Hello all, I'm new to forum and ebikes. Excuse my lack of Tech knowledge. Anyhow I got a new conversion on a

sean02ie

1 mW
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Hello all, I'm new to forum and ebikes. Excuse my lack of Tech knowledge. Anyhow I got a new conversion on a reasonably light Hybrid bike. Motor Bafang HD 1000watt Battery 48volt Litium ion. controller set to Max speed 50KPH. Front Chain ring 46T Rear 7 speed 14 . 32 . Also with kit spare 44 & 42 chainrings.Slick tyres. My weight 80 K. Weight of bike pls Panniers 26 Kilos.

What I'm trying to achieve is Maximun Range flatish terrain. over 100 Kms an average speed of 18 to 25 KMS. It will be possible on tour to top up charge for one hour during Lunch stop.

Any opinions on optimum set up ( i.e. reducing max speed to 25KPH At present minimun with easy pedelling at Level 1 is 28KPH. which for touring is not necessary. or reducing Chainring to 44 ? ) would be very much appreciated.
Regard pedal assist I'm happy to pedal contineous for hours and turn of motor on downhills.

Look forward to your comments
Sean
Ireland
 
Some of the stock bafang programming I've seen starts level 1 at 30% of the total available current/assist. which means even at your lowest assist level you're sucking up a lot of electricity. you don't need 30% to ride on flat ground. With a 50lb, 2.8" tired mt bike, I can comfortably maintain 15+ mph on flat pavement with my level 3 or 4 (which is only 9 or 15% of current). And I haven't maxed out my range yet, but from test rides, I estimate I could go at least 30+ miles in the above scenario (with a 52v 8ah battery).

So I'd suggest getting a programming cable to reconfigure your controller. These are the settings I used which let you really fine tune in the amount of pedalling assist you get:

kzEJgiS.png
 
A smaller chainring would help, it reduces stress on the battery. If the fastest you ever go when passing someone is 28 MPH, then theres no need to be able to run 35-MPH. Maybe try a 36T chainring, or something close?

It wouldn't be a big improvement, but it couldn't hurt.
 
Battery details
output42V DC, 2.0A
MAX RECHARGABLE BATT. CAPASITY 8 - 15AH
BATT. TYPE SAN36V

thanks for comments re Gear ratio. and lower max speed in level 1. I do feel that with optimum settings and smart contineus pedal assist I should be able to achieve a 100km range on flatish roads.
regards
Sean
 
sean02ie said:
Battery details
output42V DC, 2.0A
MAX RECHARGABLE BATT. CAPASITY 8 - 15AH
BATT. TYPE SAN36V

thanks for comments re Gear ratio. and lower max speed in level 1. I do feel that with optimum settings and smart contineus pedal assist I should be able to achieve a 100km range on flatish roads.
regards
Sean

So you stated that it's a 48V battery, but your details seem to indicated a 36V battery (fully charged 10S/36V battery would be 42V)
And a capacity of 8-15Ah doesn't make sense. If it's 8Ah, then you may struggle to get 100km; if it's 15Ah you could do it if you pedal a lot.

8Ah @ 36V would be 288Wh of energy
15A @ 36V would be 540Wh of energy

On the other hand, if the battery can only provide 2A of current, then you'd only be able to pull 72W from the battery, so something is off with the specs.
 
sean02ie said:
Battery details
output42V DC, 2.0A
MAX RECHARGABLE BATT. CAPASITY 8 - 15AH
BATT. TYPE SAN36V

The text above is not what is typically labelled on a *battery*, but it *is* what is usually on a *charger*.

Additionally, that information is not for a 48v charger, but is for a 36v charger. If you are using this charger on a 48v battery, then it will just about never charge it at all, as the typical LVC for a 48v battery (at least at the controller) is about 42v, which is about the full voltage of a 36v battery (and is what that charger will output).


Please attach images of the actual item the label is on, and of the label itself, so we can help you figure out which part is which, and what each items actually specifications are. If you also provide links to the pages you bought the actual items from then we can get more information directly from those pages, as well.
 
Hello All and thanks for your patience. Amberwolf your right regarding misleading specs. I copied these from leaflet that came with kit but now suspect it referred to a lesser Bafang.
So this is the info from the labels on my converted Bafang Kit.

Motor BBS - HD 48V 1000 W NO.1706020006
CONTROLER . BAFANG C961 ( SET FOR LEVELS 1,2,3.)
BATTERY HL DOWN TUBE TYPE .... LI - ION BATTERY 48V/14.5 AH
BATTERY CHARGER . SANS ELECTRONIC CO. MODEL SSLC109V55 INPUT AC 100 - 240 V - 2A MAX - 47 - 63 HZ
OUTPUT 54.6 V---2.0 A

CHAIN DRIVE BAFANG 46 T ( SPARES 44T AND 42T) ( 90% ON MY ROAD BIKE I RIDE A 40T)

TOTAL WEIGHT 24 KILOS ( 53 LBS)

AT PRESENT WITH EASY PEDAL ASSIST LEVEL 1. 28- 30 KPH LEVEL 2. 35 -40 KPH LEVEL 3 45 PLUS

TARGET AVERAGE OVER 100 KMS (63 MILES) FLATISH ROADS - SLICK TYRES

LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS
BEST REGARDS
SEAN O REILLY
 
So it only has 3 assist levels? In that case I think you'd definitely benefit from adding more levels with lower assist options.

The C961 looks like it supports 2-9 levels of assist. It seems easy to reconfigure the display, but I believe you actually have to reprogram the controller for it do anything. In which case you'll either need the bafang programming cable or find someone local to help. "Programming" is extremely easy, I'm confident almost anyone literate can do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN11he-3xyo&t=122s

https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-Programming-Cable-Electric-Bicycle/dp/B07JBZGDGT
 
I have the C965 controller, but it also came default set to three levels of PAS. PAS 1 would run up to 30 km/hour, It was easy to change it to 9 levels by changing set-up parameters in the display. Look up the C961 and you'll find out how its done. With 9 levels, that lowered PAS 1 to about 20-22 km/hour, on a BBS02.
 
Good morning all, Sorry if I did not follow up on your most helpful suggestions. I hope to take delivery of Bafang programme cable as suggested this week. Perhaps then, I can follow up on your suggestions or ask for more advice. I am convinced that with your help I can achieve my target of 65 ish miles with pedal assist on my hybrid. + Bafang HD 1000 + 48v. Battery. Thanks again
Sean
Ireland
 
Bafang Cable Arrived at Last *Hope it'sthe correct one)

Firstly many thanks for all your helpfull suggestions.

To Recap what I've got is a Hybrid Tourer 14Kgs plus panniers about another 12 kgs. conersion with Bafang HD motor.

Motor BBS - HD 48V 1000 W NO.1706020006
CONTROLER . BAFANG C961 ( SET FOR LEVELS 1,2,3.)
BATTERY HL DOWN TUBE TYPE .... LI - ION BATTERY 48V/14.5 AH
BATTERY CHARGER . SANS ELECTRONIC CO. MODEL SSLC109V55 INPUT AC 100 - 240 V - 2A MAX - 47 - 63 HZ
OUTPUT 54.6 V---2.0 A

CHAIN DRIVE BAFANG 46 T ( SPARES 44T AND 42T)

TOTAL WEIGHT 24 KILOS ( 53 LBS)

AT PRESENT WITH EASY PEDAL ASSIST LEVEL 1.= 28- 30 KPH - LEVEL 2.= 35 -40 KPH -LEVEL 3= 45 PLUS

TARGET AVERAGE OVER 100 KMS (63 MILES) on FLATISH ROADS - SLICK TYRES with possibility of top up charge for one hour Lunch Stop .
Coar would you recommend your sugested settings for my 48v battery I note yours is a 52v.
Once again thatks everyone for your input.

Sean
Ireland
 

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sean02ie said:
Motor BBS - HD 48V 1000 W NO.1706020006
CONTROLER . BAFANG C961 ( SET FOR LEVELS 1,2,3.)
BATTERY HL DOWN TUBE TYPE .... LI - ION BATTERY 48V/14.5 AH
BATTERY CHARGER . SANS ELECTRONIC CO. MODEL SSLC109V55 INPUT AC 100 - 240 V - 2A MAX - 47 - 63 HZ

AT PRESENT WITH EASY PEDAL ASSIST LEVEL 1.= 28- 30 KPH - LEVEL 2.= 35 -40 KPH -LEVEL 3= 45 PLUS

Sean
Ireland

You can download the programming application here:
https://ufile.io/yu4ogvk8

And here's the source (so you can trust I'm not directly linking you to some malware)
https://penoff.me/2016/01/13/e-bike-conversion-software/

Before changing anything, I would note theoriginal configuration or take screenshots just in case you need to revert back.

The bafang programming is 48v by default so you shouldn't have to change anything related to the battery voltage. I just had to increase my low voltage cutoff (48v should be set at ~39v).

If you want 9 assist levels you can replicate my settings. This gives about as 'natural' of a cycling feel that I believe is possible with the BBS motors. Or if you only want 5 levels you could do some like Assist 1: 10%, assist 2: 25%, assist 3: 45%, assist 4: 70%, assist 5: 100%. You'll then need to change your display to allow the additional levels - I dropped a link to a video earlier in the thread.

If you have any questions or need more thorough explanations, let me know.

kzEJgiS.png
 
sean02ie said:
To Recap what I've got is a Hybrid Tourer 14Kgs plus panniers about another 12 kgs. conersion with Bafang HD motor.

Motor BBS - HD 48V 1000 W NO.1706020006
CONTROLER . BAFANG C961 ( SET FOR LEVELS 1,2,3.)
BATTERY HL DOWN TUBE TYPE .... LI - ION BATTERY 48V/14.5 AH
BATTERY CHARGER . SANS ELECTRONIC CO. MODEL SSLC109V55 INPUT AC 100 - 240 V - 2A MAX - 47 - 63 HZ
OUTPUT 54.6 V---2.0 A

CHAIN DRIVE BAFANG 46 T ( SPARES 44T AND 42T)

TOTAL WEIGHT 24 KILOS ( 53 LBS)

AT PRESENT WITH EASY PEDAL ASSIST LEVEL 1.= 28- 30 KPH - LEVEL 2.= 35 -40 KPH -LEVEL 3= 45 PLUS

TARGET AVERAGE OVER 100 KMS (63 MILES) on FLATISH ROADS - SLICK TYRES with possibility of top up charge for one hour Lunch Stop .
Let's start over with the fundamentals:
You want to travel 100km at 25km/h
Your hybrid tourer has CdA between 0.6-0.7, so it will require 160-180W to hold 25km/h. Let's use 175W.
175W motor / 80% efficiency = 220W battery
220W for 1 hour = 220Wh, at 25km/h = 25km traveled. 220Wh / 25km = 8.8Wh/km
Your battery is 48V * 14.5Ah = 696Wh battery
696Wh / 100km = 6.96Wh/km battery
8.8Wh/km required > 6.96Wh/km battery, so you can't do this on battery alone

If you contribute 100W, 175W-100W = 75W motor
75W motor / 80% efficiency = 95W battery
95W for 1 hour = 95Wh, at 25km/h = 25km traveled. 95Wh / 25km = 3.8Wh/km
3.8Wh/km required < 6.96Wh/km battery, so you can do this easily if you pedal at 100W


Let's work backwards. Let's say we want to complete the trip using all 696Wh in the battery, so we need to attain 6.96Wh/km.
6.96Wh/km * 25km/h = 175W battery
175W battery * 80% efficiency = 140W motor
175W required to hold 25km/h - 140W motor = 35W pedal
So if you pedal at 35W at 25km/h, you will make the 100km trip while using up all your battery

Let's check our math:
If you contribute 35W, 175W-35W = 140W motor
140W motor / 80% efficiency = 175W battery
175W for 1 hour = 175Wh, at 25km/h = 25km traveled. 175Wh / 25km/h = 7Wh/km
7Wh/km required = 6.96Wh/km battery
 
I appreciate your advice Fatty and your matamaticle expertise. Perhaps I mislead you with my target. Hopefully in July I'll. be touring with my son he's on road bike. We usually ride for six or seven hours. Netherlands mostly flat. At end of day average about 16kph. We also take one hour for lunch. (battery top up). This is my first ebike tour. I'm hoping after taking Coars suggestion of reconfiguring Level one assist to max at lower than present 28 kph it will get nearer target. Just trying to take pressure of my 76 y.o bones!!!! Best regards from Ireland
 
Minimal reconfigure went well. Level 1 setting reduce. Tested with contineus medium cadence. Result, After 61.5 Kms still had 2.5 bars of 3 left.. However put back on charge thinking one hour might give me full charge Green light. After four hours still Red and charger hot. Should this be a safety worry. Display indicates full charge.
Regards
Sean
 
sean02ie said:
I appreciate your advice Fatty and your matamaticle expertise. Perhaps I mislead you with my target. Hopefully in July I'll. be touring with my son he's on road bike. We usually ride for six or seven hours. Netherlands mostly flat. At end of day average about 16kph. We also take one hour for lunch. (battery top up). This is my first ebike tour. I'm hoping after taking Coars suggestion of reconfiguring Level one assist to max at lower than present 28 kph it will get nearer target. Just trying to take pressure of my 76 y.o bones!!!! Best regards from Ireland
Well, I showed that your bike will make it now, without charging, with just minimal pedaling (>35W) -- you don't have to change anything. If you want to be safe, set max assist to 25-28km/h.
 
Yes indeed Fatty much more confident now for my July Netherland/ Germany Tour. What do you think about the top up charge I mentioned?
Sean
 
sean02ie said:
Minimal reconfigure went well. Level 1 setting reduce. Tested with contineus medium cadence. Result, After 61.5 Kms still had 2.5 bars of 3 left.. However put back on charge thinking one hour might give me full charge Green light. After four hours still Red and charger hot. Should this be a safety worry. Display indicates full charge.
Regards
Sean

Glad to hear the reconfigure worked out. As far as lithium batteries go, it's safest to assume they can catch on fire when you least expect (even if the actual occurrence is extremely rare). Best practice is to store and charge somewhere where there's minimal risk of a larger fire starting (e.g. fireproof bag, concrete floor, etc). For the charger being hot I'd say that's normal as long as it's not too hot to touch. The red/green charger lights (and even the display) may not 100% accurate. Only way to be sure is to check with a multimeter.
 
Well thanks to you Coar and other help The first tweet on level one settings got me to 70kmss on 50% Battery. Now I have replaced 46T with 44T cháin wheel and the hope is even better Range?. My Bafang Charger is really slow taking 5 hours to top up a 50% full battery it's only 2v I'm told if I upgrade charger to 3 or 4 v it will be better. Regarding my July Tour it would be great to be able to top up at lunch break particuatly on days riding bigger milage.
Is there a particular Battery charger make you would recommend?.
I appreciate all your help and patience.
Sean
 
You want to optimize your pedaling cadence (i.e. make it comfortable) given your riding conditions. This is easy with modern drivetrains that provide wide gear ranges, but if your bike only has 7 speeds, you're a bit more limited. I would try to see what gear you generally ride in the most. If you're frequently in or near the lowest/biggest cog, you'd benefit with a smaller chainring. And conversely, if you're frequently in or near the smallest/highest cog, you'd be better served with a bigger chainring. Personally, I prefer to err on the side of a smaller chainring - better to deal with a lower top speed than walk your bike (or drain your battery in the case of an e-bike) once it's too steep to pedal.

If possible you could also swap out the smallest cog on your cassette - change the 14T for an 11T, and this would give you a considerably larger gear range.

I'm using the Luna advanced charger and I'm happy with it so far. I wouldn't say it's worth shipping that across the pond, especially since it's likely just some generic Chinese product with a Luna sticker slapped on it. There's also a charger called the "Satiator" which has good reviews but I find the price tag excessive for a casual hobby.
 
sean02ie said:
My Bafang Charger is really slow taking 5 hours to top up a 50% full battery it's only 2v I'm told if I upgrade charger to 3 or 4 v it will be better.

Introducing the math stuff again to set expectations. Your charger is rated at 2A; your battery is rated for 14.5 Ah. If you use half of your battery capacity, or 7.25Ah, it will take at least 7.25/2 = 3.65 hours ideally to top off, and then balance (if you charge to full, which a lot of people don't for battery longevity) will take additional time. You can't rely on a battery charge indicator with three bars as giving you any useful information about how much capacity is left. Those indicators are using voltage to determine the remaining charge capacity, which may provide a ballpark, but it would be better to know the actually resting voltage, if using that method. Another after the fact insight is to see how long it takes to charge and do the math to see how much capacity you had to replace to get to full charge, or run to empty a couple of times for a real world test.

You could upgrade to a faster charger IF your pack can handle a faster charge rate. To determine that, it would either be in the specs (which doesn't appear to be the case), or by knowing what kind of BMS and/or cells are used to make up the pack. You don't want to exceed the maximum charge rate in order not to kill the pack prematurely.
 
Thanks very interesting, I took exactly 8 hours to recharge battery and you right about controller indicator. At 100 Kms it showed 1.5 bars at 105 it flashed níl.
I stopped cycling before the motor died at 113kms. I'm happy with that knowing that most days of July tours less than 90kms. And I might be able to bike alongside my Son he's on road bike. I have emailed SAANS asking if they have a 3 or 4 v charger that would be sake to use on my 48v battery. I worry about using amazon type alternatives.
Best regards
Sean
 
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