US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

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US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Jan 22 2018 10:03pm

Excerpt:

"On solar panels, Trump imposed tariffs of 30 percent in the first year, which will gradually fall to half that figure in four years. Those levies were less severe than requested by Suniva and SolarWorld, the two companies that sought the government relief.

“We are still reviewing these remedies, and are hopeful they will be enough to address the import surge and to rebuild solar manufacturing in the United States,” said Juergen Stein, chief executive officer and president of SolarWorld Americas Inc.

The Suniva-SolarWorld request for protection was opposed by much of the domestic U.S. solar industry. Tariffs make solar panels more expensive, and thus discourage their use, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association."


https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/ ... ssion=true
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 23 2018 4:11pm

Practicing what is known as the Infant Industry Theory, which China has way overused but now has it thrown in their face.

There is no question that China practices dumping at low prices to undermine the development of competitors, so strangely to the extent of even their own detriment. I wonder how much good this is really going to do us.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/infantindustry.asp
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by LockH » Jan 23 2018 5:00pm

Gotta protect the US oil and gas industries... :wink:
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Jan 23 2018 5:14pm

It will be interesting to see how this effects prices on panels, the last 100 watt flex panel I bought was a little over $100.00 USD. Thinking of running over and picking up a couple more for the cabin before prices possibly jump.
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by craneplaneguy » Jan 23 2018 9:47pm

It will be interesting to see how this effects prices on panels, the last 100 watt flex panel I bought was a little over $100.00 USD. Thinking of running over and picking up a couple more for the cabin before prices possibly jump


Why pay so much (per watt) for a flexible and no doubt shorter lived panel, when you can buy residential quality 290 watt modules (as an example for less then $200.00. Quite a bit less, if you can find someone with them in stock and sidestep the freight charges, and that right there is the only reason i'd use a flex type on a cabin. The flex panels have their place, where weight is an absolute concern, but on a cabin? I have PV panels over 30 years old, but not thin film or flex type. One 30 watt module pumps all domestic hot water through my thermal panels, day after day. Point being, a quality Ul listed 'for real" PV panel will last you the rest of your life, or so long it will seem like it. The flex/lightweight modules have nowhere near the track record of a CHEAPER (per watt, again) residential quality module. The freight deal can change the equation of course.
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Chalo » Jan 23 2018 10:40pm

LockH wrote:
Jan 23 2018 5:00pm
Gotta protect the US oil and gas industries... :wink:
Don't forget coal. There's nothing like adding 30% to the cost of photovoltaics to make coal look cheap again. Temporarily.

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 24 2018 2:09am

It's not about protecting any of that. It's about getting you to buy American. Too late to save Solyndra, but Obama never did care about doing as well as the Germans at this alternative energy thing.
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Hillhater » Jan 24 2018 8:51pm

The Chinese will probably just drop the landed price by another 30% to tilt the playing field again ! :roll:
Which is what the Solar Industry keep telling us the price will do in a year or so anyway . :wink:
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Hillhater » Jan 24 2018 8:56pm

Dauntless wrote:
Jan 24 2018 2:09am
?....but Obama never did care about doing as well as the Germans at this alternative energy thing.
"As well as the Germans"..? In what respect?..higher power prices?, higher emmissions,? Economically crippleing infrastructure costs ?
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Jan 25 2018 1:52am

craneplaneguy wrote:
Jan 23 2018 9:47pm
It will be interesting to see how this effects prices on panels, the last 100 watt flex panel I bought was a little over $100.00 USD. Thinking of running over and picking up a couple more for the cabin before prices possibly jump


Why pay so much (per watt) for a flexible and no doubt shorter lived panel, when you can buy residential quality 290 watt modules (as an example for less then $200.00. Quite a bit less, if you can find someone with them in stock and sidestep the freight charges, and that right there is the only reason i'd use a flex type on a cabin. The flex panels have their place, where weight is an absolute concern, but on a cabin? I have PV panels over 30 years old, but not thin film or flex type. One 30 watt module pumps all domestic hot water through my thermal panels, day after day. Point being, a quality Ul listed 'for real" PV panel will last you the rest of your life, or so long it will seem like it. The flex/lightweight modules have nowhere near the track record of a CHEAPER (per watt, again) residential quality module. The freight deal can change the equation of course.
Yeah I agree rigid panels make more sense, the only problem is although cabin is in a real nice location there is a substantial impoverished population in a proximity to the place and the tweekers REALLY like solar panels so the flex panels allow me to easily move them inside when I'm not there since they only weigh like 3 lbs.
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 25 2018 3:17am

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 24 2018 8:56pm
Dauntless wrote:
Jan 24 2018 2:09am
?....but Obama never did care about doing as well as the Germans at this alternative energy thing.
"As well as the Germans"..? In what respect?..higher power prices?, higher emmissions,? Economically crippleing infrastructure costs ?
Oh, silly boy, are you really so out of touch? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 20156.html

Wish I could remember their name, but did you know it was an AMERICAN company marketing in Germany that really brought that snowball to speed?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/maga ... evolution/

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by craneplaneguy » Jan 25 2018 9:35am

Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Jan 25 2018 1:52am
craneplaneguy wrote:
Jan 23 2018 9:47pm
It will be interesting to see how this effects prices on panels, the last 100 watt flex panel I bought was a little over $100.00 USD. Thinking of running over and picking up a couple more for the cabin before prices possibly jump


Why pay so much (per watt) for a flexible and no doubt shorter lived panel, when you can buy residential quality 290 watt modules (as an example for less then $200.00. Quite a bit less, if you can find someone with them in stock and sidestep the freight charges, and that right there is the only reason i'd use a flex type on a cabin. The flex panels have their place, where weight is an absolute concern, but on a cabin? I have PV panels over 30 years old, but not thin film or flex type. One 30 watt module pumps all domestic hot water through my thermal panels, day after day. Point being, a quality Ul listed 'for real" PV panel will last you the rest of your life, or so long it will seem like it. The flex/lightweight modules have nowhere near the track record of a CHEAPER (per watt, again) residential quality module. The freight deal can change the equation of course.
Yeah I agree rigid panels make more sense, the only problem is although cabin is in a real nice location there is a substantial impoverished population in a proximity to the place and the tweekers REALLY like solar panels so the flex panels allow me to easily move them inside when I'm not there since they only weigh like 3 lbs.
Good reason! I've put them up a steel pole just for that reason, 16' high, and not where they can drive up to them, they'd need to pack an extension ladder with them. I also bugger up the threads on the bolts securing them to the welded steel rack, so now a thief is up 16', with the ladder leaned against a 3' pipe (real unstable) and wrestling with the hardware, most are too damn lazy to work that hard. Nowadays, a sign saying the property is video protected by wireless motion activated cameras may help, probably not enough though for the real thief.

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by billvon » Jan 25 2018 5:00pm

Dauntless wrote:
Jan 24 2018 2:09am
It's not about protecting any of that. It's about getting you to buy American. Too late to save Solyndra, but Obama never did care about doing as well as the Germans at this alternative energy thing.
Uh, you do realize that the two companies that asked Trump to impose the tariff are owned by the Germans and the Chinese, right?
--bill von

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by LockH » Jan 25 2018 6:19pm

Image

:wink:
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Dauntless » Jan 25 2018 8:29pm

billvon wrote:
Jan 25 2018 5:00pm
Uh, you do realize that the two companies that asked Trump to impose the tariff are owned by the Germans and the Chinese, right?
Dang, that Whirlpool. But just picture the commute to those three companies in Michigan, Georgia, Oregon, for those workers coming from Germany and China.

http://www.solarworld-usa.com/newsroom/ ... dent-trump
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by billvon » Jan 26 2018 12:10am

Dauntless wrote:
Jan 25 2018 8:29pm
Dang, that Whirlpool. But just picture the commute to those three companies in Michigan, Georgia, Oregon, for those workers coming from Germany and China.
Silly guy! Most of what goes to China and Germany via those companies is our money. (Recall how good Trump is at bankruptcies.)
--bill von

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Jan 26 2018 1:57am

craneplaneguy wrote:
Jan 25 2018 9:35am
Raisedeyebrows wrote:
Jan 25 2018 1:52am
craneplaneguy wrote:
Jan 23 2018 9:47pm
It will be interesting to see how this effects prices on panels, the last 100 watt flex panel I bought was a little over $100.00 USD. Thinking of running over and picking up a couple more for the cabin before prices possibly jump


Why pay so much (per watt) for a flexible and no doubt shorter lived panel, when you can buy residential quality 290 watt modules (as an example for less then $200.00. Quite a bit less, if you can find someone with them in stock and sidestep the freight charges, and that right there is the only reason i'd use a flex type on a cabin. The flex panels have their place, where weight is an absolute concern, but on a cabin? I have PV panels over 30 years old, but not thin film or flex type. One 30 watt module pumps all domestic hot water through my thermal panels, day after day. Point being, a quality Ul listed 'for real" PV panel will last you the rest of your life, or so long it will seem like it. The flex/lightweight modules have nowhere near the track record of a CHEAPER (per watt, again) residential quality module. The freight deal can change the equation of course.
Yeah I agree rigid panels make more sense, the only problem is although cabin is in a real nice location there is a substantial impoverished population in a proximity to the place and the tweekers REALLY like solar panels so the flex panels allow me to easily move them inside when I'm not there since they only weigh like 3 lbs.
Good reason! I've put them up a steel pole just for that reason, 16' high, and not where they can drive up to them, they'd need to pack an extension ladder with them. I also bugger up the threads on the bolts securing them to the welded steel rack, so now a thief is up 16', with the ladder leaned against a 3' pipe (real unstable) and wrestling with the hardware, most are too damn lazy to work that hard. Nowadays, a sign saying the property is video protected by wireless motion activated cameras may help, probably not enough though for the real thief.
Well the little micro wind generator is up on a pole like that and it's remained there although it likely holds a lot less attraction. The pro's run around with those 36v Sawsall's and angle grinders though (stolen of course), hard to stop that particular breed of "tradesman". Here's an article from a while back with a little insight into what I'm dealing with where the people interviewed successfully downplayed the problems:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2013/04/2 ... -the-west/

(don't get me wrong though, I love the community and have had the place for about 15 yrs, it's just that small percentage of undesirables that makes everyone keep their forcefields up)
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Hillhater » Jan 27 2018 9:10pm

Dauntless wrote:
Jan 25 2018 3:17am
Oh, silly boy, are you really so out of touch?
...?? Am I, or are you ?
http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/28/germa ... cooperate/
Germany's RE was reported to have supplied 33% of electricity demand during 2017.
Thats 33% of their approx 60GW average demand...IE 20 GW on average from RE.. (But of course never continuously!)
But,...that is 20 GW supply from and installed 100+ GW of installed RE, and a total of 200+ GW of total installed power generation
And the cost vs the benefits ?..
Germany has spent an estimated 189 billion euros, or about $222 billion, since 2000 on renewable energy subsidies. But emissions have been stuck at roughly 2009 levels, and rose last year, as coal-fired plants fill a void left by Germany’s decision to abandon nuclear power. That has raised questions — and anger — over a program meant to make the country’s power sector greener.......
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/busi ... nergy.html
Germany' s RE power system only works at all, because..
A)..it has retained 100+% thermal generation back up.
B). it is surrounded by many other countries that it can use to "ballance". Its grid power fluctuations.
C) it has such a high wealth they can afford such huge experiments.
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by billvon » Jan 28 2018 12:17am

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 27 2018 9:10pm
C) it has such a high wealth they can afford such huge experiments.
Good point. And we will benefit as we learn from those experiments, allowing us to do it more cheaply and more reliably.
--bill von

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by tomjasz » Jan 28 2018 6:34am

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 27 2018 9:10pm
Dauntless wrote:
Jan 25 2018 3:17am
Oh, silly boy, are you really so out of touch?
...?? Am I, or are you ?
You are, watch more Faux News. Fox and Friends litany of lies will straighten you out... if ya’ll would stop qouting the misguided fella, I’d never have to read, or see the superfluous posts.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Hillhater » Jan 28 2018 7:01am

billvon wrote:
Jan 28 2018 12:17am
Hillhater wrote:
Jan 27 2018 9:10pm
C) it has such a high wealth they can afford such huge experiments.
Good point. And we will benefit as we learn from those experiments, allowing us to do it more cheaply and more reliably.
Well, there is plenty to learn for sure..
http://notrickszone.com/2018/01/26/unst ... dzEDn.dpbs
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by sendler2112 » Jan 28 2018 7:51am

Wholesale Solar .com is a full service mail order company in the USA where we can see real world pricing on panels.

JA panels are the cheapest at $0.89 USD/W.
.
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1890060/ ... lar-panels
.

USA made Solar World panels are running $1.12/W for a pallet.
.
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1892036/ ... lar-panels
.
Let's see which one goes up 30% and which stays the same. Hopefully the USA made Solar World panels will HOLD their pricing and take back some market share to get the production ball rolling.

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Jan 29 2018 11:13pm

Looks like this directive is causing some ripples of some sort:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1 ... =emaildkre
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by zega » Mar 07 2018 10:45pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Jan 28 2018 7:51am
Wholesale Solar .com is a full service mail order company in the USA where we can see real world pricing on panels.

JA panels are the cheapest at $0.89 USD/W.
.
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1890060/ ... lar-panels
.

USA made Solar World panels are running $1.12/W for a pallet.
.
https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1892036/ ... lar-panels
.
Let's see which one goes up 30% and which stays the same. Hopefully the USA made Solar World panels will HOLD their pricing and take back some market share to get the production ball rolling.
I designed a solar system to help a friend (12.8KWp DC) with two Sunnyboy 7KW grid tie inverters, total cost in materials was ~11500$ with freight!
Now sunelec.com at the time was selling panels as low as 0.22$/W BUT we could not buy those since all the cheapest panels are reserved for Puerto Rico releaf (can't complain, you have to help people over there), so we bought 0.6$/W GCL-P6-72-320W panels ...
Some pics:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Dauntless » Mar 08 2018 1:03am

Such a neat project, a shame to waste it in a thread where the haters are raging at efforts to build panels in America. You deserve a thread of your own where American workers making panels can feel welcome.
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