Looking into small DIY wind turbines.

Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Messages
49
Location
Washington, US
Hi folks,
I've been looking at using solar panels to reduce my power bill, but in my region, they'll be almost useless in the winter. I'd like to supplement them with wind, but I haven't found much info on how to go about it. The websites I've come across assume an off-grid situation and are describing huge and expensive platforms and towers that are way out of my price range. I haven't had much luck on You Tube either.

Maybe I'm asking the wrong questions? If you all have any good links to web pages or videos please share. I need to learn about pretty much everything. Turbine design, what kind of motor to use, charge controllers, are there good off-the-shelf products I can get, or will I have to reinvent the wheel? Yep, total newb, but I've got to start somewhere, LOL.
 
First of all do you have the wind? My mother was told she didn't when she was building an off the grid facility, wound up solar only. Are you aware of any wind power around your area?
 
How much power are you looking for ?
Most of the 3-5+ kW wind systems i have seen have had disapointing results because of the lack of wind needed.
Smaller < 1kW level windmill type devices ( often seen on boats) seem too expensive for the output.
 
And if there *is* wind...how high up is it? How tall are you allowed to build?

Usually to get much power, reliably and constantly, you've got to stick it up pretty high, to clear the surrounding clutter that breaks up the wind and/or deflects it around your prop or vane.

Builditsolar has some info on wind stuff

https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Wind/wind.htm

https://www.builditsolar.com/References/SunChartRS.htm#Wind


Something else to consider: it's going to cost a fair bit to build the system itself, especially if you need to store the power (batterybanks, etc); otherwise you'll need connection equipment to feed it back into the grid (to be able to use it at teh same time as gridpower, unless you're using it on stuff that's not normally gridconnected).
 
Thanks for the replies!

I'm not sure how much wind I get. Each website I visit gives a different number for my area, and I'm not sure knowing the average would do much good anyway. I get a lot more in the winter than summer, and winter is exactly when I'd need it.

I plan to build a hybrid grid-tie solar/battery system for my house, so by the time I get into wind, I'll have all the other stuff in place and figured out. I doubt I'll get enough power in the winter to impact my power bill much, but I was hoping wind power could help a little. In the summer, it's pretty calm, but I should be able to get plenty of solar, so the lack of wind won't matter. Even if I only got a few kWh from wind, that would help.

I'm also thinking a single large one is out of my price range, but maybe several smaller ones in parallel or series would be more practical if I can build them myself. I've got a lot more time than money. I'm not sure how high I can put them. I will need to be able to get to them for maintenance and repair.

Thanks for the website links. I will be looking over those sites carefully in the near future. :)
 
Go solar, GO SOLAR! Small wind turbines, even profesionally engineered ones, much less a newbie built one, put out little power for their cost, even IF on a high tower and in strong wind. You're in Washington state, not the back side of the moon, any way you pencil it out PV will put out MANY times the power for $, and without noise, moving parts, towers, maintenance etc., and will last for decades, NO BRAINER! Now is a terrible time to be a commercial small wind manfacturer, they have mostly gone tits up due to solar being so cheap now.
 
I have been workin 5 years now on VAWT type wind turbine design...of my own.

santonen3.jpg
 
Cool! Does it work well?

I did a bunch of research a while back, and found that there's just not enough wind in my area to make a viable system.
 
Well having have to test everything as a pioneer of this kinda invention ( no I did no invent the H-Darrieus but a system in it ) there are many snags in it.

The wing became slightly too heavy and stubby...and wrong kinda generator ( a bike hubmotor with planet gear...which is really heavy to turn ). The tower was too weak at start..it was shaking like in an earthquake at first when it went beyond 200 rpm. After 6 rounds of tuning it started to be vibration free.

It has not performed better than a Savonius yet. This is the third prototype....and I will make new wings for it....and the moment arm. It is a lot of work.

Field testing will OTOH advance with this flawed proto, but 4th( 3B actually ) will be built during the winter.

I am testing at an island of the coast where I live....always a good wind when switching the place. Otherwise this would have to be 30 meters high.

käpynorsu.jpg
 
The last serious and studied attempt to make a viable better than propeller VAWT in USA was the oil crisis aftermath situation when McDonnell Aircraft corporation developed the Giromill in 1978-1980.
 
I am going to build a small scale VAWT out of composite materials with the goal of charging an EV in wilderness areas supplementing solar and standard plug-in charging.

My initial plan is as follows. I would love to have comments and criticism and "I've tried that befores."

Basic design based on the FloWind 19m 3-bladed prototype discussed starting on page 34 of the attached Sandia National Labs document.

VAWT Flowind EHD.png

Goals:
-2-6KW power generation in 15mph wind.
-Low cost.
-Free standing rotor system without need for guy wires or braces.
-Low-maintenance operation to be used while I sleep or hike or do other activities.

Reasons for choosing a VAWT design:
-Goal of folding and portability. Heavy generator can be fix mounted to the roof of the vehicle or as an anchor on the ground and the lightweight blade assembly can be removed for stowage.
-DIYability. I have lots of experience with foam, fiberglass, carbon fiber, and balsa wood based RC sailplanes and I plan to use the same construction methods for the blades and rigid carbon tubes for the axles and struts.
-Omni-directional by nature. Can also operate well in turbulent or swirling wind areas without a consistent wind direction, i.e. mountain and canyon areas.
-Ability to operate in low wind conditions.

Design:
-Darrieus "eggbeater" VAWT with 6-10 foot blade length with top and bottom bent towards the axle. Size chosen based on trying to get best power generation while maintaining ability to pack up and store in a vehicle.
-3 blades to gain an additional torque impulse and aid in self-starting.
-Carbon fiber axle riding on ball bearings top and bottom.
-Carbon fiber mounting plates for the blades.
-Foam core blades with fiberglass or carbon fiber vacuum wrap. Possibly off the shelf RC sailplane wings.
-Possibly a small Savonius turbine mounted at the very top to maintain rotation in low wind but good efficiency in high wind. Also to aid in the self-starting ability of the system because Darrieus turbines sometimes need an initial rotation given to them to start.
-Transmission for optimum generator RPM, possibly with two speeds for high and low wind.

I chose this design because it seems like something an avid DIYer can build whereas a good DIY HAWT seems harder. A VAWT has all the heavy stuff down low which is something I think I can build. A HAWT would require me to purchase a high strength tower or weld something big and heavy and could be hard to setup in a primitive location. I think my VAWT could be mounted on the roof of an SUV with the blade assembly removable for stowage.

The only specific piece of hardware I currently have is a 10kw Manta motor/8kw generator. I plan to use this generator in my project because I got it for free and I think it is sized well for my application. I have the "Old Manta type #1" shown here: https://www.hydrogenappliances.com/manta.html
 

Attachments

  • SAND2012-0304.pdf
    1.1 MB · Views: 52
@topspeed it looks like your blades were built similar to RC plane wings? Balsa with a adhesive vinyl covering? Yes your pitfalls are what I am trying to avoid; blades that are too heavy, too shorty and stubby, a tower that is not stable, poorly paired generator/drivetrain. Yes H style is more efficient but as the Sandia document states multiple times the "eggbeater" or "diamond" shape offer the inherent benefit of the blades being loaded in tension vastly reducing their required mass.

Have you also built a DIY Savonius turbine as well? I would love to see any more photos you have or any additional information or warnings you can offer from what you've learned! Beautiful beach location!
 
Pretty sweet little hybrid VAWT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY-Th0WVpDQ
 
E1000 said:
@topspeed it looks like your blades were built similar to RC plane wings? Balsa with a adhesive vinyl covering? Yes your pitfalls are what I am trying to avoid; blades that are too heavy, too shorty and stubby, a tower that is not stable, poorly paired generator/drivetrain. Yes H style is more efficient but as the Sandia document states multiple times the "eggbeater" or "diamond" shape offer the inherent benefit of the blades being loaded in tension vastly reducing their required mass.

Have you also built a DIY Savonius turbine as well? I would love to see any more photos you have or any additional information or warnings you can offer from what you've learned! Beautiful beach location!


No I never built a savonius.
 
topspeed said:
No I never built a savonius.
Great info! Care to share any more of your experience with the VAWT or do you want to keep it to yourself?
 
E1000 said:
topspeed said:
No I never built a savonius.
Great info! Care to share any more of your experience with the VAWT or do you want to keep it to yourself?

Well it is 6 years old innovation that I have been tuning along....4th is the current version that I am working on right now.

So far 2nd model featured 300 Gs....and almost 900 rpm...3rd model 524 rpm. Lamp did shine brightly, but it did reach the design limits so I have to do another one.

Small innovations are coming along to make it perform.

IMG_20200820_112829.jpg
 
topspeed said:
Well it is 6 years old innovation that I have been tuning along....4th is the current version that I am working on right now.

So far 2nd model featured 300 Gs....and almost 900 rpm...3rd model 524 rpm. Lamp did shine brightly, but it did reach the design limits so I have to do another one.

Small innovations are coming along to make it perform.

IMG_20200820_112829.jpg
That's a weird VAWT! Looks like a hammer to me!
 
topspeed said:
Yes hammer is used to belt the 60 cm by 14 mm steel rods into ground.
Are you trying to give as little information as possible on your VAWT or what? If it's your little secret then fine, keep it to yourself. I don't understand the point of these weird photos that don't show anything and cryptic one sentence posts. You VAWT obviously has issues, too heavy for starters.
 
E1000 said:
Reasons for choosing a VAWT design:
-Goal of folding and portability. Heavy generator can be fix mounted to the roof of the vehicle or as an anchor on the ground and the lightweight blade assembly can be removed for stowage.
That's a good feature when you are looking at "how hard is it to build" but a negative when looking at "how much energy per dollar will I get out of the system."

The two variables that tell you how well a wind turbine will work are average windspeed and height. Most people can't do anything about average windspeed; a good rule of thumb is that if you regularly eat outdoors, you don't have enough wind, and most people don't want to move just to get better wind.

The second thing you can control is height. And a marginal wind location can indeed be saved by using a very tall tower. You can mount a VAWT up high, but it's a lot harder than mounting a HAWT up high since they are designed for doing just that. (And more importantly, towers and guyed poles are designed for just that.)
 
E1000 said:
topspeed said:
Yes hammer is used to belt the 60 cm by 14 mm steel rods into ground.
Are you trying to give as little information as possible on your VAWT or what? If it's your little secret then fine, keep it to yourself. I don't understand the point of these weird photos that don't show anything and cryptic one sentence posts. You VAWT obviously has issues, too heavy for starters.

Yes unfortunately it is a very big secret...I could list a long bunch of innovations of mine that are being used to make big money.

This will be mine only. Is it okay with you ?

windturbine.jpg

This is SN4 ( extented legs )....heavily modified SN3.
 
JackFlorey said:
That's a good feature when you are looking at "how hard is it to build" but a negative when looking at "how much energy per dollar will I get out of the system."

The two variables that tell you how well a wind turbine will work are average windspeed and height. Most people can't do anything about average windspeed; a good rule of thumb is that if you regularly eat outdoors, you don't have enough wind, and most people don't want to move just to get better wind.

The second thing you can control is height. And a marginal wind location can indeed be saved by using a very tall tower. You can mount a VAWT up high, but it's a lot harder than mounting a HAWT up high since they are designed for doing just that. (And more importantly, towers and guyed poles are designed for just that.)
Thanks for Wind Power 101. I understand the basics. I know a stiff wind when I feel it also. Why are you talking about me moving house? My whole project is for a portable wind turbine, by definition it is portable!!
 
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