Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *PICS*

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 13, 2017 12:27 pm

Got my new 24fets. Trying to hook it up with 205 hub. Getting error - mtOverTemp:
temp - Kopija.jpg
temp - Kopija.jpg (222.04 KiB) Viewed 514 times
My hub is without temp sensor installed. What are the options so that controller would be able to start?

Ps.
Installing temp sensor is not an option at the moment.

I don't find option to switch off or change motor temperature limits in the app. App version & print screen attached. You can see app show150C and error messge in red color. Keep in mind that three input fields you see are for controller temperature limits and not for motor temperature limits.


My controller is 72150, the controller version with motor temperature sensor which has 6 wires in the same connector, 5 of these wires are for halls and 1 - for temperature.
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 13, 2017 12:38 pm

nickjs wrote:Awesome can't wait to get it going :twisted:

As I understand it from that diagram you posted , so you need a brake switch , then whilst the brake switch is on you also need to twist 2nd throttle to get variable regen ?

Or maybe I could use just one throttle?

Any thoughts ?
Hi nickjs,
have you sucesfully managed to conenct second throttle for variable regen?

Controller I bought few days ago has two three wire connectors. Each three wire connector is for separate throttle.
Some older other 72150 controller I had oportunity to play with (some time ago) had no second three wire connector for second throttle, therefore it had no variable regen option.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 13, 2017 1:00 pm

minde28383 wrote:Got my new 24fets. Trying to hook it up with 205 hub. Getting error - mtOverTemp:
temp - Kopija.jpg
My hub is without temp sensor installed. What are the options so that controller would be able to start?

Ps.
Installing temp sensor is not an option at the moment.

I don't find option to switch off or change motor temperature limits in the app. App version & print screen attached. You can see app show150C and error messge in red color. Keep in mind that three input fields you see are for controller temperature limits and not for motor temperature limits.


My controller is 72150, the controller version with motor temperature sensor which has 6 wires in the same connector, 5 of these wires are for halls and 1 - for temperature.
I am getting the same. Told to connect a 1k ohm in series. I asked for specifics (point to point), but it is now Saturday there. The thermister they spec is something in the order of 900 -1000 ohms. KTY83-122 or KTY84-130 thermistor

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 13, 2017 1:36 pm

Hi speedmd, thanks for suggestion.
I think KTY83 thermistors are the electric component which are installed in the motors when things are done in proper way manufacturing electric motors in the factory.
It is smart temp solution to use KTY83 outside motor to overcome this issue.

What are other alternatives to overcome this error?
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 13, 2017 1:53 pm

It is smart temp solution to use KTY83 outside motor to overcome this issue. What are other alternatives to overcome this error?
Understood. My understanding is that You use the resistor in place of the thermister. Thinking it is the white "thermal" wire on the hall sensor connector (white-1K resistor-ground) to ground, but I am waiting for definitive. Will post it when I hear back unless someone else understands this better and chimes in.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 13, 2017 2:27 pm

speedmd,
Thermistor is temperature sensitive resistor.

Thermistor is temperature sensitive resistor thefore they suggested to use the same thermistor which is used in a motor but in our case outside the motor instead inside to overcome this error.

Have you looked into your controller app to change or shut down this motor temp sensing?

Does your app look the same like mine in the attachment i posted an hour ago?
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 13, 2017 2:32 pm

here it data sheet:
https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/KTY83_SER.pdf?
I don't understand how to connect it too, but electronic wise people are all around me so it's just matter of time I get answer. If you first get reply then post it here or wait for me.
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]


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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 13, 2017 2:36 pm

I have a negative value one that I just installed in my mid drive motor and will run that to the CA. Looking like I could add a KTY84 to the battery pack and run that to the Sabvoton and cover both potential thermal events! :D

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 13, 2017 3:45 pm

Could you elaborate on "... add a KTY84 to the battery pack and run that to the Sabvoton and cover both potential thermal event".
How you would cover both potential thermal events without having thermistor in your mid drive motor but having it only in batt?

And what do you mean by "getting negative value". Do you get V-, but not some V+ ? In that case I don't think that V- (ex. -50C) in the app should cause controller not to start. Supposedly only big positive value (ex. 150C) generates error.
Thermistors cheeper from CN but will take month till they reach me by seas and trains. I need one thermistor tommorow from my local shop if it's the only solution or some other workaround.

Link for app download on QS site is not active so it is not avaiable to find out what version they provide. I've contacted them and waiting reply.

BTW i found app print screen which has motor temperature adjusting fields:
http://www.sabvoton.com/news/14911.html#.WeEholu0NEY
It's clear that there are few app versions with different capabilities.


Why just not to get app version which has these motor temperature fields and adjust temperature fields accordingly.

Who needs those thermal readings anyway. Where gone old days when you stop and touch your motor. Thermistors are in hour skin.

back to this reality.
Sabvototn page which provides puclic access has app without motor temperature adjust fields.
http://www.sabvoton.com/doc/sabvotonmob ... eEiKlu0NEZ
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 13, 2017 4:47 pm

The CA can run NTC (negative) type and do thermal roll back if the motor gets hot. I have one I just glued in the mid drive motor. The Sab will also do thermal rollback, and I can do that with the second sensor in the battery. It may also have one built into the controller case to roll back if the controller gets too hot. Not sure if the Sab needs to have the thermister installed to work but may need to see a safe temperature (i.e.aprox 1000 ohm resistance) to turn on so you can get the programming corrected. I may be way off on this but that is how I am understanding it at the moment. You may need this work around just to get it programmed - ignore it.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 14, 2017 12:41 pm

Hi speedmd,
workaround you been suggested is working fine.
I took regular resizsot of 900omhs. One rezistor leg connects to hall minus (black wire) and other rezisot leg connects to white wire (temperature wire).
With 900omhs rezistor i get 17C motor temperature.
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 14, 2017 1:27 pm

Hall testing passed. That's good, but now I get another error when I give some throttle: 20:electronic brake. And this error pop up only when i hit the throttle and when i release error goes away.
How do I solve this 20:electronic brake error? I've switched off all brake options in my app (see pic) but still getting the error 20:electronic brake.
Attachments
er.jpg
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 14, 2017 6:47 pm

Great. My assumption to connect to ground was correct. Will try shortly on mine also.

Brake lock out needs to be worked around also for folks not doing a e brake. The "Hi brake" (purple wire), needs to connect to positive. Documentation is not 100% clear here, but it looks like you have options for 5v, 12v or even the battery +, which gives one some latitude depending on your setup.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 15, 2017 7:54 am

Here is the doc from QS dropbox showing high brake connection.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/u14dw5cbjqv9 ... ctions.pdf

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 15, 2017 11:06 am

Tried connecting 'Brake H' to B+.

When 'E-Lock' conencted to B+ I get error - 20:electronic brake.
When both 'E-Lock' & 'Brake H' connected to B+ at the same time I get error: '21:stop brake':
21.JPG
21.JPG (115.64 KiB) Viewed 516 times
If I remember well my previuos controller I used, needed only 'E-lock' to be connected to B+, but not 'Brake H', but again, it had little bit different wiring.

Documentation is not 100% clear indeed, for eq.:
Purple wire (inslulator/tube) on controller says - 'Brake H', but in wiring diagram it is named 'Purple wire for high level'. When you think twice it may be assumed that it is the same.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 15, 2017 2:14 pm

Folks at QS suggested high brake wire needs connect to 12v, + side. PDF suggests 5, 12, or battery positive. Will surely hear shortly more details on what the work around needs to be. Good thing your not in a rush. :lol:

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 15, 2017 2:39 pm

I was pritty sure that controller can accept battery voltage in 'Brake H' wire.
Yes, there are no consistency in manuals and diagrams. It is clear now that controller accepts wide range of voltage for 'Brake H' wire, from 5v to 90v.
The question now is how to start that controller because it does not spin motor due '20:electronic brake' error.

On Friday I've sent e-mails to QS and Sabvoton but it seems that they are not in a rush too.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 16, 2017 11:10 am

eh, one more day waiting on CN support regarding this '20:electronic brake' issue. It a pitty I got no reply from them on today - Monday.
CN 5.5kw scooter resurrection in progress
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (gone)
Scooter:Mach 1600w, (sold)
Bicycle: Giant NRS, 2806, ping 48V 15Ah, stock Infineon, (sold)
Bicycle: Trek 4300, 9C, ping 48V 15Ah, Infineon 25A, ~18Wh/km, max speed 45 km, (sold) [/size]

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 16, 2017 11:31 am

They have been better than I expected considering it is not a product they produce. Controller and instructions, much worse than expected to get a simple setup spinning. Good thing for ES, as we can help all involved work through some complex stuff and learn a bunch we would most likely miss doing it alone. Waiting to hear back before I mess with it much again. At least I got the program installed finally.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 16, 2017 12:34 pm

I wrote both, QS and Sabvaton members. I saw qs memeber online but I don't blame anybody not answering anybody on Monday unsless it's really seriuos. I believe they have a lot catch up to do after weekend.
Yes, indeed, ES members are great comunity and great pool of ideas and inspiration. I wouldn't had such desire to conceive my first ebike years ago if not so many great examples in this forum.

Yes, application itself works all right, but first thing I would improve is to make com_port assignment automatic so that nobody would need to look into device manager anymore. Now with this check port and input manually into app looks like from win95 ages. As if USB adapter would be some third party unrecognizable and their applicatoin does not have option to recognize adapater and com_prot automatically...

I heard that some split happened in sabvoton company some time ago, but if they still produce new controllers than they ought improve their soft too; why not invest little bit programing hours to app improvment.

An more thing I noticed.
I don't have bluetooth myself yet therefore can't say from my personal experience about bluetooth adapter unstability but its descriptions says that it's not very stable. Why it might be not stable for years now and not fixed, and being proprietary and costing 25usd.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 16, 2017 2:23 pm

Their domestic market dwarfs ours and most likely keeps them very busy. From the users that have theirs working, it all sounds like it will be worth it once we get hooked up. I purchased the blue tooth adapter. Phone had no trouble finding it, but was unable to connect to the controller I believe due to temp warning /lock out. Will try again in the coming days.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by minde28383 » Oct 16, 2017 8:59 pm

Issue solved, no more error '20:electronic brake'. Motor is spining. Actually it was not error. It was more like indication that controller is initiating electronic brake which actually is 'variable regen'. If app creators would call it variable regen but not electronic brake than I think I might have clue beforehand.

Anyways.
Waited till Vito and Carrie from QS started their new day. It's 4am now at my place. They told right away that this error due miswiring.

There are two connectors for throttle (which are actually called handlbar on the wires :roll: ).
-One connector for regular throttle (red,black,grey) and
-Another connector for Variable Regen Brake (red,black,brown)

Previuosly I believed that I need to connect connector with red,black,brown wires instead one with red,black,grey.

This '20:electronic brake' is indiaction that controller is initiating variable regen. Instead giving signal to spin motor I was initiating varaible regen braking. It seems so obviuos now but it did not back than; but again, maybe due not consistent naming '20:electronic brake' instead 'xx:variable regen'.

I wonder how practical is second throttle for regen. Unfortuantly I won't find it soon as there is no place to mount it on my scooter unfortunalty but if there were I would try it for sure.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by Alan B » Oct 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Glad you got it working.

It is not just variable regen. Regen tapers off and gets very weak at low speeds. This is an electronic brake. If you set it aggressively enough it will apply power at low speed and produce enough reverse thrust to make a strong braking force, even skid the tire. I set mine to be just shy of breaking the tire loose, so it feels kind of like ABS brakes. Much stronger than regen at low speeds. It still drops out, but at a very low speed, like 1 kph.

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Re: Sabvoton SVMC072150 controller review, variable regen *P

Post by speedmd » Oct 17, 2017 7:48 am

Got my first gen GNG 450 watt motor spinning with it today. :D I had to switch the blue - yellow phase and hall wires as I did with the sun win and other generic - standard ebike controllers to smooth it out and get it to pass the hall test. Purple wire to 5v+ did the trick for me clearing the fails. 120 degree hall angle for this motor worked.

Runs Near silent. Runs up way past previous top RPM with just a bit of FW current set. WOW! A whole new day in the playpen. Lots of settings to work through, but I can reverse direction just with the 0 -1 setting on motor direction.

Thanks Alan for the e-brake input. My next mid drive will certainly incorporate this feature. Mine now freewheels, so it would not be of any use. With a direct to rear wheel mid drive setup, I would like to have the throttle incorporate some motor drag when you get off it, as you have on a big four stroke bike. Brake lever with hall position sensor to take braking the rest of the way. Good to want! :)

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