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Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Feb 13 2014 5:48pm
by Joseph C.
Funny Looking Tower Generates 600% More Electrical Energy Than Traditional Wind Turbines

The Sheerwind wind turbine promises to produce 6 times the electrical power than traditional wind turbines.
This funny looking wind tower acts like a funnel, directing the wind from any angle, down through a tube to a ground based turbine generator. The funneling of the wind through a narrow passage effectively creates a “jet effect” increasing the velocity of the wind, while lowering the pressure. This is called the Venturi Effect. This speeds up the wind turbine mounted inside the narrowest portion and generates electricity.
As such it can capture and generate electricity at a much lower wind speed than current wind power technologies.
The idea is so simple, so elegant, and promises to produce so much more energy at lower cost and more efficiently, that it might just be the answer to many problems with current wind turbine technology. Aside from the lower capital investment to get started, and increased efficiency and power generation, it also might be a solution to the ever growing problem of birds (and bats) being killed by traditional wind farms. (Yes, that is a problem)
This technology is not really new in the science of fluid dynamics, however this is a new way to generate electricity, and if successful, promises to grow the wind energy in a more eco-friendly way than ever thought possible.
Imagine a smaller HOME version on your off grid cabin. Now THAT is cool off grid tech!

http://www.offgridworld.com/funny-looki ... -turbines/




Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Feb 20 2014 1:00am
by Kris B Krunch
Wow, that's really interesting.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Feb 20 2014 1:47am
by liveforphysics
It seems like in a brisk wind it would be much worse than a conventional 3 blade prop.

Interesting concept.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 13 2014 8:22am
by Punx0r
It does seem like it'd be more efficient to just design a wind turbine that works at 10mph?

Unless there's some overall advantage to using a high velocity turbine.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 15 2014 4:53pm
by Drunkskunk
I wonder how much energey is being lost in capturing, changing direction, and compressing the air to achieve the higher velocity?

Seems like it would be a lot more efficent to just build a low speed wind power generator.



Slightly off topic, looking for a good example of a non turbine low speed wind generator I found this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... nd/4224763

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 27 2014 10:07pm
by electrodacus
:)

You can know from the title is just not possible.
First a traditional vertical wind turbine will get over 40% efficiency and that is really close to the max theoretical efficiency Benz limit of 59%
So not even 2x is possible.
Then this turbine will be way less cost effective maybe by a factor of 6x :) and that is more important than the actual efficiency.
I just hope no one got scammed in investing in this design except for the initial designer :)

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 28 2014 12:12am
by Dauntless
Not so fast. You're only referring to running in optimal conditions. This thing claims to generate electricity at barely a breeze conditions when the regular bladed turbine will be doing NOTHING. The OC in Southern California usually isn't still, but good solid winds to run the normal turbine aren't so common. This thing may go beyond 6X compared to the normal turbine if it was here. I'd have to learn more to say that for sure.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 28 2014 6:18am
by spinningmagnets
After quite a bit of study over at otherpower.com, I was dismayed to find out that a lot of wind "goes around" a turbine when the generator gets loaded and a low battery it is charging puts up some resistance to the blades turning.

View the turbine at the bottom of this funnel as a restriction:...sure...it spins, but it is not free-flowing. Even with a low-speed wind being "captured" by the clever Omni-directional funnel-structure, it will build up some pressure in front of the turbine, and some of the wind will go around the funnel inlets.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 28 2014 6:38am
by friendly1uk
Is there any point speeding up the wind if it gets proportionally thinner. I guess so at 2mph. At normal speeds this is looking a little wasteful.

Wish I had time to study it further. I'm off wind power though. I think we are going to cover the globe then realise the days are getting longer and we are changing orbit. What other result could there be.

Wind generation seems to be the generating boards answer, but I see better value from solar. It captures solar energy that would otherwise heat the planet further. Solar seems like the cure, and wind a problem. I don't really know what solar collects though. I just imagine it's an energetic particle so will warm us further

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 29 2014 3:25am
by doctorGONZO
Drunkskunk wrote:I wonder how much energey is being lost in capturing, changing direction, and compressing the air to achieve the higher velocity?

Seems like it would be a lot more efficent to just build a low speed wind power generator.



Slightly off topic, looking for a good example of a non turbine low speed wind generator I found this:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science ... nd/4224763

Kinetic energy is calculated on the basis of the mass of the moving body times the velocity SQUARED of the body. Someone harvesting wind energy finds much more energy in faster air.

Ek = 1/2 mv^2

The structural wind load required by the local building department for the turbine and its tower will be based on a tornado like wind. Therefore the expense will be based on the turbine being in a strong wind. It would be extremely cost inefficient to plan to harvest 2 MPH wind after you have paid for a structure and a generator that must survive a 100 MPH or faster wind.

Any kind of guide that captures the wind and redirects it must cause friction that takes energy away. So any kind of a curvy swervy thingy will apply LESS WIND KINETIC ENERGY to the generator itself than if the generator was up out in the open air and large enough to engage the amount of energy wanted.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 29 2014 3:37am
by doctorGONZO
spinningmagnets wrote:After quite a bit of study over at otherpower.com, I was dismayed to find out that a lot of wind "goes around" a turbine when the generator gets loaded and a low battery it is charging puts up some resistance to the blades turning.

View the turbine at the bottom of this funnel as a restriction:...sure...it spins, but it is not free-flowing. Even with a low-speed wind being "captured" by the clever Omni-directional funnel-structure, it will build up some pressure in front of the turbine, and some of the wind will go around the funnel inlets.

"Regular" windmill generators that have a tail fin and are mounted on a swivel bearing turn round to always be facing the wind. It is old well established technology. Back in the 1930s most farms had such a windmill generator before the Federal Government provided centrally generated powerline electricity to rural areas.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 29 2014 3:49am
by doctorGONZO
Dauntless wrote:Not so fast. You're only referring to running in optimal conditions. This thing claims to generate electricity at barely a breeze conditions when the regular bladed turbine will be doing NOTHING. The OC in Southern California usually isn't still, but good solid winds to run the normal turbine aren't so common. This thing may go beyond 6X compared to the normal turbine if it was here. I'd have to learn more to say that for sure.

Thats a good point. In a neighborhood where the wind is almost always 2 MPH or slower, some kind of a big curvy wind catcher might actually do better than a "regular" windmill even if the regular one is especially designed for the extra-slow wind. BUT you are going to get a really small amount of energy out of a 2 MPH wind. Because a 2 MPH wind only contains a really small amount of kinetic energy. You will pay big bucks for the generator and the big wind catcher and get only enough power to light one LED. Or maybe two if it is your lucky day.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 29 2014 11:54am
by molybdenum
For sure, this wouldn't be as efficient as a traditional turbine in higher winds. Building a turbine to work in 2-10mph winds would require a very lightweight design with large surface area blades which would be prone to damage in storms. For those areas where higher wind speeds are rare, this concept (if it works) would be of benefit. Anyways, I can see some advantages to this design in spite of energy losses concentrating the wind:

- Potentially a more attractive design than big propellers. Who wants to see big props everywhere.
- Could be built on a smaller scale and incorporated into the rooftops of houses, which tend to accelerate winds over their sloped roof apexes.
- noise control?. Large turbines tend to be noisy. noise would be concentrated near the outlet lower to the ground. Noise is one of the most frequent complaints from those living near large wind turbines.
- Install mesh for a bird friendly design.
- stackable?

my $0.02

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Mar 30 2014 1:36pm
by Punx0r
friendly1uk wrote:Is there any point speeding up the wind if it gets proportionally thinner. I guess so at 2mph. At normal speeds this is looking a little wasteful.

Wish I had time to study it further. I'm off wind power though. I think we are going to cover the globe then realise the days are getting longer and we are changing orbit. What other result could there be.

Wind generation seems to be the generating boards answer, but I see better value from solar. It captures solar energy that would otherwise heat the planet further. Solar seems like the cure, and wind a problem. I don't really know what solar collects though. I just imagine it's an energetic particle so will warm us further
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Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 01 2014 11:38pm
by veloman
Does a tree disipate wind energy? Yes. Energy is used up as friction on the leaves, etc. So you can have millions of wind turbines and its no different than some other obstacle like a mtn, building, cow in the field.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 03 2014 4:59pm
by friendly1uk
Punx0r wrote:
friendly1uk wrote:Is there any point speeding up the wind if it gets proportionally thinner. I guess so at 2mph. At normal speeds this is looking a little wasteful.

Wish I had time to study it further. I'm off wind power though. I think we are going to cover the globe then realise the days are getting longer and we are changing orbit. What other result could there be.

Wind generation seems to be the generating boards answer, but I see better value from solar. It captures solar energy that would otherwise heat the planet further. Solar seems like the cure, and wind a problem. I don't really know what solar collects though. I just imagine it's an energetic particle so will warm us further
index.jpg
Not at all. I'm sure I said I'm just disinterested. I only saw the pic briefly and replied to a comment I still don't see. Not because I'm daft, I can tell you that eventually along your way of thinking (presuming you understand) that your air will go so fast, and carry so much energy, that it won't turn the turbine at all. But it is just physics for physicians. Here it seems that saying the wind looses mass is rather wrong, which is my statement. We have infact made denser air at a higher speed, not air with a lower mass. Although it is air with a lower mass on a molecular level. It's just a funnel isn't it?

I didn't bother with physics at school, which was nowhere near this level. Getting a few things wrong does not make me 'blown away' at all. That is the feeling when women leave me. I mean...why... I'm seriously blown away by that lol. Did I get anything wrong though? I guess your not going to know. I won't insult you though. Just no need for it... You can have a different viewpoint that was handed to you if you wish. I very much doubt you can engage me in anything of interest here. Just post pics, perhaps trying to level up? I notice elsewhere your spell checking me lol

Nothing blows me away except loss. Anything else I can master. I do get things wrong though, we all do.



Cows are in a very different air stream. These things are tall to get into the air unaffected by ground turbulence. It is virgin territory. The cows air is already turning with the planet, iirc it's called ground air, and the tall turbines extend this layer higher.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 04 2014 5:00am
by Punx0r
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that your mind was "blown". It was my mind that was "blown" by reading your post. I made several attempts at typing a reply but just couldn't quite capture my reaction in words.

I had only just managed to piece my mind back together when I read your last post and you re-blew it. Dangit!

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 04 2014 5:08am
by Punx0r
Right, I'm off to the Doctors to brush on Bernoulli's Principle :)

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 04 2014 9:48pm
by Dauntless
Bernoulli didn't learn it at the doctor, he learned it in the sewer. What a thing to be staring at in fascination.

Just to be 'Divergent,' maybe you could post some haunting picture. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/0 ... 85953.html

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 28 2014 7:39pm
by BiGH
Couple of thoughts when looking at this. it seems like there should be a bit of a lip going into the turbine. - if air was moving fast enough wouldn't this direct more into the turbine itself vs going around the edges?

Also mounting a Vertical axis wind turbine (or prop one) on top of the structure may be a good idea

and why not have the exhaust air directed back to the input would need to see if this caused a negative or positive effect or not.

another idea would be to use variable geometry blades to manage backpressure/efficiency.

anyways that's my thoughts while sitting at work doing other things.

please excuse the crude drawing.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 28 2014 7:40pm
by BiGH
oh and if using a VAWT put solar panels on top of that :P

Green energy stack!

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 28 2014 9:04pm
by LockH
Ermmm... Right now, ten hits on ES for the word "savonius".

Just a thought.
L

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Apr 29 2014 1:45am
by Samd
Betz limit says a physical wind turbine is about 50% efficient. Add an alternator at say 70% efficient means an overall efficiency of about 0.5*0.7=35%. Give or take that's about what we get when we build them.

Six times more efficient than 35%?
mmm, ~200% efficiency - take all the time you need....
But I call bullshit.

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Jun 11 2018 12:03pm
by LockH
Hehe... How to suck "free" energy from large, fast moving vehicles...

Enlil Vertical Axis Wind Turbine


:wink:

Re: Windturbine: 6X More Efficient and Much Cheaper

Posted: Jun 19 2018 8:06am
by craneplaneguy
Bogus click bait, like an electric car startup claiming "1000 mile range, 15 minutes recharge rate, 200 mph top speed"! This is an old scheme I've seen before, and it was BS then also.