US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

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billvon   1 MW

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by billvon » Mar 08 2018 11:09am

Dauntless wrote:
Mar 08 2018 1:03am
Such a neat project, a shame to waste it in a thread where the haters are raging at efforts to build panels in America. You deserve a thread of your own where American workers making panels can feel welcome.
That "neat" project you are touting uses GCL panels (GCL is headquartered in Hong Kong) and SMA inverters from Germany. Why are you such a hater? Why do you hate American workers so much?
--bill von

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by tomjasz » Mar 08 2018 11:43pm

Dick head Americans refused to support American makers, even though Obama tried to enable and support them. But business as usual. Anything obama supported was shut down. Racism rages.... China is light years ahead. Support a global economy. Who here insists on American ebike motors? Phony asshats...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by TheBeastie » Mar 09 2018 12:32am

I think the tariffs the USA are implementing are fair, most of the world just sees America as a place to try and suck money from.
China subsidies everything from electricity to steel, it even has multiple forms of its own currency to buffer it from the rest of the world with CNH and CNY, one is for offshore and one is for internal usage only, they serve as a gateway buffer between the rest of the world.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... currencies
Prior to the establishment of the yuan offshore market, China's capital control rules did not allow renminbi (denoted CNY) to be traded outside of China.

But what it causes is everything to be only affordable if you buy it in China for Chinese locals, because if you had to buy carrots from the USA using Chinas internal currency it would be like $100 per carrot. This is a country-wide incentive to make and sell everything internal within China only.
It also makes selling stuff overseas to the USA become 100 times more valuable worth once the money comes into China.

So making/selling solar panels in China from entirely subsidized materials, with subsidized coal, electricity and buffered money makes it all a one direction trading policy.

The other part of it is China doesn't respect environmental laws, the semiconductor production part of all solar panels (solar panels are mostly just silicon semiconductors that absorb light) releases gases like NF3 and SF6 as stated by the EPA. China just lets the gases spew into the atmosphere in their production process as its the cheapest way to make solar panels and is giving them just more of a competitive edge.
https://www.epa.gov/f-gas-partnership-p ... r-industry
Semiconductor manufacturing processes use high GWP fluorinated compounds including perfluorocarbons (e.g., CF4, C2F6 and C3F8), hydrofluorocarbons (CHF3, CH3F and CH2F2), nitrogen trifluoride (NF3) and sulfur hexafluoride (SF6).

China even sell these super greenhouse gases by the ton, for anyone to buy.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 63abjlt9Xv

I posted details about it all here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1359259
These super potent greenhouse gases completely blow away CO2 and stay in the atmosphere for 1000's of years. Plenty of experts claim the manufacture of solar panels are doing far more damage to the environment than they prevent, buying those made in China is just making the problem much worse.
https://youtu.be/v6uVnyjTb58?t=12m47s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_ ... nhouse_gas
Quote from Wikipedia "NF3 is a greenhouse gas, with a global warming potential (GWP) 17,200 times greater than that of CO2 ...
large-scale production of thin-film solar cells."

If we take the 17,200 x greater than co2 and times it by 8,000tons we get 137,600,000 co2 equivalent CO2e.
With SF6 is 23,900 greater than co2 warming equivalent and at an estimated 10,000tons a year 23,900x10,000 = 239,000,000 co2e.
239million tons of co2 equivalent while Australia's coal power-stations only emit around 151million tons a year
A lot of the charts are updated daily on NOAA
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/iadv/g ... ts&type=ts
Image
Only reason this information is not mainstream is due to the fact its too complicated to explain in mainstream media and also because of the fact Solar is pushed around for political power and money then anything else. Planting trees doesn't really make anyone money nor does it sell well as an environmental solution in politics.
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zega   100 µW

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by zega » Mar 09 2018 2:34am

tomjasz wrote:
Mar 08 2018 11:43pm
Dick head Americans refused to support American makers, even though Obama tried to enable and support them. But business as usual. Anything obama supported was shut down. Racism rages.... China is light years ahead. Support a global economy. Who here insists on American ebike motors? Phony asshats...
Fair or not, solar tariffs will cost Americans 23000 jobs projected (maybe more).
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-solar-pa ... obs-796387
Bottom line ROI math falls apart and people will not install those panels on the roof, businesses schrink.
How many jobs saved?
Net result is bad (-) for Americans that is bottom line!

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LockH   100 GW

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by LockH » Mar 09 2018 3:13am

TheBeastie wrote:
Mar 09 2018 12:32am
I posted details about it all here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1359259
These super potent greenhouse gases completely blow away CO2 and stay in the atmosphere for 1000's of years. Plenty of experts claim the manufacture of solar panels are doing far more damage to the environment than they prevent, buying those made in China is just making the problem much worse.
https://youtu.be/v6uVnyjTb58?t=12m47s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_ ... nhouse_gas
Quote from Wikipedia "NF3 is a greenhouse gas, with a global warming potential (GWP) 17,200 times greater than that of CO2 ...
large-scale production of thin-film solar cells."

If we take the 17,200 x greater than co2 and times it by 8,000tons we get 137,600,000 co2 equivalent CO2e.
With SF6 is 23,900 greater than co2 warming equivalent and at an estimated 10,000tons a year 23,900x10,000 = 239,000,000 co2e.
239million tons of co2 equivalent while Australia's coal power-stations only emit around 151million tons a year
A lot of the charts are updated daily on NOAA
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/dv/iadv/g ... ts&type=ts
Image
Only reason this information is not mainstream is due to the fact its too complicated to explain in mainstream media and also because of the fact Solar is pushed around for political power and money then anything else. Planting trees doesn't really make anyone money nor does it sell well as an environmental solution in politics.
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Punx0r   10 GW

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Punx0r » Mar 09 2018 4:11am

TheBeastie wrote:
Mar 09 2018 12:32am
I posted details about it all here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1359259
You did, where it was roundly rebuked by people who know about solar panels.
TheBeastie wrote:
Mar 09 2018 12:32am
Plenty of experts claim the manufacture of solar panels are doing far more damage to the environment than they prevent
Global warming denialist cranks on YouTube are not experts...

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by tomjasz » Mar 11 2018 9:04am

zega wrote:
Mar 09 2018 2:34am
tomjasz wrote:
Mar 08 2018 11:43pm
Dick head Americans refused to support American makers, even though Obama tried to enable and support them. But business as usual. Anything obama supported was shut down. Racism rages.... China is light years ahead. Support a global economy. Who here insists on American ebike motors? Phony asshats...
Fair or not, solar tariffs will cost Americans 23000 jobs projected (maybe more).
http://www.newsweek.com/trumps-solar-pa ... obs-796387
Bottom line ROI math falls apart and people will not install those panels on the roof, businesses schrink.
How many jobs saved?
Net result is bad (-) for Americans that is bottom line!
First of all I fell prey to the same ignorant mistake that is so often made here, colectively all of North and South America is by definition AMERICA, and AMERICANS.

That said USA solar jobs are being far and away overstated, as usual, to support an unproven number of lost jobs. I’d like to see panels made here in the USA. I’d like to see a lot of things marked legitimately made in the USA. But the world is evolving into a global economy and trade wars have never had winners. If Orange Man spewed horse apples 30% of the unwashed would call them fruit.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by LockH » Mar 11 2018 9:47am

^^ Hehe... Watt he said... I think...

The Orange Man (2015):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3834272/

... or not... Anyway, NORTH Americans love buying (poorly designed?/cheaply made) stuff eg from China using watt many would describe as "slave labour"... using machines powered with noxious/poisonous "greenhouse" gases.

Confusing, really. Shitting in our own cage.
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Raisedeyebrows » Mar 11 2018 2:49pm

LockH wrote:
Mar 11 2018 9:47am
^^ Hehe... Watt he said... I think...

The Orange Man (2015):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3834272/

... or not... Anyway, NORTH Americans love buying (poorly designed?/cheaply made) stuff eg from China using watt many would describe as "slave labour"... using machines powered with noxious/poisonous "greenhouse" gases.

Confusing, really. Shitting in our own cage.
The Orange dipsh&t feels he needs to crap on gold plated toilets (probably made in
China) and start trade wars while he sells stupid red hats (made in China). As a North American as much as I enjoy buying stuff made in USA and Canada (love my Seagull made in Canada guitar) but I also am greatly enjoying having access to stuff made in China by increasingly savvy Chinese who seem to be coming up with some pretty darned useful products of decent if not downright good quality at very reasonable prices.

I agree his attempts to reverse the evolution of the global economy is going to be an ugly mess, much like himself.
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Re: US Administration places Tariffs on Solar Panel imports.

Post by Punx0r » Mar 12 2018 3:18am

Manufacturing low-cost commodities is not the way for a first-world country to stay ahead. High tech, high value, exportable technology is the key. Research and development, advanced manufacturing, next-gen technologies.

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