Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-drives?*

Get real world experience and user feedback on the electric bicycle products.
User avatar
tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Apr 08, 2015 12:51 pm

Maybe, even though I bought a motor and battery at a premium from them, I can't get a direct answer.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

leelorr
100 W
100 W
Posts: 134
Joined: Dec 02, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by leelorr » Apr 08, 2015 1:00 pm

Since the throttle overrides the BBS power output much quicker than the brake cut-out circuit, Kepler came up with a circuit that can be used to apply a small amount of throttle before shifting. This small amount of throttle has the same affect as cutting power. This circuit can be used with a reed switch or micro switch on the shifter lever, or via a small push button that is pressed before shifting. I guess that it is possible that Lectric has modified the wiring of the kit to do something like that, which would not require internal software code changes.

User avatar
The Stig
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1045
Joined: Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by The Stig » Apr 09, 2015 3:28 pm

leelorr wrote:Since the throttle overrides the BBS power output much quicker than the brake cut-out circuit, Kepler came up with a circuit that can be used to apply a small amount of throttle before shifting. This small amount of throttle has the same affect as cutting power. This circuit can be used with a reed switch or micro switch on the shifter lever, or via a small push button that is pressed before shifting. I guess that it is possible that Lectric has modified the wiring of the kit to do something like that, which would not require internal software code changes.
Kepler?

Would be nice if they made shifters out there with built in micro-switches etc

leelorr
100 W
100 W
Posts: 134
Joined: Dec 02, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by leelorr » Apr 09, 2015 3:50 pm

I suggest reading anything about the BBS02 that Kepler posts. :^)

Kepler's "Latest road and single track weapon" thread (here he also talks about and has photos of how he put a micro switch on his shifter (page 1)and built a really cool battery box and battery (page 3) ) :
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=60375

Kepler's optimal BBS02 settings (that a lot of people are using):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=425

Kepler's throttle cut circuit for cutting the BBS02 power automatically when the shifter is used:
http://imgur.com/a/lx7lo


User avatar
eMax
100 W
100 W
Posts: 154
Joined: Jul 02, 2014 11:24 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by eMax » Apr 09, 2015 7:20 pm

You can order from Bafang (and some third party suppliers) now with a separate sensor cable for the Gearsensor cutoff. It is located beneath the controller similar to the speed sensor cable. Apparently these units also are programmed for the cutoff port to perform differently to the brake cutoffs.

I have a couple of Gearsensors (one for IGH, one for Deralliur) and will be testing through the brake sensor plugs for now. Hopefully I will test with the option above by the end of the month.
Riding LMX Freeride and eMax Edi 27.5 Prototype
eMax eBikes - Australian Based Electric Bike Sales & R&D

User avatar
eyebyesickle
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 461
Joined: Apr 07, 2015 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 09, 2015 11:09 pm

oooh I need some of these bad. How would you get in touch with bafang to order these? Through the contact info on the website? http://www.szbaf.com/

I know companies in china that sell batteries sometimes sell the bbs02 kit with them, and they have stated that they need to order a min. or 5 set from bafang.

I feel like the minimum order from bafang would be way higher than 5 sets though...

The min. inquiry number (stated on their website) is 1,000 ~ with the option to brand. (such as E-RAD eh?)

I couldn't get them to contact me back though. =((( and I was willing to shell out some cash before I even tested the product myself based on research and gut alone, ha.


eMax wrote:You can order from Bafang (and some third party suppliers) now with a separate sensor cable for the Gearsensor cutoff. It is located beneath the controller similar to the speed sensor cable. Apparently these units also are programmed for the cutoff port to perform differently to the brake cutoffs.

I have a couple of Gearsensors (one for IGH, one for Deralliur) and will be testing through the brake sensor plugs for now. Hopefully I will test with the option above by the end of the month.

User avatar
tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Apr 09, 2015 11:18 pm

eMax wrote:You can order from Bafang (and some third party suppliers) now with a separate sensor cable for the Gearsensor cutoff. It is located beneath the controller similar to the speed sensor cable. Apparently these units also are programmed for the cutoff port to perform differently to the brake cutoffs.

I have a couple of Gearsensors (one for IGH, one for Deralliur) and will be testing through the brake sensor plugs for now. Hopefully I will test with the option above by the end of the month.
Which vendors and suppliers? Besides Lectric and his resellers? Bafang doesn't list it, nor any others I can find. Two of the purportedly largest suppliers I know of are clueless. I noticed the 1000W rumor got the eRad folks a lot of press but now seem to be vapor ware.

Thanks for the help!,

Tom
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

User avatar
Supertux1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 184
Joined: Mar 18, 2012 11:24 am
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by Supertux1 » May 28, 2015 11:28 am

Is this really a necessary thing?

I have no problem with my BBS02 shifting up or down under full throttle.

Parts: SRAM PG1050 Cassette, KMC X10SL chain, SRAM X9 shifter (indexed), lotsa oil & periodic cleaning.

I use the front derailleur in a fixed position without any cable to keep the chain from falling off.
My Commuter/Cargo eBike (MAC 10T): https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=51147
My Off-Road eBike (Bafang BBS02 '750W'): https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=61721

leelorr
100 W
100 W
Posts: 134
Joined: Dec 02, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico, USA

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by leelorr » May 28, 2015 11:45 am

+1

I read all of these posts with great interest until I got my 750 watt BBS02 and then found that I really see no reason for worrying about shifting. I shift when ever I want or need, and have seen no bad results. Sometimes I throttle back slightly first, but usually not. I use PAS most of the time and have tried stopping pedaling first, which works fine also. After a bit I realized that it was not really necessary. My unit came from Paul at Em3ev with his settings, which seem to be fine tuned pretty well. I did put a new rear gear cluster on to get the gearing I wanted (8 speed 12-36, with the smallest front gear Paul sells), and a new KMC chain to start fresh. I have a chain guide on the front to keep the chain from coming off (which has never happened). I am very happy with the way my bike works and several friends completely new to electric bikes had no trouble learning to ride it after only a block or two of riding.

Good luck,
Leelorr

User avatar
Supertux1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 184
Joined: Mar 18, 2012 11:24 am
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by Supertux1 » May 28, 2015 11:51 am

Inspecting my chain and gears, there's some scrape marks where metal on metal didn't get along very well but it's no big deal and to be expected. I really beat the crap out of my bike and all I really care about is the battery and BBS02 controller. Everything else is just a wear and tear, replace and have fun part.

Obviously there's going to be the occasional crunchy crunchy gear shift if you come to a screeching halt in high gear and only then remember to ratchet the thing up to granny gear for the start... Just remember to anticipate the stop and get into a granny gear before you stop pedalling/throttling....
My Commuter/Cargo eBike (MAC 10T): https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=51147
My Off-Road eBike (Bafang BBS02 '750W'): https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=61721

User avatar
tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » May 28, 2015 2:56 pm

Supertux1 wrote:Is this really a necessary thing?

I have no problem with my BBS02 shifting up or down under full throttle.

Parts: SRAM PG1050 Cassette, KMC X10SL chain, SRAM X9 shifter (indexed), lotsa oil & periodic cleaning.

I use the front derailleur in a fixed position without any cable to keep the chain from falling off.
Actually that's what I have found. Frankly, over rated. But still a nice feature. A $100 feature? For some, yes, it may be. Some like the cut off button. They, Gearsensor, are a good bunch of fellows who have worked hard to bring an idea and product to market. I think it adds value. I think a more CA3 like interface on the BBS0x would be a far more impressive upgrade. The C961, 963, and 965 are very weak on information back to the rider. Not even a decent watt meter.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

User avatar
Supertux1
100 W
100 W
Posts: 184
Joined: Mar 18, 2012 11:24 am
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by Supertux1 » May 28, 2015 3:06 pm

tomjasz wrote: Actually that's what I have found. Frankly, over rated. But still a nice feature. A $100 feature? For some, yes, it may be. Some like the cut off button. They, Gearsensor, are a good bunch of fellows who have worked hard to bring an idea and product to market. I think it adds value. I think a more CA3 like interface on the BBS0x would be a far more impressive upgrade. The C961, 963, and 965 are very weak on information back to the rider. Not even a decent watt meter.
It would really be nice to see at least the battery voltage, amperage draw and watts. For that I use WattsUpMeter spliced into the mix when I want to know, but even that is more junk hanging off the bike...
I might add a Turnigy Wattmeter with remote shunt at some point.
My Commuter/Cargo eBike (MAC 10T): https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=51147
My Off-Road eBike (Bafang BBS02 '750W'): https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=61721

User avatar
The Stig
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1045
Joined: Nov 15, 2008 6:26 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by The Stig » May 28, 2015 3:35 pm

GearSensor may be more necessary for overvolting? I'm interested in it for higher-end kits.

It may also reduce the risk of added maintenance in the long run, from shifting under power.

brickwall
10 W
10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Jun 27, 2015 3:34 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Aug 04, 2015 11:14 am

I'm using a Nexus 8 speed hub with my BBS02 so for me this gear sensor would probably be a really good fit, because the IGH can absolutely not shift under load. Let alone 750W of motor power. I contacted LectricCycles about their sensor, but they told me I also needed a new controller for it to work, so it got expensive quickly.

User avatar
tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 04, 2015 11:23 am

brickwall wrote:I'm using a Nexus 8 speed hub with my BBS02 so for me this gear sensor would probably be a really good fit, because the IGH can absolutely not shift under load. Let alone 750W of motor power. I contacted LectricCycles about their sensor, but they told me I also needed a new controller for it to work, so it got expensive quickly.
It works without their controller. Just use a brake connector.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

brickwall
10 W
10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Jun 27, 2015 3:34 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Aug 04, 2015 11:28 am

That's what I thought too. I wonder why they said this:
To use the gear sensor you would need to purchase a new controller from us for $150 USD. Our controller has cabling and software to optimize for the least amount of delay when cutting the motor
I guess their controller has a third e-brake connector and some custom programming. Since I only use one e-brake, I should be OK without it.

User avatar
tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 04, 2015 11:40 am

brickwall wrote:That's what I thought too. I wonder why they said this:
To use the gear sensor you would need to purchase a new controller from us for $150 USD. Our controller has cabling and software to optimize for the least amount of delay when cutting the motor
I guess their controller has a third e-brake connector and some custom programming. Since I only use one e-brake, I should be OK without it.
Hopefully we'll see the programing one of these days. Earlier claims, I have a BBS01 from them, proved to be sales malarky. I compared their programing to EM3ev. There were no real differences. For some reason the EM3 is a mile or two per hour faster. Perhaps they found a way to program a shorter delay. I'm told by others there is no custom program from Bafang. See Cell_man thread for more chatter on the sales pitches.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Ade
100 W
100 W
Posts: 162
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 3:29 am

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by Ade » Aug 05, 2015 6:39 am

brickwall wrote:That's what I thought too. I wonder why they said this:
To use the gear sensor you would need to purchase a new controller from us for $150 USD. Our controller has cabling and software to optimize for the least amount of delay when cutting the motor
I guess their controller has a third e-brake connector and some custom programming. Since I only use one e-brake, I should be OK without it.
There is custom firmware for these gear sensor ports that Lectric cycles have on their BBS controllers - they even have different versions for different gear systems (IGH, derailleur, etc). Use a normal brake port and you'll get a prolonged pause during gear shifts - perhaps not a big deal for some but I find it annoying.
Nakamura bigbob 4.0 Fatbike with (Luna) 120mm BBSHD and 14ah shark pack with QA cells.

brickwall
10 W
10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Jun 27, 2015 3:34 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Aug 05, 2015 6:50 am

Ade wrote:
brickwall wrote:That's what I thought too. I wonder why they said this:
To use the gear sensor you would need to purchase a new controller from us for $150 USD. Our controller has cabling and software to optimize for the least amount of delay when cutting the motor
I guess their controller has a third e-brake connector and some custom programming. Since I only use one e-brake, I should be OK without it.
There is custom firmware for these gear sensor ports that Lectric cycles have on their BBS controllers - they even have different versions for different gear systems (IGH, derailleur, etc). Use a normal brake port and you'll get a prolonged pause during gear shifts - perhaps not a big deal for some but I find it annoying.
Yeah, that's the claim and it might very well be the case. But I find the PAS on BBS02 to be really awkward and laggy anyway, so I'm not sure the delay would bother me. I use the throttle for when I need precision. (Then again you could flip that argument and say that since the PAS is so awkward, you wouldn't wanna make it more so. :) )

Ade
100 W
100 W
Posts: 162
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 3:29 am

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by Ade » Aug 05, 2015 7:02 am

brickwall wrote:
Ade wrote:There is custom firmware for these gear sensor ports that Lectric cycles have on their BBS controllers - they even have different versions for different gear systems (IGH, derailleur, etc). Use a normal brake port and you'll get a prolonged pause during gear shifts - perhaps not a big deal for some but I find it annoying.
Yeah, that's the claim and it might very well be the case. But I find the PAS on BBS02 to be really awkward and laggy anyway, so I'm not sure the delay would bother me. I use the throttle for when I need precision. (Then again you could flip that argument and say that since the PAS is so awkward, you wouldn't wanna make it more so. :) )
Yes, I agree on the PAS; hopefully it will improve as time goes by and newer revisions come out. If I buy another BBS it'll be with the gear sensor - it promises to alleviate a lot of annoyance for me.
Nakamura bigbob 4.0 Fatbike with (Luna) 120mm BBSHD and 14ah shark pack with QA cells.

brickwall
10 W
10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Jun 27, 2015 3:34 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Aug 05, 2015 7:11 am

Is there another outlet except for LectricCycles? $90 is pretty ridiculous seeing as EM3EV wants between $8 and $12 for other levers and sensors.

User avatar
tomjasz
1.21 GW
1.21 GW
Posts: 3732
Joined: Mar 29, 2014 1:45 pm
Location: Out riding, MN USA
Contact:

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 05, 2015 9:42 am

Given the other exagerations in their sales pitches, I need to see some proof of different firmware before I could make that announcement. Lectric is the distributor for GS and Lectric is known for wild markups. Like the Dolphin battery base for $75 plus shipping. A $15 cost from EM3ev. That said, Gearsensor direct was the same price. Hopefully someone will finally post the Lectric program screens and we can see what's up.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

Ade
100 W
100 W
Posts: 162
Joined: Nov 13, 2014 3:29 am

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by Ade » Aug 05, 2015 10:16 am

tomjasz wrote:Given the other exagerations in their sales pitches, I need to see some proof of different firmware before I could make that announcement. Lectric is the distributor for GS and Lectric is known for wild markups. Like the Dolphin battery base for $75 plus shipping. A $15 cost from EM3ev. That said, Gearsensor direct was the same price. Hopefully someone will finally post the Lectric program screens and we can see what's up.
Stuff is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it. ;)
Nakamura bigbob 4.0 Fatbike with (Luna) 120mm BBSHD and 14ah shark pack with QA cells.

brickwall
10 W
10 W
Posts: 78
Joined: Jun 27, 2015 3:34 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Aug 05, 2015 10:44 am

Does it work properly now? There seems to have been lots of issues in the beginning

Post Reply