Trouble shoot me!

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Stu Summer   100 W

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Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Mar 10 2021 10:48pm

I have an EZ front hub motor with a Cycle Analyst V2, a crank sensor, speed sensor and potentiometer (I think that is what its called. A knob at the handle bar determining how much assistance is available. 36V.

It was lent to a friend over the summer. It started to work intermittently. I thought it was the potentiometer. So I bought a throttle with the same 3 pin JST connector. I found that the phase wires and control wires plugs to the motor were loose. I plugged them in firmly. I tried unplugging everything except the throttle to the controller and the controller to the motor. That worked for about 1 second and then stopped. Then I plugged the CA back in (along with the speedo to it), that "worked" for a millisecond and then stopped. I tried doing this with the wheel turning and the crank turning. Nothing.

Could anyone help me stepwise trouble shoot this? I have a multimeter.

Thanks!
2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by goatman » Mar 11 2021 3:20am

you have a dmm, whats the battery voltage

Stu Summer   100 W

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Mar 11 2021 8:46am

39.4 v, though I don't know what dnm stands for.
2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

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E-HP   10 MW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by E-HP » Mar 11 2021 10:38am

Stu Summer wrote:
Mar 11 2021 8:46am
39.4 v, though I don't know what dnm stands for.
digital multimeter.


Did you try plugging the "potentiometer" in again after messing with the wire connections? If you determined that is wasn't the pot, then you should proceed one step at a time. Why did you think it was the issue originally; were there symptoms you observed?

Stu Summer   100 W

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Mar 11 2021 3:29pm

It seemed like when you wiggled it sometimes it worked again. But never consistently.

I don't know if the system uses the speed sensor on the wheel or the crank movement sensor to turn on assist. Does anyone?
2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

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E-HP   10 MW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by E-HP » Mar 11 2021 4:10pm

Can you post of picture of this "potentiometer" ? If it really is a pot and not a type of throttle, then a regular hall sensor based throttle may not be a good replacement.

goatman   100 MW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by goatman » Mar 11 2021 6:01pm

id put the multi meter probes in the controller/battery connector, turn on bike, watch the voltage on the multi meter, turn throttle and see if voltage goes to zero

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amberwolf   100 GW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by amberwolf » Mar 11 2021 8:27pm

Stu Summer wrote:
Mar 10 2021 10:48pm
Could anyone help me stepwise trouble shoot this?
Yes, but you will need to answer the questions below in detail to give enough information to start the process. ;)

Without knowing much about how the bike is actually setup to work, the best recommendation I would have is to verify all of the wires and connectors everywhere on the bike are actually fully connected and able to pass signals.

The most common problem is corrosion within connectors, which can sometimes be removed by unplugging and replugging them all several times, being careful to only pull on the connector shells, and never on the wires.

The next most common is loose contacts in the plugs, where when you plug them in the contacts back out and just barely touch or don't touch at all.

Then there are broken wires, either inside the cabling, or right at the back of the connectors or at the exit from any housing or box or controller, etc., where flexing tends to stress the wires.

The next most common is damage to the axle wiring right at the axle exit. You may not be able to see this if it is pinched inside the cable housing, but there is testing that may reveal it if necessary.
Cycle Analyst V2,
V2, or v3? It will give you the exact version when you turn it on. What does that screen say?
(with no answer, it is safest to assume it is a v3.x and is setup for cadence PAS and no throttle, with the knob being on the aux input controlling speed limit or current limit)
a crank sensor
Which specific type? Is it one of those rings on the pedal crankshaft that just monitors cadence (how fast you pedal)? Or is it one of those inside the frame that replaces the pedal crankshaft and monitors torque and cadence?
Does this connect to the CA, or to the controller?
Which specific connector does it plug into?
(with no answer, it's safest to assume it plugs into the CA's PAS input connector, and that it is just a cadence sensor)
speed sensor
Is this on one of the wheels? Just the little stick-type with a magnet on a spoke?
Does this connect to the CA, or to the controller?
Which specific connector does it plug into?
(with no answer, it's safest to assume it is wired directly to teh back of the CA and is the wheelmounted stick with spoke magnet)

and potentiometer (I think that is what its called. A knob at the handle bar determining how much assistance is available.
Does this connect to the CA, or to the controller?
Which specific connector does it plug into?
(with no answer, it is safest to assume it is connected to the CA's aux input and setup in the menus to control speed limit or current limit)
It started to work intermittently.
What specifically does this mean? Did it work on some days but not others? Or did it work under some conditions but not others? Or did it work unpredictably for unpredictable amounts of time? Or something completely different?

Do you have any information about whether it was crashed or fell over or experienced any particular thing or when the problem actually started? Any information could lead to the source of the problem (though it might not).

I thought it was the potentiometer. So I bought a throttle with the same 3 pin JST connector.

First, disconnect that, and put the potentiometer back. They don't do the same things (or generally work the same way, if it's a hall based throttle which is the most common kind) and wouldn't connect to the same place, unless this is a much different setup than any I've seen before. The assist level pot (if it is one, and not a rotary switch for presets) is most likely connected to the aux-in of the CA and is most likely setup to change either the speed limit or the current limit, but could be any number of other things.

FWIW, just because it has the same connector doesn't mean it's wired the same, so unless you've already verified that the throttle is outputting the correct changing voltage range on it's signal wire when connected to that same JST as the knob, it could even be that it is connected so that it cant' output anything and cant' control the amount of assist, and may be locking out all assist just by being plugged in).


Once we have figured out how the bike is wired and setup to operate, we can start working out which parts are working and which are not.

Stu Summer   100 W

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Mar 11 2021 11:21pm

thanks guys and especially Amberwolf. I will work on this tomorrow.
2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

AngryBob   1 kW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by AngryBob » Mar 17 2021 9:19am

I would suggest some in-depth discussion with your friend on just exactly what he did to eff up your ebike.
"Not being treated like a dumb dick is one of the incentives we have to become less stupid." - Balmorhea.

Stu Summer   100 W

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Mar 31 2021 1:14pm

Amberwolf, thanks for the detailed questions. I will try to answer them. I wiggled and checked all of the original connections (took the throttle addition out of the picture). This set up has a pedal/motion detector on the crank that goes directly to the controller. It is one of those rings that slips on the outside of the crank and has a detector mounted at the bottom of the seat tube. I sanded off the metal contacts a bit but they seemed fine. The potentiometer also goes straight to the controller. I picture is below. The CycleAnalyst is connected straight to the controller with the speed detector on the wheel going straight to the CA. The CA is version 2.23.



The system is set up so that one has to be pedaling and moving (wheel spinning) in order for the assist to come on. This curious thing happens: Nearly every time I switch on the power (CA lights up, red led shines on controller) and then pedal and spin the wheel, the motor clicks on for maybe 1/10th of a second. It is almost every time. This is with no deliberate wiggling any wires or connectors. It seems like an important clue.

Thanks again for your guidance!
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IMG_0662.jpg
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2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

Stu Summer   100 W

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Posts: 120
Joined: Apr 27 2016 8:01pm
Location: Hillsdale, NY

Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Mar 31 2021 3:23pm

Update: The EZEE controller LED is flashing 4 times, then stopping, then 4 times.....
2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

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E-HP   10 MW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by E-HP » Mar 31 2021 9:12pm

Stu Summer wrote:
Mar 31 2021 1:14pm
The system is set up so that one has to be pedaling and moving (wheel spinning) in order for the assist to come on. This curious thing happens: Nearly every time I switch on the power (CA lights up, red led shines on controller) and then pedal and spin the wheel, the motor clicks on for maybe 1/10th of a second. It is almost every time. This is with no deliberate wiggling any wires or connectors. It seems like an important clue.

Thanks again for your guidance!
Can you unplug the Cycle Analyst DP plug from the controller, and then try it?

Stu Summer   100 W

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by Stu Summer » Apr 02 2021 5:14pm

E-hp, I unplugged the CA and tried it. It did the same exact thing: a 1/10 second surge and then nothing, with the controller still flashing those 4 LED flashes.
2013 DB Haanjo Commuter with BBSHD and Zzipper fairing
Marin Rift Zone FS with BBSHD
Kysmo "lab" bike with 350w hub motor
Ryan Vanguard recumbent LWB with a 36v Cyclone 350w middrive and a 56v MAC 5t in the front hub.

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E-HP   10 MW

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Re: Trouble shoot me!

Post by E-HP » Apr 02 2021 5:34pm

Stu Summer wrote:
Apr 02 2021 5:14pm
E-hp, I unplugged the CA and tried it. It did the same exact thing: a 1/10 second surge and then nothing, with the controller still flashing those 4 LED flashes.
Makes sense. Reading the manual, seems like the Cycle Analyst V2.23 shouldn't be a factor, unless it had a short, or was limiting throttle output. Since unplugging it made no difference, then neither is the case, so it's narrowed to a controller or motor problem.

I would check the resistance on the potentiometer leads, and move the knob to see if it works as expected. Potentiometers can get dirty, causing intermittent contact, so you may need to replace it with a similar unit (the outer two leads should tell you the resistance of the pot). Given that it ran before, and became intermittent, I wouldn't change any of the wiring, but just check that nothing is loose.

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