Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

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anoNY42
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Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 22, 2017 6:48 pm

Got my 52v 11.4 AH battery today.

Packaging was good, nice sturdy cardboard box, and lots of bubble wrap. I got luckier than the other guy who recently had his battery damaged in transit. MIni charger was packed in a separate box with foam. Mine also has the correct XT60s on the charger (male) and included an extra XT60 (loose), the XT60-Barrel Plug adapter, and a XT60 female-female adapter.

And yes, my child is not wearing any pants in those pics. Don't judge! ;)
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Tom L
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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by Tom L » Mar 23, 2017 7:47 am

Hmm. That still looks like poor packing to me. Especially at one of the corners.

Contents of that weight should be double boxed in properly sized boxes.

Was it shipped with the appropriate DG (dangerous goods) classification?

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 23, 2017 7:59 am

Tom L wrote:Hmm. That still looks like poor packing to me. Especially at one of the corners.

Contents of that weight should be double boxed in properly sized boxes.

Was it shipped with the appropriate DG (dangerous goods) classification?
I admit I have no idea what the proper packaging would be. This was shipped as a Hazmat.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by Tom L » Mar 23, 2017 8:26 am

http://www.cad.gov.hk/sc/pdf/965-970.pdf

Lithium ion cells and batteries must be placed in inner packagings that completely enclose the cell or
battery then placed in an outer packaging. The completed package for the cells or batteries must meet
the Packing Group II performance requirements.

http://www.berlindangerousgoods.com/en/ ... ing-groups

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 23, 2017 8:51 am

Tom L wrote:http://www.cad.gov.hk/sc/pdf/965-970.pdf

Lithium ion cells and batteries must be placed in inner packagings that completely enclose the cell or
battery then placed in an outer packaging. The completed package for the cells or batteries must meet
the Packing Group II performance requirements.

http://www.berlindangerousgoods.com/en/ ... ing-groups
Are these packing requirements for aircraft? The PDF seems to focus on air shipping. Mine were ground shipped CA to FL.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by 2old » Mar 23, 2017 1:23 pm

1) AFAIK, that size Lithium battery can't be shipped by air.
2) My Luna battery was so well packaged (to travel <50 miles) that I'm using part of the material to protect it in the triangle bag for pretty severe off road riding.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 25, 2017 2:13 pm

First ride: (52V 11.5AH Pansonic PF cells in a shark case)

- 8 miles (testing my commute to work) of flat terrain with several stop signs
- Charged to 100% as per battery break-in instructions
- 11 amp rated controller with a 22 amp max
- Start voltage = 58.6V
- End voltage = 53.69V
- 156Wh and 2.52 AH used on the gauge
- I saw sag down to 50.75V on WOT on 7th mile.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 25, 2017 2:31 pm

If there is any way that you could "get away with" charging your battery pack to 90% (4.1V per cell), then I firmly believe that this charging protocol will double the life of your battery pack...

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 25, 2017 4:21 pm

spinningmagnets wrote:If there is any way that you could "get away with" charging your battery pack to 90% (4.1V per cell), then I firmly believe that this charging protocol will double the life of your battery pack...
Oh I certainly will be doing that (actually using only 80%), since I charge at work as well. I only charged to 100% since that is what Luna's instructions said to do for the first few rides.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 26, 2017 5:15 am

eTrike wrote:I hope this works well for you. Thanks for the ride data. A few questions please: Do you plan to do a full capacity test? Is that ~3V sag on 22A? Which motor? Total cost? Care to review charger?
1.) I don't plan on running it all the way down, sorry. My bike really isn't comfortable enough for me to want to spends several hours on it at one time, lol.

2.) The meter said 20 to 21 amps while I was accelerating, not sure if the meter is off by a bit or if the controller doesn't actually get up to 22 amps.

3.) As to which motor, that is a great question. I bought a cheap kit from Dillinger two years ago, and I have no idea what motor it is. There is no identification on the outside of the motor, and I have never opened it up.

4.) The charger is the nicest piece of ebike equipment I have ever seen. That said, I caution you that my only experience is with a cheap chinese kit bought two years ago. My previous charger was just a black box that didn't have any settings I could change. The Luna mini charger has 80%, 90% and 100% settings, which I have not yet tested. Also, it has a fan, and while charging my battery initially for 9 hours (as per instructions), the charger never got more than luke-warm on the outside (my old 2A cheap charger used to get very hot)

Edit: total cost was $520 for battery, charger, and shipping.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by Hillhater » Mar 29, 2017 1:24 am

.....its hard to believe a $500 hazardous product doesnt have custom shipping packaging.
And also, ..what motivates someone to post a review of a battery order and delivery. ?
its not as if its particularly comprehensive.. no delivery time, capacity tests, or price brake down, ( total cost added as an Edit ?)
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 29, 2017 5:03 am

Hillhater wrote:.....its hard to believe a $500 hazardous product doesnt have custom shipping packaging.
And also, ..what motivates someone to post a review of a battery order and delivery. ?
its not as if its particularly comprehensive.. no delivery time, capacity tests, or price brake down, ( total cost added as an Edit ?)
I posted my "battery order and delivery" review because I was very interested in the previous Luna thread with the damaged battery and I wanted to provide more data for folks who were on that thread. I created my own thread since a.) the other thread had turned poisonous, and b.) this was my own experience and I did not want to hijack the other guy's thread.

My motivation is the same as anyone else's who is posting in the reviews and testing forum, it is to add data to the data already out there.

As to your other concerns:
1.) Delivery took about a week from CA to FL. It looks like the order spent a few days in the warehouse before being given to UPS.
2.) As I said before, I will not be running this battery down to empty, so a true capacity test is out.
3.) Price breakdown is as follows: Battery $435, Charger $55, Shipping $30
4.) More comprehensiveness: Since my commute is only a bit above 8 miles, and my controller is only 20 amps max, I should not be stressing this battery out much. I bought this as a commute vehicle, not a test bed. That said, if I have any issues you can be assured I will post them.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by Ykick » Mar 29, 2017 9:18 am

I personally picked up my Luna 52V 13.5Ah GA cell Shark battery pack from LA on my way through town last week so I didn’t require any shipping.

After about 5 shallow charge cycles to bring it into balance the Advanced charger terminates around 58.7V and the pack settles down to around 58.4V resting after a few hours.

By that point I was comfortable the pack is/was conditioned-balanced and then used it for a 15 mile fat bike ride.

I don’t have an onboard power meter on that bike but there was no hint of low SOC after riding that distance. However, I did use a power meter between the charger-battery and it needed about 9.7Ah to recharge to the full SOC voltage.

I’ve got no complaint about that capacity. Someday I will do a more accurate load test and check full cutoff capacity but based on my experience so far, this pack would appear to be able to deliver very close to labelled capacity.
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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by DRMousseau » Mar 29, 2017 10:13 am

Nice to see something positive. Seems ya always see complaints and few of those good ones. While I understand the loud vocal complaints of poorness,... those who have nothing to complain of are far too quiet.

I ordered my 52V 11.5ah Panasonic PF bare pack about a year and half ago or more. Priced much the same. It too arrived in about a week and was, IMO, well packaged in VERY sturdy box, jus like yours, and included the same charger and connectors in a box of its own with it all. I built a simple battery bracket to replace my bottle bracket and velcro strap in that openly with some light cardboard wrap, while slipped into a light nylon bag to prevent handling damage mostly and facilitate ease of removal to charge and carry with me.

A BIG cheap 29" aluminum framed beach cruiser modded with disks
Leaf 1500W w/40A controller
yes, it'll quickly hit 40mph at nearly 2000w from a standing start. Shocking and yet fascinating to most motorists,... I stay outa the way as any bicycle should. On flat open pavement, a balls out ride will get me about 10+mi in jus over 15min on full charge of 58.7V,... that's a couple fast trips to the local corner store and back and much easier and quicker than messin' with the car. Speed limit is 45mph anyway. Now longer trips into and about town,... I'm FAR more conservative and easily see 20mi on a full battery charge. I'm an old man and don't have much effort to contribute at all. Only once did I run it down to cutoff,.. thankfully I was jus a mile or two from home. Seldom see it excessively warm unless I'm beatin' heck on it. It's a big heavy bike to pedal. So I know my limits, and my battery limits and I stay within it all quite satisfied.

My first e-bike build, could of made some different choices, but current happy enough to now begin a full custom build with the same power and motor components, since I'm quite satisfied with both.

No complaints from Leaf nor Luna,... even when my Luna charger suddenly failed a couple months later. I quickly fired an email (not wanting to call as I know some businesses are pretty busy for calls),... and got an immediate response. Very encouraging! I had to ship it back before I got a replacement,... typical and expected. So I ordered a small "backup" charger from them, and received it within the week, again well packed and inside a fancy "Luna" cigar box, cute. Think it took a couple weeks before my better Luna charger was replaced, it arrived well packed too. Every email was dealt with promptness and professionalism. I understand that sometimes problems occur and was willing to give them every chance to prove to me, I made the right choice in selecting Luna products, and they did so with no extra prompting.

All considered,... Luna gets 5-stars from me. Service, product, ordering and shipping promptness,... I couldn't be more satisfied except for price point maybe. But you generally get what you pay for,... and while I could have made less costly choices, in the long run I'm sure I would of paid more. Heck, I coulda got stuck with a useless charger AND the expence of replacement, from a company that only wants your money!!! I feel Luna wants your continued business AND the business of your friends,... building a respected and growing business seems important to them. And it's important to me too.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Mar 29, 2017 10:42 am

DRMousseau wrote:Leaf 1500W w/40A controller...yes, it'll quickly hit 40mph at nearly 2000w from a standing start.
Gah, I need a new motor and controller. I bet I would have a lot more fun...

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by DRMousseau » Mar 30, 2017 12:55 am

Well, it is nice to have a little fun,... but a LOT of fun jus invites trouble. I'm betting "more fun" is why you chose a 52V battery. My new build is a 24" class with same motor and battery,... less speed maybe, but I should get to speed with a tiny bit more briskness. And as I said,... my typical speed is far more often under 20. And in some places (like Florida), it's best keep a low profile speed wise. Besides, 40 is jus bit unnerving on ANY bicycle!

My last TWO trips into town here (about 4.5mi round trip), has left me with my Luna 52V now resting at 53.9V for the total of about 9mi. Mostly easy 20mph speed with an occasional blast. I'm sure I could complete another VERY conservative run, but it would be under 20 with no fun at all, for my typical total avg. of about 13-14mi or so per charge.

BTW,... my highest top speed on bicycle EVER, was 46MPH!!! It was not powered or assisted by anything more than Hurricane Ivan's approach, and it was strange and kinda scary seeing 50mph cars passing me so slowly.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 30, 2017 1:05 am

I am more than happy to tool around town between 15-30 MPH all day, but...if a car tries to kill you? I guarantee that you will be glad that you are on an ebike that can do 40-MPH in an instant...

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by DRMousseau » Mar 30, 2017 9:32 pm

spinningmagnets wrote:I am more than happy to tool around town between 15-30 MPH all day, but...if a car tries to kill you? I guarantee that you will be glad that you are on an ebike that can do 40-MPH in an instant...
YES!!!! EXACTLY!!!!
It's the ability to stay outa the way, that's important, and to do so safely, quickly and easily whenever needed. It's the biggest reason for my specific choices. Of course a little fun was an added benefit discovered later, as was the surprising top speed. My choice of a 52V Luna pack, was somewhat incidental after I jus happened to find them available at Lunacycle, and it was selected purely for compact size, weight and for attaining maximum power from my Leaf motor/controller choice, IF, and when needed. I've always enjoyed bicycles, but increasing age can bring issues of "your not a kid anymore"!!! An assisted bicycle has answered those issues, and has greatly enhanced and extended my lifetime enjoyments,.... and fun!

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by Ykick » Mar 31, 2017 8:03 am

DRMousseau wrote:
spinningmagnets wrote:I am more than happy to tool around town between 15-30 MPH all day, but...if a car tries to kill you? I guarantee that you will be glad that you are on an ebike that can do 40-MPH in an instant...
YES!!!! EXACTLY!!!!
It's the ability to stay outa the way, that's important, and to do so safely, quickly and easily whenever needed. It's the biggest reason for my specific choices. Of course a little fun was an added benefit discovered later, as was the surprising top speed. My choice of a 52V Luna pack, was somewhat incidental after I jus happened to find them available at Lunacycle, and it was selected purely for compact size, weight and for attaining maximum power from my Leaf motor/controller choice, IF, and when needed. I've always enjoyed bicycles, but increasing age can bring issues of "your not a kid anymore"!!! An assisted bicycle has answered those issues, and has greatly enhanced and extended my lifetime enjoyments,.... and fun!
Yes, always important to “stay out of the way” especially you’re platform is severely overmatched in regard to size/weight.

But relying on more motor power for safety is fool’s gold, IMO.

MENTAL POWER is what you want/need. Learn about and practice PROVEN defensive riding/driving techniques from legit resources such as MSF (motorcycle safety foundation) or similar and you may likely never find yourself in these difficult situations.... https://www.msf-usa.org/

Thing about relying on power/speed as an “aid” is that you’ll NEVER have enough for every situation and relying on something which only “might” help isn’t nearly as effective as relying on SEE and other proven techniques which allow even slow moving yet nimble vehicles (or pedestrians) time to “get out of the way” before something dangerous occurs.

One of our biggest assets is the ability to see/hear well from practically every direction. We're also a small profile so it's much easier than larger vehicles to avoid things that present a dangerous situation.

But don’t listen to someone with +300k safe miles moto street experience and years of daily riding/commuting in both NYC and So CA….
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by Alan B » Mar 31, 2017 9:17 am

I've always thought that a rocket powered ejection seat with parachute would be useful for getting out of trouble, but what do you do when in a tunnel, and how do you avoid trees, wires and landing in worse danger?

If speed/power was the answer, then fast motorcycles would never be involved in accidents.

But we digress (a kinder word for we're getting off-topic). Back on topic..

I have purchased a number of items from Luna (as well as most every major vendor in this market). Luna also shipped me one kit for review (for which I've ordered a bike to test it on). In all these cases the product was well packaged and arrived in reasonable time. In one case the wrong item was shipped, it turned out that the manufacturer marking on the box didn't match the item in the box. In this case the problem was resolved in a reasonable time. All the items are still working, including batteries, motor and chargers, though I'm not using them every day.

I submitted one review article I wrote on a bbshd kit I installed on a mountain bike, and the article was accepted and published on their electric bike website. They provided no input for the article and published it as-written. They "paid" for the article with a modest store credit that was used to reduce the price of a second battery for the bike.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by DRMousseau » Mar 31, 2017 9:15 pm

Ykick wrote:Yes, always important to “stay out of the way” especially you’re platform is severely overmatched in regard to size/weight.

But relying on more motor power for safety is fool’s gold, IMO.

MENTAL POWER is what you want/need. Learn about and practice PROVEN defensive riding/driving techniques from legit resources such as MSF (motorcycle safety foundation) or similar and you may likely never find yourself in these difficult situations.... https://www.msf-usa.org/

Thing about relying on power/speed as an “aid” is that you’ll NEVER have enough for every situation and relying on something which only “might” help isn’t nearly as effective as relying on SEE and other proven techniques which allow even slow moving yet nimble vehicles (or pedestrians) time to “get out of the way” before something dangerous occurs.

One of our biggest assets is the ability to see/hear well from practically every direction. We're also a small profile so it's much easier than larger vehicles to avoid things that present a dangerous situation.

But don’t listen to someone with +300k safe miles moto street experience and years of daily riding/commuting in both NYC and So CA….
LoL! 40+yrs with a cycle endorsement and even greater bicycle experience (oh, and 4 stitches), has shown I can only "rely" on my skills, awareness, and abilities to SAFELY use the resources available to me,... regardless of size, power, speed or profile. While nice to have a bit extra,... like good brakes, it's truly nothing to rely on.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by anoNY42 » Feb 09, 2018 6:46 am

3000 mile update: Still going strong almost one year later. I usually charge to 80% and discharge to around 50% on my 8 mile commute. No noticeable changes in performance or capacity (as measured by the cheap voltage bar display).

There is a warranty sticker on the pack that will break if you open the pack, and I have noticed that the sticker has disintegrated over time (due to rain) even though I have not opened the pack. This would be an issue if I had a warranty claim.

I'm in Florida, so this pack has seen plenty of heat, rain and puddles.

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Re: Another (more satisfactory) Luna Cycle experience

Post by 2old » Feb 09, 2018 9:40 am

Good to hear; I've got two+ years on my Luna 52V, 10 a-h battery, and it's used for my BBS02, my wife's BBS02 and a 48V, 1000w YES kit. Probably not the best idea, but I always charge to 100% (58.8V the last time I checked).

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