MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

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Should 2.50 Moped Tires Be Allowed In Motorized Bicycle Races?

Hell yes!
22
79%
WTF?! Hell no!
1
4%
What the hell do I care?
5
18%
 
Total votes: 28

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MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Jan 18 2012 11:29pm

Should 2.5" moped tires be allowed at Motorized Bicycle Races?

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Kingfish » Jan 19 2012 9:47am

I'm with Hell :twisted:

Actually though, I am surprised it is an issue. For myself, the rear suspension of my present ebike can't take a tire wider than 2.5" anyways. However it seems to me that Moped tires are DOT-rated, yes? If that is the case, why wouldn't a person want to use a safer tire over less-rugged bicycle tires? If given the choice, I'd take the best option... <shrugs> Why be a stick in the mud?

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 19 2012 11:27am

I think it is preposterous and silly to limit the tires in a race event like this. Maybe down the road when you can have more classes.

I wouldn't go so far as to regulate any part of the tire size, width nor height. The Racers will find what works best for them, if only they had the chance.

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Thud » Jan 19 2012 11:43am

Hell's Bells!
The conversation allways decomposes to what best represents a "bicycle" 8)
they have moped racing already....& these powerd bikes need a line in the sand.

I won't say what they are...my opinions are already on the record.
The deal is, I will build to whatever the current rules are & have fun competeing.

As i interpret the current tire allowance.....you can run any tire (up to 2.5"w) that will fit rims commonly sold as bicycle components.
AFAIK that is a 16" tire on 20"rims...any one have a source for a common size bicycle rim that will accept the continental, contiforce (sm)120/70-17" (overkill really untill we start seeing >70mph entry speeds)

if there was to be some sort of "leveler" for the feild of competitors.....make it age classes & the bikes have to be pedaled for 1/2 the laps.....then its an athletic competition/motorsport.
get some......

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by gensem » Jan 19 2012 12:04pm

Im with the moped tires on all my builds now.
Btw we have a very good Michellin moped tire available in brazil, its called pilot sporty.
Last edited by gensem on Jan 19 2012 12:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 19 2012 12:49pm

So thud, if I came out with a rim that was made for "bicycles" but used motorcycle ISO standards for beadset, how would people react that want only bicycle parts?

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Thud » Jan 19 2012 2:18pm

John,
If you did that & advertise those wheels on all the motored bike forums, you would fill a very empty niche.

Every motored bike forum has a thread with someone looking for DOT rated tires & rims that can take a hit.
& it would really add validity to & the acceptance of decent tires.

(even the AGK rider will opt for pirrelis once he tries them...they don't even compair to Hookworms for inspiring confidence anywhere on the track)

Its just a few vocal guys who seem to think adding a motor to a bicycle doesn't make it a motorcycle.....but adding heavy tires do....whats a bicycle motor? whats a chainsaw engine.....does it matter?

whats the truth? there is no spoon.......& it is you who bends.
get some......

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 19 2012 2:45pm

Thud wrote:
Its just a few vocal guys who seem to think adding a motor to a bicycle doesn't make it a motorcycle.....but adding heavy tires do....whats a bicycle motor? whats a chainsaw engine.....does it .

Those folks are called idiots. :-)

You put any wheels you want on a BICYCLE, and you have a bicycle. Put monstertruck tires on a bicycle, and you have a monstertruck tired bicycle.

I actually remember a time when downhill mt biking was getting started, and people were first putting long travel dirtbike type suspension designs on bicycles along with 2-3in big knobby tires, and people were actually saying retarded crap like, "where do we draw thr line between a gravity powered and pedal powered dirtbike and a mountian bike? If we have dirtbike like tires and dirtbike like linkage suspension systems and dirtbike like disk brakes, when does it become a dirtbike with the engine removed and pedals put in its place."

And now we call it a downhill mt bicycle, the idiots have shut up, and what is obviously a bicycle continues to obviously be a bicycle.

The same thing will happen with tire drama. It hopefully wont take 5years of idiots arguing about tire choice not making it a bicycle, but whatever...
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Kingfish » Jan 19 2012 2:55pm

Two things:
Thud, thanks for the insight on the Continental Conti Force SM 120/70R 17 (found commonly on Amazon). Did you look at Excel Aluminum rims? They make a 17” x 2.5 wide 36-hole.

gensem, I would dig having Pilot Sporty here in the USA, but unless I become some uber-importer, it costs twice the value of the tire to try and get them in. But that is my first choice. :D

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by zombiess » Jan 19 2012 2:56pm

Don't forget about safety. Tires are pretty damn important for safety and the moped tires are a lot safer than bicycle tires when done right.

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Lyen » Jan 19 2012 2:59pm

I agreed with Zombiess, I voted motorcycle tires should be allowed because of the safety reason after witnessed bicycle tires on high power ebikes deformed from the last Grange race. You will see what I mean when you try to pull the brake lever from 50mph to 0mph and from 0mph to 30mph in 3 seconds. It also helps lower the insurance cost for the upcoming events in a long run. :wink:
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by gensem » Jan 19 2012 6:13pm

Kingfish wrote:Two things:
Thud, thanks for the insight on the Continental Conti Force SM 120/70R 17 (found commonly on Amazon). Did you look at Excel Aluminum rims? They make a 17” x 2.5 wide 36-hole.

gensem, I would dig having Pilot Sporty here in the USA, but unless I become some uber-importer, it costs twice the value of the tire to try and get them in. But that is my first choice. :D

~KF
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 19 2012 6:22pm

The downside to those excel rims is the weight, they are very thick walled rims as compared to moped or bicycle.

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by liveforphysics » Jan 19 2012 6:30pm

Saves money to go to moped/scooter tires.

Increases safety from better reliability.

Reduces cost to race and practice for races because tires can last for years rather than days.

Improves races because less tire failures means more racers on the track doing what they came to do, racing, rather than dicking around with tires.

Better handling limits enable riders and bikes better at handling to have bigger advantages over bikes with more power.



Can anyone out there think of a remotely rational argument against? It seems the only reason I've ever heard isn't a reason or argument at all, but just "It doesn't look like a bicycle to me with those tires"...
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 19 2012 6:32pm

The biggest concern I hear is either weight or too small of radius to work with current gearing. Both are obviously easy to work around, but some people don't like change I guess.

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Joseph C. » Jan 19 2012 6:33pm

Someone is very obsessed by the fiery place. :mrgreen: Have the safest tyres possible.
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Stevil_Knevil » Jan 20 2012 1:13am

Thanks to everyone that chose to vote and contribute to this open discussion!
The goal is to help define what tires will be considered safe and legal to run at these events.
Neil, the event organizer, indicated that the decision whether to open up the option of running moped tires would be up to the participants, and since there are more than a few racers here that have experience competing at his events on bicycle tires, YOU are the field and as such ..your feedback and suggestions are valuable.

-Compared to moped tires, bicycle tires are much lighter, and will provide lower rolling resistance largely due to their narrow contact patch.
-Compared to bicycle tires, moped tires are 3+ times the weight of bicycle tires, and have considerably higher rolling resistance, primarily because of their wider contact patch.

Opting for one or the other will have it's advantages and disadvantages. The biggest one that occurs to me is -while inherently safer and longer lasting in aggressive 40+ MPH riding- moped tires might prove to be a bit of a handicap because of the power lost in overcoming the added weight and rolling resistance that they provide, in effect, increased weight-to-power ratio.

Those opting for bicycle tires may even end up having the advantage :roll:

I voted Hell yes to allowing moped tires!

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 20 2012 11:22am

I would like to see some actual data on rolling resistance, I'm not convinced that all bicycle tires roll better. Moped tires are made as narrow as 2.0.

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Ypedal » Jan 20 2012 12:37pm

If your " bike " be it whatever category it falls into, has enough power on tap to make proper use of motorcycle tires, i say have at it.... if the bike as a whole is not allowed to compete it should not be because of the tires. ( like welding pedals to a Hayabusa and calling it a bicycle :lol: )

If someone wants to bring a rediculously powerfull machine to a race, and ride it reasonably safely, i say " Go for it ! ".. even it if laps everythig else on the track.. it's what competition is all about.

A less powerfull bike is best on bicycle tires, lighter is always better until you reach a certain power level, it's all proportional.

motored bicycle racing is still a relatively small group of fun seeking individuals, less rules make for more fun, when there starts to bee too many heads and splitting into groups is required, then rules have to be applied and classes made.. but for the time being... it's all about the fun imo.

Hell, if this was in range and i could make it, atm, i'd take my 9C motored 100v BMX to the track !
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Alan B » Jan 20 2012 1:05pm

Let's see.

Two wheels in tandem.

Handlebar steering.

Saddle seat.

Working Pedals for propulsion.

A person can easily lift it.

Brakes for safety.

Sounds like a bicycle.

Tires should fit the wheels and be sturdy enough for safety. Flimsy tires that are prone to failure should be disallowed for safety. Heavy tires and rims are a disadvantage, so the tendency will be toward light tires for best performance. If anything, some bicycle tires might be considered unsafe if they fail on the track.

Moped tires for the heavier and more powerful bikes just make sense from a safety and reliability standpoint. I commuted to college on a moped for a few years and thousands of miles and I rarely had to concern myself with the tires. They were safe and reliable. They didn't get frequent flats like bike tires do. I plan to use them on my next ebike (Michelin Gazelle 2.5-17). The tires are already in hand, waiting on the rims which have been ordered. It will be a commuter ebike and reliability is important. I would like to be able to bring it to a MBR event, so I hope the tires don't become an issue. I can't readily change them or keep another set of wheels for this bike.

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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by Joseph C. » Jan 20 2012 2:14pm

Stevil_Knevil wrote:Thanks to everyone that chose to vote and contribute to this open discussion!
The goal is to help define what tires will be considered safe and legal to run at these events.
Neil, the event organizer, indicated that the decision whether to open up the option of running moped tires would be up to the participants, and since there are more than a few racers here that have experience competing at his events on bicycle tires, YOU are the field and as such ..your feedback and suggestions are valuable.

-Compared to moped tires, bicycle tires are much lighter, and will provide lower rolling resistance largely due to their narrow contact patch.
-Compared to bicycle tires, moped tires are 3+ times the weight of bicycle tires, and have considerably higher rolling resistance, primarily because of their wider contact patch.

Opting for one or the other will have it's advantages and disadvantages. The biggest one that occurs to me is -while inherently safer and longer lasting in aggressive 40+ MPH riding- moped tires might prove to be a bit of a handicap because of the power lost in overcoming the added weight and rolling resistance that they provide, in effect, increased weight-to-power ratio.

Those opting for bicycle tires may even end up having the advantage :roll:

I voted Hell yes to allowing moped tires!
All other things being equal, the wider the tyre is - the better it will roll as it will deform less than a narrow tyre. The thing that makes narrow tyres faster (with lower rolling resistance) is that they can take higher pressures. But at the same pressures the wider tyre has less rolling resistance. It is the higher pressure that makes them roll better not the width.

Edited to make it comprehensible.
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by SoSauty » Jan 21 2012 12:21pm

From Motorized Bike forum, Sept 2011:
MotorBicycleRacing

Re: So Cal Race on Oct. 22 at Grange

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One of the few race rules is no motorcycle tires. Here is an update
allowing 20" Pirelli ML 75 tires to be used.

etard # 101 ebike rider at the June 18th Willow Springs Race
used these 20" Pirelli ML 75 Moped tires on standard bicycle rims.

Pirelli ML75 Scooter Tires - KneeDraggers.com
These tires are inexpensive and should be long lasting. One
of the reasons for not allowing motorcycle tires is the cost.
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Re: MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 21 2012 10:51pm

Cost????? When a hookworm is $40 at the lbs and a plethora of $15 to $40 "moped' tires exist....


:lol:

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