Solar power

wagneral

1 mW
Joined
Jun 25, 2013
Messages
11
I am curious about solar power through seasons, as I live in Wisconsin, and right now it is below zero. I am wanting to install renewables (i.e. solar charging) in the future here, but was curious if anyone had any hard data on an average draw and output they had seen in their own installs, in a climate similar to here. Any words of wisdom!

-Al
 
run a google search "solar angle" there are several sites and softwares the you can punch in your location, and it will give you the solar path for the year as well as any given day, most installs pick an average so you can get decent output throughout the year,

my take on it is that solar the way is comercially done is outrageous, too complicated and too expensive to make sense, first you need to look at your load and start cutting back if there is as much as one incandecent bulb in your house you are not ready for solar yet.

second, the whole concept of having all apliances run on 115v ac is centralisation at its finest, it does not go well with self sufficient, for example lighting LED's run at aprox 3.5v dc, the comercial ones at HD have a power supply built in to feed them from the 115v line therefore they are prohibitively expensive, further more most solar panels have an open voltage rating of 18 v pretty standard stuff to charge a standard 12v lead acid batery, comercially that gets inverted to 115v and than the LED's power supply turns it back to 3.5v, so much for efficiency and all that equipment is not cheap.

one project I want to do is have my lights rewired for LED's solar power totally separated from the grid and the rest of the house, the concept is to make my own solar panels, I saw it done for savings sake but the reason I am interested in it:
a solar cell has 0.5v nominal output in full sun, normally they arange them in series to get the 18 v, about 36 of them, if you build your own you could do a 10S for a nominal 5v open circuit, this should be just right to charge say a 20 AH lifepo4 which ranges between 3.2v to 3.6 v perfect for LED lighting, I was planning on ordering lots of bright White LEDs and make my own lights, I even ment to start a thread but been bit bussy, maybe you can take it from here, the Idea is to have totally sustainable lighting completely off grid and they would last forever, it should also eliminate the need for inverters and expensive comercial LEDs,

further more there are refrigerators that run on 24v dc and camper microwaves, I was looking at the nuwave induction cookers, your laptop could be charged directly on solar your LED tv has a built in power supply I am pretty sure it runns on low voltage DC, I am planing a new house build where the entire electric will be thought out in this manner, no sense generating PV 12v DC run it through expensive inverters and large battery banks and then stepped down to DC again to run a laptop, a more decentralised aproach would be a lot more cost effective, you should put your money toward more pannels rather than inverters and charge contollers

just my take on it.

George
 
Thanks for the info! We have a pedal pub nearly finished, with battery racks beneath the deck for the electric assist, and are hoping to let people charge their cellphones/laptops via solar panels, and assuming a general 1500 watt-hrs/day generated for a handful of laptops and cellphones...keep you updated!

-Al
 
I just put up a little system just for lights. The new trend is micro-inverters mounted on each panel. Send 220 volt staight to your house panel. Mine is just a 12v -battery system. My controller has a lighting/load controller built in. There is really good calc tools on the web.http://pvwatts.nrel.gov/
 

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Giovanni LiCalsi said:
You may want to look at windmills. You can check average wind speeds in your zip code.

I will second that, I live in Michigan and I would much rather investigate a gorlov type Wawt first, got plenty of wind and it blows 24/7, though the nature of a windmill has a variable output compared to solar at high noon but overall day and night regardless of season it will have a much more dependable output
 
wagneral said:
I am curious about solar power through seasons, as I live in Wisconsin, and right now it is below zero. I am wanting to install renewables (i.e. solar charging) in the future here, but was curious if anyone had any hard data on an average draw and output they had seen in their own installs, in a climate similar to here. Any words of wisdom!

-Al

Check out this site for local PV info:
http://www.nrel.gov/rredc/pvwatts/
 
The reason why micro-inverters are used on each panel is if one panel is underperforming, the rest of the string will not be lowered in efficiency. Sometimes you may get shading from neighbor's trees and a few panels can underperform. The micro-inverters can also send live stream data from each panel for warranty purposes.
 
first thing to do would be to develop conservation psychology and get the electric bill down to 300kWh/month, then down to 240, and see if you can get under 200kWh/month. that is where investments can pay off most. led lights would payout better than a solar panel at your latitude imo.

the current propane shortage will be fleeting once the winter is over. fortunately for you the propane pipelines are already in the ground so your locality will be able to restore stocks eventually. imagine if your suppliers could not get propane from a pipeline because the luddites had blocked it from being built like they do now.
 
Yep, all the energy efficient house articles say that in the first paragraph. Pick the low hanging efficiency fruit first. Insulate better and such, even if it's just the plastic shit on the inside of your windows each winter. I don't know about your climate, but in my climate solar thermal is the cheap solar power. I have it on my house.

If serious about running less panels for electric needs, then you go to led lights, better insulated refrigerators, and light switches that easily cut off the vampire load from electronic stuff not in use. Nice to have one switch on the wall that cuts off certain plugs in the house rather than digging for than plug strip switch.

A friend of mine has serious money, and put the micro inverter panels on his roof. It's way better than the usual set up. Very cool to sit at the computer, and see exactly which panel is shaded at the moment. This works for grid tie, not for an off grid PV setup. If one inverter has an issue, the power keeps flowing from the rest of the panels. Low losses in the wire with all the long runs being AC rather than DC. No need for long runs of more expensive wire for DC.
 
wagneral said:
I am curious about solar power through seasons, as I live in Wisconsin, and right now it is below zero. I am wanting to install renewables (i.e. solar charging) in the future here, but was curious if anyone had any hard data on an average draw and output they had seen in their own installs, in a climate similar to here. Any words of wisdom!

I live off-grid since last year is somewhere in the middle of Canada so quite cold.
My setup and house are a bit unusual since I have put a huge accent on energy efficiency so my heat and electricity needs are extremely low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3g4gmRvgko
I will take some real readings once I finalize my Solar BMS that will be able to do data logging.
My monthly electricity usage is around 60 to 100kWh/month and production from 3x240W + 2x85W solar PV panels and a small 300W wind turbine is around 100 to 140kWh/month
As soon as I can afford I will use solar PV also for heating since is the least expensive option available (Only solar PV panels no battery the power from PV converted to heat with resistive elements and stored in my insulated slab on grade with a heat storage capacity of around 100kWh) My house only requires 1000kWh/mount of heat in the worst winter month that is about 10x less than an average house in North America so not really a good example if you do not build a new house at the same standards.
 
Heat powered by PV panels....? Dude the energy loss is tremendous! Go with vacuum tube solar heating if you want to heat water or home? WTF?
 
electrodacus said:
wagneral said:
I am curious about solar power through seasons, as I live in Wisconsin, and right now it is below zero. I am wanting to install renewables (i.e. solar charging) in the future here, but was curious if anyone had any hard data on an average draw and output they had seen in their own installs, in a climate similar to here. Any words of wisdom!

I live off-grid since last year is somewhere in the middle of Canada so quite cold.
My setup and house are a bit unusual since I have put a huge accent on energy efficiency so my heat and electricity needs are extremely low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3g4gmRvgko
I will take some real readings once I finalize my Solar BMS that will be able to do data logging.
My monthly electricity usage is around 60 to 100kWh/month and production from 3x240W + 2x85W solar PV panels and a small 300W wind turbine is around 100 to 140kWh/month
As soon as I can afford I will use solar PV also for heating since is the least expensive option available (Only solar PV panels no battery the power from PV converted to heat with resistive elements and stored in my insulated slab on grade with a heat storage capacity of around 100kWh) My house only requires 1000kWh/mount of heat in the worst winter month that is about 10x less than an average house in North America so not really a good example if you do not build a new house at the same standards.

i agree with wineboy, use some kinda drain down hot water panels that can be empty when it is below freezing but you can run a small pump to get a tiny trickle of water though the panels when the sun is out. use a regular hot water storage tank to store the hot water. solar hot water is best in the summer but most of us don't take as many baths in the winter anyway. maybe once e week or so. so the need for solar gain in the winter is lowest, highest in the summer.

but you already got the biggest problem solved if you got your consumption under 100kWh/month. that is remarkable imo. you deserve some credit for getting there. best i can do is about 240kWh/mth and blow it out on A/C sometimes in the summer. hehe. way cool. but look for used hot water solar panels on CL. i got a bunch for less than the cost of copper scrap. 300lb panels for $80 each. the kennametal panels too. my fav score.

also you can consider using propane as the heat source for a flow through boiler to heat water in the winter when solar is not available. you will have to hack the pressure spring in the gas valve so it works at low hydraulic flow rates since you have low pump volumes from the battery powered pump. but i can help with that since i once had to hack a Paloma to do that myself. you would pump through the flowthrough boiler from your storage tank and then return the heated water to the top of the tank. your little DC pump could do that. so the boiler could supplement your solar when it was needed.

now, to rub it in. i found a flow through boiler, propane, in the dumpster of the grow shop that closed across the street. it is 16k btu, 3" vent. it would be perfect for your situation. lemme know if you are interested and maybe we can figure a way to give it to someone traveling your way and they can haul it there. brand new. right off the showroom floor into the dumpster. retail $800?
 
I am looking into building something similar I enjoyed your video, rather interesting build, must be permafrost under there, for heat solar collectors look very interesting there's the evacuated glass tube , probably would do better than any electric heat you can rig up, if you are going to go that route, a windmill might be a better choice, looks pretty flat up there, and AC travels better, you could hook it all up into a radiant heater no bateries.

as fo solar colectors, my thought was to go to the junkyard, I have a background as a grease monkey, and get a bunch of AC condensers, preferably off the same make and model, they are black allready and the lines are thin, I would use coolant through them, in my build I was considering radiant floors powered by such a setup.
 
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