Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-drives?*

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by krunchi » Aug 05, 2015 5:51 pm

I bought a gear sensor from emax ebikes to run on my bbs02. I find it works really good, some of the issues might be down to individual set up, i.e. programmed delay and how quick or well your drive train is tuned to shift.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 05, 2015 11:50 pm

krunchi wrote:I bought a gear sensor from emax ebikes to run on my bbs02. I find it works really good, some of the issues might be down to individual set up, i.e. programmed delay and how quick or well your drive train is tuned to shift.
How did you program to suite the GS?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 05, 2015 11:52 pm

Ade wrote:
Stuff is worth exactly what people are willing to pay for it. ;)
Three samples and a 4th final version, $0.00.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 06, 2015 12:01 am

Tranzx has an interesting concept for a GS on their mid drives.

"Precise measuring is achieved by combining Gear and RPM sensors on the e-bike resulting in accurate and smooth support at a cost-effective price; therefore, an attractive alternative to other more expensive sensors. The Gear-Sensor is directly connected with the shift cable in order to measure the used gear. The feedback from Gear and RPM sensors combine active live readings to determine the exact riding conditions."
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Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by lcrewse » Aug 07, 2015 1:47 pm

tomjasz wrote:Given the other exagerations in their sales pitches, I need to see some proof of different firmware before I could make that announcement. Lectric is the distributor for GS and Lectric is known for wild markups. Like the Dolphin battery base for $75 plus shipping. A $15 cost from EM3ev. That said, Gearsensor direct was the same price. Hopefully someone will finally post the Lectric program screens and we can see what's up.
The firmware is different, no screen shot will help you as the software you are familiar with (controllerST) does not give you any insight into the actual firmware itself. As for the dedicated port from the e-RAD controllers for the gear sensor, it is programmed differently than the brake outputs...which is exactly why it is there. After spending months testing the gear sensor and playing with programming on the brake levers, we could not get the gear sensor to work as seamlessly as we wanted. Only by adding a dedicated port programmed the way we wanted were we able to get it right. Take a look at a recent review of the system at https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com/2 ... all-along/.

The gear sensor can be used without a dedicated controller, but in our opinion the functionality is subpar. The complete system works great, making PAS much more usable and allowing a converted bicycle to be ridden just like a regular one without changing your shifting habits to compensate for the motor power. This improved functionality is why the China/Hong Kong based resellers of BBSx kits have been begging Bafang and Gear Sensor to duplicate for them what we spent quite a lot of effort and time perfecting. Gear sensor sells through their distributors and will not sell to the China/Hong Kong based online resellers.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Aug 07, 2015 2:01 pm

I which case, congratulations. You have the best possible frames with mid drives. IME. IF this works as well as you and Karl indicate, it is a huge improvement.
Last edited by tomjasz on Dec 15, 2015 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by CmdrBond » Sep 14, 2015 6:11 pm

I'm looking into a BBS02 and gear sensor.

I noticed 2 companies selling gear sensors with their kits.

Lectric Cycles with their customised eRad system

And Dillenger.

I asked Dillenger how the gear sensor connected and I got this response..

https://s3.amazonaws.com/elevio-article ... al-v10.pdf
55f74381ba000_gearsensorcom-manual-v10.pdf
(1.05 MiB) Downloaded 215 times
Taken from that....

General description

This unique patent pending system developed and made in Czech Republic is based on intelligent GearSensor fixed on the shifting cable, which cuts off the motor drive when the rider activates gear shifting. This brand new technical solution eliminates user-unfriendly and noisy rear derailleur shifting which is caused by chain over straining. GearSensor in combination with the front derailleur allows smooth shifting even if the e-bike is equipped by double/triple chain wheel mid-motor. In addition GearSensor in combination with the internal gear hubs allows perfect shifting performance.

Programmable processors enable individual time setting for shifting gears up and down and adjust micro movement sensitivity of the inner cable to avoid the motor cutting out caused by cable vibration during riding the e-bike.


GearSensor models

The GearSensor is divided into these different models:

1) Model GS-D is a universal model for both derailleurs (front and rear). On this model restarting of the motor depends on the FINISH of the shifting cable movement. This is because system has to wait until the movement of the chain is finished to choose a sprocket or a chainring. MODEL GS-D IS MARKED ON THE CABLE WITH A WHITE STICKER (samples marking).

2) Model GS-I is the model for INTERNAL GEAR HUBS. On this model restarting of the motor depends on the START of the shifting cable movement, plus defined time period. This is because system does not need to wait until the end of the movement of the chain to choose a sprocket or a chainring. MODEL GS-I IS MARKED ON THE CABLE WITH A RED STICKER (samples marking).
And
Bafang BBS01 and BBS02 systems:

Every Bafang BBS motor is equipped with two connectors for brake sensors (HIGO, yellow 3-pin). GearSensors which are compatible with BBS motors are also supplied with the same HIGO connectors. First option is to connect the GearSensor directly to one of these connectors for brakes. Please note that if you do connect GearSensor into this connector, then the restart of the motor could possibly be longer than it should be, because this connector was programmed for brake sensors. The other option is to order directly from Bafang BBS motors with a connector especially programmed for GearSensor, so the restart of the motor will be very fast. For further details please contact us by e-mail and we will help you with the specification of this order.
The end of that paragraph was very interesting.
Last edited by CmdrBond on Sep 15, 2015 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Sep 15, 2015 1:20 am

Thank you for all that information. I know that using the gear sensor with a brake sensor port is not ideal because of the delay, but I believe most people that are experiencing that are using a derailleur system. Anyone has any experience with a gear sensor on an IGH system? Because apparently, the two versions are programmed very differently.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by eMax » Sep 23, 2015 5:38 pm

brickwall wrote:Thank you for all that information. I know that using the gear sensor with a brake sensor port is not ideal because of the delay, but I believe most people that are experiencing that are using a derailleur system. Anyone has any experience with a gear sensor on an IGH system? Because apparently, the two versions are programmed very differently.
I am a ex-dealer for gearsensor and have tested both the IGH and derailleur version on the same bike (a derailleur bike) and I could not tell the difference. Its a very simple device I would be extremely surprised if there is 2 versions. If Radim or anyone else wants to explain the differences i'm all ears! There is however a few parameters in the programming of the controller (for Bafangs) that can be tweaked to improve the performance of the gearsensor.
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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Sep 24, 2015 8:58 am

eMax wrote: There is however a few parameters in the programming of the controller (for Bafangs) that can be tweaked to improve the performance of the gearsensor.
If there are adjustments, would you please share them?
Thanks, that's interesting news and an excellent development! THANKS!!!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by brickwall » Sep 24, 2015 9:45 am

I've read about there being a difference in the sensor, even though the basic principle is the same. However, the actual usage between the two models is very different. With a derailleur system you need to pedal when shifting, while with an internally geared system you absolutely shouldn't. That's why I'm asking, because maybe one or the other is better in actual use.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Sep 24, 2015 1:26 pm

brickwall wrote:I've read about there being a difference in the sensor, even though the basic principle is the same. However, the actual usage between the two models is very different. With a derailleur system you need to pedal when shifting, while with an internally geared system you absolutely shouldn't. That's why I'm asking, because maybe one or the other is better in actual use.
I can't imagine they would produce two when one would work on both systems. So far no reports on using the derailleur version on an IGH.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by eMax » Sep 24, 2015 5:27 pm

Bafang BBS01 and BBS02 systems:

Every Bafang BBS motor is equipped with two connectors for brake sensors (HIGO, yellow 3-pin). GearSensors which are compatible with BBS motors are also supplied with the same HIGO connectors. First option is to connect the GearSensor directly to one of these connectors for brakes. Please note that if you do connect GearSensor into this connector, then the restart of the motor could possibly be longer than it should be, because this connector was programmed for brake sensors. The other option is to order directly from Bafang BBS motors with a connector especially programmed for GearSensor, so the restart of the motor will be very fast. For further details please contact us by e-mail and we will help you with the specification of this order.
The end of that paragraph was very interesting.[/quote]

I've had these controllers with some previous stock. Ordered through Bafang. They hated having to add another cutoff to the bottom of my controllers, and it delayed my order significantly. It works the same though one of the brake cutoffs with some adjustments to the pedal assist settings (Time of stop - 25, Current Decay - 4, Stop Decay - 0). I am now using a y-splitter for the brakes and running a device similar to the Gearsensor in the other cutoff plug.

I was the first in Aus to offer the Gearsensors. They work and are neat but there is next to no margin in them unless you want to sell for >$100. Ridiculously they gave an exclusive distribution to Dillenger for Australia. So now I can't sell them and to be honest its not that big a deal for me.
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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Dec 15, 2015 8:34 pm

Similar event here. I suggested Radim poll EM3ev, and Lectric as a second, to distribute here. Radim was a great fellow to work with. I sent out a handful of samples to folks on ES, known to be proficient and straight up, to test and review. I have liked the product from the first pitch. But there was no margin as a distributor without a motor to tie it to. In the end $100 for an afterthought convenience, with not a whole lot of gain seemed hard sell. I'm about to put mine back on to give another whirl with what's been learned to date about programing. Because I still like the idea. But the nagging thought and reality, for me and how I ride, is it's another gadget. More complexity. All to save a tap on my brake lever. EDIT REMOVED REFERENCE TO UNSCRUPULOUS VENDOR
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by sather » Mar 21, 2016 7:45 am

Luna now has the Gearsensor for $50. I'm thinking of buying one. How is the latest version working? Is it affected by grease on the cable? I use Finishline cable grease. Also, is the Gearsensor affected by rough rocky ground? I had to take the magnetic e brake sensors off my bike because they shut off when riding on rocky ground.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Mar 21, 2016 8:28 am

It's Looking like the controller based option may be better. Waiting for my new controller to find out, how it works for me. Not sure about greases. Good question for GS. The company is quite responsive.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by k-harvey » Mar 28, 2016 3:12 am

Iv'e been assembling using & sometimes sell cyclone 500+(would prefer Bafang but bigger than 24v battery harder to make) mid drives its only recently can one get left thumb throttle ,most of my throttles are twist right hand converted to left thumb always when riding one works the gears with right same time as throttle off with left thumb ' -& you cant brake with left unless thumb comes off throttle.---no fancy gizmos would i ever attach to these bikes as the more to malfunction. . I repair many bikes mostly cut the dam fancy things off telling customer with salt air they're all trouble. Keep it simple.'---Good idea though for bikes that dont have efficient throttle.
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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by mgbguy1 » Jul 02, 2016 12:24 pm

Hello,
I have been using the gear sensor for the last two months and love it. I have a bbshd, bought the motor without the sensor. I had a lot of gear crunch and wasn't happy. So I bought the gear sensor and it works great. You can plug it into the ebrakes or the dedicated plug next to the motor. The difference is the dedicated plug has a faster reaction time than he ebrakes connection. I have it mounted at the shifter.
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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by dvdrwsor » Jul 02, 2016 12:43 pm

I'm thinking of adding a gear sensor on a IGH with a belt drive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't gear sensor the same thing as in:
-release the throttle
-change gear
-engage the throttle
?

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by tomjasz » Jul 02, 2016 3:08 pm

dvdrwsor wrote:I'm thinking of adding a gear sensor on a IGH with a belt drive. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't gear sensor the same thing as in:
-release the throttle
-change gear
-engage the throttle
?
Releasing the throttle doesn't stop the motor.

-release the throttle
-tap brake lever(or back pedal)
-change gear
-engage the throttle

That's nearly the same
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by electricwheels.de » Jul 02, 2016 3:17 pm

Not quite.

when the cable is moving, it activates a downward ramp whre to motor slows down FOR AS LONG AS THE CABLE MOVES. After that it ramps up again to the same speed, provided the throttle output voltage remains the same throughout the process.

Output wire goes on solder pad CK1, but only works with 'special controller', using chinese terminology. :mrgreen:
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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by dvdrwsor » Jul 06, 2016 4:32 pm

tomjasz wrote: -release the throttle
-tap brake lever(or back pedal)
-change gear
-engage the throttle

That's nearly the same
electricwheels.de wrote:FOR AS LONG AS THE CABLE MOVES
So the difference is time lost to shift gears, no?

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by electricwheels.de » Jul 06, 2016 11:56 pm

The difference is the duration of the ramp.
By using the e-brake input, the ramp starts @ zero every time.
With the gearsensor dedicated controller, the th out voltage drops somewhat (depending on the duration of the switch being active) and then ramps up from that point as soon as switching is completed.
Whether it is the same ramp, or whether the ramp parameters can be manipulated with a different set of soft/firmware, I don't know.
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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by dvdrwsor » Jul 07, 2016 1:54 am

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... uct_id=198

Resembles a clutch, and it's only 6$. And it's way easier to install than a gear sensor.

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Re: Gear Sensor for Bafang BBS02 Mid Drive *+ other mid-driv

Post by electricwheels.de » Jul 07, 2016 2:21 am

Without the gearsensor-enabled 'special' controller it just doesn't cut the cheese...
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