truckerzero
100 W
a inventer has supposidly made a over unity motor here is the sky news artical and his proof of concept demo on youtube enjoy and let the debate begin [youtube]efCelx7qe_M[/youtube][youtube]89M9sZmq8_M[/youtube]
free energy
- Thread starter truckerzero
- Start date
truckerzero
100 W
ok i found a explanation of how this all magnet motor/generator works weather this is a scientific breakthrough or nonsense ill leave up to you. the laws of phsics will have to be written if it is and we will have a electric car with unlimited range that never has to be recharged or have any kind of fuel added[youtube]jAk3tiaOewo[/youtube]
truckerzero
100 W
ok im starting to understand the basic idea and my thought is it some howe uses the magnets energy to put out more power than is needed to get the magnets arranged to take advantage of their stored energy this next video is very bad quality but demonstrates the basic thery and makes me belive all of this is not hype but really possable this is a must watch
[youtube]DAWbyeZFkdo[/youtube]
[youtube]j9UKcGTcfwo[/youtube]
[youtube]DAWbyeZFkdo[/youtube]
[youtube]j9UKcGTcfwo[/youtube]
Link
1 MW
Put it this way: I read through the comments on YouTube sometimes. Apparently there was supposed to be a public demo of this thing a year or so ago. It failed miserably.
Link
1 MW
bearcreek said:
Hey, I remember when MythBusters tested that. They needed like 100lbs of windings directly next to HV power lines to get a few milliamps of power at almost no voltage.
RLT
10 kW
I thought about doing something like that myself. I was considering buying a big hunk of land on a huge old ranch that subdivided, out in the middle of nowhere that had a MAJOR power line running through it. There was no electrical utility serving the area; and when I contacted the company that owned the power line about the possibility of forming a electrical utility company to serve the area they told me to do something to myself that would have been impossible if it were three times as long :wink:
... So I started thinking of ways to utilize 'leakages' without making an actual physical connection.I didn't buy the land, (primarily due to water being a huge gamble--- at least $35,000 to drill a well and no promise of hitting water at three times the price.) and even if I had, I doubt that my irritating honest streak would have let me do anything like that.... Probably would have settled for a few solar panels, a couple of wind generators and a backup generator....
But still, as much as I enjoy Mythbusters (I missed that episode) they do occasionally get things wrong.:
I don't KNOW otherwise, but it seems to me that if the magnetic flux from my homemade CD welder pulsing at 14V DC and what... maybe a thousand amps? has enough magnetic flux to activate a reed switch in proximity, that a high power line at a quarter million volts and enough amps to power a medium sized city; that raises your hair from two hundred feet away, and occasionally arcs to ground enough to form fulgurites, would have enough magnetic flux leaking out to provide more than a few milliwatts of power to a leaching inductor.
truckerzero
100 W
Lots of people are saying this is impossable you cant get somthing for nothing which could be true and still make a overunity motor
Think about this in a normal motor a magnet makes the one magnetic field and the electro magnet makes the other to create movement and power
but the electro magnet can be minipulated so if you could use one magnet as a stator the other as a rotor and could minipulate one of the magnets maby through mecanical means to act as the electro magnet and use less energy to minipulat it than the whole moter puts out then that would be a over unity motor
there are a lot of home brew ideas and i think it may be possable
if you think about it we know that two magnetic fields can create power and two magnets do create force wcich is power then all we are trying to do is to take this natural force that magnets create and somehow haness this force so the energy is there
im sure people never thought sunlight could be turned in to electricity untill some one did it
ill make another thread labeled all magnet motor as i think this is what is being worked on
Think about this in a normal motor a magnet makes the one magnetic field and the electro magnet makes the other to create movement and power
but the electro magnet can be minipulated so if you could use one magnet as a stator the other as a rotor and could minipulate one of the magnets maby through mecanical means to act as the electro magnet and use less energy to minipulat it than the whole moter puts out then that would be a over unity motor
there are a lot of home brew ideas and i think it may be possable
if you think about it we know that two magnetic fields can create power and two magnets do create force wcich is power then all we are trying to do is to take this natural force that magnets create and somehow haness this force so the energy is there
im sure people never thought sunlight could be turned in to electricity untill some one did it
ill make another thread labeled all magnet motor as i think this is what is being worked on
truckerzero
100 W
simple terms is harness the natural force and power of natural magnets
TylerDurden
100 GW
No free anything, except sun, wind and waves. (All brought to you by the sun, BTW)
Bedini, Bearden, mag motors have all been debunked.
The best way to think of magnets is like springs: they don't do much unless you apply energy to them.
:?
Bedini, Bearden, mag motors have all been debunked.
The best way to think of magnets is like springs: they don't do much unless you apply energy to them.
:?
RLT
10 kW
Oh.. I didn't intend for my post above about leaching energy from high voltage tension lines to give the idea that I think that the free energy motors at the beginning are anything but 'pie in the sky'.
The only one that ever managed to perfect that sort of device was John Galt, and we all know how that turned out.*.
Heck, even Tom Swift and Tom Swift Jr. were somewhat limited by the laws of physics.
* At least those of us who have read "Atlas Shrugged" know.
The only one that ever managed to perfect that sort of device was John Galt, and we all know how that turned out.*.
Heck, even Tom Swift and Tom Swift Jr. were somewhat limited by the laws of physics.
* At least those of us who have read "Atlas Shrugged" know.
Link
1 MW
RLT said:
I think they were replying to trucker.
AFAIK, the size of a magnetic field depends on amps more than volts, which is why induction motors and NMRs (giant superconducting electromagnets) use thousands of amps at low voltage to make a field. Power lines do transmit quite a few amps, but not even as many as are induced in the rotor of an induction motor, who's field isn't big enough to do much at more than a few inches away.
truckerzero
100 W
i still have hope that the aussy inventer shown in the vvideo at the start of this thread proves us wrong about over unity motors but answer this question if it takes electric to create a magnetic field and a magnet can do the same thing for free essintally theryeticly there should be a way to capture that energy not that we will ever figure it out just that its possable so any space aliens reading this chime in and give us a hint LOL 
RLT
10 kW
Did a little more research: Turns out that particular power line was 345KV and either 2000 or 2080 amps, possibly up to 3000, but the 2000A is probably the more accurate.
I gotta admit that I figured it would be in the tens of thousands of amps as it was supposed to be the main supply line for 250,000 customers, including a few moderately heavy industrial users.
Still, I'd think you could leach a fair amount of power from a 690 megawatt line unless it was shielded by about three feet of lead
(Or is it 69 megawatts? My math skills are dangerously bad.)
The best argument against it that I've found so far was a short comment over at the physics forums:
I gotta admit that I figured it would be in the tens of thousands of amps as it was supposed to be the main supply line for 250,000 customers, including a few moderately heavy industrial users.
Still, I'd think you could leach a fair amount of power from a 690 megawatt line unless it was shielded by about three feet of lead
(Or is it 69 megawatts? My math skills are dangerously bad.)
The best argument against it that I've found so far was a short comment over at the physics forums:
If I had one of those really big power lines within a hundred miles of me now, I'd splice all my pieces of wire together, coil them up, then take the coil and my multi-meter and go see for myself.
Link
1 MW
Oh, yeah, that too. :wink:
Completely forgot about that. It's the reason you have to use a hall-effect ammeter on only one side of the power line to get a reading.
And it's 690MW. 2,760W per customer does sound a little low...
truckerzero said:i still have hope that the aussy inventer shown in the vvideo at the start of this thread proves us wrong about over unity motors but answer this question if it takes electric to create a magnetic field and a magnet can do the same thing for free essintally theryeticly there should be a way to capture that energy not that we will ever figure it out just that its possable so any space aliens reading this chime in and give us a hint LOL
*sigh*
From Wikipedia:
"Financial history
Steorn's accounts for the year ending December 31, 2003, show that the company's Profit and Loss Account had an accumulated loss of € 192,661, while its cash reserves were € 94.
An update to the company's web site on February 9, 2007 includes an informal summary of the company's accounts as of 2006. The summary shows pre-tax losses of €779,047, €1,815,666, and €3,247,938 in 2004, 2005, and 2006, respectively.
The company's investment history shows share allotments for cash in August 2000, January 2001, March 2001, March 2004, then several rounds in December 2004, and one in October 2005. The investments amount to €3 million in total. The business case for the investments has not been disclosed, and it is not known if the recent investments are related to the free energy claim. The company has stated that it will not seek or accept further investment until the claim has been validated."
"Demonstration (July 2007)
On 4 July 2007 a simplified example of the technology was to be put on public display at the Kinetica Museum, Spitalfields Market, London. It was said that the displayed unit would be constructed of clear plastic to show the arrangement of magnets and demonstrate that the device operated without external power sources. The public demonstration was delayed and then cancelled due to "technical difficulties". Steorn initially suggested this resulted from "excessive heat from the lighting in the main display area" but later blamed the failure on damage they said was done in turn to each of five bearings due to a greenhouse effect within the box. Thus, early claims that the device would do work by lifting weights gave way to apologies regarding friction issues with clockmaker-type bearings.
Shortly afterward, Steorn announced that a second public demonstration would be held at an unspecified date in the future."
truckerzero
100 W
best case scenario is that they are making excuses to buy time but mayby they belive in something thats not possable or something like that
truckerzero
100 W
does anyone know if steron and the guy on sky news that supposidly all ready has this working motor are connected or two totally unrelated people my money is on the guy on sky news to do this first if it is even legit
TylerDurden
100 GW
It usually comes down to bad science and money...
If you search these forums for "sterling engine", you will find some tech that is real.
If you search these forums for "sterling engine", you will find some tech that is real.
Don't care what mythbusters says, the idea of sucking powerfrom air is too appealing to let it die. There has to be power to be harnessed there, I mean when you go under the 735kV lines if you touch something metal on your bike you get zapped, if you go there with a neon it lights up, and in the same way metal things like quarters stick to one another in an aluminium plant. Also in F-zero you recharge your car by hovering over the thing and there's no contact anywhere, and video games dominate all aspects of life.
As far as steorn device goes, my understanding was that they didn't use the right measuring instruments and so got incorrect voltage readings for AC, so they thought they had more power coming out then going in. Either that or they're out to scam as many people as possible and suck their gold out.
As far as steorn device goes, my understanding was that they didn't use the right measuring instruments and so got incorrect voltage readings for AC, so they thought they had more power coming out then going in. Either that or they're out to scam as many people as possible and suck their gold out.
TylerDurden
100 GW
3.3. Man-Made Sources of ELF
3.3.1 High-voltage transmission lines
The principal man-made sources of ELF are HV transmission
lines, and all devices containing current-carrying wire, including
equipment and appliances in industry and in the home operating at
power frequencies of 50 Hz in most countries and at 60 Hz in North
America.
Electrical energy is transmitted from the power plant, where it
is generated, along conductive, metallic transmission connections
(overhead power lines or underground cables) to substations and
finally to energy consumers.
A typical overhead line (Fig. 2) consists of supporting
structures (transmission towers or pylons) from which the live
conductors are suspended by sets of insulators. Each set of
insulators supports a single conductor or a bundle of two or more
conductors, which carries one electrical phase of the power supply.
The conductors of each phase are suspended far enough away from the
other conductors and the transmission tower to prevent flashover or
short-circuiting between one phase and another, or between the
phases and earth (via the supporting structure). In overhead
lines, the conductors consist of bare metal cables. Thus, any
approach to a live conductor presents a lethal danger due to
flashover and a resulting electric current flow that would precede
actual contact with a conductor.
High voltage lines are operated at standard voltages up to 750
or 765 kV and a line at 1100 kV is operating in the USSR. The
construction of 1000 - 1200 kV or 1500 kV lines is in progress or
at various stages in planning.
Most widely used are alternating current (AC) 3-phase HV lines.
One circuit of the 3-phase line comprises 3 single or 3 sets of
conductors under high-voltage and 1 or 2 grounded conductors that
protect the live conductors against lightning.
Typically, the unperturbed electric field at the height of an
average man, standing at the location of the maximum field (just
outside the outer conductor) of a high-voltage transmission line of
750 kV, is of the order of 10 kV/m. A lower value of about 1 kV/m
exists where the line is highest from the ground (20 m) and about
12 kV/m where it is lowest (13 m) (Zaffanella & Deno, 1978). The
electric field strength is a function of the lateral distance from
the centre of the HV line as shown in Fig. 3.
Occupational exposures that occur near high voltage transmission
lines depend on the worker's location either on the ground, or at
the conductor during live-line work at high potential. When working
under live-line conditions, protective clothing may be used to
reduce the electric field strength and current density in the body
to values similar to those that would occur for work on the ground.
Protective clothing does not weaken the influence of the magnetic
field.
3.3.2. Electric fields near transmission lines and sub-stations
At ground level, beneath high-voltage transmission lines, the
electric fields created have the same frequencies as those carried
by the power lines. The characteristics of these fields depend on
the line voltage, and on the geometrical dimensions and positions
of the conductors of the transmission line. The field intensity
selected for reference or comparison purposes is the undisturbed
ground level electric field strength. To avoid the effects of
vegetation or irregularities in the terrain, the unperturbed field
strength is usually computed or measured at a given height above
ground level (0.5, 1, 1.5, or 1.8 m).
There are several primary influences on the electric field
strength beneath an overhead transmission line. These include:
(a) the height of the conductors above ground (which is
influenced considerably by the ambient temperature
and heating caused by the current passing through the
conductor);
(b) the geometric configuration of conductors and
earthing wires on the towers, and in the case of two
circuits in proximity, the relative phase sequencing;
(c) the proximity of the grounded metallic structure of
the tower;
(d) the proximity of other tall objects (trees, fences,
etc.);
(e) the lateral distance from the centre line of the
transmission line;
(f) the height above ground at the point of measurement;
and
(g) the actual (rather than the nominal) voltage on the
line.
Inside buildings near HV transmission lines, the field
strengths are typically lower than the unperturbed field by a
factor of about 10 - 100, depending on the structure of the
building and the type of materials (Manders & van Nielen, 1981).
Conductor height, geometric configuration, lateral distance
from the line, and the voltage of the transmission line are by far
the most significant factors in considering the maximum electric
field strength at ground level. At lateral distances of about
twice the line height, electric field strength decreases with
distance in an approximately linear fashion. Reference to typical
measured or calculated field contours in the vicinity of the line
(Zaffanella & Deno, 1978) indicates that, for a 525 kV transmission
line (height about 10 m), the field is always less than 1 kV/m at
distances of more than 40 m from the outer conductor, while for a
1050 kV line, which has much higher conductors, the 1 kV/m field
occurs at a distance of about 100 m from the outer conductor.
Typically, where a right-of-way (RoW) is used for a transmission
line of 500 kV or more, it varies from 35 to 70 m, so that electric
fields at the edge of the RoW are of the order of 1 kV/m.
The electric field strengths at and above ground level from
various transmission lines are shown in Fig. 4 (Gary, 1976). The
electric field distribution within various voltage substations is
given in CIGRE (1980).
3.3.3. Magnetic fields near transmission lines
Just as an electric field is always linked with the presence of
charges, a magnetic field always appears when electric current
flows. A static magnetic field is formed in the case of direct
current, whereas time-varying electric and magnetic fields are
induced in the vicinity of alternating current power transmission
systems.
The magnetic field beneath high-voltage overhead transmission
lines is directed mainly transversely to the line axis. The
maximum flux density at ground level may be either on the route
centre line or approximately under the outer conductors, depending
on the phase relationship between the conductors.
Apart from the geometry of the conductor, the maximum magnetic
field strength is determined only by the magnitude of the current.
The maximum magnetic flux density at ground level for the most
common overhead transmission line systems is approximately 0.1
mT/kA (Hylten-Cavalius, 1975).
In contrast to an electric field, a magnetic field is more
penetrating and very difficult to shield. It easily penetrates
human beings and, in the case of an alternating or rotating field,
induces circulating or eddy currents that are not conducted to
ground. The internal voltage differences induced within the body
by a magnetic field from power lines may be as high as 1 mV, if the
magnetic flux density reaches approximately 0.028 mT (Hauf, 1982).
The maximum ground level magnetic field strengths associated
with overhead transmission lines are of the order of 0.01 - 0.05 mT
and are also related to line height. Unlike the electric field,
they are also directly affected by the current carried by the line.
The magnetic flux density decreases in an approximately linear
fashion with distance from the conductor (Lambdin, 1978; Zaffanella
& Deno, 1978).
In principle, these magnetic fields can induce electric
currents in the body and could induce effects via the same
mechanisms as electric field-produced currents. However, for
exposures near a HV transmission line, the smaller magnitude of
these magnetically-induced currents (generally no more than 25% of
the electric field-induced currents) has resulted in little
emphasis on their contribution. The largest current densities
occur at the periphery of the body and they are lower inside. Fig.
5 and 6 show the magnetic field distribution near a HV-transmission
line carrying only about 10% of the typical rated load current for
such lines.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc35.htm#SubSectionNumber:3.3.1
3.3.1 High-voltage transmission lines
The principal man-made sources of ELF are HV transmission
lines, and all devices containing current-carrying wire, including
equipment and appliances in industry and in the home operating at
power frequencies of 50 Hz in most countries and at 60 Hz in North
America.
Electrical energy is transmitted from the power plant, where it
is generated, along conductive, metallic transmission connections
(overhead power lines or underground cables) to substations and
finally to energy consumers.
A typical overhead line (Fig. 2) consists of supporting
structures (transmission towers or pylons) from which the live
conductors are suspended by sets of insulators. Each set of
insulators supports a single conductor or a bundle of two or more
conductors, which carries one electrical phase of the power supply.
The conductors of each phase are suspended far enough away from the
other conductors and the transmission tower to prevent flashover or
short-circuiting between one phase and another, or between the
phases and earth (via the supporting structure). In overhead
lines, the conductors consist of bare metal cables. Thus, any
approach to a live conductor presents a lethal danger due to
flashover and a resulting electric current flow that would precede
actual contact with a conductor.
High voltage lines are operated at standard voltages up to 750
or 765 kV and a line at 1100 kV is operating in the USSR. The
construction of 1000 - 1200 kV or 1500 kV lines is in progress or
at various stages in planning.
Most widely used are alternating current (AC) 3-phase HV lines.
One circuit of the 3-phase line comprises 3 single or 3 sets of
conductors under high-voltage and 1 or 2 grounded conductors that
protect the live conductors against lightning.
Typically, the unperturbed electric field at the height of an
average man, standing at the location of the maximum field (just
outside the outer conductor) of a high-voltage transmission line of
750 kV, is of the order of 10 kV/m. A lower value of about 1 kV/m
exists where the line is highest from the ground (20 m) and about
12 kV/m where it is lowest (13 m) (Zaffanella & Deno, 1978). The
electric field strength is a function of the lateral distance from
the centre of the HV line as shown in Fig. 3.
Occupational exposures that occur near high voltage transmission
lines depend on the worker's location either on the ground, or at
the conductor during live-line work at high potential. When working
under live-line conditions, protective clothing may be used to
reduce the electric field strength and current density in the body
to values similar to those that would occur for work on the ground.
Protective clothing does not weaken the influence of the magnetic
field.
3.3.2. Electric fields near transmission lines and sub-stations
At ground level, beneath high-voltage transmission lines, the
electric fields created have the same frequencies as those carried
by the power lines. The characteristics of these fields depend on
the line voltage, and on the geometrical dimensions and positions
of the conductors of the transmission line. The field intensity
selected for reference or comparison purposes is the undisturbed
ground level electric field strength. To avoid the effects of
vegetation or irregularities in the terrain, the unperturbed field
strength is usually computed or measured at a given height above
ground level (0.5, 1, 1.5, or 1.8 m).
There are several primary influences on the electric field
strength beneath an overhead transmission line. These include:
(a) the height of the conductors above ground (which is
influenced considerably by the ambient temperature
and heating caused by the current passing through the
conductor);
(b) the geometric configuration of conductors and
earthing wires on the towers, and in the case of two
circuits in proximity, the relative phase sequencing;
(c) the proximity of the grounded metallic structure of
the tower;
(d) the proximity of other tall objects (trees, fences,
etc.);
(e) the lateral distance from the centre line of the
transmission line;
(f) the height above ground at the point of measurement;
and
(g) the actual (rather than the nominal) voltage on the
line.
Inside buildings near HV transmission lines, the field
strengths are typically lower than the unperturbed field by a
factor of about 10 - 100, depending on the structure of the
building and the type of materials (Manders & van Nielen, 1981).
Conductor height, geometric configuration, lateral distance
from the line, and the voltage of the transmission line are by far
the most significant factors in considering the maximum electric
field strength at ground level. At lateral distances of about
twice the line height, electric field strength decreases with
distance in an approximately linear fashion. Reference to typical
measured or calculated field contours in the vicinity of the line
(Zaffanella & Deno, 1978) indicates that, for a 525 kV transmission
line (height about 10 m), the field is always less than 1 kV/m at
distances of more than 40 m from the outer conductor, while for a
1050 kV line, which has much higher conductors, the 1 kV/m field
occurs at a distance of about 100 m from the outer conductor.
Typically, where a right-of-way (RoW) is used for a transmission
line of 500 kV or more, it varies from 35 to 70 m, so that electric
fields at the edge of the RoW are of the order of 1 kV/m.
The electric field strengths at and above ground level from
various transmission lines are shown in Fig. 4 (Gary, 1976). The
electric field distribution within various voltage substations is
given in CIGRE (1980).
3.3.3. Magnetic fields near transmission lines
Just as an electric field is always linked with the presence of
charges, a magnetic field always appears when electric current
flows. A static magnetic field is formed in the case of direct
current, whereas time-varying electric and magnetic fields are
induced in the vicinity of alternating current power transmission
systems.
The magnetic field beneath high-voltage overhead transmission
lines is directed mainly transversely to the line axis. The
maximum flux density at ground level may be either on the route
centre line or approximately under the outer conductors, depending
on the phase relationship between the conductors.
Apart from the geometry of the conductor, the maximum magnetic
field strength is determined only by the magnitude of the current.
The maximum magnetic flux density at ground level for the most
common overhead transmission line systems is approximately 0.1
mT/kA (Hylten-Cavalius, 1975).
In contrast to an electric field, a magnetic field is more
penetrating and very difficult to shield. It easily penetrates
human beings and, in the case of an alternating or rotating field,
induces circulating or eddy currents that are not conducted to
ground. The internal voltage differences induced within the body
by a magnetic field from power lines may be as high as 1 mV, if the
magnetic flux density reaches approximately 0.028 mT (Hauf, 1982).
The maximum ground level magnetic field strengths associated
with overhead transmission lines are of the order of 0.01 - 0.05 mT
and are also related to line height. Unlike the electric field,
they are also directly affected by the current carried by the line.
The magnetic flux density decreases in an approximately linear
fashion with distance from the conductor (Lambdin, 1978; Zaffanella
& Deno, 1978).
In principle, these magnetic fields can induce electric
currents in the body and could induce effects via the same
mechanisms as electric field-produced currents. However, for
exposures near a HV transmission line, the smaller magnitude of
these magnetically-induced currents (generally no more than 25% of
the electric field-induced currents) has resulted in little
emphasis on their contribution. The largest current densities
occur at the periphery of the body and they are lower inside. Fig.
5 and 6 show the magnetic field distribution near a HV-transmission
line carrying only about 10% of the typical rated load current for
such lines.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc35.htm#SubSectionNumber:3.3.1
lazarus2405
10 kW
TANSTAAFL.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Think about it. If any of these "free energy" machines really worked, their technology would have been used for decades. Like solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric. Those are the real sources of free energy.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
Think about it. If any of these "free energy" machines really worked, their technology would have been used for decades. Like solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric. Those are the real sources of free energy.
lazarus2405 said:
And they have, they've just been taken black for the exclusive use by the first tier technology users like the military.
Of course it's not really free, it's simply is derived from different 'undiscoverd' (to the rest of us) layer of physics like the zero point.
If this kind of thing got out into the open market it would lay devastation to the world economy.
Mark_A_W
100 kW
This thread should be deleted.
Over unity motors/free energy/alien abductions are a total and utter load of bull$hit.
It is embarrassing that it is being discussed here.
Over unity motors/free energy/alien abductions are a total and utter load of bull$hit.
It is embarrassing that it is being discussed here.
I second that- there is no room for discussing this kind of bullshit. Any physics graduate can demonstrate why any of those supposedly perpetual devices don't work. Discussing those "devices" created by people who mix up Watts and Volts is below any self-respecting member of this forum. Fairies, trolls, pink elephants and perpetual motion devices belong to a forum for teenage girls... Not to insult the teenage girls, though- some of them know quite a bit more in Physics than any of those "inventors", who are delusional at best and con artists most likely.
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