Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

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byebyepetrol
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Apr 03, 2015 5:44 am

Awesome. Is there a build thread for it? I've been thinking about an electric conversion for my 77 Mini.

Scotty T
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » Apr 08, 2015 10:32 pm

Yep I started my build thread on AEVA:

http://forums.aeva.asn.au/my-e318is-bui ... c4497.html

A 77 mini would just be sensational!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9BL0qtt8Gs

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Apr 11, 2015 4:07 am

Thanks for the link Scotty, I've signed up with AEVA and will most likely be looking over your shoulder as you transform your beemer.

FYI I've been running an XT 9-speed rear DR on the electric bike for a while now and it never shifted properly and it's down the to the shifter.
I know this because I installed an XT groupset on my new 29er today and the shifting is flawless.

Wiggle provided the groupset but stuffed up the gear levers (not i-spec) but to their credit they're sending me the right ones for no charge and I get to keep the non-i-spec XT ones,
which I can retro fit them to my electric bike.

Well played Wiggle!

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by 2old » Apr 11, 2015 4:22 pm

BBP, please indicate the origin of your frame. Thanks.

byebyepetrol
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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Apr 11, 2015 4:37 pm

It's from X-Goods (AKA ebaygoods aka abaygoods aka ebay carbonzone):

http://www.x-goods.com/en/products/xg-fr-216-matt.html

The only thing I'd change is the steering tube height; it's only 100mm which doesn't allow for a lot of fabric there
and the stresses on it are substantial. It's engineered of course but increasing the height would spread the load a lot better.

It also needs a fork with a tapered steerer. It would be a brilliant eBike platform especially with SLX / XT groupset IMHO.



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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Apr 30, 2015 7:44 pm

Further proof that the chainrings are made from hard cheddar:

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I'll have to buy an adaptor in order to run a better quality 48T chainring. It's started slipping this week after only 2-3 months.
I tried a dry wax lube and that helped.

New XT shifter is better but the rear DR needs to go; a clutched SLX is recommended.

2000km
Bike continues to perform; approaching 2000km mostly commuting rain or shine.

The hazardous road I had a prang on is being fixed as we speak.

Top-speed is still 40-42-43kmh on the flat comfortable maximum cadence.
Range is still an easy 80-90km.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » Apr 30, 2015 8:08 pm

So I guess the crank arms are made of better cheese because there only seems to be chainring adaptors available?

http://www.hi-powercycles.com/hpc-bafan ... g-gearing/

Still waiting on some bits that AusPost are taking an age to deliver for my rear hub upgrade.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » Apr 30, 2015 8:28 pm

Got a quick question on the chain staying on too. I think I am running a 48 tooth on the new rig I'm building and found I don't have room on the bars for the front shifter. I plan to just remove the lot, was thinking about a chain guide but it seems unnecessary given many bikes are fitting the mid drive and not using one. Does anyone reckon I'll have any issues keeping the chain on the big ring? Rear is an 11-32 8 speed. I'll see how I go on that but was thinking of 11-23 in the long run.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » Apr 30, 2015 10:23 pm

Hi Scotty,

Front DR? I don't miss mine.
I only use four cogs out of the nine cluster anyway.

A rear DR with a clutch also helps minimise chain movement. I have the XT clutched DR on my MTB and it's brilliant.
Likely I'll pop for the SLX version, since they're only $73AUD delivered.

Falsetto Snoring Mouse
I forgot to mention a while back (5 weeks) the charger fan started to get really loud while charging; the "falsetto snoring mouse " noise, so I disassembled it, removed the QC sticker
over the back of the fan and dropped some oil in right on the bearing and now it's just a pure fan noise.

Image

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » May 04, 2015 5:42 am

Adaptor arrived from emax.com.au

It's surprisingly precise; no filing or sanding or cursing needed to install AND it, together with a Shimano 44T was a lot lighter than the steel / cheddar Bafang 48T chainring.
Not an accurate comparison but until I get a 104bcd 48t alloy chainring I won't know exactly what the saving might be.


Adaptor included bolts:
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Out with the boat anchor:
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In with the bling:
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Saved 231g !

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by zan5hin » May 05, 2015 5:12 am

I have had my BBS01 for a few weeks now. I am kind of disappointed. I don't know what I am doing wrong, but I went for a ride yesterday at pedal assist mode 9 (with coding from emax ebikes) and I was pedalling the whole time. Unfortunately, the battery only lasted until 38km (13Ah battery). Nothing like your reported 80km range.

Also, the crappy chinese charger just died. So I have to get a new one under warranty or spend $300 on a cycle satiator, which I wouldn't need so much if my range was better.

I will do a full review thread of my own, once I have sorted out these issues, but at the moment, I am kind of ambivalent. Sure it is fun to ride an e-bike, but from my place to Fitzroy which is just on the other side of Melbourne and has lots of events and entertainment, it is a 30km round trip. With only 38km of battery, this is really cutting it close.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » May 05, 2015 6:22 am

Hi Zan5hin
That doesn't sound right. 38km with pedalling; not what I'd expect for a 13AHr pack.
I get 80km with 14AHr and comfortable pedalling, so expect 60-70 with a 13.

Need more info; got a photo of your rig? What sort of tyres? What tyre pressures?
What gear ratio (mine's now 44Tx11T)? When you get a chance stick a multimeter over the output of the battery after a charge; mine was 42V from memory.
Wheels spin freely? Dragging disc brake?

It's likely your battery is to blame. Temperature has an impact too I guess I lose 10% top speed over winter.
Have you got further than 38km at any stage?
If all else fails, check with emax if you can.

Chris.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by zan5hin » May 05, 2015 9:50 pm

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I weigh 81kg. Here is my rig. Giant Innova 2006 Hybrid but I installed trekking bars and a new seat.

Not the best photos at the moment. The one with the trailer (Which is a Burley Travoy, available on Amazon btw) is before I installed the battery.

The trailer weight is about 4.5kg itself and when I have used it, it usually has about 5kg-8kg of stuff on it. You are probably thinking, ah, it is all the trailer's fault but no, I have gone without the trailer and still hit the wall at about 38km.

My tyres are Maxxis Overdrive 700 x 40c w/anti puncture - I think it is 75 psi. These are thicker tyres but I like them because I feel safer going over tram tracks in Melbourne.

For the gears I have the standard 46T chainring with the Shimano Deore LX 9 speed rear derailleur, so I assume that is 46Tx9T? I want to get the Nuvinci N330 when it is released in a few months to stop all the crunching.

I have rim brakes, not disc brakes.

The wheels spin freely, but I just installed Zefal Paragon C50 mudguards: http://www.reidcycles.com.au/zefal-para ... guard.html (not in the photos)

I have had some issues with them hitting the wheel, but I can hear that happening and just re-adjust them.

Besides from that, I have the Kryptonite U-Lock attached as you can see in the photo (1.3kg)

I had gone on three big rides before I installed the mudguards, and also without the trailer attached and I also got around 38km so they aren't really the issue.

Ewan from eMax Ebikes did me a great deal on the Cycle Satiator, because of my faulty chinese charger. Really awesome service. I hope I can get more data from the LCD display on that, to tell me if my battery is 13AH when fully charged becaused I don't have a multimeter. I also saw some people can solder some sort of extra component that tells you in realtime the watts being used. That would be nice, but for me, I either need a plug and play solution or someone in Melbourne who can do that for me. My C961 display doesn't show that info, but I read that the other Bafang displays that do show watts, are not at all accurate.

In regards to my range, Ewan says most people use their ebikes at level 4 or 5 and that maybe running it at 9 is putting too much current and possibly voltage sag, and this is the reason for my limited range. So when I get the Satiator and can actually ride again, I will switch to assist level 8 and run another 38km test. Then 7, and so forth.

At least with the Satiator, being able to charge at 8 amps, silently, it means I can pull up to any cafe, library, house and get a full charge in about 90 minutes. However, I would still prefer a better range so any ideas you can give me, I would really appreciate.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » May 06, 2015 11:47 pm

Good luck with the charger, it sounds like the "duck's internals" (which is a good thing).

Your set-up looks aok and more than 38km should be expected so it's likely the cells aren't performing although there's always the
ultimate variable and that's your own pedalling input, it's hard to gauge but obviously it has a significant impact on range.

Drivetrain friction can also be a power-sapper; ensure the RD jockey cogs (the small ones) are free to spin as well as cranks.
Lube the chain; I clean mine by dragging it through a dirty rag thence to a cleaner rag while spinning the cranks. Use a lightweight oil/
CRC is no good it's too thin, fork out for the real thing if you can.

Tip: if you're out in the open without oil, use a car's dipstick to obtain some.

Cold weather has an impact but shouldn't reduce range by more than 10-15% from experience here in Tassie
which by the way has a sprinkling of snow down to 500m at the moment.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » May 07, 2015 6:06 am

Maintenance
Rear 12T cog kept slipping under extreme load and on inspection it's lost most of one tooth. Replaced with an almost equally toothless 14T.
Since ordered an XT cassette 11-34 from Wiggle and 3 x 29er tubes for 80AUD so the shipping is free.

SLX Shadow Plus RD arrived today from Wiggle (less than six days from the UK to Tasmania). Also picked-up a new 48T 104BCD Shimano chain ring from my
local bike shop.

Clunk
Curiosity pushed me to find out what the clunking noise was when I went over a bump on the road and I thought it was the mudguard.

It turns out the cell harness was free to move about 5 mm and clash with the internal bracing. Fixed by 3M dbl-sided tape
onto the foam stand-offs (see photo; red strips). At least it doesn't clunk any more given a vigorous shake.


50 cells | 18650; there's room for two more! Except the BMS would need a mjor tweak I expect.
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Cells are made in Japan | NCR18650PF
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Specs on the cell:
https://www.fasttech.com/product/145500 ... rgeable-li

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Tats » May 08, 2015 8:49 am

Ewan's pas 9 gives about 10.5amps - my 10ah Ping is getting me about the same 38kmh range over hilly terrain at that setting. I do 19kmh with a few throttle assists and use about 5.5ah on my giant talon 29er. If you are not using throttle then you're range sounds a little short, but not by much compared to my setup maybe 7 ks or so - if you have a big bike, 80kg rider, big flappy clothing. It may be a balancing problem if you haven't left the battery cycling on the charger for a few days. I'll check the amp draw per pas setting and do a few calcs and post back what I find. You may also want to check the discharge curve for your battery - the 0.8C to 1C curve should give an indication on volt drop/ah range.

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by eMax » May 11, 2015 7:37 am

zan5hin wrote: My C961 display doesn't show that info, but I read that the other Bafang displays that do show watts, are not at all accurate.

In regards to my range, Ewan says most people use their ebikes at level 4 or 5 and that maybe running it at 9 is putting too much current and possibly voltage sag, and this is the reason for my limited range. So when I get the Satiator and can actually ride again, I will switch to assist level 8 and run another 38km test. Then 7, and so forth.

At least with the Satiator, being able to charge at 8 amps, silently, it means I can pull up to any cafe, library, house and get a full charge in about 90 minutes. However, I would still prefer a better range so any ideas you can give me, I would really appreciate.
Hi guys. Good to hear you talking about efficiencies / range and how it is affected by different riders and gear setups. The most effective way to measure efficiency is with one of these gizmos http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OZ-Electric- ... 3641.l6368 Its a Sydney seller so if you guys are keen I can grab a couple, fit some Andersons and get them to you at cost price. Then you can start measuring wh per km and report back. I can then compare back to one of the newer packs..

By the way the majority of the frame battery BMS will not handle the 8a that the Satiator is capable of! Please don't go over 5a for the sake of the cells, the BMS and the connectors!
Riding LMX Freeride and eMax Edi 27.5 Prototype
eMax eBikes - Australian Based Electric Bike Sales & R&D

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » May 11, 2015 3:50 pm

Hi Ewan,
Thanks for the heads-up on these. Any idea of size?
[edit] Size:8.4cm x 5.0cm x 2cm

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Chris

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » May 12, 2015 8:02 pm

I took my Bafang 350w CST (rear hub) with 11.6 Ah dolphin eMax kit (some of it hand delivered at a pub lunch) out for the first commute yesterday. 39km (18 x 2) with a total 360m gain. Full build review and pics coming soon.

I arrived home with 3/4 indicators on the display and battery! I almost didn't bother charging it at all for today's run. I gave it about 40 mins of charge this morning just in case, and I arrived at work with the same 3/4 indicators, so I guess if there are 2/4 left when I get home then 2 days is viable. I think I will easily make it. That is with speed limit set to 35km/h and PAS set to 7/7 (mine was configured with 3 so i changed it to 7). With the Dillenger that has now gone to my son, I was getting just under the half battery mark (2/5 leds on battery) from 8Ah/250w front hub over the same commute. I was quite amazed. I'm 90kg.

I guess my question is should I be running the battery a fair way down (yesterday was also a demonic headwind so it was probably the toughest conditions on the battery) over two days or topping it up each night? I reckon hilly rides are making the huge difference here. What sort of gain over 39k are you guys calling "hilly"?

Those volt meters look cool, but I am just wondering where the hell I'd mount it!

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by eMax » May 13, 2015 3:44 am

Scotty T wrote: I guess my question is should I be running the battery a fair way down (yesterday was also a demonic headwind so it was probably the toughest conditions on the battery) over two days or topping it up each night? I reckon hilly rides are making the huge difference here. What sort of gain over 39k are you guys calling "hilly"?

Those volt meters look cool, but I am just wondering where the hell I'd mount it!
Hi Scotty. Was a decent brew and pub lunch that's for sure. Glad you sorted out the connectors and PAS location. It's not really about how often you charge, more about what level you charge to and how you store the battery when not being used. The best practice would be to keep the battery between 20% and 80% charge. The BMS will cut the power at around 10% but its the 80% charge which can be a bit trickier to figure out. One method is to time the charge from BMS cutoff to charger cutoff then use deduction to see how long the 80% charge will take. The cheapest and easiest option then is to use a timer on your powerpoint to cut power around the 80% mark. Another option is the Satiator chargers. You can set 80% charge cycles and also the rate of charge.

The little volt meters will be handy for figuring how many watt hours you use on your commute and using the total capacity of the pack to determine how many commutes you can fit into a single charge.
Riding LMX Freeride and eMax Edi 27.5 Prototype
eMax eBikes - Australian Based Electric Bike Sales & R&D

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » May 13, 2015 4:24 am

After this morning arriving with 3/4, this arvo it quickly dropped to 2/4 (about 5 km in), then I got it down to 1/4 on display for about the last 5km (mostly mellow climb from the river up to home) on 7 PAS and dropped it to 6 for the last 3 km, on arriving home it rose back up to 2/4 display. I think I will run 8-9 PAS tomorrow and see how it fares. I noticed a 2km/h difference from 6-7 on the PAS for the same pedal effort.

The Satiator might have to wait, I have much to spend on a charger and BMS for the car and at $12k for the battery pack I think I need to worry about that a lot more than the bikes :D

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by Scotty T » May 13, 2015 4:29 am

I'd be in for one of those meters too with connectors fitted by you. Maybe won't even permanent mount, just to geek out a bit now and then, see how much more power I am putting in as I get fitter :)

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by zan5hin » May 18, 2015 12:27 am

Ewan/Emax, I would also like one of the adapters if it is just plug and play with the Bafang kit with some kind of pass through between the motor and the controller or something.

I am not a weight weenie, my bike is chunky, so a lighter chainring won't make my bike much lighter, but will it improve the efficiency of the Bafang motor?

Meanwhile, I started using the satiator and it works well enough, just a shame I can't get 8 amps. I had to change size on some hurricane gloves from an etailer called vo2bikes so I went to their house in Mt Eliza by catching a train to Frankston and then I stopped home for 30min for a quick charge, I got about 1.4 amps (about 5km extra) before I had to leave, it is nice having the LCD. Ewan programmed three profiles for my battery, 4a fast, 3a standard and 3a to 80%. I will try to figure out how to add a new profile for 5a charge. Shame I can't go higher, if I knew going in I would have preferred to get a battery that can charge at 8a, but I can get that next year maybe.

It is great the satiator is silent, I had to charge my battery in the bathroom because it was noisy (and smelly when charging) with the old Chinese charger, but with the satiator I had it on my bedside table while I slept :)

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by eMax » May 18, 2015 1:11 am

No worries guys I have ordered the watt meters will let you know when they are ready. No obligation but good to have a few in stock.

The 8a charge setting would normally be used in a pack with a large amount of cells (60+). The frame packs have between 30 and 47. I can upgrade the BMS and connectors to handle the 8a (the charger connector I make can handle 7a) but it would still be putting too much stress on the cells.
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eMax eBikes - Australian Based Electric Bike Sales & R&D

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Re: Bafang BBS01 350w vs Dillenger 250w front hub

Post by byebyepetrol » May 18, 2015 1:49 am

New Drivetrain

New KMC 10-speed chain, new XT 10-speed cluster, new 48T chainring and new SLX RD has made it smooth and quiet.
The clunk from the battery pack is gone.

Top-speed is now 46kmh on the flat, no wind. Comfortable cadence (no stress) maybe 42-44.

I'd like to see a 16.5AHr battery on a 29er with slick tyres and around 18Kg, that would push 50kmh and 90-100km range I reckon.

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