Buy AmpedBikes or Crystalyte
- Thread starter jrockstar
- Start date
HAL9000v2.0
10 kW
What is crystalyte 806? You mean 406?
I have a 407 and an amped bikes front and rear motor. The 407 is much faster that the front amped bikes motor. I haven't tried the rear motor yet, but it is supposed to be faster, maybe even faster than the 406. The black rear motor is fast from amped bikes, but they are going to slow it down for the next shipment, if you go that route be sure to ask which motor you are getting. I would recommend getting a crystalyte from ebikes.ca, or maybe a nine continents(the same as the ampedbikes, but better controller and includes a Cycle analyst, and only costs bit more.)
dnmun
1 PW
you mean they rebranded the nine continents hubmotor and called it the ampedbikes kit? i wish i could buy a gross of 100 motors from them to get them at the $53 jobber price/100 ct. plus it looks like it is a nice motor. i would second the deal from ebikes.ca especially since you get the CA.
dnmun
1 PW
i never found C'lyte on alibaba, but the nine continents had a 100ct minimum order, and i saw they were telling rafael over in italy that they would charge him $53, but air freight is a big deal for that kinda weight. it's all beyond me, too much to even consider something like a group purchase, and i thought the group buy of the headway cells and packs was a deal. good to see justin has decided to carry the nine continents, it will be good to see more threads on them.
recumbent
100 kW
nomad85 said:
Sounds like the motor doesn't have enough torque, if indeed they are slowing the top speed next shipments of the "nine continents motors. There's always a compromize with light weight motors, 80% of the weight IS the copper coils.
But $53 per motor if you scoop a 100 pcs, that's simply amazing.
turoczi
1 W
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- Jul 14, 2008
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I suggest the Amped kit. They are not having them wound slower, they are having them wound faster like the rear black ones. Danny at Amped is a straight up guy you should ask him your questions on their forum
The controller from ebikes.ca is a cheaper sensor less controller. A sensor less controller doesnt use the hall sensors so it has half of the components. Take offs are jumpy to say the least. The sensor less controllers are what Wilderness energy uses to keep costs down. A sensored controller is a smoother ride and in my opinion more efficient because it is similar to a stepper or servo motor and the controller knows where it is at all times. Im not a tech guy but thats my take on it.
Also read up on the amped forums they are doing some really interesting stuff. They are adding a USB programmable controller, an inframe battery box along with a cycle analyst type of handlebar mounted computer.
The controller from ebikes.ca is a cheaper sensor less controller. A sensor less controller doesnt use the hall sensors so it has half of the components. Take offs are jumpy to say the least. The sensor less controllers are what Wilderness energy uses to keep costs down. A sensored controller is a smoother ride and in my opinion more efficient because it is similar to a stepper or servo motor and the controller knows where it is at all times. Im not a tech guy but thats my take on it.
Also read up on the amped forums they are doing some really interesting stuff. They are adding a USB programmable controller, an inframe battery box along with a cycle analyst type of handlebar mounted computer.
An immediate start controller is good, but its also much more likely to fail. I have a crystalyle and an amped bikes controller(both immediate start) and the crystalyte seems to be of a much higher quality, the connectors are terrible with the amped bikes kit, I mentioned this to them and they said they are going to improve them, but the kit will cost 150$ more, that would make the e-bikes.ca kit cheaper. I bought 2 of them, and though they work I am not very impressed. Amped bikes said they are slowing down the rear motor for liability reasons, maybe that has changed though, wish it would have changed before I got my slow as molasses front motor... I have to put 60v through it to get past 25mph...
I wish... I have the recent shipments front motor. Its a 7x9 wind, the 9x7 wind is faster. The black rear motor I have is 9x7, but I haven't tested it yet. I heard they are changing it to 7x9 also. Liability is so lameturoczi said:
Is yours a front motor?
turoczi
1 W
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- Jul 14, 2008
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no they are changing all to 9*7 for increased speed. In the general forum.
I now have front and rear kit from them and just ordered 5 more to get dealer prices. My amped kit completely blows my buddy Genes crystalyte (407 I think or what ever the standard is) away at 36V, I have more torque and more speed. Are your batteries damaged?
Also you know there is a European speed jumper that will slow you down if they are connected?
I now have front and rear kit from them and just ordered 5 more to get dealer prices. My amped kit completely blows my buddy Genes crystalyte (407 I think or what ever the standard is) away at 36V, I have more torque and more speed. Are your batteries damaged?
Also you know there is a European speed jumper that will slow you down if they are connected?
I've used my 48v LiFePO4 on it and some SLA's, in both cases its way slower than my 407. I'm not really knocking the kits, as I said they work, I'm just miffed that I got such a slow motor when I thought it would be fast. If they are changing them all to 9x7 well then I am really pissed that I got stuck with this crappy thing. 
(I removed all the wires other than the motor/throttle and battery so I don't see how the euro speed control could be hurting me. and the sticker on the motor says 7x9... so I think its just slow.)
(I removed all the wires other than the motor/throttle and battery so I don't see how the euro speed control could be hurting me. and the sticker on the motor says 7x9... so I think its just slow.)
turoczi
1 W
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Dang that sucks! Yeah they were going back and forth about different windings and finally decided on the faster windings. Somewhere on the amped forums I read that the old speed controller is limiting rpm's. They have a new speed controller that is usb programmable so that at 48V or 60V you can set the actual speed. They are stating on the forums that the speed controller is universal with any kit, will be available seperately for about $45 and also included in their battery box.
I have been following their progression for over a year and have to say that they are very passionate about what they do. Which is very refreshing to see in a company rather than just give me your money like most companies.
I have been following their progression for over a year and have to say that they are very passionate about what they do. Which is very refreshing to see in a company rather than just give me your money like most companies.
I finally got my maxxis hookworms to fit in my frame so I swapped out the front motor for a rear motor, and its a whole lot better no spoke noise(although I did adjust them a lot before hand) and its not as tinny sounding. And most importantly its faster Now to find a use for this torque motor... anyone need a hill climber?
no spoke noise(although I did adjust them a lot before hand) and its not as tinny sounding. And most importantly its faster Now to find a use for this torque motor... anyone need a hill climber?Turn out I was right, ampedbikes is only selling the 7x9 high torque wind motor. Expect 21-23 mph @ 48v. Too slow for me, I'm glad I got one of the fast ones, its going very well so far. The controller wiring/connectors is awful, but I rewired mine after the connectors corroded away, used some dielectric grease on the new connections so it wont happen again. I am getting 29 mph @48v in the freezing cold with studded tires(with no headwind), looking forward to spring and summer
Almasi
100 W
turoczi said:
That's wrong, pedal first controller from Crystalyte/ Ebike.ca have the same number of parts compared with their immediate start controller brother...in fact you can convert a pedal first controller to immediate start by re-wiring the 1246 chip input!
Everything is smooth with my pedal first controller....only problem, you have to pedal first
But other than that, it tend to be more reliable because it doesn't use parts that are weak....like Hall sensor
Robin
methods
1 GW
Almasi said:Everything is smooth with my pedal first controller....only problem, you have to pedal first
Depends on what motor you are running and how well it plays with the 1246 chip. :wink:
I have a Nine Continent kit and the takeoff is horrible.
Chunky-funky-klunky. . .
After I got the hang of it I could take off 9 times out of 10 very smooth but that one time when I am trying to cross 8 lanes of traffic at rush hour is the one time it will stutter and sputter.
I have been considering converting over to the sensors.
Looks like I would have to remove 3 of the 6 feedback resistors (to break the path back to the fets)
Wire in the hall sensors to the empty pads
Pull up each hall line to the chip power with (??) ohm resistors
Tie in power and ground
I think normally there are some other dividers and capacitors in the mix from a schematic I remember seeing.
Have you ever converted a Pedal First to a Start Immediate?
If so, hook me up with some tips
-methods
Almasi
100 W
methods said:Almasi said:Everything is smooth with my pedal first controller....only problem, you have to pedal first
Depends on what motor you are running and how well it plays with the 1246 chip. :wink:
I have a Nine Continent kit and the takeoff is horrible.
Chunky-funky-klunky. . .
-methods
I use a Crystalyte 406 at 33V/66V setup with A123 at 20 Amp.(it only goes On above 10KM/H)
Robin
kazbluesky
10 W
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- Sep 17, 2008
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- 72
Almasi, I'm suprised you say that about the nine continents motor. I have one of those and it takes off rather smooth and swiftly at 36v and more even more so at 48v.
I'm not disagreeing with you about yours, I'm just kind of puzzled at the difference in performance between our two motors. My controller is the one that came with the Ampedbikes kit. It's a 22amp controller I'm told.
I'm not disagreeing with you about yours, I'm just kind of puzzled at the difference in performance between our two motors. My controller is the one that came with the Ampedbikes kit. It's a 22amp controller I'm told.
OneWayTraffic
100 W
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2008
- Messages
- 175
If one did have stuttering start problems with a sensorless controller, just how fast would one need to pedal up to before this isn't an issue? I'd assume that if you had a bike with a internal hub such as a Nexus you could always be able to get up to a fast walk in a few seconds?
dogman dan
1 PW
maybe something is slightly off on your stuttery controller? My aotema kit, from hightech bikes makes some vibrations when pulling hard, like a start uphill.
But all I need for a smooth start is to roll the wheel 1 inch forward as I ease on the throttle. By a foot of wheel roll, I am at full throttle and have never stalled in the intersection. I only drop down from high gear at an uphill intersection now. This controller can do a standing start, with no roll at all, but it will sometimes try to roll backwards if you do that. It will then roll back one magnet, and then take off forwards.
But all I need for a smooth start is to roll the wheel 1 inch forward as I ease on the throttle. By a foot of wheel roll, I am at full throttle and have never stalled in the intersection. I only drop down from high gear at an uphill intersection now. This controller can do a standing start, with no roll at all, but it will sometimes try to roll backwards if you do that. It will then roll back one magnet, and then take off forwards.
stevero2001
1 W
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2008
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- 53
Dogman,
I got the same hub as methods. I have the pedal start 20Amp 72v controller, and it seems to require at least 5mph to start, even though ebikes says it only needs 3Kph (1.8MPH). I had a similar problem with methods in riding down a hill in that when the coast speed exceeds the no load speed of the hub (around 31MPH), the controller kicks into a heavy regen mode (feels like a rough braking). Without some torque control, this could cause axle spinout. I didn't get a spinout, but I noticed my nuts did loosen slightly. I'm not convinced this is normal behaviour, and suspect the controller has some defect. Methods found that one of his phase wires was not making good contact. In my case, all the connectors look solid. I measured the resistance through the lines to the controller from phase to phase and measured 209 ohms. Nothing seemed unbalanced. I'm still waiting for Justin to get back to me with some testing. it appears that not everyone has this issue, but because the 2806 hub has such high torque, it would make sense that it would generate higher reverse current when coasting down a steep hill at high speed. My watts' up meter doesn't measure reverse current, so I don't know what the actual reverse current is. i might try wiring it up in reverse to see what it is just for testing purposes.
Steve
I got the same hub as methods. I have the pedal start 20Amp 72v controller, and it seems to require at least 5mph to start, even though ebikes says it only needs 3Kph (1.8MPH). I had a similar problem with methods in riding down a hill in that when the coast speed exceeds the no load speed of the hub (around 31MPH), the controller kicks into a heavy regen mode (feels like a rough braking). Without some torque control, this could cause axle spinout. I didn't get a spinout, but I noticed my nuts did loosen slightly. I'm not convinced this is normal behaviour, and suspect the controller has some defect. Methods found that one of his phase wires was not making good contact. In my case, all the connectors look solid. I measured the resistance through the lines to the controller from phase to phase and measured 209 ohms. Nothing seemed unbalanced. I'm still waiting for Justin to get back to me with some testing. it appears that not everyone has this issue, but because the 2806 hub has such high torque, it would make sense that it would generate higher reverse current when coasting down a steep hill at high speed. My watts' up meter doesn't measure reverse current, so I don't know what the actual reverse current is. i might try wiring it up in reverse to see what it is just for testing purposes.
Steve
stevero2001
1 W
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2008
- Messages
- 53
I also wanted to mention this is a Crystalyte controller, but Dogman has a different controller for his Aotema motor. I wonder if I could get the same controller Dogman is using. The hightechbikes site doesn't offer separate controllers. This Aotema controller sounds like it is much smoother. What is the max current on a hill climb? With my controller (un-modded) it starts out around 19A, but on a hill it limits the current to around 17A. It has the 4110 FETS, so I know I can bump it up to 30A, but I'm waiting to see if there may be a solution to my regen problem first.
Another thing I wanted to mention is, my nine continents seems a little noisy. It sounds almost like a geared hub to me, with a whine/hum sound. This is much louder than my BD36 (brushed hub), which was almost dead silent. Is this typical for brushless to make more noise? I didn't expect this to be so much louder. If I turn off the controller while coasting, the noise goes away, so I guess it is the cogging everyone is talking about. If a controller was not firing in perfect timing, would it be louder?
Another thing I wanted to mention is, my nine continents seems a little noisy. It sounds almost like a geared hub to me, with a whine/hum sound. This is much louder than my BD36 (brushed hub), which was almost dead silent. Is this typical for brushless to make more noise? I didn't expect this to be so much louder. If I turn off the controller while coasting, the noise goes away, so I guess it is the cogging everyone is talking about. If a controller was not firing in perfect timing, would it be louder?
