The Haleakala Volcano test

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lemmiwinks   100 W

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Post by lemmiwinks » Apr 16 2007 7:08pm

Lowell wrote:I wonder how many hub motors got sold during this thread?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 16 2007 7:20pm

lemmiwinks wrote:
Lowell wrote:I wonder how many hub motors got sold during this thread?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I wonder how many ebikes with hub motors were never used again after they broke down in a month after there purchase?
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Lowell   1 MW

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Post by Lowell » Apr 16 2007 7:24pm

EbikeMaui wrote:
lemmiwinks wrote:
Lowell wrote:I wonder how many hub motors got sold during this thread?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I wonder how many ebikes with hub motors were never used again after they broke down in a month after there purchase?
How many motors have you sold again?

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 17 2007 11:29pm

Lowell wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote:
lemmiwinks wrote:
Lowell wrote:I wonder how many hub motors got sold during this thread?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I wonder how many ebikes with hub motors were never used again after they broke down in a month after there purchase?
How many motors have you sold again?
0 . how many trolls did you bring with you?
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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 17 2007 11:53pm

lemmiwinks wrote:That more or less matches my recollection Reid. Though I believe Randy was in for some $$ if the project was a success so perhaps it could be considered that technically he sold a motor, however I don't really care. His motor is actually a modified wind turbine, I can't recall nor do I care about the specifics.

I've had this debate ad nauseum with Randy previously and I've seen many others waste their time having similar discussions. There is no point, the motor is nothing special, the drivetrain is nothing special, it's just a one off home brewed ebike that works well for it's builder. Nothing unique there either.

I find it irritating when someone who has no experience with a mass produced kit attacks satisified customers of said kits, but I learned long ago to ignore such ignorant commentary. I'm mainly in this thread to giggle at the Randy-baiting, I've read all his responses before in other forums (they never stray far from the well established pattern).
No a Wind Turbine alternator made from a Ford alternator is nothing specail.Either is making a rotor and putting the right magnets in the right place using many available automotive stators and housings.Having a quality Arospace electronics company design a controller to my specs is also nothing specail.I was the first to apply a motor to a Sram Dual Drive Hub and they ARE! specail. So is the whole combination! At the cost it would be the cheapest to make.You fail to relize no one has matched performance YET! and you make it sound like the products you can buy cheap are better.A few forum leaders Know it all dont you? Thanks for the laugh. I just show you what is possible for any one to make at a cheap price with better performance that YOU obviously can not reproduce YOURSELF It may inspire others that Can figure it out.
Do your own homework if you want something better than what you have. or piss on me and keep your heads where the sun don't shine.
This is America and hub motor businessmen? hahahaha
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Mathurin   100 kW

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Post by Mathurin » Apr 18 2007 1:18am

EbikeMaui wrote:[...]You fail to relize no one has matched performance YET! [...]
In order to match performance, said performance must first be quantified.
You have to know, not fear, that someday you are going to die. Until you know that and embrace that, you are useless. - Tyler Durden, Fight club. Ditch the fake identity you've created for yourself, walk your own way in a society of mindless drones to become real, you are not your social status.

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 18 2007 7:49am

Mathurin wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote:[...]You fail to relize no one has matched performance YET! [...]
In order to match performance, said performance must first be quantified.
Is that like a race ?
http://tinyurl.com/2sn8ql
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lemmiwinks   100 W

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Post by lemmiwinks » Apr 18 2007 5:36pm

EbikeMaui wrote: ...making a rotor and putting the right magnets in the right place using many available automotive stators and housings.Having a quality Arospace electronics company design a controller to my specs... At the cost it would be the cheapest to make...I just show you what is possible for any one to make at a cheap price
So you start out by telling us how complex it is (you needed "aerospace" engineers to build the controller), and finish up by saying it's so easy for anyone to make for cheap. Hmmmm....

Do you honestly not see the contradiction?

Exactly which is it? An expensive one-off motor made of bits and peices using a complex controller which had to be custom built by electrical engineers, or a simple conversion done on the cheap?

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 18 2007 5:49pm

lemmiwinks wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote: ...making a rotor and putting the right magnets in the right place using many available automotive stators and housings.Having a quality Arospace electronics company design a controller to my specs... At the cost it would be the cheapest to make...I just show you what is possible for any one to make at a cheap price
So you start out by telling us how complex it is (you needed "aerospace" engineers to build the controller), and finish up by saying it's so easy for anyone to make for cheap. Hmmmm....

Do you honestly not see the contradiction?

Exactly which is it? An expensive one-off motor made of bits and peices using a complex controller which had to be custom built by electrical engineers, or a simple conversion done on the cheap?
The inexpensive motors could also use cheap poorly designed X lyte controllers and still be more efficent than a hub moor.
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lemmiwinks   100 W

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Post by lemmiwinks » Apr 18 2007 5:58pm

EbikeMaui wrote: The inexpensive motors could also use cheap poorly designed X lyte controllers and still be more efficent than a hub moor.
So you start out by telling us how complex it is (you needed "aerospace" engineers to build the controller), and finish up by saying it's so easy for anyone to make for cheap. Hmmmm....

Do you honestly not see the contradiction?

Exactly which is it? An expensive one-off motor made of bits and peices using a complex controller which had to be custom built by electrical engineers, or a simple conversion done on the cheap?

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   10 MW

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Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Apr 18 2007 8:17pm

lemmiwinks wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote: The inexpensive motors could also use cheap poorly designed X lyte controllers and still be more efficent than a hub moor.
So you start out by telling us how complex it is (you needed "aerospace" engineers to build the controller), and finish up by saying it's so easy for anyone to make for cheap. Hmmmm....

Do you honestly not see the contradiction?

Exactly which is it? An expensive one-off motor made of bits and peices using a complex controller which had to be custom built by electrical engineers, or a simple conversion done on the cheap?

Actually the contradiction I've taken objection to since the beginning of this thread is Randy's charge that no manufacturer has mass produced something as good as what he has. When in fact Randy hasn't mass produced anything at all.

Having hand built at one time about a thousand units of a small circuit board that I designed, I found out that inventing & designing a product or device is about 1% of the total journey. This is a basic mistake that most inventors make. They figure they've got the next great mouse-trap & sit back to wait for the world to beat a path to their door.

Fact is there are thousands if not millions of people that could make the same circuit I produced, or Justin's DrainBrain or Randy's ebike design, probably better & cheaper. To take a product from prototype to production, you then have to invent the process to build the product cheaply. Just about anyone can, with some effort get to this point also.

By far the greatest effort has to go into marketing, to invent a need for your product & find a way create a market out of nothing. The bottom line *is* the bottom line, to create profit. A manufacturer is going to build for the broadest base of buyers, the lowest common denominator to maximize profit. That happens not to include volcano climbing, but just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. They're not going to design & build a volcano beater if there's no money in it, simply for the exclusive purpose of being able to claim bragging rights of some bulletin boards. Anyone that would do that would have to be kinda pathetic.

Randy, don't kid yourself that only you have seen the light & have a lock on the truth. Optibike may not have produced & sold many copies of their design in your opinion. At least they are in the game & if they sold only one, that is an infinite percentage more than you have.

In the past seven plus years you've railed & bemoaned the lack of any contenders to your design, could you not have produced & sold at least one bike per year if it's so simple & cheap to build? I'm fairly certain 'knightmb' is a bigger producer of ebikes than you ever will be. An ebike that is real & anyone can buy is of greater efficiency & longevity than a video of something unattainable & therefore rulez!
Kick down the barricades Listen what the kids say.
From time to time people change their minds But the Frock is here to stay.
I've seen it all from the bottom to the top Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.
Around the world or around the block Everywhere I go the kids wanna Frock.

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lemmiwinks   100 W

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Post by lemmiwinks » Apr 18 2007 8:37pm

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:Actually the contradiction I've taken objection to since the beginning of this thread is Randy's charge that no manufacturer has mass produced something as good as what he has. When in fact Randy hasn't mass produced anything at all.
Oh I agree, I'm just passing the time at work mainly...
Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:Having hand built at one time about a thousand units of a small circuit board that I designed, I found out that inventing & designing a product or device is about 1% of the total journey.
Might I enquire as to your production methods? I have no grand designs to make thousands or even hundreds, maybe tens at most. I'm using an iron to transfer toner from paper (one success and plenty of unsatisfactory results with plain copy paper, now trying glossy inkjet paper) but it's a bit tedious. I'd rather not use photosensitive board (but I'm still interested to hear your methods if that's what you used). Feel free to PM if you'd rather not post off topic.

<snip good points I agree with>

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 22 2007 7:34pm

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:
lemmiwinks wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote: The inexpensive motors could also use cheap poorly designed X lyte controllers and still be more efficent than a hub moor.
So you start out by telling us how complex it is (you needed "aerospace" engineers to build the controller), and finish up by saying it's so easy for anyone to make for cheap. Hmmmm....

Do you honestly not see the contradiction?

Exactly which is it? An expensive one-off motor made of bits and peices using a complex controller which had to be custom built by electrical engineers, or a simple conversion done on the cheap?

Actually the contradiction I've taken objection to since the beginning of this thread is Randy's charge that no manufacturer has mass produced something as good as what he has. When in fact Randy hasn't mass produced anything at all.

Having hand built at one time about a thousand units of a small circuit board that I designed, I found out that inventing & designing a product or device is about 1% of the total journey. This is a basic mistake that most inventors make. They figure they've got the next great mouse-trap & sit back to wait for the world to beat a path to their door.

Fact is there are thousands if not millions of people that could make the same circuit I produced, or Justin's DrainBrain or Randy's ebike design, probably better & cheaper. To take a product from prototype to production, you then have to invent the process to build the product cheaply. Just about anyone can, with some effort get to this point also.

By far the greatest effort has to go into marketing, to invent a need for your product & find a way create a market out of nothing. The bottom line *is* the bottom line, to create profit. A manufacturer is going to build for the broadest base of buyers, the lowest common denominator to maximize profit. That happens not to include volcano climbing, but just because they don't, doesn't mean they can't. They're not going to design & build a volcano beater if there's no money in it, simply for the exclusive purpose of being able to claim bragging rights of some bulletin boards. Anyone that would do that would have to be kinda pathetic.

Randy, don't kid yourself that only you have seen the light & have a lock on the truth. Optibike may not have produced & sold many copies of their design in your opinion. At least they are in the game & if they sold only one, that is an infinite percentage more than you have.

In the past seven plus years you've railed & bemoaned the lack of any contenders to your design, could you not have produced & sold at least one bike per year if it's so simple & cheap to build? I'm fairly certain 'knightmb' is a bigger producer of ebikes than you ever will be. An ebike that is real & anyone can buy is of greater efficiency & longevity than a video of something unattainable & therefore rulez!
YES to sell ebikes cheap you do need a market.Right now each kind of kit has a very small nitch dependind on what kind of riding and performance you expect.Yes some people are satisfied with what is available.IF or when all options seem too expensive to up grade or get performance on, or for some reason disapear then what? The option I made only requires a junk yard stator, 1. a rotor made by anyone with a milling machine 2.magnets.3. Three 75 cent hall sensors on a fiberboard. 4. A quality controller. (Right now other than few companies that have the ability to make a large volumes at a cheap price WITH Quality! you have to pay about $200. per controller ito have made in small quantities or Put up with the Chineese crap that IS available cheap.Or buy a NICE Sevcon. Ok that's just the motor part of it. Part Two would be bracket for the peticular bike. All the rest of the parts are VERY reasonably priced bicycle and gokart parts ADDING UP TO LESS THAN $50. AND ARE AVAILABLE! If you want a 1 speed option. A 3 speed Option the cost of a sram dual drive hub and shifters is under $160. Retail if you look around.The same Gocart parts (three total) are used on the 1 or 3 speed.ALL derailer parts are UNNEADED and this is a savings in many ways. At least my design has a future because NO ONE ELSE HAS made there own version to relize the full potentail of a DYI that will! some day be copied once anyone has the desire to figure it out.
This is for your own great results with a stronger , more porerful single system that is easily adjusted for MULTIPAL USES as where the best hub motors have a pretty narrow range after comparing the Real facts.
The Option is all I keep going. Some Day Some One Will remember my rambelings.... IF they have the right decoder. LOL Until Electric Bikes are Legal again and Lithiums are cheaper A fleet starting with a dozen Lipo Motocross Ebikes A NEW Eco Tour IN HAWAII to the Jrassic Park Waterfall on aluminum frame 125 dirtbikes . The newly made "5 to 20 Acre Coffee Estates" at Kapalua is where any new owners will have access to the roads up a 2000 ft elevation climb to the 2200 Rainforest.A 20 min trip up without stopping but a tour will stop and go fairly slow for safety.Off shoots could be 30 min endero or 20 min motocross races in back yards or parks.Fishermans Legal Beach vehicles in Hawaii (E ATV) Lots of markets Im looking into.If anycame up with anything I can use ???? besides a blade or electricross com on over and show it too me. It mush have a efficient 1499 watts BH to the wheel and a proven 16 ah lithium pack that will survive this hill climb every day for two years.The whole 26" wheel suspension bike must weigh under 80 Lbs including a 24"x 3.50 belted motorcycle tire and lightweight rear rim and 16Ah X 72 volt battery pack.=700 cycles.300 I would be stoked! if? the 300 cycle life WAS consistant.

Showing and selling the most expenseve farm realestate in the world (with the best views) I am beginning to see VALUE in a small batch.!
Last edited by EbikeMaui on Apr 22 2007 8:24pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Instant Karma » Apr 22 2007 8:22pm

EbikeMaui wrote:YES to sell ebikes cheap you do need a market.Right now each kind of kit has a very small nitch dependind on what kind of riding and performance you expect.Yes some people are satisfied with what is available.IF or when all options seem too expensive to up grade or get performance on, or for some reason disapear then what? The option I made only requires a junk yard stator, 1. a rotor made by anyone with a milling machine 2.magnets.3. Three 75 cent hall sensors on a fiberboard. 4. A quality controller. (Right now other than few companies that have the ability to make a large volumes at a cheap price WITH Quality! you have to pay about $200. per controller ito have made in small quantities or Put up with the Chineese crap that IS available cheap.Or buy a NICE Sevcon. Ok that's just the motor part of it. Part Two would be bracket for the peticular bike. All the rest of the parts are VERY reasonably priced bicycle and gokart parts ADDING UP TO LESS THAN $50. AND ARE AVAILABLE! If you want a 1 speed option. A 3 speed Option the cost of a sram dual drive hub and shifters is under $160. Retail if you look around.The same Gocart parts (three total) are used on the 1 or 3 speed.ALL derailer parts are UNNEADED and this is a savings in many ways. At least my design has a future because NO ONE ELSE HAS made there own version to relize the full potentail of a DYI that will! some day be copied once anyone has the desire to figure it out.
This is for your own great results with a stronger , more porerful single system that is easily adjusted for MULTIPAL USES as where the best hub motors have a pretty narrow range after comparing the Real facts.
The Option is all I keep going. Some Day Some One Will remember my rambelings.... IF they have the right decoder. LOL
Hey, mauisailer how's it going? Saw a couple of your videos last year and was impressed with the 3 speeds going up hills. About your bike, did you have to do any welding for brackets, etc? And since few of us can make a motor are there any comparable ones on the market that comes close to yours? I noticed you didn't pedal too much on the videos does your bike have freewheeling capabilities or is there cogging, like in hub motors? thx

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EbikeMaui   1 kW

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Post by EbikeMaui » Apr 22 2007 8:39pm

Instant Karma wrote:
EbikeMaui wrote:YES to sell ebikes cheap you do need a market.Right now each kind of kit has a very small nitch dependind on what kind of riding and performance you expect.Yes some people are satisfied with what is available.IF or when all options seem too expensive to up grade or get performance on, or for some reason disapear then what? The option I made only requires a junk yard stator, 1. a rotor made by anyone with a milling machine 2.magnets.3. Three 75 cent hall sensors on a fiberboard. 4. A quality controller. (Right now other than few companies that have the ability to make a large volumes at a cheap price WITH Quality! you have to pay about $200. per controller ito have made in small quantities or Put up with the Chineese crap that IS available cheap.Or buy a NICE Sevcon. Ok that's just the motor part of it. Part Two would be bracket for the peticular bike. All the rest of the parts are VERY reasonably priced bicycle and gokart parts ADDING UP TO LESS THAN $50. AND ARE AVAILABLE! If you want a 1 speed option. A 3 speed Option the cost of a sram dual drive hub and shifters is under $160. Retail if you look around.The same Gocart parts (three total) are used on the 1 or 3 speed.ALL derailer parts are UNNEADED and this is a savings in many ways. At least my design has a future because NO ONE ELSE HAS made there own version to relize the full potentail of a DYI that will! some day be copied once anyone has the desire to figure it out.
This is for your own great results with a stronger , more porerful single system that is easily adjusted for MULTIPAL USES as where the best hub motors have a pretty narrow range after comparing the Real facts.
The Option is all I keep going. Some Day Some One Will remember my rambelings.... IF they have the right decoder. LOL
Hey, mauisailer how's it going? Saw a couple of your videos last year and was impressed with the 3 speeds going up hills. About your bike, did you have to do any welding for brackets, etc? And since few of us can make a motor are there any comparable ones on the market that comes close to yours? I noticed you didn't pedal too much on the videos does your bike have freewheeling capabilities or is there cogging, like in hub motors? thx
It's ALL the best features that you can imagine with minimal parts.Info is in the archives.
Thanks for your interest. There isn't any small effeiient high torque motor that i know of that fits between the pedals "2 1/2 thick" , single chain reduction motor drive with these specs with a quality controller. Motor Mounts can be made in many ways or places.
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