Lekkie Bling Ring HD

A few weeks ago, shortly after the imbroglio over my complaints/review of the Luna Eclipse chainwheel, I received a PM from EM3EV. Out of a spirit of friendly competition :wink: , he suggested that he send me a Lekkie BBSHD chainwheel to try out. The understanding was that I would try it out, give Paul private feedback before going public and if I liked it I could pay full retail for it saving the cost of postage from California eBike to my home in Los Angeles. If Luna Cycle had proposed the same offer regarding their chainwheel I would have agreed, too. However in that transaction I paid full price out front, also saving shipping since I received it in person at the Luna facility, and there was never any discussion of confidentiality or of giving private feedback.

I have had the Lekkie Bling Ring HD for a few days, long enough to give it an identical test to the one given to the Luna Eclipse chainwheel. I used an identical Bikes Direct Gravity Deadeye Monster, built to the recipe developed by Karl at Electric-Fatbike.com as a test bed. The only change from the previous test was using a 26t cog on the Nexus 3 hub instead of a 23t. Both cogs have identical offset and I felt that the difference in tooth count would not affect the chain derailment issues I had with the Luna Eclipse. Luna had very promptly refunded my money when I returned the Eclipse to them, so I cannot give a direct back-to-back test.

Essentially all there is to report is that the Lekkie Bling Ring HD ring worked perfectly. There is nothing to report beyond that: no chain issues, no derails at any time. I rode the exact same route as in the Luna Eclipse test and had no problem at all. This was not the case with the Luna as a reading of my previous thread will show.

The Luna Eclipse needed a couple of AN washers as shims to clear the chainstay, the Lekkie bolted right on and both gave a nearly identical chainline. If anything the Luna had a slightly better chainline since it was about 1/16" closer to the chainstay than the Lekkie Bling Ring HD, both had adequate clearance.

Both chainwheels had the same 42t count and the only functional difference visible between the two products are the longer teeth on the Eclipse which are very much longer than those of the Bling Ring HD. I know this because I was able to hold a 42t Bling Ring for BBS02 up against the Luna Eclipse while at Luna and the difference was obvious. The Bling Ring HD uses identical teeth to the one Lekkie make for the BBS02 and those have been proven to be effective in the past when there are misalignment issues.

Finally, should anyone think that I am biased against or that I have it in for Luna Cycle, please be advised that I spent the two weeks before Christmas working at Luna as a temporary employee. I had done business with Eric recently and was very impressed with his business model and wanted to learn more, I also wanted to learn a bit more about the eBike business in general. When I read that he needed help with shipping and warehousing I offered my help. In exchange for $17.50/hr I would help Luna from 11am until the early evening and would have the opportunity to buy Luna Products at employee discount. At the end of the temp job, I wound up giving Luna $400 of my own cash in addition to all my earnings in exchange for a BBSHD, a Luna Shark battery pack and other bicycle parts. I also have an arrangement to have the Bafang BBSHD tested by a leading eBike magazine, something that can only benefit the worlds largest seller of BBSHD drives: Luna Cycle. While Eric was not happy about my post about my unvarnished experiences with his product, we parted amicably and I bear him and his company no ill will. Quite the contrary, I continue to purchase from him to this day.......

I have a number of photos of the new Lekkie Bling Ring HD on my phone and I will link or post them later today. I seem to have trouble getting my pictures to reliably appear in the body of my posts as opposed to just showing a clickable link, so I hope I can get them to appear this time.

I was looking over my post for spelling and grammar this morning and I realized I never said anything about what the Bling Ring HD actually looked like!

It's a one piece sculpted spiderweb of alloy. Not a bit of extra material anywhere, light and strong. The part seems to be much more of a production part as opposed to the prototype look of the Luna Eclipse. The edges are all broken (burrs and sharp corners removed) and there is a smooth consistant finish with a uniform surface and deep anodizing. The inlaid white writing in the Lakkie part is crisp and clear with no smudges or flaws.

I spent many years as a Quality Control inspector and visually this is among the best made pieces I have seen. Functionally it was flawless in my case, too. The quality of workmanship and the amount of time that must have gone into the production of the Lekkie HD chainwheel makes me wonder how It can be sold at such a low price point.

A shame there's no photos to show both builds. The install is important to any review and with no pictures it's just word of mouth. I'd like to see a comparison before mine get here. They both look great. Andihavegoodreports on both

How much offset does it have compared to the stock chain wheel? The Eclipse had too much offset for for my application. I've got a great chain line with the stock one but I need fewer teeth and some narrow wide action.

I did not have the two parts in hand to do a side-by-side comparison. Given that the chainline ended up in the the same place after shimming the Eclipse with a couple of washers, I would guess that the Lekkie has about 3/32" less offset. It bolted on w/o shims.

Michael I found only .8mm difference in the offset between the Lekkie and the Eclipse and I measured the offset of the two rings with calipers.

My review of the Lekkie is here

http://electric-fatbike.com/2016/01/17/lekkie-bbshd-bling-ring-42-teeth-of-power-160-grams-95-clam/

You are not being entirely honest in this article because what happened that bent the eclipse ring is not mentioned here. From what I understand you were using a single speed without a chain tensioner and the chain came off and you tried to replace it and bent the teeth or the ring. If you are using an aluminum chainring with this much offset then you need to use a chain tensioner OR you need to loosen up the rear wheel to reseat the chain. You did neither. Even if the chain ring was steel you would have bent it or broken the teeth likely trying to put the chain back on with a chainring with this much offset. If you wrap the chain around the front ring and turn the cranks the chain simply cannot stretch to go around the chainring. Something has to give.

It's not fair of you to badmouth Eric and his chainring online without talking to him first which you didn't do. Frankly I'm somewhat appalled at your behavior especially since you were working for him at the time.

If someone did that to me I would not be as kind to them as Eric has been to you. The ebike community is small and word gets around. If you have issue with a product I suggest you learn to take it up with the vendor BEFORE you start talking smack online. That is generally considered the polite course of action.

Karl

Karl
I have read your reviews and have followed your website closely. It has been a wealth of information for me and I thank you very much. But I must say that I disagree with spacing the chain wheel to a degree where the center locating hub is no longer locating the chain wheel. Without that hub engaged a greater load will be put on the fasteners than if it were engaged. Additionally, stainless fasteners are less than half as strong as their steel counterparts. It's a double whammy of reduction in strength. So, will the fasteners break? I truly hope not and only time will tell. Has the system suffered a reduction in strength? Yes. As I make modifications to my bike I am trying to use good engineering practice. I will try to increase strength and durability where needed and only reduce strength if it is quantifiable and offers some other benefit. The best solution, in my opinion, is if the Eclipse had several different offsets to choose from. Only the center section would need to be different. The current max offset center section actually requires the most machining and material. To be clear, I have been all over your site and love what your doing. This is the only thing we don't see eye to eye on. Thanks for all your hard work and know that your site played a huge role in my new found passion for E-bikes!
Pete

WoodlandHills said:

I did not have the two parts in hand to do a side-by-side comparison. Given that the chainline ended up in the the same place after shimming the Eclipse with a couple of washers, I would guess that the Lekkie has about 3/32" less offset. It bolted on w/o shims.

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Disingenuous is the polite word here.

Dogboy1200 said:

Karl
Additionally, stainless fasteners are less than half as strong as their steel counterparts.

Click to expand...

Hi Pete, good comments! I do think that this line is often overused. Perhaps in this situation as well. Half of what? If the spec for the steel version is many times more then needed, perhaps half is enough? I found this working on my Vespa. Someone was quick to point out the change to stainless parts would degrade the potential performance. After due diligence and much searching I discovered that yes, very true but that the grade 8 standard used was a massive overkill in the application and half was 3 times more than needed. I think there are tremendous stresses in your discussion but just how massive and are we comparing specifications to the usage or repeating commonly heard quips?

Thanks for the comments and great discussion!

What a strange post, I was following your lead, Karl, in my installation. Just like on your site, I was using a Nexus 3 hub. Just like on your site, I was not using a chain tensioner. I have looked very closely at the bikes you have built there: they are all great and none of them have a chain tensioner. There are lots of stories lately about IGHs, lot of pictures and text and none show or describe chain tensioners.

You review of the Luna Eclopse mentioned nothing about a chain tensioner being mandatory with the Eclipse. It did not even mention the extreme chain tension you suggested be used earlier in this thread when I first brought this issue up. Why the sudden change in view?

As far as contacting Eric Hicks at Luna before posting, why should I do that? This is an open forum that exists to share knowledge and to learn from. Which is just what happened, I shared my experience and I learned from the responses to the post. This is how it is SUPPOSED to work.

As far as my temporary employment at Luna creating an obligation, I disagree. This was a transactional relationship: Luna had a need for labor and I needed eBike parts, we both got what we wanted and that was that. How much loyalty do you expect from a temp worker? It was not like I had a career there was it? And it is not like Mr. Hicks and I were friends either: he was the boss and I was the worker. When I spoke to Mr Hicks about my problems with the Eclipse he asked why I did not call him on the weekend and I replied: "because you never gave me a contact phone number for you or for Luna and the number on the website belongs to Mark, another employee. Even if I wanted to, I could not have contacted you over the weekend, but you did have my number. Why didnt you call me instead?"

I paid full price for the Luna Eclipse, there was NO employee discount given. In fact I pre-ordered and paid for this part before I ever began working there. When Eric Hicks handed it to me there was nothing said about keeping quiet about any problems, nothing said about my being a beta tester, nothing said about feedback about the product at all. He is no dummy: if he wanted to restrict my comments or have me give private feedback, he could have asked me and I could have said yes or no. But he did not.

Finally, if you go back and read the first few posts, you will see that I did not mention the name of the vendor until after I had spoken to them directly. I was asked to identify, but I refused. The first person who identified Luna and their Eclipse chainwheel was you, so if anyone screwed up and violated "eBike etiquette" it was you, not me. Is this why you are taking this up now, guilt at outing Luna unnecessarily? After all I didn't mention them until you did and I can see you feel bad about it, but attacking me won't help matters. In fact it may make things worse: now there two posts about someone having problems with a Luna Eclipse instead of one and instead of sinking away in the threads it is back up top......

WoodlandHills said:

.... attacking me won't help.

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No attacks, that I read, just a frank discussion of views and reactions to posts. No reason for us to read into criticisms and take them as personal affronts. I too think there is more to the story. And pictures really help settle these discussions. That and an occasional QFT help keep things on the level.

I appreciated the comments and will be more mindful as my first of two builds begins. I've learned one thing over the past month especially. Being a world class qualified engineer does not automatically make a talented bike mechanic. Even some very talented PTW mechanics have made n00b mistakes. I suggest the brilliant among us try not to become experts to quickly. I can be humbling.

While I was a leader in my field I never stopped listening to the new kids. Fresh eyes have a lot to learn from, but zero to expert in a single build is nearly laughable. Sorry, rant over, and NOT pointed at you. Just a tangent and a recent awareness.

tomjasz said:

Dogboy1200 said:

Karl
Additionally, stainless fasteners are less than half as strong as their steel counterparts.

Click to expand...

Hi Pete, good comments! I do think that this line is often overused. Perhaps in this situation as well. Half of what? If the spec for the steel version is many times more then needed, perhaps half is enough? I found this working on my Vespa. Someone was quick to point out the change to stainless parts would degrade the potential performance. After due diligence and much searching I discovered that yes, very true but that the grade 8 standard used was a massive overkill in the application and half was 3 times more than needed. I think there are tremendous stresses in your discussion but just how massive and are we comparing specifications to the usage or repeating commonly heard quips?

Thanks for the comments and great discussion!

Click to expand...

Agreed. It is entirely possible that the number and type of fasteners is grossly over strength and that the lack of hub engagement and use of reduced strength fasteners will still be able to withstand any loads the system may see. But how would we know this? There are 2 ways I can quickly think of, calculations and empirical data. It would seem the empirical data is being compiled now. As I stated previously I am open to reduction in strength as long as the effect is quantifiable and has benefit.