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Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 23, 2016 2:04 pm
by squashua
I hate to have to do this, but I have to issue a warning about customer service at Luna Cycle for Bafang mid-drive motors. I bought a BBS02 from them over a month ago and PAS did not work properly (wouldn't engage until 6-9 mph and would clunk in and out of engagement) right out of the box. I had a bbs02 unit prior for a year and am familiar with the unit, installation and operation. This was installed on a Yuba Mundo that serves as our family car. We need this vehicle to grocery shop, take our children to school and for other important errands. Not having it working makes household logistics much more complicated and time-consuming.

Per Louis' reequest, I tried a different computer from my old model (c961 vs 965 w Luna) to no avail. A week goes by. Eric and Louis determined it was the controller and said they would ship me a replacement controller for me to install (already had to buy and install Anderson connectors for my existing battery). I said ok. A week goes by. The replacement controller they sent did not match the bbs02 unit they sold me: too wide and did not mate to the motor case (see photo. Unit that was on original motor on right.). They apologized, said they were really busy and would send the correct one. Another week goes by. The next controller shows up. Same wrong model as before. I inform them. Another week goes by. They send up another one, third replacement controller...it's the same wrong one!!! At this point, its been over a month since I ordered the original unit from them and it hasn't worked correctly the entire time!!! Weve been without our family cargo bike! I'm asking for a complete refund and will be going elsewhere for my motor. These guys claim to sell the most Bafang BBS units in the US, but don't count on them to remedy your problem. Just be warned.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 23, 2016 3:35 pm
by lester12483
Where are you located? USA, Canada?..

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 24, 2016 9:52 pm
by johnboy
Where is the picture. Luna has been great to me.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 25, 2016 8:16 am
by bowhunter29
I've spent a lot of money with Luna and have never had an issue.

Jeremy

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 25, 2016 11:14 am
by docw009
Maybe you send them the original controller when you return the three that didn't fit, and then they could replace it, knowing what's needed.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 25, 2016 8:15 pm
by craneplaneguy
Two motors, 3 batteries, and some misc. all on time and at a great price, zero issues.

Hang in there, your experience is not typical. You fell through the cracks somehow.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 27, 2016 12:13 am
by Marin
So far I haven't had a problem with Lunacycle, I've had a bunch of issues but all have been resolved and I've been treated well, Go Luna,

maybe try and get involved on the Luna support site it's probably more appropriate than here,

sorry to hear you've had such bad luck and your back riding soon,

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 27, 2016 12:45 am
by Sunder
This thread has stayed more polite than I thought it would! Usually when someone warns against a reputable and liked vendor, things get bad quickly.

Anyway, I had to comment, because we nicknamed our son Joshua Squashua.

I've never dealt with Luna because they're a US based company, but from everything I've read outside this thread, I thought they were a reliable vendor, and many people were going to get defensive for them. Good to see everything is kept polite.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Apr 30, 2016 7:16 am
by Green Machine
This is Eric from Luna Cycle . This was a strange problem and a hard puzzle to solve. As many know it can be difficult getting replacement parts from bafang. We are primarly a specialist in the bbshd because we are pretty new to the scene and when we came in the bbshd was coming to market and there was not as much interest in the bbs02. however we stock more replacment parts than anybody i know of.

By the time i finally y got pics of this customers controller...and it really looked like the customer had a bbshd controller. I hope he posts pics so you can see what i saw after the 3rd controller and you will be bewildered too.

To compound the confusion this customer is the lone wolf who demanded we trade his bbshd for a bbso2 and refund him the difference (which we did without question).


So anyway next thing we know he has a failed bbs02 controller using it on a multi passenger bike tugging his kids up bay area hills...on a cargo bike pulling a load the bbs02 is not the best choice. . Did i mention we changed out his bbshd for a bbs02 with out hassling him? What dealer does that?


No problem the bbso2 controller PAS is not working properly? no problem send him a new controller. Lets get this customer back on the road.

Yikes sent him the wrong controller? Send him another one..... what wrong controller again? OMG i gotta see a picture.....

are all the luna shipping people smoking crack?


when we saw pictures of his controller next to the controller we sent him... we were really bewildered.

We thought maybe he somehow got lucky and we sent him a bbshd to replace his bbshd by mistake (plus he gets the rebate)...what he had looked exactly like a bbshd controller.

Anyway after some investigation we figured it out. Bafang had quietly changed to a new version of the bbs02....we did not realize that this new unit uses a redesigned controller that the outside housing looks very similar to the bbbshd controller.

We had just got to a point where we had all the bbs02 replacement parts in stock, and now we learn we need to get an entirely new set to match the new version of the bbs02 that is no improvement over the last bbs02...i bet most of you guys didn't even know bafang released a version 2 of the bbs02.

the customer accused us of now knowing our product etc....but with bafang its always learn the hard way. The version 2 of the bbs02 has a completely different set of replacement parts. Go figure...now we know.

why didnt you hear about the version 2 of the bbs02? Because there are no improvements on the performance of the drive...why did they change the bbs02? i guess just to confuse us all and make getting replacement parts harder.

Just another way we are gonna have to step up...we will have to stock replacement parts on 2 different types of bbs02 drives....as well as all the bbshd parts.


We did our best for this customer and obviously did not make him happy with our efforts ...and not to make excuses... but its not like we dissect every product every time the china factory quietly sneaks out a version change. ....its not like bafang sends out memos and a dealer kit with spare parts order form.... sometimes we like everybody have to learn the hard way. Its not always easy being an ebike dealer :).

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 04, 2016 12:27 pm
by squashua
Sorry I haven't been able to post a picture. In fact, I sent Luna several pictures, including one right off the bat that showed the complete and total difference between the two controllers, including parts ID numbers, but I guess they just couldn't be bothered to deal with actually noting the very pronounced differences between the two controllers and send me the correct one. Now, to answer Eric's post more specifically:

By the time i finally y got pics of this customers controller...and it really looked like the customer had a bbshd controller. I hope he posts pics so you can see what i saw after the 3rd controller and you will be bewildered too.

Again, I hope to be able to downsize the pictures I have and post them because it is painfully obvious the two controllers are very different. I am not even sure they took time to look at the picture and just kept sending me the incorrect controllers. They finally took time after three weeks to open up one of the newer BBS02 units and see there was difference in the controller. In the meantime, I just had a non-operational bike collecting dust in the garage.

To compound the confusion this customer is the lone wolf who demanded we trade his bbshd for a bbso2 and refund him the difference (which we did without question).

There was an issue with the HD as well. The motor, I believe, had a problem to begin with. Grinding at the start of pedaling and bad grinding/jerking when backing up the bike. Never had this this problem in two years of using a BBS02. Plus, the battery I had did not work well with this motor (48V. Motor was very slow to take off and had a low top-speed), but worked fine with the previous BBS02 I had. So, after having the motor on my bike for a day, I decided to send it back. Eric tried to hard sell me on not taking back the HD, but I was insistent that the BBS02 was better for my needs. He finally agreed to make an exchange. Initially, I wasn't even going to buy from him as he only had a three-month warranty on the BBS02 advertised on their website and I was going to go with a company that offered at least a one-year warranty (who does a three-month warranty on any new electronics???). I guess they had an intraoffice meeting and decided to offer a one-year warranty on the BBS02 after I brought it to their attention. Since they seemed reasonable, I went ahead and made the exchange for the BBS02. And then the trouble really started...

So anyway next thing we know he has a failed bbs02 controller using it on a multi passenger bike tugging his kids up bay area hills...on a cargo bike pulling a load the bbs02 is not the best choice. . Did i mention we changed out his bbshd for a bbs02 with out hassling him? What dealer does that?

This is incorrect. I live in Sacramento, CA which is flat as a pancake. I used an earlier BBS02 for nearly two years on a Yuba Mundo here with great results before it burned out and was willing to pay for another one as it is our family's car. You shouldn't hassle me, Eric. I am the customer. You are the business. I let you know right away the HD wasn't working for me and went for an exchange.

No problem the bbso2 controller PAS is not working properly? no problem send him a new controller. Lets get this customer back on the road.

Yikes sent him the wrong controller? Send him another one..... what wrong controller again? OMG i gotta see a picture.....

are all the luna shipping people smoking crack? when we saw pictures of his controller next to the controller we sent him... we were really bewildered.

We thought maybe he somehow got lucky and we sent him a bbshd to replace his bbshd by mistake (plus he gets the rebate)...what he had looked exactly like a bbshd controller.


You left out the one additional incorrect BBS02 controller you sent. THREE in total. You might have made the comparison after the first one. Really poor customer service, IMHO.

Anyway after some investigation we figured it out. Bafang had quietly changed to a new version of the bbs02....we did not realize that this new unit uses a redesigned controller that the outside housing looks very similar to the bbbshd controller. We had just got to a point where we had all the bbs02 replacement parts in stock, and now we learn we need to get an entirely new set to match the new version of the bbs02 that is no improvement over the last bbs02...i bet most of you guys didn't even know bafang released a version 2 of the bbs02. the customer accused us of now knowing our product etc....but with bafang its always learn the hard way. The version 2 of the bbs02 has a completely different set of replacement parts. Go figure...now we know.

Right, so I forced your company to know what was going on. TWICE! (competitive warranty policy AND realizing design changes).

why didnt you hear about the version 2 of the bbs02? Because there are no improvements on the performance of the drive...why did they change the bbs02? i guess just to confuse us all and make getting replacement parts harder.

Just another way we are gonna have to step up...we will have to stock replacement parts on 2 different types of bbs02 drives....as well as all the bbshd parts.

We did our best for this customer and obviously did not make him happy with our efforts ...and not to make excuses... but its not like we dissect every product every time the china factory quietly sneaks out a version change. ....its not like bafang sends out memos and a dealer kit with spare parts order form.... sometimes we like everybody have to learn the hard way. Its not always easy being an ebike dealer :).


Again, glad I could help your company become more effective, but that doesn't help me. It was two months with incorrectly working motors. Still waiting for that refund. I've asked USPS to redeliver the defective BBS02 motor after it was either refused or no one was around to take it. It's been sitting at USPS for a week and no one has picked it up, so I asked them to redeliver. Now, as soon as you fully refund me for the defective BBS02, I'll be on my way and we can put this all to rest.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 04, 2016 1:40 pm
by 999zip999
China. And we are caught in between.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 04, 2016 2:18 pm
by chas58
999zip999 wrote:China. And we are caught in between.
+1 that about sums it up.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 09, 2016 8:50 pm
by EMPowered
Bafang has just changed BBS02 controllers to have a water proof gasket similar to the HD motors. They will also include the 3 pin wire for gear sensors.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 09, 2016 9:27 pm
by Grizzl-E
So you bought a Chinese built kit from someone who is actually willing to attempt to live on the tiny margins that comes with selling ebike gear. And for a good price too! Either order from china direct next time and get no support, or pay through the nose for support staff that would have done exactly the same thing for you.

No doubt that was an annoying experience. But since you wanted to save money, you took the very small chance that something could go wrong, and it might take a little longer to fix.

If you honestly think you could do a better job selling in a market where everything is already cheaper on ebay, give it a try. Until then, nobody likes a whiner, so keep it to yourself.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 09, 2016 10:33 pm
by tomjasz
EMPowered wrote:Bafang has just changed BBS02 controllers to have a water proof gasket similar to the HD motors. They will also include the 3 pin wire for gear sensors.
Good to point out they're easily ripped and lubricating and resting one can lead to bigger problems. Nice store and great help files, by the way. Used the bottom bracket piece today. Also a small order quickly dispatched. Best piece on cases too.
Another example of why USA customers need to keep it at home. Great store!

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 11, 2016 12:06 pm
by squashua
Just an update on this: I have finally been reimbursed by Luna Cycle for my motor.

I consider the case closed.

If you are looking for a solid vendor with comparable prices, I can provide references if you PM me.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: May 11, 2016 7:30 pm
by dumbass
Grizzl-E wrote:
If you honestly think you could do a better job selling in a market where everything is already cheaper on ebay, give it a try. Until then, nobody likes a whiner, so keep it to yourself.
A whiner, really? I'm not trying to say anything bad about Luna because I've never dealt with them. But obviously squashua did fall through a crack with them (and it sounds like it was a pretty big one at that). As for the profit margin a supplier chooses to work under is a decision of that supplier and should not be considered as a reason for the quality of service given. So weather Luna is a good supplier or not I can't judge but I don't think it's fair to call squashua a whiner. What I found interesting was Luna's comments; ergo; tugging his kids around, finally getting the pics and it's Bafang's fault. First off Eric has no idea what the gearing is on the bike. Secondly, it should not be the responsibility of the consumer to supply pic of what a vendor sold him I would think that responsibility falls to the supplie. Thirdly, Bafang is well known for being problematic for both consumers and vendors. So why is this a surprise? So.... maybe the whiner label is misplaced. Just sayin!!

I think it's good to hear about both vendors success stories as well and their occasional "ah, craps" no matter who the vender is. Personally, I've had great success working with California EBikes and Doug has always done right by me with any small problems. But that's not to say someone else hasn't fallen through a crack with him. Every dealer will have them. It's just a case of how that dealer deals with the problem.

BTW, I've used cheap EZip motors to do things I would think of doing with a Bafang motor. And the EZip is about 15% the cost of a Bafang mid-drive.

Bob

AGREED- Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle - Example #101

Posted: Sep 17, 2017 8:38 am
by ESEBIKE
Luna Cycle Poor Customer Service Example #101

LUNA CYCLE UPDATE ON THEIR HORRIBLE,
TERRIBLE, RUDE, DISRESPECTABLE CUSTOMER SUPPORT
AFTER PURCHASING ELECTRIC BIKE PARTS & COMPONENTS
FOR A CURRENT HYBRID E-BIKE BUILD

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/as ... t-charging

http://www.wildbeachcruisers.com/lunacy ... pport.html

There is hopefully a chance Luna Cycle will take notice of how they are treating and adjusting their poor customer service over a customer who USED TO have motivation on a cool ebike build.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Sep 18, 2017 8:45 am
by d8veh
I think some of you should have a bit more empathy for OP. Many of you would be on here complaining if it happened to you. I think it was wrong of Luna to make the connotation that it was his application that damaged the controller. You can't lose the PAS or alter it by towing kids. The sensor is in the middle of the crank and totally independent of load.
I buy from Luna because they have stuff that I need. I never had a problem. Things can go wrong for anybody, but the best suppliers will ensure that they're dealt with in the most efficient manner. Surely, there can't be any excuse for sending the same wrong part three times when OP gave the correct part number? I can only guess that guys at Luna took their eye off the ball on that one.

I think it was OK for OP to mention this problem or even to publicly ask Luna to sort it out, but not to warn people against them, because they are normally a good, well-intentioned supplier.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Sep 18, 2017 9:08 am
by MadRhino
I believe in honest business practices. I find it is OK to warn people after your own experience.

Good business practice here, would be either giving polite and dilligent after sale service, or publish a warning about it. "We sell the stuff that you need, we find it for you at a fair price, but don't bother us if you have problems" :wink:

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Sep 19, 2017 12:01 am
by billvon
MadRhino wrote: "We sell the stuff that you need, we find it for you at a fair price, but don't bother us if you have problems" :wink:
They said something very similar to that on their website, something along the lines of "we aren't able to give you a lot of direct support so most of the debugging will have to be on your own." They have since changed it to "Understand the nature of DIY is that you save a lot of money, but you will need to do a lot of the building and troubleshooting on your own" which is pretty similar.

Re: Warning: Problems with Luna Cycle

Posted: Sep 19, 2017 12:07 pm
by tomjasz
The OP was a whiner and didn't tell the whole story. Read the response again. Bought a BBSHD, didn't like it, traded it back for a refund and a BBS02. In the interim, Bafang shipped a new BBS02, the BBS02B and didn't tell it's resellers. The reseller bent over backwards but was blindsided by the model change. Anyone who has used Bafang mid drives for a few years realizes Bafang can be a royal pain in the butt. Poor communication from Bafang and STILL after all this time no linking of serial numbers to changes in the motors. Die thread, DIE!