BMSBattery.com's "Case-08" Battery Pack

jsmay311

10 mW
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
24
UPDATE (9-29-15): Turns out that the Case-08 battery case design isn't nearly as bad as I had originally posted...

After weeks of BMSBattery refusing to talk to me at all about my problems or my desire to return my Case-08 battery (due to the issues mentioned in the original post, below), I finally filed a dispute with PayPal to try to force some action. It was at that point that BMSBattery actually started communicating with me, and after a few emails, they pointed out that there were 3 small rubber pieces that came with the kit that can be used to adapt the flat plastic mounting bracket onto a round down tube. (I've attached a photo of this piece.)

IMG_9565.JPG

I tried re-installing the pack with these rubber pieces included, and the final assembly was reasonably stiff and seems robust enough to use. I'm still a tad wary of the plastic construction of the mounting bracket, but I was able to get the screws pretty darn tight, and the rubber pieces seem to spread out the clamping load pretty well.
**I did make sure to add some Loctite onto the screw threads in case the screws might want to back out/loosen in response to vibration during riding.**

In my own defense, I think it was a stretch to expect someone to realize exactly what these particularly rubber pieces were intended for -- especially given that literally zero instructions were included with the kit, nor were there any instructions available online. So I had assumed that these pieces were for clamping something to the handlebars. And absent ANY customer support, what should have been a quick fix of a simple misunderstanding ballooned into a huge issue.

So this new info mostly nullifies my complaints in points #1 and #2 below (in my original post).
However, point #3 is still a problem for my bike, especially since I noticed that mounting the pack backward/upside-down (i.e., with the wires pointing up towards the handlebars), means that there are 2 potential water infiltration spots up on the front/top of the pack where I think water could get install the pack or controller. One of these spots is where the wires exit the controller, which should be pretty easy to caulk. But the other spot is at a joint between the battery case and the controller, which could also be caulked, but would have to be re-caulked anytime you need to remove the battery from the bike, or if direct sunlight degrades the caulk over time. I'm currently waiting to hear back from BMSBattery on this point, as the guy I was talking to (Suga) is currently out on vacation.

IMG_9568.JPG

But, other than that point #3 issue, I'm feeling cautiously hopeful that this kit might actually work ok after all. Long-term quality and longevity will certainly take time to assess tho. And I'll come back and post more if I have any further updates. (I also attached a photo showing the various components that came with the battery to fill out the kit, except for the motor.)

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ORIGINAL POST:

I’m generally a fan of battery packs that are designed to mount to the down tube on a bike frame using the water bottle holder bosses, and I recently ordered such a pack from BMSBattery.com. It’s referred to as the “Case-08” pack.

Specifically, I got the 36V 14.5Ah version with Panasonic cells and an integrated 18A controller for $379+shipping. https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/773-36v145ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html But the tech specs are kinda out-of-scope for this review, as this review pertains entirely to the design of the pack's case and mounting bracket. Bottom line, I just wanted to post this to warn people away from this particular product.

The battery case’s design has 3 key flaws, all in the mounting bracket:

1. The mounting bracket, which bolts onto the frame, is made of a pretty flimsy plastic.
Every other frame-mounted pack that I’ve come across previously is either made of metal or is made with a combination of metal and plastic, where the metal provides most of the strength to the part.

2. The shape of the mounting bracket is almost entirely flat. This results in 2 serious problems:

-This means that when mounting the flat bracket onto a round down tube, the only points of contact are a few square millimeters on the tops of the bosses. This results in a pack that is very unsteady and can rock back and forth so much that there’s no way that the plastic mounting bracket will last long before cracking. (This is my personal/professional assessment as a mechanical engineer.) It also means that a (relative) ton of bending stress will go through the mounting bolts and directly into the bosses as the 8lb pack rocks and vibrates back and forth while riding the bike.
I’ve had 3 similar packs in the past, and none of them have had flat mounting brackets. They’ve either been C-channels, where points of contact are made on the sides of the down tube, or they’ve had rounded undersides that contour to the down tube (like BMSBattery’s “Bottle-09” pack, which is well-designed IMO).

-The flat design also means that the bracket inherently has very little bending strength (aka “flexural strength”), which contributes even further to how much the pack can sway side-to-side and increases the likelihood that the mounting bracket will eventually fail.

3. The location of the mounting holes and slots in the mounting bracket are positioned too far “forward” on the pack (6 inches, such that I couldn’t even install the pack on my bike in the correct orientation* (i.e., such that the pack would have to be lifted up and forward to be taken off of the mounting bracket). The “rear” of the pack (the side with the wires) hits the seat tube and prevents the mounting holes from lining up with the water bottle holder bosses in the frame. This is despite my frame triangle being quite spacious, and the water bottle bosses being in a typical position along the down tube (this statement is simply based on what I’m used to seeing on other bike frames). Plus, I have had 2 different packs mounted in the same frame previously without any clearance issues.
The only way to get it to physically fit in the frame would have been to install in “upside down”, such that gravity would slide the pack out of its mounting bracket if it wasn’t properly locked in place.

I've uploaded a video of me VERY lightly wiggling the pack with my fingers and showing how un-sturdy the mounting bracket is: [EDIT: I've deleted the video from Youtube since it showed the battery pack WITHOUT the rubber adapter pieces installed that I later learned help to stabilize the pack on the frame]
And I've attached a few photos as well.

(On a side note, it's really too bad that the "Case-08" case is so poorly designed, cuz it looked like this kit was gonna be pretty slick overall. It comes with a handlebar-mounted LCD screen that serves kinda like a Cycle Analyst, displaying speed, watts, distance, etc., and also allows you to select from 5 different (programmable(?)) speeds. And all of the handlebar connections (LCD display, throttle, brakes) are made with color-coded, water-tight connectors splitting off from a single wiring harness. And all of the motor-to-controller phase and sensor connections are made in one compact, round, water-tight 9-pin connector. (Probably not suited for higher power setups, but this kit's controller was limited to just 18A.)

BMSBattery also sells a pack called "Bottle-09" which is much better designed and actually mounts securely to the frame. It uses a mounting bracket that is mostly plastic but also includes an aluminum piece for structural strength.)
 

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Thanks for posting your experience with BMS Battery's "Case-08" battery pack. I was seriously considering their 48V version of the same pack. The features and specs looked really good for a nice clean install. But now I will definitely look at other options.
 
Thanks for the post and being the guinea pig. I have the older "09" style and I'm pretty happy with it. My buddy just ordered the "08" style before I saw your other post and video yesterday. Guess we'll have to figure out a way to secure it better as returning it is pretty much not an option.
 
Flyin, good choice; I've read quite a few posts about BMS Battery, some good some bad, but I've never read one where a refund was issued. It's basically a one way trip for any goods.
 
I was given an instant refund when I asked. They had my money, but my order had not shipped yet.
 
I am a little worried about mounting a heavy battery onto my water bottle screws. Is it ok to put close to 10 lbs on those and then go over a bumpy road?
 
rsilvers said:
I am a little worried about mounting a heavy battery onto my water bottle screws. Is it ok to put close to 10 lbs on those and then go over a bumpy road?

I've got two case-09 batteries, also called dolphins by EM3EV and elifebike. The mount can use the water bottle screws. On my facory e-bike, they used three screws, but there is still a slight wiggle. I felt two screws would not be enough on my kit bike, so I added two extra clamps.

The dolphin style also uses a plastic piece to contact the frame, but it is rounded to sit on either a flat or curved tube. Also, there is a metal strip attached to the plastic so the screws will be clamping onto metal, with the plastic as an inner later. The back of the mount is cast aluminum, which normally doesn't attach to the frame. I drilled two holes for a u-clamp. In place of a third bottle screw, I screwed in a hose clamp. No wiggle at all.
clamper-1.jpg
hoser-1.jpg
battery-1.jpg


I am disappointed that the case-08 style is screwed up with a flawed design, and appreciate the heads up from jsmay311. If I got stuck with one, I think I would attach a metal plate under the plastic and figure out a way to clamp it with hose clamps.
 
I just updated my original post on this thread with new pertinent information that puts the Case-08 battery in a significantly better light. You can read it above, but I'll also copy/paste the text here. (See above for the photos.)

UPDATE (9-29-15): Turns out that the Case-08 battery case design isn't nearly as bad as I had originally posted...

After weeks of BMSBattery refusing to talk to me at all about my problems or my desire to return my Case-08 battery (due to the issues mentioned in the original post, below), I finally filed a dispute with PayPal to try to force some action. It was at that point that BMSBattery actually started communicating with me, and after a few emails, they pointed out that there were 3 small rubber pieces that came with the kit that can be used to adapt the flat plastic mounting bracket onto a round down tube. (I've attached a photo of this piece.)

[See above for a photo of this rubber piece.]

I tried re-installing the pack with these rubber pieces included, and the final assembly was reasonably stiff and seems robust enough to use. I'm still a tad wary of the plastic construction of the mounting bracket, but I was able to get the screws pretty darn tight, and the rubber pieces seem to spread out the clamping load pretty well.
**I did make sure to add some Loctite onto the screw threads in case the screws might want to back out/loosen in response to vibration during riding.**

In my own defense, I think it was a stretch to expect someone to realize exactly what these particularly rubber pieces were intended for -- especially given that literally zero instructions were included with the kit, nor were there any instructions available online. So I had assumed that these pieces were for clamping something to the handlebars. And absent ANY customer support, what should have been a quick fix of a simple misunderstanding ballooned into a huge issue.

So this new info mostly nullifies my complaints in points #1 and #2 below (in my original post).
However, point #3 is still a problem for my bike, especially since I noticed that mounting the pack backward/upside-down (i.e., with the wires pointing up towards the handlebars), means that there are 2 potential water infiltration spots up on the front/top of the pack where I think water could get install the pack or controller. One of these spots is where the wires exit the controller, which should be pretty easy to caulk. But the other spot is at a joint between the battery case and the controller, which could also be caulked, but would have to be re-caulked anytime you need to remove the battery from the bike, or if direct sunlight degrades the caulk over time. I'm currently waiting to hear back from BMSBattery on this point, as the guy I was talking to (Suga) is currently out on vacation.

[See the original post for a photo of the potential water infiltration paths when the pack is installed with the wires facing the front.]

But, other than that point #3 issue, I'm feeling cautiously hopeful that this kit might actually work ok after all. Long-term quality and longevity will certainly take time to assess tho. And I'll come back and post more if I have any further updates. (I also attached a photo showing the various components that came with the battery to fill out the kit, except for the motor.)
 
I can't understand why you can't fit the battery lower in your triangle so that there would be enough room to remove it when mounted the right way up. If your clinch nuts are in the wrong position, you can add another one or two. They cost nearly nothing and another one (or two) will add strength to the mounting.
 
Found this thread a few weeks ago, just minutes after ordering a Case-08 pack from BMSBbattery. I was slightly fearing that I had bought a fancy paperweight..

My unit arrived yesterday, and I would like to share my experiences. The short version is that I don't think the Case-08 or BMSbattery deserves the beating they have received in this thread (which is also confirmed by the edit made to the first post!)

After ordering, it took just 2.5 weeks to get to me (Belgium) of which 2 weeks BMSBattery "QC" and "Testing" and just a few days with DHL shipping. Incredibly fast!
Initially I selected another (cheaper) shipping company, BMS contacted me via email, stating that for shipping batteries I had to go with DHL. I agreed and expected to receive a mail to pay for the shipping cost difference, but BMS shipped the case the very next day, without billing me for the extra shipping cost 8)

Pictures of the case installed in my bike will follow later today.

- Battery arrived undamaged and was packaged with great care. Sturdy box, lots of bubble wrap and shrink wrap scratch protection. The lock keys (2x) are taped to the unit and come with some sort of serial number. Not sure if that means anything, probably not. As stated before, there is absolutely no documentation supplied.

- Out of the box, the case fits nicely in my frame (21 inch Giant MTB frame), in the correct orientation. (Cable side down)
Granted, there is not a lot of room between the rear of the battery and the frame (perhaps 2mm)
With this amount of play, removal of the battery is no problem (it slides up, so needs no extra room at the back).
However, the base plate that attaches to the bike frame has 1 drilled hole and 1 elongated slot about 2.5cm in length that fit the two bottle cage bolts. Moving the battery up towards the front of the bike is as easy as drilling a single 5mm hole. There is plenty of material to do this without weakening the plate. My guess is you can get at least 2.5cm of extra room this way. Probably still not enough to fit the smallest frames, but it should fit on most bikes.

- With the supplied rubber pieces (see the updated start post) the battery fits quite snugly on my frame. I would still not recommend to attach it using just the two bottle cage bolts. The U clamp mod (see a few posts above) which bolts into the aluminium part that holds the connector is great. Simple to make and adds a lot of strength.

-The unit seems pretty waterproof. The top of the case is a single piece of plastic and there is hardly any chance for water to get in from above or the sides. From the rear and below, waterproofness is a little less. Mudguards that prevent spray from the rear or below will be necessary to be able to ride prolonged through rain.
The charge port is located opposite the lock and consists of a standard DC barrel jack. A rubber plug closes the connector when not in use. The plug is attached to the case with a small string so you don't lose it. The battery can be charged both on and off the bike.

-The connection and lock mechanism are pretty decent. The battery slides onto the plate without much effort and could easily be done in the dark. The system is comparable to the rear cover of my Samsung smartphone. Place the battery, slide down and it snaps into place. After this, lock it using the key and I am certain it will not go anywhere. Do not expect the lock/key to prevent theft of the battery. I am sure that if someone really wants to steal it, the lock will not stop them.

-Cable connection
The battery connects (electrically) to the base plate using 4 beefy prongs that are not likely to break (only two are actually used, just + and -, the two remaining prongs are unconnected, but they do add to the strength of the connector). A nice touch is that the negative - terminal has a longer prong to make sure it connects first (just like a USB connector).
The connector is enclosed in a single aluminium block, which is part of the base plate. This aluminium block is quite large and has a lot of empty space on the inside (perhaps for a controller?). Inside, there is a provision for a cable pull relief, which is a nice feature.

-Charger
The provided charger is a standard bmsbattery 180W unit. I was pleasantly surprised by the build quality. I have not opened it up to look inside, but the construction is strong and the finish is nice. Far better than most Chinese products.

Summary:

The good:
So far, this unit is looking like great value for money. It is not perfect, but quite some thought has gone in to it, and I dare say that anything I can buy locally that has the same quality is at least 2-3x more expensive.
- In my experience, BMSbattery has provided great service and was fast to reply.
I have read a lot of bad reviews here, but after this experience I would definitely do business with them again.
Might be hit-or-miss with the level of their service, might be a typical case of only bad reviews being placed online, while the happy customers keep quiet. YMMV.
- Did I say cheap?

The bad
- Needs a slight modification to fit snugly (although with the supplied rubber pieces, you can probably get away without this. I did the U-clamp mod in 5 minutes as it gives me peace of mind)
- Might not fit your bike without modification, depending on frame size.
 
d8veh said:
I can't understand why you can't fit the battery lower in your triangle so that there would be enough room to remove it when mounted the right way up.

The problem is the opposite. It's too far down and hits the seat tube.

d8veh said:
If your clinch nuts are in the wrong position, you can add another one or two. They cost nearly nothing and another one (or two) will add strength to the mounting.

This hadn't occurred to me. Sounds like this is a pretty easy thing for a local bike shop to do? If so, it might be worth doing, as it would resolve my water infiltration concerns.
 
PeterT12,

I'd concur with pretty much everything in your post. Sorry to have worried you with my initial misimpressions.

PeterT12 said:
The connector is enclosed in a single aluminium block, which is part of the base plate. This aluminium block is quite large and has a lot of empty space on the inside (perhaps for a controller?). Inside, there is a provision for a cable pull relief, which is a nice feature.

Yeah, that space is for a controller, which I got in my battery. The problem for me was that space for the controller is so long that it pushes the mounting holes too far forward to use the existing "water bottle holder" bosses in my frame, since it pushes the pack back into the seat tube. (I need to explore adding new bosses further up the down tube to resolve this issue.)

Also, when you mention the "provision for a cable pull relief", are you referring to the 2 threaded holes in the aluminum on either side of where the wires exit? If so, I agree that it's potentially a nice feature if someone actually disassembles the pack, finds the right screws to fit the holes, and fabricates a piece to screw into place and clamp the wires. But I was more disappointed that BMSBattery wouldn't simply install the necessary parts to clamp the wires in place themselves before shipping. Especially in the case where you get the pack with a controller... there are lots of tiny-gauge wires connecting to the circuit board with nothing protecting them from getting yanked out.
 
I agree that the issue with the position of the water bottle mounting points has to be resolved on the BMSbattery site.
The very least they can do is provide a detailed drawing showing where the holes are, so you can work out the measurements for yourself.
Next to that, a warning about the size or a guide on how to modify it to fit your bike would be nice.

Having said that, when ordering this sort of stuff, my expectations are low and I always assume some amount of DIY'ing to get it to fit is involved and nothing works out of the box. That's what you pay for. In this case, I was positively surprised.
I realise some people might have higher expectations (and they should, that's the only way to make sure bms keep working on improving their products).
These people should at least be warned by BMS that this might not fit the bike without some modification.

PS. On the base plate itself, there is a weblink printed (not sure which as I don't have the battery with me now). On this site, which seems to be from the company that actually makes the packs, there is a lot of info about all their products. I have not found these exact units yet, but perhaps there is some more info regarding measurements there.
If not, we could always decide to create some sort of FAQ/guide for forum users interested in buying this product.
 
I'm also thinking to buy this battery for my next project (the version with the controller inside). However, as this battery is far from being cheap, I would like to be sure it will fit my needs.

Could you guys post some pictures of the controller case (inside) as well as a high res picture of the controller board? That would be very helpful :)
 
Hi all,i am really grateful to all discussion about our company products.
About the controller there have gap and water will flow into the controller,please do not worry about that,becasue there have full cover glue,it is waterproof.
Especially thank you to peter to share his shopping experiences from our company.

If someone have any problem or inquiry about our products,welcome to email me:sales11@bmsbattery.com,skype:suga suga

Merry Christmas.

Suga
From Bmsbattery
 
Hello Endless-sphere.
I am interested in getting a case 8 battery from BMS as the dimensions look suitable for my application.
One thing I don't know is how do you remove the battery? Does it slide out the top or does it lift up vertically or something else?

Thanks for reading.

batt.png
 
After reading this thread it persuaded me to give BMS battery another go. I had a terrible experience with them before but reading this post made me think they might have improved.

BMS BATTERY COMPANY IS A TERRIBLE COMPANY FOR SUPPORT AND SERVICE

I ordered one of these 20/10. They took my money very quickly then the status of the order stalled at the testing stage.
I had to bug them with support and messages three times to be told it was going to be shipped.
It took 2 weeks until testing was finished.
Then the status got set to shipped with DPD and a tracking number.
The tracking has just stuck on that DPD has received order information. It has been stuck on that for 2 weeks!

I have posted a load of messages to them and received nothing.
This is crazy what can I do next. I read here that people received the item in under a week!
This is the second time I have had issues with this company.
They are pants.
 
The BMS Battery Case-08 is made by ShanShan Plastic and is known as the Hailong 1 case. It is the same case being sold in the US as the Shark and is available from almost every kit seller in the US - at least those selling Bafang mid-drives. In my opinion it is the best looking case out there.

It is designed for 52 cells which means it maxes out at 13s4p at 48v. Some resellers are selling it with 56 cells as a 14s4p 52v battery. This is done by gluing all of the cells together without the plastic cell holders that come with the case. In my experience so far it seems to work fine but forget it if you ever need to replace one or more cells. They are all hot-glued together into a single mass.

As for the built-in controller as sold by BMS-battery, it is pretty sweet for low power builds. BMS battery specs it at 18 amps. At Interbike I spoke to an engineer at the company that designed it and he said it is designed for 5-8 amps depending on 36 or 48 volt usage. I told him I had run it at 18 amps and that it had easily put out 800 watts at 48 volts. He said if you run it like that it won't last very long. That said I have done a number of bikes using that battery/controller combo at 800w and they are all still working with more power than 90% of the pre-built ebikes out there. The company that makes the controller makes a square wave and sine wave version. BMS battery sells the sine wave version. It is quiet and smooth. Having the controller in the battery case makes for a really clean build. Also the streamlined waterproof connectors on all of the kit components are really clean as well.

As for mounting the battery it can sometimes be problematic as the mount holes in the plastic part of the mount are sometimes too far forward. If you have modest mechanical skills you can add rivnuts where you need them. Don't be scared to drill a hole in your frame it is not going to weaken it and is exactly what manufacturers do. Alternately, if you have a shark battery or one without the controller in it you can drill a hole in the metal part of the mount where your water bottle mount bolt is located. If you ride single track with your mountain bike you probably want a third bolt anyway. I have actually been riding single-track for a year now with a 52v shark mounted on the bottom of the down-tube with only 2 bolts, one of which is in the metal part.

Cannondale Prophet Shark BBSHD.jpg

I agree that other water bottle mount cases are more robust but this one is still my favorite for 48-52v 11-14ah packs because of the low profile and sheer good looks. As for robustness I have done a bunch of these and never had a problem although I have heard reports from a few people that have.

I have purchased a lot of these Hailong I batteries from a variety of vendors - mostly in the US but have also bought quite a few from BMS-Battery along with q100, q128c and q128h motors - I really like these lite-weight but zippy motors although I do most builds with Bafang mid-drives. I personally have never had a problem with BMS-Battery. Sometimes the orders come fast, sometimes slow but never more than 4 weeks. When it is slow they go through a litany of statuses including quality checks and testing. My guess is they are out of stock or building to order. Someone mentioned they were working with Suga. Suga Wu is awesome. She knows her stuff and has fair english skills. PM me if you want her email address.
 
mart_thorpe@hotmail.com said:
Hello Endless-sphere.
I am interested in getting a case 8 battery from BMS as the dimensions look suitable for my application.
One thing I don't know is how do you remove the battery? Does it slide out the top or does it lift up vertically or something else?

Thanks for reading.


The battery needs to slide forward about 1/2 inch and then needs to go up about 3/16ths in the front and 3/4 inch in the rear to clear the mount. In most triangles there is usually more room where the rear of the battery is mounted so you don't need much extra room in your triangle to get the battery on and off the bike.
 
Thanks Rydon for the information nice one. I like how you have mounted the battery below the frame thats a nice idea.
I just commute so the gear does not get too much punisment. Again thanks for the info. The battery now is showing as shipped from the courier a month after ordering.
 
@Rydon
You suggest drilling an extra hole. I am happy with this but do I need to tap/thread the hole in the frame also? Or is it enough to just force a bolt in there?
My frame is aluminium.

Don't be scared to drill a hole in your frame it is not going to weaken it and is exactly what manufacturers do.
 
You missed my comment about rivnuts. A rivnut is a threaded rivet that goes in the hole you drill in the frame. This is what most manufacturers use for bottle mounts. Zinc plated steel rivnuts are best for batteries as they are much stronger than aluminum and won't rip out with the extra weight. There are many youtube videos on how to install them without a tool if you don't want to buy one.

I actually ended up buying one of these. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/rivetnuttool.php It is not very expensive and is one of the best tools that allow you to get into tight spots inside bicycle triangles.

Here is a source for zinc plated steel rivnuts that is the cheapest I have found. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W8TW5W2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 These are the right size for aluminum bicycle frames with Grip Range: 0.5-3.0mm and fit standard m5 .8mm thread pitch water bottle bolts.
 
My sturdy shark pack mount. I wanted to avoid drilling the frame, not rely on tiny plastic battery mount tabs and allow for upside-down mount if needed. The velcro strap holds the pack to the steel bracket, hose clamps hold the bracket to bike frame. I think the hose clamps and velcro strap would support the pack hanging below the downtube no problem. If I run the pack upside down I will probably add a second velcro strap. It is nice and solid with very little side to side play when hose clamps are tight. Rubber insulators keep the steel bracket from scratching the paint. The steel bracket fits the frame tube contour nicely. Like many of my one-off hand made parts the bracket is imperfect and a bit messy. I am happy with the function of it despite the rough edges.
 

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