Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by LewTwo » Jul 04 2015 10:50pm

byebyepetrol wrote:re: Loctite tape
That might just work for those who don't have the luxury of a Dremel cutting disc.
Could accomplish the same thing with a triangular file as well but I always want to consider the options (I did mention that I am lazy).
byebyepetrol wrote:Get the biggest you can afford. My next battery will be at least 16AHr.
LOL ... I am headed just the opposite direction: 'as light as practical'. I might make a small compromise for the mid drive.
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by eMax » Jul 05 2015 12:19am

byebyepetrol wrote:Hi LewToo,
re: Loctite tape
If it was my money and I was asked to build a new bike for light commuting, no hills, no heavy payload (like a trailer)
the rear hub drive would be preferable.

However, if you're after a drive-train to handle heavy loads, hills, high speeds, offer higher efficiency, better handling
then mid-drive gets the nod.
I agree, I would only recommend a hub for very basic, flat riding. The extra weight in the wheel affects handling and you will go through spokes and rims quicker. No hub on the market can match the efficiency of a mid-drive in hilly areas. There is a reason why all high end $4000+ ebikes are using mid-drive systems. They get much better range out of the 400wh/500wh packs offered.

Rental bikes may prefer front hubs because they are generally a charge and forget about it scenario. They can get enough range for someone to cruise around for a few hours.

16Ah in a frame pack will be a possibility very soon with high discharge 3400mAh/3500mAh 18650 cells becoming available. The money being poured into developing these cells by Sanyo/Panasonic/Sony/LG/Samsung is amazing.
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by DaDo.Bzz » Jul 15 2015 7:49am

Backup battery behind the seat 13S4P
Attachments
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LMX 81, 16S6P 60A
BBS02 on Cannondale Rz 120
BBSHD on CTM Scroll, XTR Di2, 700Wh 52V
Slovakia, Bratislava

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Jul 15 2015 8:04am

Image

How much range?

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by LewTwo » Jul 15 2015 8:29am

eMax wrote:... you will go through spokes and rims quicker...
I can only recall breaking a spoke twice and both times I broke one heck of a lot more than spokes.
Once I ran a small motorcycle into the back of a 1-ton service truck ... the truck won.
The other I hit a bad pot-hole with an ebike at high speed. That bike had three SLA's mounted mid frame. The front wheel stopped but nothing else did :cry:
The more I learn the more obvious the immensity of my ignorance becomes.
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by eMax » Jul 15 2015 8:26pm

That's a sweet Cannondale. Looks like a good match and surprised you fit that battery in.
I have some new battery styles coming that will suit this type of space compromised frames hopefully.
http://www.emax-ebikes.com.au/blog/new-battery-updates
LewTwo wrote:
eMax wrote:... you will go through spokes and rims quicker...
I can only recall breaking a spoke twice and both times I broke one heck of a lot more than spokes.
Once I ran a small motorcycle into the back of a 1-ton service truck ... the truck won.
The other I hit a bad pot-hole with an ebike at high speed. That bike had three SLA's mounted mid frame. The front wheel stopped but nothing else did :cry:
Fair enough. My rear Mac I had about 2 years ago was terrible on spokes and rims. Maybe a reflection on my terrible riding :roll:
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Jul 16 2015 2:43am

Thanks for the info Ewan.
36v 17.4Ah with Samsung 18650 29E Cell 2900mAh 10s6p

17.4Ah in the Dolphin style pack is looking promising.
It's approaching my 100km range ideal.

I get 80-90km off a 36v 14.5Ah pack so another 3Ah or so almost hits 100km.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Samd » Aug 26 2015 2:20am

eMax wrote: I agree, I would only recommend a hub for very basic, flat riding. The extra weight in the wheel affects handling and you will go through spokes and rims quicker. No hub on the market can match the efficiency of a mid-drive in hilly areas. There is a reason why all high end $4000+ ebikes are using mid-drive systems. They get much better range out of the 400wh/500wh packs offered.
I'd openly dispute that. I love my mid drive bikes - I have four. But on a large 2kilowatt hr bike with a DD hub at 6kw charging through the bush (such as a bomber) - or on a 1kwhr gearmotor bike running 2kw through the bush - a middrive with 500 watthours will not keep up on single track or technical passes. Efficiency becomes secondary. Too busy switching gears.

If you must have just one bike such as a Bosch middy though then what you assert is not a bad rule of thumb if you want a balance of commuting and some light offroad work. But I think you are being too dismissive of what many of us use hubs for when it comes to hard riding.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Aug 28 2015 1:01am

Hubs certainly have their place. Another nod for hubs is they won't chew your drivetrain.

Maintenance
Over the last 2 weeks I've had worsening chain skip from the 11T and 13T sprockets.

This was a new cassette May 18th. Worn in 3 months! Not good.

I've given up today trying to buy individual sprockets. No one has them here (Launceston).

They can willingly sell you an entire XT cassette but one of the cogs? Nah...

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Sep 15 2015 3:24am

$50AUD later and natural order is restored.

That doubt where you step on the juice and don't know whether the dreaded metal munching chain-skip is going to
start munching metal...is gone.

I reckon it was the tooth profile of the cogs; 11,12 and 13T.

I installed the new cassette over the mangled Hope Pro II freehub, and adjusted DR tension and away it went.

Rode to work and back and mashed the pedals with max-throttle several times and it was AOK.

I'll still replace just the top three cogs on the XT casette so I don't feel as if the entire cassette is a throwaway.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Dec 07 2015 10:12am

Update: 4052km

New SLX 10sp cluster has proven fuss-free since Sept. In fact the whole bike is fuss-free.
1.jpg

Disc Wear
If I had to be critical the discs are wearing poorly forming a very obvious ridge and the eBay pads
tend to rub more than expected. It's usually fixed by loosening the quick release, applying brake then tightening the QR.

At some stage the Avids will be replaced by Shimano SLX discs based on the amazing XT discs on my MTB (shown).
13.jpg
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Drivetrain
Bafang motor and battery is totally reliable and fast. With a full charge I get 80-90km range and top speed remains
a handy 45kmh no wind assist on the flat, comfortable cadence.

I look at the mega dollar eBikes for sale these days and can't help feeling smug that for less than half of their price
my bike is lighter and faster and goes further.

About the only thing missing is regen.

Touring
I'm taking this on a bike tour and the longest legs are 100km. In years past I've taken my roadie but it's slightly masochistic
TBH. A great challenge but now I've got nothing to prove I thought the electric bike would make it far more pleasant.
The cool thing about the Bafang drive is if the batteries drop to zero propulsion the pedal effort is only very slightly impacted. The
one-way ratchet is responsible.

Changing Gears
One habit I've adopted is to back-off when changing up or down. It's second nature now and my hunch is as a consequence there's less wear on the
cluster.

You can grab the SLX DR and try to move it sideways and there's very little play. This might just be down to the quality of the
SLX Shadow DR but it's a lot tighter than the old XT.

This bike is going so well I've held off upgrading to a 29er version.
Last edited by byebyepetrol on Jan 28 2016 6:44am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » Dec 09 2015 6:22pm

Not sure if you read my review on the hub motor, can only wish I was getting 45km/h on the flat!

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Dec 09 2015 7:04pm

Hi Scotty,
Saw your thread, it's a great read.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =4&t=74262

How's the Beemer coming along?

FYI
I'm running 26" x 1.25" Maxxis Detonator tyres @ 55psi
My discs are rub-free and I run a 48x11 top ratio.

I weigh around 70Kg, bike weighs about 18Kg.

TBH I wouldn't sit on 45 for long periods. Comfortable average is 35kmh with
sustained peaks to 45. if I'm in a tearing hurry I can stay on 45 for a while
with thumb throttle held on.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Dec 30 2015 5:05pm

4602km and counting...

Just last week I returned from a Xmas break; riding L'ton to Melb to Red Hill and back. It's about 400km all-up with a mix of hills and flats.
Punctuated by drinking and eating and lounging around in a 15m pool for three days.

Normally I'd take the road bike but this year I thought why not try the ebike? I had enough faith in it.

30mins into the pre-dawn departure the BB started to loosen and I thought I'd have to return and go by car but I ploughed on like a twit.
It got worse but not worse enough to prevent me going the entire way there. It turns out the lock ring had loosened just enough to move a mm
or two under load. Upon arrival I fixed it with a hammer and flat-blade screwdriver. It needed a 1/4 turn to fasten it again.

An irritating slow leak on the rear was kept at bay thanks to the Blackburn micro pump. I swapped out both tyre and tube.
The GEAX Street Racer 1.25x26 proved just as good as the Maxis Dominator. It has a smooth centre-tread for very low drag. 65psi.

Range for the bike with me and a single Ortlieb pannier was excellent. I ran Level 2 for most of the trip which was a comfortable assist and
maintained 30-32kmh for the flat. Surprisingly after half-way (for both legs) it still indicated five out of five. It was only after 70km it dropped to
4/5.

At one stage coming home a tail/ quartering wind saw me belt around the bay sustaining 35-45kmh for around 40km.

100km is about the limit for this rig.

Battery and drivetrain continue to perform although I can hear a gear whine which is now more prominent than before. I expect it'll need a re-grease
on the primary spur and pinions.

If I did it again I'd lube the internals and re-check the BB fastening and that's about it. Although you can now buy a 36v 17AHr Dolphin pack that would definitely
offer around 100km + without range anxiety.

Take a spare battery and you'd cover most long haul trips.
27.jpg

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by 2old » Dec 30 2015 8:54pm

I had a shop gorilla torque the lock ring down with a specific 1/2" drive tool (I know there are other tools for this, but this socket SEEMS superior for high torque) and mine has been fine since. Thanks for the report; if I go on a long trip, I'll modify the "flat wrench" for the lock ring (if this can be achieved - thinking cut out portion so it can be used to tighten somewhat without removing crank..

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Dec 30 2015 10:26pm

Ahh yes, the mighty Shop Gorillas.

Not sure about removing material on the wrench unless it's made from strong steel.

A custom tool would be good; one that doesn't have a handle but you thread a lever into it or
use a crescent wrench OR undo your seat tube and somehow use that to apply leverage.

I've ridden my roadie for umpteen thousand km and the BB (Ultegra) is still mint.

On the eBike maybe it's the extra torque or the limited surface area of the BB flange that allowed mine to slip.
It didn't rotate for the trip back so I reckon it's sorted anyway. If it comes loose again out on the road it's
likely it can be tightened with a flat blade screwdriver and a large rock.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Tats » Jan 01 2016 7:05am

I am seriously impressed with the range you get, and then I saw the PAS you were using lol. I'm obviously lazier with my 13 wh/k ...sounds like you had a great time.

Have a mate at work thinking about 'upgrading' to an ebike for a 40km each way commute on a lumpy ride with headwind one way. I was thinking a ping 36v20ah and the bbs01 - but I see some dolphin battery options at 17ah using the Panasonic 18650b cells. Any thoughts on the range he should get with this when windy/lumpy avg 30km/h?

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 01 2016 12:39pm

Hi Tats,
I much prefer the level 5 assistance for commuting to work. It's faster and more fun. I'd likely get 50-60km range with it on level 5 (without loaded panniers).
As for your mate; 40km each way is ambitious. Respect.

To get to work over that distance and still be compos mentis I'd run maximum assist.
With a headwind and a 17AHr pack I reckon it'd be possible just as long as the bike is efficient, tyres pumped-up, no discs rubbing, rider contributes and
low-loss drivetrain.

He could always top it up at work. Tell him to go for it and if the bike is a 29er/ 700c it'd be more efficient again.
Exactly how much more efficient I'm not sure. Another benefit of running 29er is you could get by with the standard chainring (not withstanding it's poor wear properties).
I've had to run an adapter and a 48T chainring on my 26" to get it to perform.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Tats » Jan 01 2016 6:31pm

Thanks mate, I'm concerned that over time when the battery drops to 85% capacity it gets too marginal hence the 20ah ping option. I'll check the hills and may try it myself at low assist to see what it's really like. Thanks!

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 01 2016 7:03pm

TBH I haven't noticed any drop-off in battery strength or capacity after 4000km and 350 charge/ discharge cycles.
I expect my battery to just keep on going and going...clutches wooden crucifix...

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by tomjasz » Jan 01 2016 11:59pm

My two BBS01 motors have been great. Each tops out at 22mph/35kph. 120lb wife gets 40 miles/charge fat lazy husband 20+ lots of throttle, full assist. 11ah and 13.5ah batts. Great city bikes. 1 soon yo be relegated to be a parts motor replaced by a BBSHD, for no good reason other than curiosity. I think the BBS01 is the sad casually of the need for speed. A fabulously under rated and efficient mid drive. Dead quiet when stuffed with grease.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Tats » Jan 02 2016 1:20am

Totally agree on the BBS01 being the forgotten cousin. Mine has been great and much more than fast enough for commuting.
Out of interest where and how much grease are you applying? I haven't done any maintenance to mine yet....

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by tomjasz » Jan 02 2016 8:17am

Tats wrote:Totally agree on the BBS01 being the forgotten cousin. Mine has been great and much more than fast enough for commuting.
Out of interest where and how much grease are you applying? I haven't done any maintenance to mine yet....
STUFF IT! See Bruno's video. Lurkin thinks he doesn't get enough grease in using that method. I measure out a couple of level tablespoons and keep pressing it in until most is in place. I went with electric fat bikes take and use highest quality aviation grease. Last time I filled a meat basting syringe with Mobile aviation grease and squeezed it in. Turned out I needed to use my gloved hand anyway. but it's an good way to measure volume.

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/12/23/ ... not-heard/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khW5l-FdPU0
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Jan 20 2016 3:20am

Can you tour on a Bafang 250w?
I'd say yes based on my two-day trial around the Tamar River (Tasmania).

I ran the Bafang at assist level 1 for most of the ride and it coped with lots of big hills, 10km of corrugated dirt roads and a 5-10kt headwind day one.
It carried two Ortlieb panniers with tent/Thermarest/food/ booze/ clothes etc. so all-up load was around 12Kg including the heavy panniers. Ortliebs
are great but not that great at 3Kg.

I gave the other riders a go on it at the campsite and I may have turned a few to the "dark side".
campsite.jpg
campsite.jpg (210.02 KiB) Viewed 820 times
On the second day, after 65km out of a 100km total I still had 5/5 bars on the display. I didn't bother charging it at the campsite.

Level One assist I reckon might get you 150km +

I ran it at Level 5 for the 30km run home and averaged 35-40kmh +
1.jpg



If you take a spare battery 14 or 17AHr you'd be ok for 200km +

I'm very impressed with this rig.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by tomjasz » Jan 20 2016 12:31pm

Thanks for the story. A highly underrated motor. I have two 350W that I expect to use on bike paths for many years. More than enough speed for my wife at 22MPH/35KPH full throttle.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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