Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

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twist   10 mW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by twist » Jun 01 2018 4:35pm

Hi Everybody,

working right now also on the same setup. The cabling for this setup is easy if you are follow this threat :)

Download and print out the electricwheels.de Wiring Diagram (that saved my day!):
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=91775&start=25#p1360020
Then print out this one from Grin:
http://www.ebikes.ca/media/wysiwyg/CA3_Pinouts_2017.jpg
Have some plugs ready and then write down witch color cable you have to connect together.

Worked great for me! Thanks electricwheels.de and everbody else!

Now everything is working but I'm not to happy with the settings I have in the software. I'm new to the Cycle Analyst World and I don't find right now the perfect setup for me and it would be great if a few could share there settings!

I'm running a 14s Setup and I will use PAS 99% of the time.

How many PAS Poles does the BBSHD have? I'm using 12 poles right now!

Also just switched to CA3.1 where the settings are a bit different for PAS.

Cheers,
Christian
Last edited by twist on Jun 02 2018 4:18am, edited 1 time in total.

twist   10 mW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by twist » Jun 02 2018 4:17am

Here 3 Photos of the cabling:
BBSHD - Cabeling 01s.jpg
BBSHD - Cabeling 01s.jpg (191.21 KiB) Viewed 1828 times
I used the original cable from the BBSHD that was connected to the controller and cut it off from the controller.
Then I just attached a new JST plug to it and connected it to the Phaserunner.
For the PAS sensor I just used an old CAT-Cable (you see I have there still 4 lines that are yet not used) and connected it to a new JST plug.


BBSHD - Cabeling 02s.jpg
BBSHD - Cabeling 02s.jpg (196.15 KiB) Viewed 1828 times
For the power I just build a short cable with MT60 to Anderson plugs.


BBSHD - Cabling 03s.jpg
BBSHD - Cabling 03s.jpg (142.15 KiB) Viewed 1828 times
On the side from the CA I have the CAT-Cable coming from the BBSHD that splits from a 4-pin JST to two 5-pin JST (because I will be using 2 Cycle Analyst).
So here you could have just instead of the 4-pin JST to 5-pin JST put directly a 5-pin JST that plugs into the Cycle Analyst!!!
I just have the split because I have to use the PAS Data on 2 Cycle Analyst.




Today I will try to fine tune the software side!
If anybody has any software side settings that would be great!!

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by burner77 » Jun 02 2018 4:46am

I had melted Anderson 45 phase connectors with the original 30A
I would suggest some other connectors, like 4 mm gold or also the MT60 for phase
http://fasterbikes.eu • Domino, MXUS V3 Turbo (with FF & HubSink) and Bafang BBSHD shop • 5% discount for ES forum members, use voucher "ESMEMBER"

tinasdude   10 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » Jun 02 2018 12:00pm

twist wrote:
Jun 01 2018 4:35pm
Hi Everybody,

working right now also on the same setup. The cabling for this setup is easy if you are follow this threat :)

Download and print out the electricwheels.de Wiring Diagram (that saved my day!):
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=91775&start=25#p1360020
Then print out this one from Grin:
http://www.ebikes.ca/media/wysiwyg/CA3_Pinouts_2017.jpg
Have some plugs ready and then write down witch color cable you have to connect together.

Worked great for me! Thanks electricwheels.de and everbody else!

Now everything is working but I'm not to happy with the settings I have in the software. I'm new to the Cycle Analyst World and I don't find right now the perfect setup for me and it would be great if a few could share there settings!

I'm running a 14s Setup and I will use PAS 99% of the time.

How many PAS Poles does the BBSHD have? I'm using 12 poles right now!

Also just switched to CA3.1 where the settings are a bit different for PAS.

Cheers,
Christian
Christian, thanks for posting the links and the pics. Waiting in some IWISS JST crimpers and I will be taking the dive.

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by tinasdude » Jun 05 2018 11:01am

handbaked wrote:
Apr 06 2018 12:30pm
Is there any estimate on when the higo connected cycle analyst will become available? I had already made my phaserunner higo compatible but the CA would be amazing.
You changed out the JSTs on the Phaserunner to higo compatible with the BBSHD?. I was going to change the HD to JSTs, but Higo on the phaserunner would be much better. Where did you get your Higos? Could you share a parts list of what you you needed and used? Thanks

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by ejsamas » Jun 09 2018 10:17pm

twist wrote:
Jun 01 2018 4:35pm

working right now also on the same setup. The cabling for this setup is easy if you are follow

Now everything is working but I'm not to happy with the settings I have in the software. I'm new to the Cycle Analyst World and I don't find right now the perfect setup for me and it would be great if a few could share there settings!

I'm running a 14s Setup and I will use PAS 99% of the time.

How many PAS Poles does the BBSHD have? I'm using 12 poles right now!

Also just switched to CA3.1 where the settings are a bit different for PAS.

Cheers,
Christian
So I'm in basically the same situation as you are(18s tho) did you find any settings that you were happy with yet?

StinkyGoalieGuy   100 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Jun 14 2018 7:19pm

If anyone is interested

This is my current CA setup file:
https://app.box.com/s/9r7qk3z4kyd1dondzlg3kp0of7w9606f

This is my current PhaseRunner setup:
https://app.box.com/s/si3xocyxnzkcxk30kzk2scr5jrb8tohc

I'm running 21S Lithium Ion with a bit of field weakening. Still needs tweaking but these should get you started. You'll want to do your own autotune since your phase wire connection is probably different from mine.

andrebandre   10 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by andrebandre » Jun 15 2018 8:26pm

I would like to thank Aerial, Reinhard, Twist and Stinky for actually posting some real world crap. And anyone else if i forgot to mention.
Everybody promises to do so "soon" and nobody does. I guess they are so happy with the results when they hit the jackpot that they forget.
It is understandable.
At least speaking for myself.
Not as far as settings but as far as enjoying plug and paly stuff that works, for a change.
I got the ready made for Bafang CA3/PR from ERT late last year and the smile on my face while riding my bike has never ended.(6 months later)
I wish i could contribute to the forum only my skimpy knowledge is so limited and so expired that it might have been useful in the 1970's . Besides acute loss of memory wich makes my life very hard in any of it's aspects.
It took me one month of daily reading to somehwat understand the settings and complexities of the CA3 and the intricacies of making it happen with the PR and BBSHD.
So, thank you to the guys who really make a difference on the forum for the less electronics able minded
Last edited by andrebandre on Jul 07 2018 6:32pm, edited 2 times in total.

ejsamas   1 µW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by ejsamas » Jun 15 2018 10:01pm

StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:
Jun 14 2018 7:19pm
If anyone is interested

This is my current CA setup file:
https://app.box.com/s/9r7qk3z4kyd1dondzlg3kp0of7w9606f

This is my current PhaseRunner setup:
https://app.box.com/s/si3xocyxnzkcxk30kzk2scr5jrb8tohc

I'm running 21S Lithium Ion with a bit of field weakening. Still needs tweaking but these should get you started. You'll want to do your own autotune since your phase wire connection is probably different from mine.
Thanks Stinky I am very much interested and appreciative :mrgreen:

REBOOT   1 µW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by REBOOT » Jun 16 2018 9:08pm

Using Reinhard Mueller Cycle Analyst CA3-CX and information from
From Reinhard Mueller in living color !!!
Shown you how to interface Phaserunner CA DP PLUG CONNECTOR
But you need to purchase the adapter cable to go to HIGO S8 main connector
https://www.e-bike-technologies.de/inde ... r-ca3-higo

CA3-CX_CA3-HIGO_wiring_diagram !!! All the way at the bottom of this post. :D

PAS sensor cable
6- pin HIGO Lilac or purple cable

I found it best and easiest just to recycle JST 2.54mm Connector Plugs.
From your old BBSHD controller !!!

Red to Orange = +5volts (pas)
Black to Black = GND (pas)
Gray to Green = (pas)
White to White = (pas)
See photograph below
Note: From CA3-BBS-Phaserunner_V1R1.PDF

HALL Connections:
pin #1 RED -> RED
pin #2 BLACK ->BLACK
pin #3 Grey -> Yellow
pin #4 White -> Green
pin #5 Remove purple wire from JST Connector and leave it empty.
pin #6 Violet -> Blue
Note: This does not match up with CA3-BBS-Phaserunner_V1R1.PDF

For the three-phase connections I had to modify
The 10-12 awg .250 Male Quick Disconnect Full insulated wire terminal connector.
By taking a dremel with cutting wheel and removing some material to decrease the diameter of the sleeve.
This way I could get a full contact crimp and hopefully withstand the 50 amp draw.
The wire that comes with the Phase-Runner is aluminum and it’s tougher to solder.
I also employed TexnoXim F61A Highly active liquid flux for soldering most metals
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Liquid-solderi ... SwdGFYyXgT
10-12 awg .250 Male Quick Disconnect Full insulated wire terminal connector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50pk-10-12-awg ... 2eeb9d5cc5
Attachments
PAS for BBSHD-1.JPG
PAS for BBSHD-1.JPG (227.25 KiB) Viewed 1598 times
PAS for BBSHD-02.JPG
PAS for BBSHD-02.JPG (185.24 KiB) Viewed 1598 times
PAS for BBSHD-03.JPG
CA3-CX_CA3-HIGO_wiring_diagram.pdf
(985.08 KiB) Downloaded 29 times
CA3-BBS-Phaserunner_V1R1.pdf
(888.46 KiB) Downloaded 34 times
Last edited by REBOOT on Jul 08 2018 7:06am, edited 9 times in total.

magooXI@aol.com   1 µW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by magooXI@aol.com » Jun 18 2018 10:20pm

Hey guys,

Can we make this board a resource for our select group of enthusiasts? Hopefully the veterans can help here..

Where can we find or what is the best solution to make these adapters:

To connect a standard CA3-DPS with a standard Phaserunner and a standard BBSx you would need 5 adapters:
1. a throttle adapter to connect your BBSx throttle with the CA3
2. a brake adapter to connect your BBSx brakes with the CA3
3. a PAS adapter to connect your BBSx PAS sensor with the CA3
4. a hall adapter to connect your BBSx hall sensors with the Phaserunner
5. a phase adapter to connect your BBSx phase wires with the Phaserunner

How do I wire in my current gearsensor?
I am guessing just have the two ebrake sensors and gear sensor wire into the same connection and connect that to the ebrake connector on the CA3?

which iwiss crimpers for the jst's?

I have these
Enzotech Graphics Card Passive Heat Sink ,14 x 14x 14 mm, Copper, 8-pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BWXW6E/re ... RAb5ZZ0B9R
Brother, can you post a pic on how you ran those heat sinks? I think I overheated my bbshd and cooked the controller :(

Shout out to all making it happen and to those that are guiding the rest of us lost in the dark

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electricwheels.de   100 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by electricwheels.de » Jun 23 2018 5:56am

Hi all,

I keep getting enquiries as to when I release a CA3-Phaserunner combo with HIGO connectors on the phaserunner and a plug&play set of cables for the BBSHD.
The idea was to get some 'raw' phaserunners from Justin, wire it up with HIGOs and then encase it in epoxy. Justin so far is happy to supply some phaserunners, and even throw in a silicone mold for the phaserunner cast. Thanks heaps for that offer, Justin.
We know what we need in regard of wiring, too. A plan was posted by me earlier on in the tread.

The new CA3-CX is ready to go. C stands for the C in Custom and X for the 10 in old Rome. Both the CA3-HIGO with the original CA rear housing as well as the CA3-CX in its most basic version could then be directly connected to the phaserunner instead of having to use a JST to HIGO adapter cable as it would be the case with a standard phaserunner.

The problem I have here is I am going to become the manufacturer of this CA3-phaserunner-BBSHD-SET and in order to sell that SET I need compliance with CE rules. That means that because the phaserunner is NOT CE-compliant as is I have to get it certified - and that costs a lot of time writing manuals and a few thousand Eurons for EMI tests.

Also, because bikes are configured differently, the lenght of the wiring / cables differ a fair bit in lenght.

What also is missing is the white JVT connector for the hall sensors at the motor end. You need to take a whole boxfull and then organise shipping from China to EU.

So I decided to not go ahead with the phaserunner project. Sorry everybody, can't do.

I can supply parts and modified CA3-related hardware, all CE-compliant and will my full support. I myself have never used the phaserunner, can't give any advise on programming it, and can't afford time to get into this deep enough.

Why don't you form a group and try making a group buy from Justin for converted phaserunners? Making 10 phaserunners with HIGO-wiring to customers spec could perhaps be a proposition to him?
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andrebandre   10 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by andrebandre » Jun 29 2018 11:47pm

I too would take a set.

RollerBoy   1 mW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by RollerBoy » Jul 04 2018 11:52am

magooXI@aol.com wrote:
Jun 18 2018 10:20pm
...
I have these
Enzotech Graphics Card Passive Heat Sink ,14 x 14x 14 mm, Copper, 8-pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BWXW6E/re ... RAb5ZZ0B9R
Brother, can you post a pic on how you ran those heat sinks? I think I overheated my bbshd and cooked the controller :(
...
Here's an arrangement. Suggest you use heat sink grease to bridge air gap between the stator and the aluminum shell, (apply liberally on both surfaces and wipe up the extra after insertion), the heat will be mainly migrating radially outward, and you want to group your extra sinks around the edge to take advantage of the flat area. Scuff the surface of the BBSHD paint or take it down to metal. I took all the paint off the heat sinks and used thermal epoxy to bond.
Attachments
zcamera-20180704_115720.jpg

ejsamas   1 µW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by ejsamas » Jul 04 2018 10:45pm

So I've got my phaserunner running pretty nice but I'm having a problem getting PAS to work. Can someone tell me how they wired theirs up to work? Not sure if it's my wiring or my ca3 settings that are giving me trouble.

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Tom on 101   10 mW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Tom on 101 » Jul 11 2018 11:44am

I too am looking for a good thread (maybe started within the last year) for the CA 3.1, Phaserunner, PAS set up or walk through. My Phaserunner works very well but configuring the PAS has been very difficult. I realize this isn't quite the right thread so if someone can post a helpful link I'll delete this post.

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Mdu » Jul 17 2018 2:01pm

RE CA3 to BBS PAS PIN out

I found that this worked for me...

PIN - CA3 - BBSHD
1 - white - red - <- make sure this is a 5v feed from CA, take CA to bits and resolder to 5v tab. CA PAS is 10v standard.
2 - black - black
3 - blue - white
4 - yellow - gray

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mkebullitt   1 µW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by mkebullitt » Aug 05 2018 1:05pm

Hello, I’ve been reading this thread with great interest. Thank you all for sharing this information!

My question is, will these modifcations work with a Bafang BBS02?

I don’t intend to push it to high speeds, but having a more robust controller like the Phaserunner would make me more comfortable on long journeys.

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by burner77 » Aug 05 2018 1:16pm

BBS02 is already on the limit with 25A
the robust controller is useless, if your motor is too weak
go for a BBSHD
http://fasterbikes.eu • Domino, MXUS V3 Turbo (with FF & HubSink) and Bafang BBSHD shop • 5% discount for ES forum members, use voucher "ESMEMBER"

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burner77   100 W

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by burner77 » Aug 13 2018 3:19pm

Grin is now offering a ready to go harness for the BBSHD
a have ordered a few and took a few pics how it works
for all interested in:
https://fasterbikes.eu/en/controller/31 ... uded-bbshd
http://fasterbikes.eu • Domino, MXUS V3 Turbo (with FF & HubSink) and Bafang BBSHD shop • 5% discount for ES forum members, use voucher "ESMEMBER"

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by jpc6000 » Aug 21 2018 1:03am

Hi,

For programming the phaserunner I need the parameters of the bafang ultra drive.
Attachments
phaserunner.png
phaserunner.png (67.63 KiB) Viewed 711 times

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teslanv   100 MW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by teslanv » Sep 12 2018 10:24pm

So just getting my BBSHD + Phaserunner wired up. Got some issues, but first I'll enlighten you all to a bit of useful info.

The Purple wire from the BBSHD motor is the 10K NTC sensor. All you need to do to monitor the temp with a CA3 display is run this purple wire up to the temp input of the CA (Use Pin #2 of the 2-pin JST connnector). The Hall Sensors share a common ground the the 10K NTC temp sensor, and this ground is already routed to the CA3, so you don't have to connect a NTC ground wire for the temp signal. JUST the purple wire to pin 2 of the temp input. Then program the CA for a 10K NTC thermistor, and you should be golden.

Now for my troubles...

I am getting a hall sensor error when I run Autotune. I tested the throttle before running autotune on the system, and the motor jerked for a second and then stopped. :oops: So now I am worried that I may have fried the hall sensors inside the motor. Has anyone else had this issue, and/or has anyone tried to set up the BBSHD in sensorless mode?
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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by Daxxie » Sep 13 2018 2:42am

teslanv wrote:
Sep 12 2018 10:24pm
So just getting my BBSHD + Phaserunner wired up. Got some issues
I am getting a hall sensor error when I run Autotune. I tested the throttle before running autotune on the system, and the motor jerked for a second and then stopped. :oops: So now I am worried that I may have fried the hall sensors inside the motor. Has anyone else had this issue, and/or has anyone tried to set up the BBSHD in sensorless mode?
When I was setting up my Bafang / Phaserunner some weeks ago I had the same problem.
Took me a day before I discovered that the Hall connector (on the Phaserunner side), the JST-5 had a bad connection.
I took of the heatshrink and found that the yellow wire wasn't crimped properly.

What you could try:
Autotune tells you wich hall sensor is bad. (for example yellow)
Switch the wire of the bad sensor with another sensor. (switch yellow and blue for example)

If the error stays the same (yellow), it's probably in the wiring on the phaserunner side.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by teklektik » Sep 13 2018 12:48pm

teslanv wrote:
Sep 12 2018 10:24pm
I am getting a hall sensor error when I run Autotune.
hey teslanv!
Not sure if it will help, but...
This may be similar to the (old) problem with autotuning big gear motors (Mac, BMC, eZee). Try upping the 'Current Regulator BW' to 2000 or 3000 and the PLL BW to 2.00.

I tuned my Mac some time ago and so my PR Utility is a little out of date and newer defaults may have been changed to use these higher values...
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teslanv   100 MW

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Re: Grin Phase Runner / CA3 and BBSHD

Post by teslanv » Sep 13 2018 8:06pm

Figured out the Hall Sensor error. The phase wire connector came loose at the Phaserunner unit. Plugged it back in and Autotune seemed to work fine.
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