Fresnel lens power

This video pretty much sums up that anyone with a few square meters of sunlight on their property, could power all their energy needs, given the proper equipment (steam generator).

Well, that's my guess. If you can turn a padlock into a puddle in 5 minutes with what is likely < 1 square meter of fresnel lens, then you should be able to power a multi-kw electric steam generator with a few more lenses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoMjBkKOkPc&feature=related

Sorry for the shameless self-plug, but this seems somewhat relevant
http://www.instructables.com/id/Non-PV-Solar-Power/
Fresnel lenses really are powerful... The sun would move and then instantly melt the foam shroud... in fact, it melted a plexiglas window I had it shining through
So I found that with fresnels you need a really good targeting system, to use them productively. Or you just have an extreme fire hazard

Yeah, they seem like they are extremely efficient at condensing solar energy. This is really surprising me - why are they not being used to electricity generation at a powerplant? If you had a bunch of these programed to heat a steam turbine, wouldn't that be a lot more powerful than solar panels? Coal is nothing more than condensed solar energy. Now we have technology that condenses solar energy for immediate use! Hello!!!

Imagine one the size of a house? That would be like a death-ray gun or something :lol:

I mean, you'd have about 50 m^2 x 1000watts, focused on a single point.

Well there are power plants like this, they just use mirrors, cuz mirrors can be on the ground, can be cheaper, and can be more easily aimed.

Not fresnel lens focusing, but focusing lens none the less. These guys are a few miles from me, and I've stopped by to look at three of their solar concentrators for high temperature photo voltaic cells. It is another step in the advancement of solar cells. Some might find it interesting.

These concentrators could be used to focus the heat on the heat collector of a Stirling Cycle heat engine with integrated linear alternator also.

http://greenfieldsolar.com/our_technology.php

GreenField has taken a novel approach to significantly reducing the cost of solar power. The PhotoVoltâ„¢ cell is a rugged, low cost, high voltage and low series resistance silicon solar cell with vertical junctions and contacts providing near-optimum current collection without sheet resistance, current crowding, or blockage of illumination. Being designed for high-intensity operation, it inherently uses a greatly reduced amount of semiconductor material as compared with flat-panel cells. This innovative cell is designed for efficient operation at high intensities (hundreds of suns and higher), a unique feature compared to other solar cells. The PhotoVoltâ„¢ cell is more robust and less expensive to produce and implement in a high intensity concentrator system than other types of exotic cells designed for high intensity operation. Being fabricated from silicon, these cells leverage the most widely used semiconductor material, and avoid environmental concerns and degradation issues associated with some of the other cell technologies.

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Well, really large fresnels are used on lighthouses to concentrate that light into a beam that can be seen for miles. Some of them are quite massive, though I haven't seen one the size of a house, I have seen pics of some bigger than me.

I had planned on using one (along with a parabolic casing) to see if I could better concentrate CFLs into headlight beams, but havent' found either part yet.

bigmoose said:

...These concentrators could be used to focus the heat on the heat collector of a Stirling Cycle heat engine with integrated linear alternator also...

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Count me in with both feet. Does that mean we can get help from a true expert? Will planar springs work for the displacer or is a gas spring hands down the best way? Helium? What pressure? What delta T with solar as the primary supply? A no maintenance free piston stirling spitting out perfect 60hz AC has been a dream since I first ran across them some years ago.

John

Solar concentrators are the next wave in Solar energy.

I bought some books from this guy. From him I found that big screen TV's have a Fresnel lens in front. Don't know if LCD or Plasma do. When a small scratch on the front causes the owner to fix it by replacing it, you can ask the repair people for the old one.

here is the Fresnel for sale on his site

http://www.knowledgepublications.com/solar_mirrors_lenses_concentrators.htm

PedalingBiped said:

Solar concentrators are the next wave in Solar energy.

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With retail prices of PV panels getting below $2/watt and more to go once the thin film stuff becomes available to the public, setups requiring concentration may not be able to compete since it requires tracking. I believe the exception would be a solar dish stirling that also incorporates an alternate heat source for home heating as well as electricity production. Then you not only can you produce electricity at night, but during the cold months the waste heat from making electricity can heat your home both day and night. That would be my dream system if I lived at a higher latitude.

John in CR said:

Will planar springs work for the displacer or is a gas spring hands down the best way? Helium? What pressure? What delta T with solar as the primary supply? A no maintenance free piston stirling spitting out perfect 60hz AC has been a dream since I first ran across them some years ago. John

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Ah John... I'll answer what I can. This was a nice thread from last year:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10818

http://www.sunpower.com/lib/sitefiles/pdf/publications/Doc0094.pdf

google sunpower and combined heat and power or nasa glenn and stirling it should show up a plethora of links.

Sunpower prototyped a residential combined heat and power unit of around a kilowatt for European introduction (50Hz I believe) a few years ago. It was under the direction of Neal Lane the CEO at the time. Neal is no longer with the company, so there may have been a change of company direction ... I did not find mention of CHP on their current website.

Why I often talk of alternate power economics with Luke is about situations like this. Sure we can produce power with other sources of energy, for example I just read that the cost per Kwh is $0.02/kwh for coal; $0.06 to 0.08/kwh for natural gas; $0.22/kwh for onshore wind; $0.30/kwh for offshore wind; ... etc. Just how do you introduce a replacement technology that is 10 to 20X the cost of coal fired generation, while coal is still available? ... the economics have to work also.

So while Stirling cycles are approaching 40% conversion efficiency from BTU in to ePower out, just how do you compete with coal on cost?

Europe's first commercial solar plant, situated in Sanlucar la Mayor, 25 km west of Seville, was inaugurated in March 2008.

The 11 MW plant, known as PS10, is the first tower technology solar thermoelectric power plant used for commercial purposes in the world and generates electricity to power 6,000 homes. 624 heliostats, or movable mirrors, concentrate solar radiation onto a receiver located on a 115 m high tower. Water is turned into steam which is then blasted into turbines to generate power.

The PS10 plant is part of the Sanlucar la Mayor Solar Platform which, when completed in 2013, will provide enough energy to power some 180,000 homes, or a city the size of Seville.

[youtube]IR7y1g9Wz-8[/youtube]

Read an article the other day, where, the FED Govt. appropriated several thousand acres of desert for Solar Projects. Immediately Front Companies of major Corps, including Oil and Developers, jumped all over the tieing up of MOST of the areas. NOT ONE project was ever started. This land lease was done in 2004, if I remember correctly.

Some developers admitted that they were waiting for other projects to start, so they could start developing housing, which was NOT a viable option for securing the leases. ?? Others just wanted to be sure that they had a place leased, whether they ever used it or not

When is Govt going to get the hell out of BUSINESS decisions ???

bigmoose said:

John in CR said:

Will planar springs work for the displacer or is a gas spring hands down the best way? Helium? What pressure? What delta T with solar as the primary supply? A no maintenance free piston stirling spitting out perfect 60hz AC has been a dream since I first ran across them some years ago. John

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Ah John... I'll answer what I can. This was a nice thread from last year:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10818

http://www.sunpower.com/lib/sitefiles/pdf/publications/Doc0094.pdf

google sunpower and combined heat and power or nasa glenn and stirling it should show up a plethora of links.

Sunpower prototyped a residential combined heat and power unit of around a kilowatt for European introduction (50Hz I believe) a few years ago. It was under the direction of Neal Lane the CEO at the time. Neal is no longer with the company, so there may have been a change of company direction ... I did not find mention of CHP on their current website.

Why I often talk of alternate power economics with Luke is about situations like this. Sure we can produce power with other sources of energy, for example I just read that the cost per Kwh is $0.02/kwh for coal; $0.06 to 0.08/kwh for natural gas; $0.22/kwh for onshore wind; $0.30/kwh for offshore wind; ... etc. Just how do you introduce a replacement technology that is 10 to 20X the cost of coal fired generation, while coal is still available? ... the economics have to work also.

So while Stirling cycles are approaching 40% conversion efficiency from BTU in to ePower out, just how do you compete with coal on cost?

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Bigmoose,

I read that the target cost of SES's 25kw dish stirlings was $50k/unit, so $2/w with little maintenance other than cleaning the mirrors. The way to make the economics work is not to sell to the guys making electricity with coal for 2 cents/kwh, but instead to the end user who's paying what, about 12 cents/kwh. Incorporate the price in the cost of the house to eliminate the out of pocket burden.

Now let's look at a 1kw unit in a place of very good sun. 12 cents per kwh, 6 hours a day, 350 days a year, for 20 years. Let's ignore the time value of money, which is fair since we're not considering increases in electricity prices. That's $5k of value or $5/watt, so there's wiggle room despite PV being less than half that price now, since the stirling can work at night or in bad weather with another heat source. Plus the dish stirling includes tracking, so the rated power will be closer to reality and for a longer portion of the day compared to the wing and a prayer perfect sun a couple of hours a day a couple of weeks a year rating for PV.

Once electric cars become widespread, then houses that produce their own energy including enough to cover the bulk of the energy needed for transportation would be something that would sell for a hefty premium. It's the kind of thing the utilities co's will fight to squash becoming real, just like Chevron/Texaco did with large format NiMH batteries.

John

PS- I thought the 6 months we talked about back in '09 was long up. I've just been distracted by cheap PV cells.

In the 80's I read an article about a community, probably in Arizona or So Cal. The whole package was a house covered in Solar Panels on the roof. It came with enough output to even charge a car, and that was the sales pitch. Price was high, but, that was in the 80's. If someone that has good search abilities, they might find that article and post it up here, so 'all can analyze it for costs-results ??

I really enjoy these threads. It gives me hope that ideas such as these will come to be. Me I'll just keep trying to add to my pv setup, and Myself and a friend are starting on a project based off the Solar attic heat exchangers built in Minnesota. Not sure where it will end up. I would love to design an off the grid house heated and powered with sun/wind and geothermal. Starting with a good passive solar design. The old 1955 brick ranch I have now is decent. It has 6 inch brick, 6 inch cinderblock and 2x2 framing. All exterior walls are 14 inches thick. My eaves are 6 ft wide. It shades all the windows in the summer. I wish more houses were designed decent in the first place. We are thinking of moving and I can't find anything I like after living here for 10 yrs.

Read an article the other day, where, the FED Govt. appropriated several thousand acres of desert for Solar Projects. Immediately Front Companies of major Corps, including Oil and Developers, jumped all over the tieing up of MOST of the areas. NOT ONE project was ever started. This land lease was done in 2004, if I remember correctly.

Some developers admitted that they were waiting for other projects to start, so they could start developing housing, which was NOT a viable option for securing the leases. ?? Others just wanted to be sure that they had a place leased, whether they ever used it or not

When is Govt going to get the hell out of BUSINESS decisions ???

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No they don't need to get out they need to start enforcing the terms of the leases, and levying fines if possible against those who tied up the land never intending to do anything.

Re: Fresnel lens power

by torker » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:26 pm
I really enjoy these threads. It gives me hope that ideas such as these will come to be. Me I'll just keep trying to add to my pv setup, and Myself and a friend are starting on a project based off the Solar attic heat exchangers built in Minnesota. Not sure where it will end up. I would love to design an off the grid house heated and powered with sun/wind and geothermal. Starting with a good passive solar design. The old 1955 brick ranch I have now is decent. It has 6 inch brick, 6 inch cinderblock and 2x2 framing. All exterior walls are 14 inches thick. My eaves are 6 ft wide. It shades all the windows in the summer. I wish more houses were designed decent in the first place. We are thinking of moving and I can't find anything I like after living here for 10 yrs.

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Housing in NA is built as cheaply as possible, designed to fall apart in 15 to 20 years. It will require a complete change in attitude that homes are to be built for 100 years or more with self sustaining technology and multi generational mortgages to pay for them.

These guys hopefully are putting Fresnals to good use and the EMCORE multi layer PV Cells
http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/

US Link http://heliossolarcpv.com/
and http://www.vibrantsolar.com/


Also these guys are using a different brand of Multilayer PV Cells and mirrors.
http://www.solarsystems.com.au/Locations.html

http://www.dkasolarcentre.com.au/go/technologies/concentrix-concentrating-pv-panels
And
http://www.dkasolarcentre.com.au/go/technologies/concentrating-photovoltaic-cpv-array-solfocus

But both of these are yet to be completed :?

Have a look over the other bits of the site for live realtime and logged data for all sorts of PV panels.

Also a Google map of Australia with schools that have live Solar Data http://www.solarschools.net/map.aspx
You have to zoom in and click for pop-up and then on the school name to get live data.
http://www.solarschools.net/profile.aspx?id=951

I'm collecting other Live links to PV solar systems so if you know of any post them up.

I have been planning for some time now to use a fresnel lense and concentrate it on a boiler tank to operate a steam engine plant for my home. But you have to be very careful. Steam creates very high pressures and many have been killed by it. Some of you may remember the old steam tractors. Every now and then one of those blew up too! The sun tracker for such a concentrator is expensive.

Check out this video. There are several more, related to electricity-heating water, AND refrigeration.

I'm only putting this one up. Feel free to add others, related to this technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Ctw3zA2F4&feature=player_embedded

I have two of the large Fresnel lenses. They were free, salvaged from old projection tv's. I've been wondering if it would be possible to funnel the output into a fiberoptic cable so that the light could be bent and directed at anything. Sort of a free fusion welder. I have noticed that the frequency of the concentrated light seems to be very similar to the light generated from my Hydroxy Torch (home made).

If relatively cheap telescopes can track stars and moons etc.. surely a DIY method to design a sun tracker can be hacked from one of these? Why are sun trackers so expensive in the first place? Is there a patent owned by Mobil on them?

The above posted pictures components are being sold on ebay less the box, lense, and solar.

The Red Rock site is where to go for good info.

Here is the solar tracker module you can make or buy.

http://www.redrok.com/electron.htm#led3x

etard said:

If relatively cheap telescopes can track stars and moons etc.. surely a DIY method to design a sun tracker can be hacked from one of these? Why are sun trackers so expensive in the first place? Is there a patent owned by Mobil on them?

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It may be the weight/bulk of the item he is trying to move. Trackers can be made very cheaply using a few leds. Whichever led gets the strongest light is where the tracker stops. Most use old sattelite dish motors for pv trackers.