BaseRunner z9 problems

noctrin

1 mW
Joined
May 10, 2022
Messages
15
I replaced my original lishui controller with a baserunner z9, it has much higher ratings.

I loaded defaults from grin (they had the motor listed).
It uses a hall for start.

With the new controller, the start is very rough - the motor will shake/rumble, it feels like a pulsating force rather than a smooth one. If it encounters any resistance, i can hear it click and shake quite roughly.

I've seen this with the previous controller when starting uphill and i wasn't helping it, but with the baserunner it will always be rough when starting, even on flat.

It runs butter-smooth once it starts spinning though, especially in the higher rpms.

The new controller provides significantly more power and torque once the motor spins. They have a section in the manual dedicated to this but only for sensorless start, mine would be using the hall, so there's really nothing i can go on. I tried to do it sensorless, but it was much worse.

Troubleshooting i performed:

checked wiring
checked hall operation (i can see hall sensors activate in the phaserunner software)
tried adjusting wattage
performed autotune on motor (got different values than grin supplied ones)
tried to raise the power
tried to switch from hall start to sensorless (was much worse)
checked A draw from battery on start -- very low ~1-3A, i know phase currents and A draw are not exactly 1:1.

My best guess is it seems this controller cuts out current if it doesnt detect the motor spinning and tries to start it again, i see a config for motor stall timeout which i set to max (250ms).

Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
Best guess is the controller is not correctly setup for your specific motor (despite having loaded the settings for it from their list, and even the autotune). If htey have different windings for that motor, for instance, one winding version would basically be a different motor than a different winding version, as far as the kV, winding resistance, and winding inductance go (the three things that all the FOC controllers I have had any experience with need in order to correctly operate a motor).

I don't know the BR well enough to give specifics, but if the controller's autotune is not correctly detecting any of those (or perhaps even the hall/phase order), it could do what you see, as well, so you may have to try manually tuning the values, just a touch up or down for one at a time, and then see if it gets better or worse.

If the controller has info that's "close" it may do what you see, run fine once going, up to a certain speed at least, but have trouble under high loads especially at low speeds.

Wrong phase/hall combination can also cause this, but since you get the same thign (but worse) in sensorless, that's probably not the problem.
 
I appreciate the advice,

I tried to mess with the values and they seem to have absolutely no effect on starting, feels like it does its own "pre-set" thing using the hall sensors and doesnt care much for those values, pretty much nothing except trying sensorless does anything.

There are a few hundred flags in the parameter window with cryptic meanings, i hope one of those those something. I emailed grin, hopefully i'll hear back.

Thank you, was a good attempt :D
 
Thats good they had the tune loaded for your motor, but even the best of the best can make mistakes. If you can understand each parameter, its a doable check, poles etc. My next big purchase is going to be a Runner. I am planning a trip around going to their HQ. Thinking about it, a day or two ago I saw a quad cycle but I couldn't tell if it was electric. It just reinforced its not what I am into, but Justin sure is all that and more. Sail boats, Sun Tour Europe in his custom made row boat/pedal cycle. Gotta live a life man, his seems like a fun one.

I was just going to say there are a many here deep into the Runners controller.

TBH in order to get more useful advice, change your title to BaseRunner Problems

noctrin said:
I replaced my original lishui controller with a baserunner z9, it has much higher ratings.

I loaded defaults from grin (they had the motor listed).
It uses a hall for start.

With the new controller, the start is very rough - the motor will shake/rumble, it feels like a pulsating force rather than a smooth one. If it encounters any resistance, i can hear it click and shake quite roughly.

I've seen this with the previous controller when starting uphill and i wasn't helping it, but with the baserunner it will always be rough when starting, even on flat.

It runs butter-smooth once it starts spinning though, especially in the higher rpms.

The new controller provides significantly more power and torque once the motor spins. They have a section in the manual dedicated to this but only for sensorless start, mine would be using the hall, so there's really nothing i can go on. I tried to do it sensorless, but it was much worse.

Troubleshooting i performed:

checked wiring
checked hall operation (i can see hall sensors activate in the phaserunner software)
tried adjusting wattage
performed autotune on motor (got different values than grin supplied ones)
tried to raise the power
tried to switch from hall start to sensorless (was much worse)
checked A draw from battery on start -- very low ~1-3A, i know phase currents and A draw are not exactly 1:1.

My best guess is it seems this controller cuts out current if it doesnt detect the motor spinning and tries to start it again, i see a config for motor stall timeout which i set to max (250ms).

Any ideas would be appreciated.
 
I got a reply, figured it out -- somewhat:

If anyone ever gets this, basically, the controller tries to start in hall mode but if it doesnt get it spinning within like 1 sec, it falls back to sensorless, if you enabled that, otherwise it seems to just cut off.
 
noctrin said:
I got a reply, figured it out -- somewhat:

If anyone ever gets this, basically, the controller tries to start in hall mode but if it doesnt get it spinning within like 1 sec, it falls back to sensorless, if you enabled that, otherwise it seems to just cut off.


Did you find a solution? Are you just running sensorless?
 
What was the fix?

I have same issue on my Baserunner z10 on RadRunner running G62 Bafang. It had same issue on stock RadRunner motor. Sent parts to Grin for testing and they said all was fine when loaded up to 700 watts of resistance with a leather glove on the motor.
 
I have same issue on stock rad runner motor and the the Bafang G62 I thread into the wheel.

Any fix? Greatly appreciate any help. I even sent parts back to Grin for testing. I feel I have tried everything.
 
Same issue here with a Baserunner and motor off a Rattan LM750. I've just given up on it ever starting smoothly from a stop on its own. I kick off a little with my feet to get the bike rolling and controller works fine from there.
 
The below message from another thread helped a little. I raised the regen phase current and decided the max 70amps had best results for me. I now get some power while rolling backwards. It's raining so I have not gone for a ride. But before it was always no power when going backwards. This should help when I go from standstill uphill.


Re: Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run
by clarsengrin » Nov 08 2019 5:30pm

Hi Xorin,

The behaivour you are experiencing is due to you likely having the regen current to 0 amps. ASI's firmware, for some reason, requires that to be a nonzero value in order to power the motor while it's rolling backwards. Putting in even 1 amp for this setting should resolve your problem. Even if you don't have regen in your system, it's recommended to set the regen current to a nonzero value.
 
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