The steepest hills

I thought that I might start a topic of which members can post very steep hills they know of

This one is in New Zealand and I think it would be hard to find many e-bikes that could actually climb this hill without pedal assist it is in Dunedin and the name of the street is Baldwin Street

http://scasagrande.tripod.com/NZ3b/

its gradient is 1:1.266

Any e-bikers in Dunedin NZ wish to try this if you make it unassisted what is the kit you used?

edit: Does anyone know any that are steeper like of road tracks etc ?

Some of my local inclines from another forum thread.
If i get a chance I will take a shot of a nearby off road MTB trail, It has a bypass in it as it is too steep for the offroad 4 X fire trail vehicles, And it basically is impossible to keep the front wheel on the ground, it is rated as "difficult and will involve pushing of the bike".
Around here there are from memory 2 off road MTB trails that are not rated as difficult.

I'll have to get some pitures around here.

Hillway at Parnassus is right across the street from my building.
I'm not sure how to convert 1:1.266 to a percentage. Percent is rise/run, so it would appear that 1:1.266 is something like 62%?!

Below is a pic I stole off the web, Diamond Street in SF.

Somebody measured the grade on a bunch of hills around SF here:
http://keck.ucsf.edu/~dblake/grades.txt

Road Cross St % grade

Sunset district
Ortega 10th/11th 23
10th Quintara 23
14th Quintara 21

Up Mt Sutro (SW side)
Warren Rd Locksley (bottom) 16
Warren Rd (2 blocks further up) 17

At UCSF
Hillway Parnassus 25
17th Cole 17
17th Roosevelt 17

Twin Peaks
Hopkins Corbett 24
Glenview Portola 18

Haight
Central Waller 22

Pacific Heights
Divisadero Clay 15 Going down south
Divisadero Jackson 19 Going down south
Divisadero Broadway 21.5 Going down north
Broderick Broadway 31 Going down north
(this is actually a driveway that is S shaped. The sidewalk runs
straight down the hill at 31 % grade. The driveway is pretty easy
to climb due to the switchbacks - it only "felt" like 17% grade).

Lombard hill going down to the west
Filbert Larkin 26%
Lombard hill going down to the east
Filbert Leavenworth or so 32%

woah,

i though my ride would have its work cut out in my area but holy crap,
you guys would laugh at what i called a hill,lol
more a mound of earth in comparison!!
by the way fechter i looked at your scoot vid, very impressive speed and cracking build, i'd be happy if my bike gets that type of performance!


cheers

D

fechter said:

I'm not sure how to convert 1:1.266 to a percentage. Percent is rise/run, so it would appear that 1:1.266 is something like 62%?!

Click to expand...

Should be, I think, a 79% slope (1/1.27) which is a 38 degree angle [atan(rise/run)] . A 45 degree angle is a 100%(1:1) slope.

Good opportunity to refresh my pitiful human memory...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slope

I just tried to go up Hillway @ Parnassus with the x5505 84v35amp. it only went 5mph from a mid hill dead stop, no peddling. probably need more amps.

I just tried to go up Hillway @ Parnassus with the x5505 84v35amp. it only went 5mph from a mid hill dead stop, no peddling. probably need more amps.

Click to expand...

From Fechter's post, that's a 25% slope. Presumably you're getting stuck in the zone of motor inefficiency. If efficiency was ~70%, 2800 watts should be good for ~15mph up a 25% grade. If at 5mph efficiency is, as the hubmotor simulator suggests, 13%, max speed with 364 watts (2800 X 13%) would be ~3mph.

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm
http://www.ebikes.ca/simulator/

So if you get a good running start, theoretically you should be able to hold 15mph up that hill.

Wanna test that supposition?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6900357795114403887
^^^
This is the steepest and longest hill within a 10 km radius of my house. pretty pitiful huh.. 5302 at 36v sla, 20" wheel



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7565774315427268891
^^^
I'm sure most of you have seen this one.. but at the 1:50 mark this hill is no problem for the dual speed 406/409 in 409 mode at 72v nimh, again 20" wheel.. ( same bike )

tno said:

I just tried to go up Hillway @ Parnassus with the x5505 84v35amp. it only went 5mph from a mid hill dead stop, no peddling. probably need more amps.

Click to expand...

I'm surprised it even moved at all. I sure couldn't pedal up that hill at 5mph on my own (OK, I'm out of shape).

You should stop by and visit my shop sometime. I'm in the Moffitt building.

I finished up a recent ride video with my bike club. There is a part of the ride in which the hill is so steep, the bicycle can roll nearly 50 MPH going down it. When I get google to approve the video, I'll post it to show (it shows other riders in front me going this fast, remember I'm the only one with the motor :wink: )

Any idea what grade a hill must be to roll down it at 50MPH? Would hate to come back up the other side of course

tno said:

I just tried to go up Hillway @ Parnassus with the x5505 84v35amp. it only went 5mph from a mid hill dead stop, no peddling. probably need more amps.

Click to expand...

Definitely need more amps. Upgrade your FETs and you'll fly up hills as quick as your batteries will allow. 80 amps flattens out any hill quite nicely 8)

fetcher , xyster has fairly much got the slope thing correct how 1:1.266 38 degree

1/1.266 = 0.789889


then 0.789889 tan (-1) =38.305

easy with a scientific calculator

edit :

a far easier but less accurate is 1 / 1.266 = 0.789889

45 * 0.789889 = 35.54 + 2 =37.5

or

1:5

1 / 5 = 0.2 tan(-1)

11.3

0.2 * 45 = 9 + 2 = 11

so if you want to be close but not exact you could try it that way

Save yourselves a head ache

http://www.geocities.com/sidestreetluge/grade.html#tablehttp://www.geocities.com/sidestreetluge/grade.html#table

The site has a look up table for degrees to grade.

I feel flat on this topic.
Might be my location.

We have a Mount Trashmore.
And some ramps to underground parking garages are sort of steep
in a negative way.

Hmmm... If I lived in San Francisco I think I'd want a sprag.


Y'all know what a sprag does, right?
The sprag was once considered an important thing--to early autos.

Some of the poorer designs resulted in a sort of reverse pole vault action.

Q: won't one or two or three stiff hills drain most any battery? Wow, how not-fun is that?



Maybe e-bikes in SF should take a cue from cable cars and latch to the wire rope for free rides?

helpfully stupid,

Reid

hey Fechter, maybe i'll drop by moffit building one of these days. I'm studying for an upcoming exam right now though.
I tried the hill at Hillway again this morning. as I turned into the hill at 16mph and hit full throttle, the bike slowly went down to 8mph. I notice my batteries sag down from 51v to 35v on the hill. my battery pack consist of 4 9a/h sla's connected to a single 36v sla evglobal battery. the voltmeter is only connected to the 48v pack. I couldn't get more speed going into the hill because the street leading to the hill is somewhat narrow and has railway tracks. Better batteries and more amps would indeed help. One good thing to note is that the x5 doesn't overheat under these type of loads. The Heinzmann motor with me helping would overheat half way up a hill like this.

I notice my batteries sag down from 51v to 35v on the hill.

Click to expand...

Well that's at least most of your problem right there. Before adding more amps, I'd bolster the current capability of those small SLAs -- if I was me, by adding in parallel a small, full-voltage pack of emoli's or A123's.

knightmb said:

I finished up a recent ride video with my bike club. There is a part of the ride in which the hill is so steep, the bicycle can roll nearly 50 MPH going down it. When I get google to approve the video, I'll post it to show (it shows other riders in front me going this fast, remember I'm the only one with the motor :wink: )

Any idea what grade a hill must be to roll down it at 50MPH? Would hate to come back up the other side of course

Click to expand...

I'll quote myself, haha

You'll find the ride video here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=662

When you visit the google video, move the cursor to 33 minutes and 40 seconds to see what I was talking about.

I'll quote myself, haha

Click to expand...

Be careful, even in private that's illegal in some southern states .
Ebikemaui writes entire threads that way :lol:

tno said:

hey Fechter, maybe i'll drop by moffit building one of these days. I'm studying for an upcoming exam right now though.
I tried the hill at Hillway again this morning. as I turned into the hill at 16mph and hit full throttle, the bike slowly went down to 8mph. I notice my batteries sag down from 51v to 35v on the hill. my battery pack consist of 4 9a/h sla's connected to a single 36v sla evglobal battery. the voltmeter is only connected to the 48v pack. I couldn't get more speed going into the hill because the street leading to the hill is somewhat narrow and has railway tracks. Better batteries and more amps would indeed help. One good thing to note is that the x5 doesn't overheat under these type of loads. The Heinzmann motor with me helping would overheat half way up a hill like this.

Click to expand...

Time to ditch those lead boat anchors and put some batteries on that will let the X5 really perform.

Heres a hill to try for those that might be in Melbourne. Its the steepest one I know of.
O'Hea Street in Pascoe Vale. I measured it today at 1:3.2 gradient.

No speed records on this hill. Note the guard rail and right hand corner at the bottom.

For those with a rear wheel hub motor you might want to add your lead to the front wheel to stop it lifting off the ground.

Just saw the movie Shooter, and thought some of the scenes looked familiar during the car chase and I recognized the hills. Turns out they filmed those scenes in New Westminster, BC, and I ride through there twice a day going to and from work.

On the uphill run (east to west) along Stewardson Way I've hit 67km/h with the booster pack and 62km/h without.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=49.197691,-122.930832&spn=0.028997,0.05785&t=h&om=1

Lowell said:

tno said:

hey Fechter, maybe i'll drop by moffit building one of these days. I'm studying for an upcoming exam right now though.
I tried the hill at Hillway again this morning. as I turned into the hill at 16mph and hit full throttle, the bike slowly went down to 8mph. I notice my batteries sag down from 51v to 35v on the hill. my battery pack consist of 4 9a/h sla's connected to a single 36v sla evglobal battery. the voltmeter is only connected to the 48v pack. I couldn't get more speed going into the hill because the street leading to the hill is somewhat narrow and has railway tracks. Better batteries and more amps would indeed help. One good thing to note is that the x5 doesn't overheat under these type of loads. The Heinzmann motor with me helping would overheat half way up a hill like this.

Click to expand...

"Time to ditch those lead boat anchors and put some batteries on that will let the X5 really perform".

Click to expand...

Lowell
1 kW


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 454
Location: Vancouver
http://tinyurl.com/2pandb Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9Ah SLA batteries are not a good match for an X5 hub. "In fact they're not much good for anything hillclimb related..."
http://tinyurl.com/2pandb

What was the point of your post besides repeating that SLA's and hills don't mix?

Lowell said:

What was the point of your post besides repeating that SLA's and hills don't mix?

Click to expand...

SLAs work fine as long as you have high torque and efficiency at low end. These four Hawker batteries weighing 160 lbs climbed this hill 100s on times on 60 mile trips in the country.At 6 mph on 48 volts it takes 960 watts ot 20 amps (current limmited at 20 amps) with this bike.The difference with lithiums at 72 volts is at 13 mph it is drawing 1343 watts on the same 30* grade dropping 155 lbs of weght and adding voltage.But anything over 2 C discharge rates hurt lithiums more so than in lead acid batteries.Lithiums don't like much over a 1 C discharge for long periods for long cycle life.
http://tinyurl.com/3aj848
http://tinyurl.com/y9hh8s

I live near Pittsburgh PA. Canton street seems to have the reputation as the steepest street around here. Its somewhat of a landmark. Here's a link to some flickr.com photos:

http://flickr.com/search/?q=pittsburgh steep&w=all



"It's the steepest street in this hilly town and, probably, the region, with a grade of 37 percent -- that is, rising 37 feet per 100 feet of run. So confirm records from the city Department of Engineering and Construction.

Canton could be the steepest street anywhere. Figures can be fuzzy, but the best San Francisco can do are grades of 31.5 percent. The world's steepest claim is made by Baldwin Street in Dunedin, New Zealand, but its steepest part, according to the town's own Web site, is only 35 percent. Could Pittsburgh have a world record hidden in the trees high above Banksville Road?"

-Bob Batz Jr.
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Lycras criticize me for desiring a pedal-assist bike for commuting. See the comments to this post:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/schwinns_new_line_of_electric_bikes.php

I don't think they have any idea of what the hills are like around here - not miles long like you would find in the Rockies but very, very steep with no flat parts.



I'm hoping that pedelecs, ebikes (whatever) get more popular around here. We've got great bike trails (former railroad tracks) but the roads sure could be made more bike friendly.