showing how to get around some of the tricky bits (PAS). Some well taken pics.

What speed does kit cutout in each mode ?
- throttle only while peddling
- PAS

You mentioned a 31kmh limit, then it seemed to change to 35kmh. Is it the same limit in both modes (PAS and throttle)?

What speed does the front wheel spin when off the ground on full throttle with a freshly charged battery? 40 kmh?

Dissappointed to hear about the pulsing issue. Could it be the connections between the panel and the cradle. My wired cycle computer sometimes cuts out sensing speed, and pressing the unit against the cradle brings it back into action, sensing speed again. What did Dillenger say?
If you cut into the brake cutout wiring, it could be breifly contacting to cause the pulsing. But you seem to know what you are doing.

I am looking at buying one of these kits from Dillenger at GC to put on my MTB (fork suspension) with Hollowtech BB. Looking at the cheaper 250W 8Ah 36V kit (bottle battery), but will hold off to see if you resolve your issue.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Feb 12 2014 4:56am

Hi Merrystein,

Top Whack
Just tried wide open throttle with the front wheel raised and it indicates 37kmh!

Thought it would be less.

This suggests when the 48tooth chainwheel arrives I should comfortably do 37kmh +

With PAS and 44/12t top gear I hit 35kmh pedalling at max. comfort cadence.
No pedalling, twist throttle at max, with a slight tailwind on the flat, hits 31 / 32kmh.

So the literature that says it's limited to 25kmh is slightly underestimated for my install.


Pulsing
The "pulsing" disappeared on today's 10km out , 10km back commute until I went for a ride tonight after tea; I kerb jumped
because the road engineers haven't thought-through how a cyclist needs to travel in a straight line without constant stopping and starting
and the pulsing returned.

The "switch it off, turn it on" cycle didn't help. Rode home with the twist grip on full twist as a result.

I'll investigate the connections tomorrow. If it persists I'll follow-up with Dillinger.

Big Fun
Apart from that, the 348km have been faultless and above all, fun!
When I fit the new Schwalbe front tyre it should offer even less rolling resistance.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by Willow » Feb 12 2014 5:05am

Good to see another Taswegian on the forums... nice looking bike ol' boy.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by merrystein » Feb 13 2014 2:43am

BBP,
Good speeds similar to mine, and not the slooww speed limit as advertised (which put me off initially).

I have a Solarbike 200W 36V kit on a cross hybrid (700x40C tires), and it indicates 38kmh with front wheel off grd on full charge. With 50T/11T gear combo, I can get about 33-35kmh before the engine feels like it cuts out due to air resistance, load. Thumb throttle only. My overall avr commute speed is about 31kmh (moving time) over 15km morning commute on bike paths & roads. I used to avr 24kmh before installing 200W motor.

Does the pulsing happen on both PAS and throttle mode?
With the kerb jump, that might of loosened the console and cradle connection?? Unfamilar with this model.

Can you install the PAS disc on the left hand side or are they rotation dependant, so people don't get caught out when they back pedal while stationary?

Does your hot battery charger have an internal fan to cool it down like mine? If not, then a mini fan could help.
Lucky you live in cooler Tassie. I thought I was in heaven when I drove thru Launceston moring peak hour back in 2004, comparing to Brisbane peak hour.

Did you have any issues with the disc rotor alignment? My Solarbike install, required a spacer between disc and hub, as the caliper was on max adjustment. Had to try two diff size spacers, as the caliper goes close to touching hub.

Been riding with Solarbike kit for 5 months (10 trips totalling 160km /week), without any major issues, just a broken battery cradle and recharging that requires a trick ever now and then to start it off. Getting a replacement cradle, and will mount it lower to wedge it into the frame to provide support for the bottle battery's weight.

As the busy rear gear lever is on the right side of the handlebar, I choose to mount a thumb throttle on the end of the left hand side. It's action is opposite to normal (ie. push forward to go faster). As I have it near the edge of the handlebar, next to the bar ends, I use the palm of my hand to operate it, and found this the most comfortable setup for a 35km/75min ride. The hand throttle was too tiring for me and difficult to use with the bar ends.

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Feb 13 2014 4:05am

Hi Willow,

Congrats on the success of your leaning-trike. I'd love to see it crossed with an Ariel Atom ;0)

Merrystein; pulsing is only on PAS mode...and it resumed pulsing today dammit despite checking connections.

My next step is to disassemble, clean and re-assemble. That usually fixes most electric bugs.

No more kerb jumps for me until I've isolated the problem. Or returned it under warranty (2 yr from memory).

PAS Direction
I assume mine has to be mounted on the RHS due to the rotation. Dillenger can supply a LHS PAS that doesn't require the cranks to be removed (see photo)

Image


As for the front disc it needed a shim washer on one side...only a few thou to reduce disc / pad friction. The brakes are, TBH, excellent.

They're noisy and that combined with the world's noisiest cluster freewheel means I don't need a bell ;0) Pedestrians / MAMILs hear me a
mile way. If all else fails I lock the rear up and that usually gets the dawdlers / navel gazers out of the way. Even the ones with iPods or mobiles ;0)

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Feb 13 2014 4:20pm

A quick once-over revealed the speed control block had come loose;

The bolt had worked loose most likely due to it being too short for the apllication; I'm surprised the lock nut actually worked.

Image



Image


I wouldn't think that this would be responsible for the pulsing but you never know.
Replaced phillips head bolt with alan head bolt M4 guessing. Also counter-sunk the recess a little more to ensure the bolt head sat with clearance:

Image

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Re: Dillenger Conversion Kit | 250w | 36v | 10Ah

Post by byebyepetrol » Feb 13 2014 9:57pm

Pulsing gone!
I rode this am to work and it seems AOK.

I guess the loose controller mount contributed to a little play between the battery and battery mount 2-pin connector.

The jury is still out on this because full-throttle didn't result in it pulsing...still, I'll give it a sound thrashing on the way home to test.
In hindsight it actually would make the system pulse; anything downstream of the battery connection would be at the mercy of a poor connection.

[update]
The jury reckons it's ok; pulsing has gone most likely thanks to reduced slop in the battery/controller connection.
I went over a few bumps at speed to test, and it's AOK.

Speaking of speed; this arrived in the post!

Image
Last edited by byebyepetrol on Feb 14 2014 12:36am, edited 2 times in total.

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