Portable Solar Panels

K

kingb

10 mW
Joined
May 2, 2014
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20
THIS IS FOR EBIKE

Been looking at these panels: http://www.ecospeed.com/portable-solar-charging-solution-is-here/ and salivating... :shock:

Wondering if anyone knows of similar portable panels that are cheaper.
Anything that is capable of charging an ebike lithium battery (24V don't know other specs but one that could last about 30 miles average) up in less than 8 hours. (the $1250 one in the link claims 4.5 hours which would be ideal but by the time I order a battery and kit I will be pretty strapped for cash).

In fact I would be interested to hear what anyone has to say about any tips regarding portable solar power and ebikes. Thanks!
 
It just occurred to me that the Adaptto controller is perfect for solar charging efficiently, as it can step up voltage to match the pack. Ideally you might have enough cells to hit that, but, it gives you the option to program wiggle room on the fly (eg. 90% charge) and efficiently use your solar power. Though not while the motor is running... which would be truly ideal...

I've always lusted after the idea of a tilting, high clearance, delta FWD ~750w mid-drive torque-sensing velomobile with loads of cargo space and flexible solar cells safely enameled onto the fiberglass fairing. Because I could camp wherever the hell I want, however far away... I mean really, what a great touring vehicle!?

Best bet, have a dedicated meter and run the panels DC output directly into the pack bms. I know the cheap bms in my Cellman pack allows charging and running simultaneously...
 
If you want charge into a 24v system while driving with flexible solar panels.
Than u are looking for a MPPT Solar Charge Controller.
Tracer are good watch for "1210RN Tracer MPPT" :mrgreen:
 
thanks for the replies,
still a bit confused. It looks like the zamp system comes with a controller or are you talking about the ebike controller? (I am new to all this electric stuff :? )

I would not be charging while riding if i got the zamp system (pretty big and not flexible material), but if anyone could recommend one that I could drape over my pack on the back rack that would be desirable...

I am confused because I have head that in order to charge the ebike lithium batteries, you need to connect the panel through a different battery first, with an inverter involved as well. (The first link says that model had a special built in thingy so you could plug panel directly into battery, which you normally can't do) Basically I want to know if I get that setup I mentioned or a similar one, what all will I need to carry along with me besides the panel and the solar controller?

Thanks
 
Sounds like that panel uses a DC-DC converter instead of a DC--> AC --> DC setup where you convert it to standard 110, then back down to DC with a standard charger which wastes a ton of power. There aren't many people who use solar on their vehicles or packed with them, here. My point with the Adaptto motor controller is that it has the ability to charge from any DC input with lower voltage than your pack.
 
xenodius said:
Sounds like that panel uses a DC-DC converter instead of a DC--> AC --> DC setup where you convert it to standard 110, then back down to DC with a standard charger which wastes a ton of power. There aren't many people who use solar on their vehicles or packed with them, here. My point with the Adaptto motor controller is that it has the ability to charge from any DC input with lower voltage than your pack.
Click to expand...

Ahhh, I see. That would be very nice to get, do you have a link?
 
Nice looking set ups but way too expensive.
The price of solar panels is around a dollar a watt or less. Roof top panels are framed with aluminum which makes them too thick to fold into a convenient package but unframed panels are available. These are called laminates and because they are unframed they are more fragile, but they are tougher than you think. They would do fine in a heavy canvas fold up package like the first one you linked.
There are also flexible panels that can actually be rolled up. The company that comes to mind is Unisolar. When I was researching the flexible panels were not as efficient as the glass enclosed mono and polycrystalline type.
As far as the controller goes, all you really need is a panel with peak voltage around 20-30% higher than your battery's full charge voltage and an adjustable DC to DC converter to dial the output in to match your packs needs. A quick search on EBay will bring up hundreds of choices for these but make sure you find one that will handle the current that your panel puts out. This will be a simple bulk charging situation so you would need to closely monitor your battery, preferably with a cell checker so you can see the level on each section of the pack.
I bought a pallet of laminate panels several years ago from http://www.sunelec.com for an amazing fifty cents per watt. They have turned out to be good panels and it was well worth the trouble of framing them for the price.
 
i found the best deals for solar panels on CL. people who need to get rid of the panels they had or in some cases panels they bot extra in order to buy an entire pallet to get a price and shipping break. local CL, less than $1/W for the Sharp panels. i haven't looked recently but i would expect that is the cheapest source.
 
Hwy89 said:
Nice looking set ups but way too expensive.
The price of solar panels is around a dollar a watt or less. Roof top panels are framed with aluminum which makes them too thick to fold into a convenient package but unframed panels are available. These are called laminates and because they are unframed they are more fragile, but they are tougher than you think. They would do fine in a heavy canvas fold up package like the first one you linked.
There are also flexible panels that can actually be rolled up. The company that comes to mind is Unisolar. When I was researching the flexible panels were not as efficient as the glass enclosed mono and polycrystalline type.
As far as the controller goes, all you really need is a panel with peak voltage around 20-30% higher than your battery's full charge voltage and an adjustable DC to DC converter to dial the output in to match your packs needs. A quick search on EBay will bring up hundreds of choices for these but make sure you find one that will handle the current that your panel puts out. This will be a simple bulk charging situation so you would need to closely monitor your battery, preferably with a cell checker so you can see the level on each section of the pack.
I bought a pallet of laminate panels several years ago from http://www.sunelect.com for an amazing fifty cents per watt. They have turned out to be good panels and it was well worth the trouble of framing them for the price.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! That sounds awesome, Im very excited about this. I will definitely need to do a lot more research but what you mentioned will definitely get me started. The battery I will be charging will probably be a 36V 30Ah. If I could figure something out where I could get a full charge from morning till mid-afternoon (like 4-6 hours, idk if thats possible) and then be ready to ride through the evening to my next campsite that would be ideal.
 
kingb said:
just found this: http://www.solardealz.com/120-Watt-...zs-120-p.htm?gclid=CNvk-tXxjr4CFY17fgod-3IADQ

I really don't know too much about solar yet, would this provide the same power as the first one i linked to?
Click to expand...

Like has been stated before, this only has a charge controller for 12v batteries, not of any use to your setup.

Here are the basics. A solar panel puts out x volts at x amps and will keep putting out that as long as the sun is shining. The problem with this is, if you hook up directly to a battery and don't monitor it, the battery will be overcharged and will be detroyed. This is a particular problem with Litihium batteries which are pickier with their charging voltages. Now, your battery is 24vDC and is charged with your 24vDC charger. Your panels output 12vDC. The easy answer would be to hook up two panels in series directly to the battery to charge them, but like I said earlier, unless you monitor them religiously, you will wreck your batteries. This is why you use the charger, it charges the batteries and then automatically stops charging to protect the batteries. The problem is that the charger is powered by a 110v AC outlet. Most people who have a solar setup use the solar to charge a 12v or 48v battery bank and then use an inverter to convert to 110vAC to run anything they need. So to charge an ebike, they would use 12DCv solar to charge a 12DCv battery, convert it to 110vAC with an inverter and then plug in their 24vDC charger to charge their ebike. The first panels you linked skipped a few steps by converting the solar panel input directly to the maximum battery voltage, the other link you sent would not do that. To use the second panels, you would have to add an inverter which means adding a battery to smooth out the power to run the inverter with. And before you ask, no you can not attach the inverter directly to the solar panels.
 
mettleramiel said:
Like has been stated before, this only has a charge controller for 12v batteries, not of any use to your setup.

Here are the basics. A solar panel puts out x volts at x amps and will keep putting out that as long as the sun is shining. The problem with this is, if you hook up directly to a battery and don't monitor it, the battery will be overcharged and will be detroyed. This is a particular problem with Litihium batteries which are pickier with their charging voltages. Now, your battery is 24vDC and is charged with your 24vDC charger. Your panels output 12vDC. The easy answer would be to hook up two panels in series directly to the battery to charge them, but like I said earlier, unless you monitor them religiously, you will wreck your batteries. This is why you use the charger, it charges the batteries and then automatically stops charging to protect the batteries. The problem is that the charger is powered by a 110v AC outlet. Most people who have a solar setup use the solar to charge a 12v or 48v battery bank and then use an inverter to convert to 110vAC to run anything they need. So to charge an ebike, they would use 12DCv solar to charge a 12DCv battery, convert it to 110vAC with an inverter and then plug in their 24vDC charger to charge their ebike. The first panels you linked skipped a few steps by converting the solar panel input directly to the maximum battery voltage, the other link you sent would not do that. To use the second panels, you would have to add an inverter which means adding a battery to smooth out the power to run the inverter with. And before you ask, no you can not attach the inverter directly to the solar panels.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative break down.

Interesting I used a Brunton Solar panel (solaris 26 watt) a couple years ago to charge electronics while camping. It must have been similar design to the first panels I linked as it had a little inverter box with a usb port and a wall outlet that you plugged directly into the solar panel, so it looked like this panel>inverter>ipod/phone/etc. Using that is about all I know about solar

What about something like this to prevent overcharging? http://www.ebay.com/itm/P30L-LCD-30...ge-Controller-12V-24V-390W-780W-/281304356954

Also, what if I had 2 12v batteries such as these: http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...e-with-led-balancing---un38-3-passed-dgr.aspx, would the 2nd panel (http://www.solardealz.com/120-Watt-...zs-120-p.htm?gclid=CNvk-tXxjr4CFY17fgod-3IADQ) with the solar controller work with these without overcharging?

I know these are newb questions but thats where I am at, I appreciate all the help.
 
What about something like this to prevent overcharging? http://www.ebay.com/itm/P30L-LCD-30...ge-Controller-12V-24V-390W-780W-/281304356954

Also, what if I had 2 12v batteries such as these: http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...e-with-led-balancing---un38-3-passed-dgr.aspx, would the 2nd panel (http://www.solardealz.com/120-Watt-...zs-120-p.htm?gclid=CNvk-tXxjr4CFY17fgod-3IADQ) with the solar controller work with these without overcharging?

I know these are newb questions but thats where I am at, I appreciate all the help.
Click to expand...
The charge controller on EBay and the portable system you linked are both designed to maintain lead acid batteries. I have yet to find a controller that is intended for any of the lithium chemistries.
I charge my bike batteries from my solar panels in three different ways.
1. Hobby King Quatro four channel balance charger connected to 12v lead acid battery bank fed from solar array via charge controller. This way allows me to balance the batteries but is slow.
2. Meanwell power supply plugged into inverter fed from battery bank. Much faster charge but without a BMS I must closely monitor to prevent over charging.
3. Directly from solar panel through an adjustable DC to DC converter which brings the 30 volt output of the panel down to 24.6V. This also requires close monitoring but is the most efficient.
My panels are too large to carry on the bike but take two of them with me when I go camping. They keep the RV battery and three bike batteries charged.
Keep looking until you find a source for panels small enough to be carried on the bike in the voltage range you need. They are out there somewhere.
 
kingb said:
mettleramiel said:
Thanks for the informative break down.

Interesting I used a Brunton Solar panel (solaris 26 watt) a couple years ago to charge electronics while camping. It must have been similar design to the first panels I linked as it had a little inverter box with a usb port and a wall outlet that you plugged directly into the solar panel, so it looked like this panel>inverter>ipod/phone/etc. Using that is about all I know about solar

What about something like this to prevent overcharging? http://www.ebay.com/itm/P30L-LCD-30...ge-Controller-12V-24V-390W-780W-/281304356954

Also, what if I had 2 12v batteries such as these: http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepo4...e-with-led-balancing---un38-3-passed-dgr.aspx, would the 2nd panel (http://www.solardealz.com/120-Watt-...zs-120-p.htm?gclid=CNvk-tXxjr4CFY17fgod-3IADQ) with the solar controller work with these without overcharging?

I know these are newb questions but thats where I am at, I appreciate all the help.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

The small box that came with the Brunton panel you are talkign about probably had a small battery inside so you could charge small electronics with it. Keep in mind that this set up would not work very well with your bike since the battery in the box would be smaller than your bike batteries. Can't charge a larger battery with a smaller one unless you have made an uverunity machine.

Yes, that charge controller would work IF you were charging lead acid batteries which you are not. Lithium is much more sensitive to charging voltages. If you were to use lead, you could plug that right into your batteries and panels and be ready to go. Here's a link to a 24v folding panel that is fairly inexpensive. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peel-Stick-136-watt-Uni-Solar-Laminate-Solar-Panel-Flexible-24v-Unisolar-/281248240897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417bb39501 now the only thing you need is a charge controller to regulate the output. It looks like Amazon had one at one time http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CQGAZVU?tag=1newmodel-20 as did this site which says it will have them in stock in mid May http://www.bioennopower.com/products/12v-24v-30a-lifepo4-solar-controller-1 I would say that if you can get one of these and one of those panels I linked to, go fot it!

There is also this like who has them for $300 http://www.batteryspace.com/105-350w-solar-boost-charge-controller-with-mppt-for-lithium-batteries.aspx
 
[/quote]
So for a ~39V battery and assuming 12V panels, 4 of them in series, for 48V, which is 20% higher? Thanks.[/quote]

Yeah, that should work. The "12V" panels that I have seen are usually around 17V peak.
On all panels if you graph the voltage on the vertical axis and the current on the horizontal axis you will find a point where the two lines intersect. This is referred to as the mean power point. MPPT charge controllers track this point and optimize the power output of the panel as the light intensity varies during the day. By selecting a panel or series of panels with peak voltage somewhat higher than your battery needs you can be fairly sure that under most conditions the DC to DC converter will be able to continue feeding the battery. The 20% is a rough guess that should be fairly near the mean power point.
Someday there will be solar charge controllers that can be programmed to match the various lithium battery types. Some of the folks on this board could probably do it now with an adrino . For now an adjustable converter and close attention works.
 
Yeah, that should work. The "12V" panels that I have seen are usually around 17V peak.
[/quote]

Low quality panels output 17v-18v but higher quality ones will put out around 21v
 
mettleramiel said:
The small box that came with the Brunton panel you are talkign about probably had a small battery inside so you could charge small electronics with it. Keep in mind that this set up would not work very well with your bike since the battery in the box would be smaller than your bike batteries. Can't charge a larger battery with a smaller one unless you have made an uverunity machine.

Yes, that charge controller would work IF you were charging lead acid batteries which you are not. Lithium is much more sensitive to charging voltages. If you were to use lead, you could plug that right into your batteries and panels and be ready to go. Here's a link to a 24v folding panel that is fairly inexpensive. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peel-Stick-136-watt-Uni-Solar-Laminate-Solar-Panel-Flexible-24v-Unisolar-/281248240897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417bb39501 now the only thing you need is a charge controller to regulate the output. It looks like Amazon had one at one time http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CQGAZVU?tag=1newmodel-20 as did this site which says it will have them in stock in mid May http://www.bioennopower.com/products/12v-24v-30a-lifepo4-solar-controller-1 I would say that if you can get one of these and one of those panels I linked to, go fot it!

There is also this like who has them for $300 http://www.batteryspace.com/105-350w-solar-boost-charge-controller-with-mppt-for-lithium-batteries.aspx
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I was looking for! :mrgreen:
Thanks for the links, this is great. I will be putting in an order soon.

I also want to say thanks to everybody who helped me out in this thread , I have learned a lot 8)

I will plan on putting up a new thread in a couple of weeks to show off the new setup before I take off touring... Very excited to get this up and running!
 
kingb said:
Thats exactly what I was looking for! :mrgreen:
Thanks for the links, this is great. I will be putting in an order soon.

I also want to say thanks to everybody who helped me out in this thread , I have learned a lot 8)

I will plan on putting up a new thread in a couple of weeks to show off the new setup before I take off touring... Very excited to get this up and running!
Click to expand...

No problem! I just hope that the charge controller will actually be available again soon
 
Kingb, the data sheet for that Unisolar panel is at http://www.nooutage.com/pdf/UniSolar-PVL136.pdf. I looked it up because I was curious about the weight. It is only 17 pounds and should be easy enough to pack on your bike. What do you intend to do about the adhesive on it? You could stick it to a piece of canvas, but that would add unnecessary weight. If the backing seems to be rugged enough you might want to try removing the adhesive. My fear is that if it is rolled up tight and the sun heats it up, it might stick to it's self and be a real mess.
Please come back to this thread and let us know how it works out.
 
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