Building The World's Largest Thermal Solar Plant

Kingfish

100 MW
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
4,064
Location
Redmond, WA-USA, Earth, Sol, Orion–Cygnus Arm, Mil
Under Construction: The World's Largest Thermal Solar Plant

28-79a9bc62266006f79380ab0ae654fdc47420a130-s6.jpg


Google Map location of Primm, NV, USA; it's right on the California-Nevada Border off I-15.

...the Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System (ISEGS) will be the "world's largest concentrated solar thermal power plant" when complete at the end of this year.

...Ivanpah Solar will consist of more than 300,000 mirrors directing the sun's energy toward three towers, "creating 392 megawatts of electricity, enough to power 140,000 U.S. homes."

There's room to build more... They should build a DC line between LA and LV and share the load. The video on the Ivanpah home page showing construction processes is quite interesting.

ADDENDUM: I just noticed that if you switch the Google map to Satellite and zoom in you'll be able to see the three towers on the California side of the border between Primm and Nipton. Pretty neat! Incidentally, there's a REE open-pit mine at Mountain Pass just southwest.

Advocate for solar, KF
 
In the Mojave desert, east of Los Angeles, I've driven past the previous SEGs plants. Its the place that's close to southern California, but due to topography, it stays sunny most of the year even when SoCal is cloudy (There is also a desert warfare training facility nearby, Ft Irwin?).

Each time they built one, they learned more and the next one was larger and used an improved design. They used a "thermal battery" of sorts. Solar collection warmed a fluid that was pumped through the heat collection pipes, and the hot fluid was stored in heavily insulated underground tanks. This helped two things. The peak loads the system was designed to help with is the noon-to-sundown electrical power loads (lots of it for air-conditioning). The sun can begin generating usable heat by 9:00 AM, so the thermal battery can harvest heat 3 hours before its needed, and then the system can still generate power for several hours after the sun is too low to be useful.

The second thing the thermal battery does is to ensure steady power generation even when a temporary cloud cover passes over for a few minutes.

images


west-e-j-solar-energy-collectors-segs-plant-mojave-ca.jpg
 
Google earth is really cool nowdays, you can spot huge solar projects all over the SW. Screw the lizards, they can move over a mile.
 
odd how its on the California side to power vegas? somebody is making or saving money
 
Its amazing it took this long to finally get big developments like this. BUT I'm very happy its happening.
 
Everytime I drive past this site I'm amazed and also pleased to see progress happening. Solar makes so much sense in this geographical location because there are over 300 days per year of clear skys. In summer the heat is extremely intense with daytime highs reaching over 115F/45C.

Driving past it again next weekend on my way back to Vegas to do some work.
 
Solar costs less to build and maintain in California. The work costs more but the govt pays for more of it.

When you near the border on the 15, there is a big brown power plant on the east side. That's in Nevada and it sends most of its power to cali. It costs less to burn fossil fuels in Nevada, that's why it's there. My dad was all over that place when it was built installing testing equipment for the company he worked for
 
Massive Solar Plant A Stepping Stone For Future Projects

ivanpah5_wide-f397ba9449d20210276dcf50c3c20d5670a28bde-s40.jpg

The Ivanpah solar project in California's Mojave Desert will be the largest solar power plant of its kind in the world.

The largest solar power plant of its kind is about to turn on in California's Mojave Desert.

The Ivanpah Solar Electric Generating System will power about 140,000 homes and will be a boon to the state's renewable energy goals, but it was no slam dunk. Now, California is trying to bring conservationists and energy companies together to create a smoother path for future projects.

To get the best view of the Ivanpah solar project, you have to go up to the top of a 400-foot concrete tower. Below, close to 200,000 mirrors shimmer across a dry, dusty valley.

"It's very exciting," says Dave Beaudoin, the construction manager for the $2 billion project located about an hour southwest of Las Vegas. Each mirror is about the size of a garage door, and it's mounted on a pole so it can be pointed at the tower.

"We can keep the sun's energy — the rays of the sun — targeted back to the solar tower," Beaudoin says.

All of those mirrors generate about a thousand degrees of heat. It isn't the solar technology most of us think of: dark panels on rooftops. These mirrors heat a giant boiler on top of the tower, where water turns into steam. Beaudoin says that steam powers a turbine that generates electricity.

"This is definitely cutting-edge. It's nothing I've ever done before," he says.

It's been a bumpy road, however, and it took years to get permits from almost a dozen state, federal and local agencies. The project became political fodder after getting a federal loan guarantee, like the bankrupt solar company Solyndra.

And then there's the desert tortoise.

In all, developers found nearly 200 tortoises onsite, many more than expected. Finding and relocating them has cost around $55,000 per tortoise. Critics like Ileene Anderson have watched closely.

"I'm not a big fan of the super large projects," Anderson says.

Anderson is with the Center for Biological Diversity, one of the groups concerned about the loss of desert habitat. She says after California set a goal of getting a third of its electricity from renewable sources by 2020, there was a rush to build big solar farms in the desert.

"Many of the projects, when they were first proposed and we would see the application, see where the map was, it was like: 'Oh no, this is going to be a nightmare project,'" she says.

But other environmental groups saw one reason to support big solar.

"If you care about desert tortoises, you better care about climate change," says Carl Zichella with the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Without some large-scale renewable energy projects, we do not hit our climate goals. We do not replace fossil fuels with clean energy in this country."

These differing views created an uncomfortable "green vs. green" debate, Zichella says. "I think it has been tough. It's been personally painful. We are very good at stopping things, [and] we aren't very good at building things," he says.

In the end, environmental groups negotiated with the Ivanpah project and others one by one to set aside nature preserves in the desert. Learning from this, the state is trying to head off future conflicts with a new plan. The idea is to divvy up the desert into renewable energy zones and zones that are off-limits.

Karen Douglas of the California Energy Commission says it's unusual to see all sides working together.

"There is never any perfect consensus," Douglas says. "But we've got an opportunity with this partnership to put in place what we really think of as the 'greenprint' that will help us conserve our desert resources."

Douglas says other western states like Arizona and Nevada are taking on similar efforts. The Ivanpah solar project will come fully online by the end of the year.

Back in the news again - this time there seems to be a tempest over the tortoise @ $55k per for relocation.

So it makes me wonder: Do tortoises do battle over territory? Do they bite, scratch & claw for mating rights against younger bull tortoi?

I just don't get it. But there it is - your massive project with disaffected tortoises.

And what about Mary Lou? KF
 
wonder why they had to relocate the tortoise. they would like the shade i bet.

if they did not bulldoze the ground into a pancake just to install the posts then there was no need to even bother the natives.

the lasers that locate each post would allow them to just drive up with the drill truck and drill the hole for the post without having to bulldoze the ground first.

sounds like old line construction company in a new line of business.
 
These nut job environmentalists who care so much about the tortoise should be sterilized (to prevent reporduction and therefore the destruction of the environment they love so much) and forced to live without any form of electricity (to save the environment they love so much). $55k per tortoise is just stupid.

The tortoise is found everywhere in that area and up to 100 miles away from there, when I use to ride dirt bike off road near there I would see them all the time.
 
zombiess said:
These nut job environmentalists who care so much about the tortoise should be sterilized (to prevent reporduction and therefore the destruction of the environment they love so much) and forced to live without any form of electricity (to save the environment they love so much). $55k per tortoise is just stupid.

The tortoise is found everywhere in that area and up to 100 miles away from there, when I use to ride dirt bike off road near there I would see them all the time.
LOL when has anytime any amount of money for something done government related in your country been cheep?
In fact if the government is involved its always outrageous.
 
In Ariz., A Solar Plant That Powers 70,000 Homes Day Or Night

NPR said:
Outside Phoenix, Ariz., on Wednesday, a power company turned on one of the largest solar power plants of its kind in the world. But unlike other solar farms, this plant continues giving power to 70,000 Arizona households long after the sunset.

The Solana plant uses 3,200 mirrors that are tilted so they focus the sun's rays to heat a specially-designed oil. That boils water, which drives turbines and generates electricity. Or, the oil can heat giant tanks of salt, which soak up the energy. When the sun goes down, or when households need more power, the hot salt tanks heat up the oil, which again boils water to drive the turbines.

Whereas conventional solar panels only give power when the sun is up, these giant salt batteries give renewable energy on demand. They can store six hours-worth of energy, which can meet the demands of Arizona customers, according to months of test data.

"That's the sort of thing you can do with a conventional gas plant that no one had envisioned doing with renewables," says Patrick Dinkel, vice president of resource management for Arizona Public Service, which is Arizona's largest utility company.

The company has already bought the power from this plant for the next 30 years, to add to the state's goal of generating 15 percent of its energy from renewable sources by 2025. The plant does mean higher energy bills for APS customers — an extra $1.28 per month for the first five years, $1.09 per month for the next five, and then 94 cents per month after that, according to the company. Dinkel says the state won't see a lot more of these plants soon because that would cost too much.

"Right now natural gas wins that race (for cheap power,)" Dinkel says. "The challenge is no one knows what those economics look like in five years."

The U.S. Department of Energy lent Abengoa Solar, the Spanish company that built that plant as well as Europe's first solar thermal power plant, $1.4 billion, out of the $2 billion price tag. It's the same program that financed Solyndra, a solar panel firm that went bankrupt in 2011. But this is a different kind of investment, says Armando Zuluaga, general manager of Abengoa Solar. He points out the company already has a public utility buying their output for the next 30 years, so the government will get its money back with interest.

"There's no market risk here," Zuluaga says. "It's just about getting the plant built."

This won't be the last we hear of Abengoa Solar and this technology. The company is building a similar, though smaller plant in the Mojave desert in California, which will come online next year, as well as plants in South Africa.

Well done. KF 8)
 
Yeah seen these thermal solar plants on discover channel few times now but never in production. Since they don't use volitic cells do they actually produce more electricity? Or less, I under stand they can use the stored heat toountinue to produce power during the night but it would be cool to know they got a way of extracting power from the sun even more efficiently then voltic cells.
 
Kingfish said:
Critics like Ileene Anderson have watched closely.

"I'm not a big fan of the super large projects," Anderson says.

Yeah, SO????

Kingfish said:
Anderson is with the Center for Biological Diversity, one of the groups concerned about the loss of desert habitat. She says after California set a goal of getting a third of its electricity from renewable sources by 2020, there was a rush to build big solar farms in the desert.

"Many of the projects, when they were first proposed and we would see the application, see where the map was, it was like: 'Oh no, this is going to be a nightmare project,'" she says.

But other environmental groups saw one reason to support big solar.

"If you care about desert tortoises, you better care about climate change," says Carl Zichella with the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Without some large-scale renewable energy projects, we do not hit our climate goals. We do not replace fossil fuels with clean energy in this country."

These differing views created an uncomfortable "green vs. green" debate, Zichella says. "I think it has been tough. It's been personally painful. We are very good at stopping things, [and] we aren't very good at building things," he says.

In the end, environmental groups negotiated with the Ivanpah project and others one by one to set aside nature preserves in the desert. Learning from this, the state is trying to head off future conflicts with a new plan. The idea is to divvy up the desert into renewable energy zones and zones that are off-limits.

Karen Douglas of the California Energy Commission says it's unusual to see all sides working together.

It's ALL going to be big projects. A FARM is a big project. World hunger is not about producing more food, something like half the world's food production goes bad because it's not where the hungry people are. But anything to produce food where they ARE is going to be a big project.

So many of these environmentalists have grown accustomed to pouting as a weapon and have painted themselves into a corner.

Kingfish said:
So it makes me wonder: Do tortoises do battle over territory? Do they bite, scratch & claw for mating rights against younger bull tortoi?
KF

Yes they do. And I sort of like that the environmentalists are getting to doing that with other environmentalists. We need a law where they have to fight each other BEFORE they fight the project - The environmental activist playoffs.

The environmentalist cage match.

The Environmentalist DEATH MATCH!

All this talk in a board where the people lean towards favoring the environment. With the recognition that there are those who go too far.
 
^ ??

I don't write the news; I report it. Sometimes with satire when it appears ridiculous.

Don't shoot the messenger. KF :)
 
The towers look tiny. It hardly looks possible for a distant mirror to reflect the mid day sun on to anything but it's neighbour.

Edit: Are they photo-shopped? Look at the shadows. The towers show the sun about to set, but the mountains have a couple of hours left
 
Kingfish said:
^ ??

I don't write the news; I report it. Sometimes with satire when it appears ridiculous.

Don't shoot the messenger. KF :)

Huh? It was the MESSAGE I was talking about. I don't think I'm in your state, if you're hearing gunshots. . . .
 
friendly1uk said:
The towers look tiny. It hardly looks possible for a distant mirror to reflect the mid day sun on to anything but it's neighbour.

Edit: Are they photo-shopped? Look at the shadows. The towers show the sun about to set, but the mountains have a couple of hours left

Nope....that is what it looks like in the desert around here. The low sun might have also been due to a photograph taken in the winter. Not as low as winter sunset on say.......Silloth on Solway at sunset, but low for around here.

:D
 
Another local C"BS" news story that it "opens" today. :roll: Really? Going online or not? Anyone know for sure?
Chomper (my Russian tortoise) celebrated the non-event and his recent coming out of hibernation with a bath. :p
He and his 40 or so local desert cousins in the area will most likely outlive all of us and the solar farm along with the entire grid. :shock:
He cruises around the patio to regulate his body temperature, moving from sunny spots to warmed up rocks and bricks at just the exact time he needs to be there.
Now if I can keep him out of the house with just the screen door. I think he wants to go for a walk to look for his favorite food: dandelions. :lol:
 
Back
Top