PowerVelocity controller review

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by ElectricGod » Dec 26 2018 1:51pm

Hi folks,

I'm building a 12 fet PV controller that will do 7kw or so...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =4&t=97440

I know with just beefed up traces, larger wires and bigger shunts that 6kw continuous is doable so this build is all about pushing the limits. I've been doing 5kw continuous on a couple of 12 fets and now have a 6kw controller. 7kw is theoretically possible.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

Freddddy   10 µW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Freddddy » Mar 06 2019 4:19pm

These controllers are very good. I have ordered my first one about a week ago. I'm was wondering how long they take to ship out as I still haven't heard or received a reply email since I paid f o r my order. Very prompt reply to begin with but once order placed..... um still waiting.

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MJSfoto1956   10 kW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by MJSfoto1956 » Mar 06 2019 6:03pm

Freddddy wrote:
Mar 06 2019 4:19pm
These controllers are very good. I have ordered my first one about a week ago. I'm was wondering how long they take to ship out as I still haven't heard or received a reply email since I paid f o r my order. Very prompt reply to begin with but once order placed..... um still waiting.
Took a couple of weeks for mine over the Xmas holidays.
I wouldn't be surprised if he builds** these to spec as the orders come in.

M

** basically it appears he orders pre-built controllers wholesale from China without any MOSFETS, then adds his own USA-quality components and beefs up any solder traces. On top of this, the real value is his unique iPhone/Android app. Good stuff.
Trump lied. People died. His supporters high-fived.

Слишком мало, слишком поздно

Freddddy   10 µW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Freddddy » Mar 06 2019 10:28pm

Mine is now on its way. I can't wait to use it

Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Powervelocity.com » Mar 07 2019 6:09pm

Sorry, guys. It's been probably the busiest time so far, so, there is a backlog. Seems like everyone is getting ready for the ride season. I am working on improving efficiencies.
Freddddy wrote:
Mar 06 2019 10:28pm
Mine is now on its way. I can't wait to use it

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cheeko   100 W

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by cheeko » Apr 10 2019 8:05pm

Great Controller i love my 24Fet had it about year now. no issues whats so ever
20S7P Futr Beta 26" Mxus3k with the Unbelievable Nucular 12F

MileHighGuy   1 mW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by MileHighGuy » May 24 2019 10:31am

ElectricGod wrote:
Dec 21 2017 4:01pm
Addy wrote:
Dec 21 2017 3:00pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Dec 21 2017 2:56pm
It took you longer to write your original reply than to do the actual test for me. Then you had to read my reply and write another reply. By then you could have tried this out on 10-20 different conductors and posted your actual results. LAME!!!
I didn't do the test because I don't have a 4-wire meter and I don't plan to buy one right now because I don't think I need it.

On the same note, you could do some reading and gain some understanding of these concepts instead of yakking on about how you're the only one testing and everyone else must be lazy.
Well... 4 wire meter purchased for comparison purposes and a couple sets of decent grade gold plated kelvin clips purchased for the 2 wire meter. We will see what happens soon enough! If the 4 wire meter blows the socks off the 2 wire meter...fantastic...if it doesn't...fantastic. The results will be the results. That's infinitely more than anyone else can say.

Those IXYS mosfets are still sealed in their bag. I've upgraded my grounding (just in case) and added my ground strap. I am preparing for actual tests.

Addy...
I'm going to guess that you don't have any test equipment at all beyond maybe a DMM. That explains a lot! I can't imagine why you didn't just post that to begin with. It is perfectly OK to NOT have scopes and meters and function generators and what not. I've spent money on this stuff over the years and obviously am still willing to buy more of it. My best scope cost me several thousand dollars in the 90's. I'd love to replace it with something current, but it still works great so what's the point? You should have just said to begin with that you don't have test gear. Why bother hiding the fact that you can't test and that you are taking this all on faith? I own the test equipment so I CAN test. LOL! Seriously...that was totally weak. Now we all know why you don't ever test anything...you can't test...plain and simple. You have no choice but to take what you read on faith. And that's perfectly OK...just say so. Why was that so hard? There was quite literally nothing to hide except for the fact that you can't prove anything you say with actual testing. I on the other hand can test and can back up what I say with real live testing. Good god man! What a waste of time posturing and pretending when honesty was the best approach!

Not bragging, but I have 3 o-scopes, 2 function generators, 3 component testers, DMM, 2 wire low ohm meter and soon a 4 wire meter. I've built various test tools too. I have probably 15 soldering irons and a Hakko solder station. I also have various adjustable power supplies, bread boards and zillions of components. I've done electronic component level repair since the late 80's. You use this sort of equipment for that kind of work. I currently work as a software developer since 2010. Prior to that, 25 years in sysadmin and prior to that component level repair as a job for 4 or 5 years while in school and a while afterwards. I went to school for an EE in the 80's. I never worked a day in the field because I discovered I liked computers so much more and hated all the math an EE needs. Electronics have been a hobby of mine since I was 10 years old or so. I still have that yellow book written by Forrest Mims my mom bought me as a kid!
I for one really appreciate all of what ElectricGod does in testing and sharing his results. It's been two years since this post and I'm just happening apon it Because i am wanting some information on what mosfets are the absolute all around best for a 24f controller. There are mosfets on the market that cost upwards of $20 a piece and to strap 24 of those fuckers into a controller to have a unstoppable beast then I'll start saving my money and invest in those mosfets. And a big deciding factor in my choice in mosfet will be based on the results that ElectricGod has found. He's the only one calling people on their Bullshit and making them studder hahahaha hats off to you sir what you are doing is very appreciated thank you!!

MileHighGuy   1 mW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by MileHighGuy » May 24 2019 10:59am

I am just curious and lack any kind of knowledge in most of what is being talked about. But i am curious how a 24fet controller with the Toshiba 120v mosfets would behave if 4 of those mosfets were replaced with an inferior mosfet such as the irfb4011 in a single phase? Is this conceivable? As long as i do not come close to the 100v max that the 4011 are Rated then i am assuming that it will be just fine right?

Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Powervelocity.com » May 24 2019 11:34am

You can do that as long as you replace ALL four in the group with the same kind.
But Toshiba mosfets are not that expensive, so I would just go with the same kind already installed in the controller.
MileHighGuy wrote:
May 24 2019 10:59am
I am just curious and lack any kind of knowledge in most of what is being talked about. But i am curious how a 24fet controller with the Toshiba 120v mosfets would behave if 4 of those mosfets were replaced with an inferior mosfet such as the irfb4011 in a single phase? Is this conceivable? As long as i do not come close to the 100v max that the 4011 are Rated then i am assuming that it will be just fine right?

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by MileHighGuy » May 26 2019 11:36am

Powervelocity.com wrote:
May 24 2019 11:34am
You can do that as long as you replace ALL four in the group with the same kind.
But Toshiba mosfets are not that expensive, so I would just go with the same kind already installed in the controller.
MileHighGuy wrote:
May 24 2019 10:59am
I am just curious and lack any kind of knowledge in most of what is being talked about. But i am curious how a 24fet controller with the Toshiba 120v mosfets would behave if 4 of those mosfets were replaced with an inferior mosfet such as the irfb4011 in a single phase? Is this conceivable? As long as i do not come close to the 100v max that the 4011 are Rated then i am assuming that it will be just fine right?
Thanks for your timely reply i sent you an email with Details about my current issue thanks

Freddddy   10 µW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Freddddy » Aug 02 2019 8:36pm

I've had my controller since the start of March and am still not satisfied with it. What it has done is caused me headaches. The blue tooth app constantly cuts out with my android and I was told to borrow an i phone off someone I know. What a genius way to fix, borrow another person's phone. And my bike is performing the opposite that I expected. Very slow off the line and at top speed. T h e answer to this was to lower my low cut off voltage down to 40v. It did increase the power a lot but now I have no controller battery protection. I have a 87v pack which I'm running at 40v low cut off. That's really solved the problem, actually created another one. Thanks guys at power V. 👍

Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Powervelocity.com » Aug 05 2019 1:32pm

A video of some sort would be useful in diagnosing the Android issue. Due to variability in hardware and OS versions on Android devices, results may differ but can be solved with either OS updates or tweaking in the app. But I need exact details to see what's going on.

The soft cutoff is a feature, not a bug. As the battery voltage drops and get closer to the cut off value, the controller starts limiting power to protect the battery and allow you to extend the range. This feature can be turned off though and switched to hard cutoff.

Also, operating Li-ion batteries without BMS begs for big troubles. Dead batteries at best, fire in the worst case. The controller voltage cutoffs should not be relied upon as the only measure to protect batteries from over discharging, overcharging, etc.
Freddddy wrote:
Aug 02 2019 8:36pm
I've had my controller since the start of March and am still not satisfied with it. What it has done is caused me headaches. The blue tooth app constantly cuts out with my android and I was told to borrow an i phone off someone I know. What a genius way to fix, borrow another person's phone. And my bike is performing the opposite that I expected. Very slow off the line and at top speed. T h e answer to this was to lower my low cut off voltage down to 40v. It did increase the power a lot but now I have no controller battery protection. I have a 87v pack which I'm running at 40v low cut off. That's really solved the problem, actually created another one. Thanks guys at power V. 👍

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Re: A review of PowerVelocity AKA Vadym

Post by john61ct » Nov 20 2019 12:01am


ElectricGod wrote:Shameless plug for PowerVelocity/Vadym and his controllers
Apologies if answered above, did not read the whole.

Does this controller

http://powervelocity.com/home/48-18f-eb ... e-8kw.html

Support FOC torque control?

Does the whole line?

As in: "measuring and analyzing motor phase currents in real time at high bandwidth and doing some heavy math calculation with a fast CPU to determines rotor position"

Yes on variable regen I see, great!

Also compatible with CA v3, excellent!

Compare / contrast with Nucular? (They don't support CA)

Any other comparable / better? quality & power level with these three features worth recommending?


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E-HP   100 kW

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Re: A review of PowerVelocity AKA Vadym

Post by E-HP » Nov 20 2019 12:23am

john61ct wrote:
Nov 20 2019 12:01am
ElectricGod wrote:Shameless plug for PowerVelocity/Vadym and his controllers
Apologies if answered above, did not read the whole.

Does this controller

http://powervelocity.com/home/48-18f-eb ... e-8kw.html

Support FOC torque control?

Does the whole line?
If you do a thread search (at the top left of the page) on FOC, it looks from a glance that it doesn't support FOC, but I can't say I have any disappointment considering what I paid, relative to what I got, and compared to other options.

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by john61ct » Nov 20 2019 12:59am

Well if that's the case, **I'm** disappointed, was hoping for ease of setup, saving money would just be icing.

Phaserunner too wimpy for the power I need,

Lyen doesn't do FOC,

Sevcon and ASI / BAC are like impossible to configure,

Adaptto & Sabvoton are gone,

APT too big & heavy. . .

Nucular sounds good, but the maker seems to be actively opposed to CA!


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fechter   100 GW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by fechter » Nov 20 2019 8:59am

The smaller version I have does not do FOC, but it does have field weakening that works. It's like simulated FOC with essentially the same result.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

john61ct   10 GW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by john61ct » Nov 20 2019 11:28am

fechter wrote: It's like simulated FOC with essentially the same result.
So like CAv3, not measuring motor/phase current but battery current?

Means not truly controlling the motor torque directly correct?

Use case may require sync'ing two motors, spreading the high load between them as evenly / efficiently as possible.

True FOC would do that much better right?

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by amberwolf » Nov 20 2019 2:36pm

As I understand it, Field Weakening is essentially for increasing the speed of a motor, while Field Oriented Control is a completely different thing, as a method of controlling the currents within the motor to make it do what you want, rather than just the common brute-force preprogrammed waveshape timed by halls (or other sensing) from the motor.

So a controller that does only FW can run a motor faster than it's "base speed" but can't directly sense the currents within the motor and control them directly based on it's programming and settings.

But a controller that does FOC *can* do those, and if programmed to do it could also do FW because it can control all the currents in the motor any way it's setup to do so, with different currents in different phases if necessary.

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by john61ct » Nov 20 2019 3:33pm

Yes my desire for FOC has nothing to do with field weakening, in which I also have no interest.

Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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Re: A review of PowerVelocity

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 21 2019 1:27am

First, here is a short version of sinusoidal vs. FOC commutation:
https://www.motioncontroltips.com/faq-w ... mmutation/

In a very simplistic sense, sinusoidal performs about the same at lower RPMs. At higher RPMs, FOC wins in efficiency.

From my anecdotal experience running both on a bike, the throttle response feels very much similar (some people call it "like a gas bike throttle response"). However, FOC is really the gold standard for controlling a brushless motor today. Why? Because it's reliable, versatile, and efficient (very important for EVs where range is used as a measuring stick). It works equally well for running a bike or flying a plane.

This is why I spent last couple years designing that perfect controller that I will enjoy using myself and will not be ashamed to offer it to my customers. So, that's my recommendation what to get next. I know I am biased but, at least, for a good reason. It runs FOC, it's supports higher voltage, and it's designed to be easy to configure.

I will be posting some test videos here pretty soon: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=99621&start=125
Already running one of the prototypes on my bike and load testing another one on the bench. Very pleased with the way it performs so far. This is what production version will look like:
2019-11-20_22-18-51.jpg
2019-11-20_22-18-51.jpg (81.11 KiB) Viewed 1149 times

john61ct wrote:
Nov 20 2019 12:01am

Any other comparable / better? quality & power level with these three features worth recommending?

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by john61ct » Nov 21 2019 10:51am

My understanding is that FOC also means much smoother control?

And apparently best for this?
john61ct wrote:Use case may require sync'ing two motors, spreading the high load between them as evenly / efficiently as possible.

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 21 2019 11:40am

Between sinusoidal and FOC, most people will not tell the difference. Not in eBike application for that matter.
FOC is the way to go for all the other reasons I've mentioned though.

Motor syncing/load distribution is not a function of FOC per se, you can sync other drive types pretty efficiently as long as data is exchanged between multiple controllers and the adjustment algorithm is tuned right for the purpose.
john61ct wrote:
Nov 21 2019 10:51am
My understanding is that FOC also means much smoother control?

And apparently best for this?
john61ct wrote:Use case may require sync'ing two motors, spreading the high load between them as evenly / efficiently as possible.

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by john61ct » Nov 21 2019 12:47pm


Powervelocity.com wrote:Motor syncing/load distribution is not a function of FOC per se, you can sync other drive types pretty efficiently as long as data is exchanged between multiple controllers and the adjustment algorithm is tuned right for the purpose.
Can anyone link to example threads, docs on this topic?




Powervelocity.com   10 kW

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Powervelocity.com » Nov 21 2019 1:35pm

Here is some basic approaches discussed:
https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-synchro ... ectric-Car

However, it really depends on your specific application, what you are trying to do. That will determine the approach you would need to choose. For example, do you need maintain the same RPMs or the same torque on both motors?

For an ebike application, the simplest way to sync two motors is not do any syncing beyond just having the same throttle input. The load demand from the bike will equalize the torque requirement from both motors. You simply use two controllers independently and command the current/torque from the same throttle.
john61ct wrote:
Nov 21 2019 12:47pm
Powervelocity.com wrote:Motor syncing/load distribution is not a function of FOC per se, you can sync other drive types pretty efficiently as long as data is exchanged between multiple controllers and the adjustment algorithm is tuned right for the purpose.
Can anyone link to example threads, docs on this topic?

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Re: PowerVelocity controller review

Post by Freddddy » May 10 2020 9:16am

My power velocity 15kw controller i hunk of s#$t. Has never worked properly and been given the worst service imaginable by the rude, arrogant, bodgy, slack people who work there. Poor customer service to back up a real lowsy product. Zero effort given to help me try and sort out the problems with my expensive paperweight. My advise is to stay away from these nasty pieces of puss unless you want headaches and a bike parked in your garage. They suck !!!!!!

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