Here Comes the Sondors Fold

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SlowCo   10 kW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by SlowCo » Mar 12 2018 11:26am

Good to see that after several years Theodore is still modifying, upgrading and enjoying his Sondor bikes and that Chalo still expresses his pet hate for them... :lol:

I like the Sondors bikes for what they are. Keep going and enjoying them!

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Chalo » Mar 12 2018 12:16pm

Theodore Voltaire wrote:
Mar 12 2018 9:11am
Chalo wrote:
Mar 12 2018 12:12am
Because who would want to pedal that bike?
I pedal about 90% of the time.
You say so, but your seat height says "not really". Unless you're well under 5 feet tall?

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Theodore Voltaire   1 MW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 12 2018 7:10pm

I'm honored, it's not often we get to see a Chalo build. :)

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 15 2018 6:25pm

It's Scrappy Doo

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rumme   100 kW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by rumme » Mar 18 2018 5:04am

Sondors needs to enter the MID DRIVE ebike market.. and produce a ebike under $2000 with ability to do 30 mph { have a off road switch, to get by any legalities} , make it look sleek and provide 48-52 volt- 20 AH battery options. The mid drive ebike market is DYING to have a fairly priced solid performing ebike enter the mix. Sondors cornered the market initially with the hub motor options priced fairly , now he needs to hit the mid drive market. The Bosch and Yamaha setups are way to overpriced IMHO.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Mar 18 2018 6:33am

rumme wrote:
Mar 18 2018 5:04am
Sondors needs to enter the MID DRIVE ebike market.. and produce a ebike under $2000 with ability to do 30 mph { have a off road switch, to get by any legalities} , make it look sleek and provide 48-52 volt- 20 AH battery options. The mid drive ebike market is DYING to have a fairly priced solid performing ebike enter the mix. Sondors cornered the market initially with the hub motor options priced fairly , now he needs to hit the mid drive market. The Bosch and Yamaha setups are way to overpriced IMHO.
something like this maybe.. :

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https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1364120
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Theodore Voltaire   1 MW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 18 2018 8:01am

Mid drive is an evolutionary dead end for bicycles, and this is why. 10 thousand miles, and zero driveline maintenance.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 18 2018 8:07am

I've gotten rid of several ebikes over the years. I currently have a mid-drive and a hubmotor ebike. I plan to keep both. To each his own?

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by markz » Mar 18 2018 5:35pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Mar 18 2018 8:07am
I've gotten rid of several ebikes over the years. I currently have a mid-drive and a hubmotor ebike. I plan to keep both. To each his own?
Which mid drive do you have and how do you like it compared to hub.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 18 2018 5:46pm

I have a BBSHD on a stretch cruiser, which provides a very comfortable riding posture. It runs very quietly and the motor is small enough that it doesn't grab much attention. It's only running about 1500W, and it easily cruises at 30-MPH. There aren't many hills around here, but when I encounter one I simply downshift to keep the motor RPMs up, and it has never overheated.

The hubmotor is an Edge with 35mm stator in a downhill frame. Its only running about 2600W, but it impresses anyone that I let test-ride it. Quiet and powerful. I have a dozen things I am working on, but I'd like to bump it up to the 70A that the battery can provide for 52V X 70A = 3600W. It is also quiet and the simplicity is a definite bonus, but...it really draws attention where-ever it goes...

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by rumme » Mar 19 2018 8:01pm

Ive never owned a mid drive...but have owned/ built 5 hub motors. My current ebike is a stealth bomber knockoff, running 72 volt- 28 AH battery , 3000 watt hub with ferro fluid , LYEN controller in unsensored mode , tubeless motorcycle tires , hydraulic brakes, full adjustable suspension, etc. Ive got under $4000 in it and it can do 50+ MPH if I program the controller for that speed. I dont need that speed, so I have ti setup for around 40 mph, with around 80-100 NMS of torque. This is by far my favorite ebike iver ever owned, but I still would be willing to purchase a FAIRLY PRICED { NO BOSCH OR YAMAHA OVERPRICED SYSTEMS} mid drive . Im talking around $2000 or less , with a 48 volt-20 AH battery , in a frame that looks sleek , and a power system that can do 30 mph top speed with a 200 lb rider along with it being able to handle hilly roads and some light/medium trails. Hopefully Sondors will tackle this sector of ebikes. Heres a photo of my current ebike.
ebike2.jpg

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by markz » Mar 19 2018 8:42pm

All I know first hand is the Cyclone 4kw is noisy.
Others say the BBSHD is quieter, with nylon gears and build quality is better.

For the riding I do, I like my mxus 3kw, but the mxus 5kw is just that much better I believe. I will put the 5kw in a fs with 165mm rear dropouts.

From a stand still on a steep hill, mid drives rule. But that might change with the 5kw.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by rumme » Mar 19 2018 10:48pm

markz wrote:
Mar 19 2018 8:42pm
All I know first hand is the Cyclone 4kw is noisy.
Others say the BBSHD is quieter, with nylon gears and build quality is better.

For the riding I do, I like my mxus 3kw, but the mxus 5kw is just that much better I believe. I will put the 5kw in a fs with 165mm rear dropouts.

From a stand still on a steep hill, mid drives rule. But that might change with the 5kw.
My motor is rated at 3kw...but with added ferro fluid, I can push it to 70 amps at 70 volts to get near 5kw...and it handles that fine. One advantage of this is you get to stay with the lighter weight 3kw hub motor instead of the heavier 5kw hubmotor. I really dont need any more then 5kw of power...and usually stay around 2kw for most riding. I imagine if you add ferro fluid and proper heat sinks to a 3kw motor, it can handle 5-7 kw bursts of 20 seconds or less.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 20 2018 9:45am

Powerful eBikes are fun to ride, and economical ridden as commuter bikes, but they're more like motorcycles than bicycles, and the two don't mix very well. That's why I have more than one. You need the right tool for the right job.

In Dallas where I ride, the ratio of bicycles to eBikes is like a 1000 to 1. All the fun bicycle riding, and events happen in the downtown urban area, about 20 miles from my house in the burbs. That kind of riding is just for fun, and I like the exercise I get from it. But you can't get any respect if you show up riding what everyone considers a motorcycle. That's why I like having a bike in my arsenal that blurs the line between bicycle, and motorcycle.

Riders 1/3 my age, that might otherwise be inclined to look down on eBikes, aren't so self assured when they find out I actually rode my unintimidating little eBike 20 miles to get there, and I'll be riding it back home too. In the few short years I've been doing it, I've noticed that attitudes about eBikes in general are changing for the better, and acceptance is increasing rapidly. If I always showed up on my Stealth I think the opposite would probably be happening.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by markz » Mar 20 2018 2:30pm

Heatsinks and FF is a viable option for the 3kw motor and will judge it all when I get my spokes in and lace it to 16" x 1.60 Shinko from 26" Crystalyte rim then adjust voltage for the speed I like.
rumme wrote:
Mar 19 2018 10:48pm

markz wrote:
Mar 19 2018 8:42pm
All I know first hand is the Cyclone 4kw is noisy.
Others say the BBSHD is quieter, with nylon gears and build quality is better.

For the riding I do, I like my mxus 3kw, but the mxus 5kw is just that much better I believe. I will put the 5kw in a fs with 165mm rear dropouts.

From a stand still on a steep hill, mid drives rule. But that might change with the 5kw.
My motor is rated at 3kw...but with added ferro fluid, I can push it to 70 amps at 70 volts to get near 5kw...and it handles that fine. One advantage of this is you get to stay with the lighter weight 3kw hub motor instead of the heavier 5kw hubmotor. I really dont need any more then 5kw of power...and usually stay around 2kw for most riding. I imagine if you add ferro fluid and proper heat sinks to a 3kw motor, it can handle 5-7 kw bursts of 20 seconds or less.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by rumme » Mar 20 2018 2:42pm

Theodore, not everyone is gonna be able to afford multiple ebikes ranging in prices from $800- $ 6000 each, just to try and suit a certain platform. Its cool that you can afford it, but your average ebiker is not coming at it from your perspective. I ride my ebike to suit my personal needs/tastes and dont care what other onlookers feel about it. For under $4000 , I have e bike that can keep up with a $8000 stealth bomber quite well . It can handle flat roads, hills, dirt, trails and it gives a comfortable ride with good commuting distance on a single charge. It can basically do most of the things your $800 Sondors can do or your $7000 stealth bomber can do. Besides, most of us dont have enough garage space to own numerous ebikes, therefore it makes alot of sense for the rest of us to spend the least amount of money on 1 ebike that can handle all the things we want to do with it.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Chalo » Mar 20 2018 3:29pm

Gotta have two if you depend on them. It's not like you can have the thing towed to Pep Boys for same day service when you have a problem.

I only keep one e-bike at the moment, but that's because I have a raft of pedal bikes to serve me if there's an issue with the cordless power tool.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 20 2018 4:45pm

rumme wrote:
Mar 20 2018 2:42pm
Theodore, not everyone is gonna be able to afford multiple ebikes ranging in prices from $800- $ 6000 each, just to try and suit a certain platform. Its cool that you can afford it, but your average ebiker is not coming at it from your perspective. I ride my ebike to suit my personal needs/tastes and dont care what other onlookers feel about it. For under $4000 , I have e bike that can keep up with a $8000 stealth bomber quite well . It can handle flat roads, hills, dirt, trails and it gives a comfortable ride with good commuting distance on a single charge. It can basically do most of the things your $800 Sondors can do or your $7000 stealth bomber can do. Besides, most of us dont have enough garage space to own numerous ebikes, therefore it makes alot of sense for the rest of us to spend the least amount of money on 1 ebike that can handle all the things we want to do with it.
rumme, I'm sure your bike is great, and I know the Stealth's are, but neither one of them is representative of the average eBike, which I'm guessing is going to be a factory built bike of 750w or less, usually a lot less. Based on my around town observation the most common eBike owned up till recently must have been a Walmart iZip. Our high powered eBikes are not good ambassador's for the advancement of eBikes going mainstream. Bikes such as a Sondors Fold are, because they're affordable, and unintimidating even to people that haven't ridden a bicycle in many years. Most of these people's average age is around 50, and most of them aren't interested in going very fast. They're attracted to eBikes because their knees are shot, and they probably lack exercise because of it. For them riding typical LPE bicycle is like getting a release from prison.

I ride my Stealth as much as the need arises, but when I do, I try to keep it under the radar, which is something I don't feel need to do on the little bikes.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 22 2018 10:00am

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Spencnor » Mar 22 2018 12:50pm

I love your mods to your Sondors Fold - very tastefully done! I’m considering buying a Fold for my 2nd EBike for its small form factor. May I ask what is the weight in its current form?

Also, do you find the new larger wheels and tires make it better riding than stock?

Thanks.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Space_Walker » Mar 22 2018 12:58pm

Looks unreal like a toy
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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Chalo » Mar 22 2018 2:18pm

Space_Walker wrote:
Mar 22 2018 12:58pm
Looks unreal like a toy
There is a simple reason for that.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 22 2018 8:49pm

Chalo wrote:
Mar 22 2018 2:18pm
Space_Walker wrote:
Mar 22 2018 12:58pm
Looks unreal like a toy
There is a simple reason for that.
I have to admit, it does feel unreal when I ride it, and it is among the best toys I've ever had. :)

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 22 2018 10:05pm

Chalo wrote:
Mar 22 2018 2:18pm
Space_Walker wrote:
Mar 22 2018 12:58pm
Looks unreal like a toy
There is a simple reason for that.
If you put 3' tall apehangers on and a 400mm seatpost you could probably pedal no probem.
Yuba Mundo w/BBSHD
Specialized Hard Rock w/9c clone, statoraid, hubsink
Trek Fuel 90 w/BBSHD
Above all run on 14s4p 52v li-ion
Ecobike folder 36v
Currie Flyer scooter 24v on 24ah of SLA

Every trip made with electric bike is one less car trip, saves money, no toxic fumes, less noise, less impact on roads.

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Re: Here Comes the Sondors Fold

Post by Theodore Voltaire » Mar 23 2018 12:16pm

Spencnor wrote:
Mar 22 2018 12:50pm
I love your mods to your Sondors Fold - very tastefully done! I’m considering buying a Fold for my 2nd EBike for its small form factor. May I ask what is the weight in its current form?

Also, do you find the new larger wheels and tires make it better riding than stock?

Thanks.
Thanks man. My larger double wall wheels, fenders, lights, and Maximus bars, plus 25 amp controller added 15 lbs. Total curb weight is now 65 lbs. Doesn't really matter though, because since getting it I've lost 20 lbs. :)

I like the handling better now, although stock it handles pretty well for the speeds it gets up to. Now it feels, and looks more sporty, and it cruises about 2 mph faster. Alloy frames tend to be harsh riding, and this bikes frame feels about as solid as an anvil. The stock fatty tires do a much better job of smoothing over bumps, so if you ride fast on a lot of rough streets that's a consideration.

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