Tesla battery packs now being sold for home E-storage

This is definitely something to watch IMHO. Back in the day (15 years ago) my employer was approached many times for ideas on utility demand shifting... as in storing excess night time generating power for reintroduction during daytime peak industrial and air conditioning hours.

Recently I heard, but couldn't prove, that a Texas utility was offering "free" power during night time hours and was willing to buy it back during daylight peak hours. If this is true, and if I was in that utility area, you could bet my garage would be full of "electron storage devices!"

With the capital cost of new generating plants, and the resistance to burning coal and nuclear isotopes, shifting night time generating capacity to the day may well be an economic winner and a place for entrepreneurial advancements... stay tuned!
 
Mr. Moose, you have NOTHING to be humble about. Important that I say that, because this is slightly embarassing for you because you said you couldn't prove the free electricity/buyback angle.

But I guess you could say some of these Texas utility companies have an embarassing problem to deal with: What to do with all that pesky electricity nature keeps giving them. Seems wind turbines produce so much more than they need over night that certain companies got permission to give it away. At least so long as they were allowed to charge more during the day. Sig Siglars win win proposition, right? People are discouraged from using it during the day and encouraged to go off peak hours. Great place to run an autoclave, right? People are even told they could freeze ice at night and melt it during the day to save on electricity. I'm not making this up. I don't recall that Austin is considered windy, Chalo probably doesn't have to deal with this problem. But what about the hill country? The badlands?

So how embarassing in the heart of oil country to have all this talk of everyone should be charging their car overnight. $5 a charge, that's not major opportunism. What IS an opportunity is to have the reversable meter on your solar, running free electricity at night then selling your extra during the day. Gee, I'd sure warm my house up in the winter, though.

I don't think the Tesla batteries are suitable for storage. Sulphur sodium has been working well for that, much cheaper I understand. Then there's this heating coil encased in clay to insulate it so it will stay red hot with little loss for 24 hours, or until you need to hook up the peltier pump and turn it back to electricity. My mother is off grid solar with a propane generator that runs a lot, I'm always looking for a replacement for the lead acid cells. Pretty much any time I go there I'm putting water in.

I also try to convince her to get the wind generator. Winter, the wind makes such a racket on her roof, I tell her the generator doesn't have to be running. Can't seem to embarass her into getting one.

Wait a minute, I could get mom to buy some Tesla batteries to experiment on using in the solar shed, then wind up telling her that without just the right BMS tuned to her use, this is a fire hazard. "Don't worry Ma, I'll get these out of here so the fire danger is GONE. I'll think of SOMETHING to do with them. . . ." The mother must be Queen, for the son to be such a prince.
 
For a home or apartment building, i had read some things a while back indicating that a vanadium redox liquid flow battery would work well, but...I haven't found anyone who is posting about doing that.

There must be a reason why not, or a better option cost/performance wise...
 
Hi,

http://qz.com/151801/why-solarcity-and-tesla-are-going-to-replace-your-utility
Millions of California homeowners and businesses have installed solar panels on their roofs to generate their own electricity. Now a small but growing number of them want to pull the plug on their utilities by storing that energy in batteries and tap that power when the sun isn’t shining. And that has set off a fight over who will ultimately control the state’s power grid—California’s three big monopoly utilities or their customers empowered by companies like SolarCity and Tesla Motors.

SolarCity, the Silicon Valley solar installer, has quietly begun to offer some homeowners a lithium-ion battery pack made by electric carmaker Tesla to store electricity generated by their rooftop photovoltaic arrays. Stem, another Silicon Valley company, will sell or lease a $100,000, 54-kilowatt-hour battery pack to businesses so they can arbitrage the grid by storing electricity when rates are cheap and then using that energy when they’re high.

The state’s utilities, however, are refusing to hook up solar-powered batteries and other home energy storage systems to the grid without charging connection fees that can run $800 or more. Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric argue that homeowners that cut the cord will saddle other customers with the cost of maintaining the transmission system. (In a preliminary ruling issued in October, regulators ordered the utilities to connect solar battery systems for free while the issue is sorted out.)

But SolarCity customers like Marco Krapels pose a far more existential threat to a century-old power system. Six years ago Krapels put a 2.4-kilowatt solar panel array on the roof of his Marin County, California home. Last April, SolarCity installed a 10-kilowatt-hour Tesla battery in his garage to store electricity generated by the panels. “I should technically be able to function with solar and just the battery indefinitely as long as the sun shines,” Krapels, a renewable energy financer, told me as he stood by his Tesla Model S electric sports sedan. “I don’t want to have to buy power from PG&E at peak rates, I want to use my own power. You see this power line going from the street to my house? I look forward to the day when I cut that wire.”

It certainly makes economic sense for Krapels to do that, especially as a hedge against rising electricity rates. State subsidies pay 60% of the cost of the Tesla battery and Krapels leases the system for less than $40 a month. That’s even less than his lease payments to SolarCity for his solar array. So far SolarCity has signed up more than 300 customers for its solar battery system, according to Peter Rive, the company’s co-founder. As of July 1, there were 667 applications for energy storage systems in California that could store 33 megawatts of electricity, according to the state Public Utilities Commission.

So just how much a threat do SolarCity and Tesla pose to utility hegemony? Time will tell but a look at the companies combined market cap compared to those of the parent companies of California’s Big Three utilities should give utility executives pause. So should the fact that a Tesla Model S battery pack can store six to eight times the electricity of the Tesla home unit. It’s relatively simple to engineer car batteries to store solar electricity and provide power to a home on demand, say at night, when the car is parked in the garage.
Sounds like, in Nor Cal you could lease the Tesla battery pack for $40 per month minus a $24 month subsidy or $16 per month net. If you have good sun getting Solar PV and setting up a big pack and pulling the plug on Pacific Gas & Electric sounds great! :D :mrgreen:
 
Ah yes, the'Million solar roof' initiative. They're supposed to be about out of money, let's see if they're refunded.

http://www.txu.com/en/residential/customer-care/frequently-asked-questions/txu-energy-free-nights.aspx

Hard to search and get links with the phone, I get mobile pages that say nothing and might not work on your computer. Here's one company.

http://www.txu.com/en/residential/promotions/mass/plan-free-nights-weekends.aspx?PromoCode=ONFRE132&WT.mc_id=ONLBAN13Q2FREENIGHTSHOMEPAGE

I'm finding the naysayers with all the 'It's just a gimmick' nonsense, of course you have to pay something for electricity service. Like any intelligent capitalist, I realize a company serves me best by being reliable and alleviating shortages. In the socialist system where the pricesare not allowed to rise (Yet they do, they DO) there's a perpetual state of shortage. How nice that the capitalist government in Texas allows them to make use of this nonfossil fuel energy.
 
Hi,

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/12/03/3010981/electric-vehicle-powers-buildings/
Nissan is taking its electric vehicle to the next level, pioneering a new system that will enable companies to regulate their electricity bills by tapping into the electric vehicles their employees are driving to work.

The “Vehicle-To-Building” technology allows up to six Nissan Leafs to be connected to an office building’s power distribution board, the Daily Fusion reported. At peak hours, when energy demand is at its highest and electricity is most expensive, the building draws power from the cars. When demand slows and electricity is cheaper, it flows the other way. No matter how much electricity they provide, the system ensures the Nissan Leafs are fully charged by the end of the day for their owners to drive home.

The U.S. military has a pilot program in place that tries out this kind of system, known as vehicle-to-grid, on several domestic bases using its growing fleet of electric vehicles. It earned more than enough revenue to cover the cost of leases for electric vehicles, while providing reliability and secure power backup.

Nissan has conducted a successful field test of the Vehicle-To-Building system and has been using it at the company’s Advanced Technology Center in Atsugi City, Japan since July. According to the Daily Fusion, “the facility benefited from a reduction of 25.6 kW during peak summer periods by controlling the charging time of the electric cars, with no impact on the workers’ daily commute.”

And the results have been significant. The facility achieved a “2.5 percent reduction of electrical power use during peak hours, a saving of nearly 500,000 Yen (approx. $4,900) per year in electrical power cost (based on current Tokyo Electric Power Company’s rates).”

Nissan’s latest endeavor is an offshoot of its “Leaf-To-Home” system, which helps stabilize the electrical grid by charging the vehicle at night, when energy demand is low, or with electricity provided by solar panels. Additionally, it “can be used as back-up power source in emergency situations if there are power outages and/or shortages by providing the stored electricity held in the Nissan Leaf’s onboard batteries,” according to Green Car Congress.

Improving energy storage is critical to fostering the growth of renewable energy. As more renewable energy systems are added to the electrical grid, they need to be supported by better energy storage systems — and that’s where technologies like the Nissan battery can play a key role. And after a price cut of $6,400 earlier this year, the company is striving to make the emissions-free vehicle (and its cutting-edge technology) more accessible to consumers.
 
spinningmagnets said:
For a home or apartment building, i had read some things a while back indicating that a vanadium redox liquid flow battery would work well, but...I haven't found anyone who is posting about doing that.

There must be a reason why not, or a better option cost/performance wise...


Corrosion problems still plague most flow battery designs.
 
Way back I thought of the idea of peoples homes using all the attic roof space to store really large capacitors to store daytime solar power for night time use.
I remember seeing a basic spray can sized capacitor once and thinking why not make some huge ones.. A lot of homes have huge water tanks now so what about a water tank sized capacitor. Any one willing to do the math and see how much power that could hold?
 
The VRFB's need to keep below 1.7v differential or their is a substantial cliff in coulombic efficiency, i.e. gas production and corrosion. I haven't found any data for the hydrchloric and sulfuric acid electrolyte mixture PNNL came up with. Considerably more energy density and operating temp with their electrolyte but with corrosion the life cycle cost is not economical.
 
Back
Top