What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

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teslanv
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What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by teslanv » Mar 29, 2014 11:58 am

What is your favorite Direct Drive (Gearless) Hub Motor Manufacturer and what suppliers you choose to purchase from.

I'd like to keep the scope of the topic to motors rated for 500W - 3000W.

The List I have complied so far includes:
Please include motor manufacturer and your vendor of choice and a brief comment on why you like them.

Thanks!

[edit 3.30.14] Including these write-ups on DD Hub motors on electricbike.com:

"Nine Continent Hub Motor 9C Review": http://www.electricbike.com/9c/
"Hot Rodding your Hub Motor": http://www.electricbike.com/modified-hub-motor/
"Hub Motor Repair & Upgrade": http://repair.electricbike.com/?p=45
"Crushing Pikes Peak With a Hub Motor; on a $1,600 Electric Bike": http://www.electricbike.com/hub-motor-pikes-peak/
Last edited by teslanv on Mar 30, 2014 11:42 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by nicobie » Mar 29, 2014 1:15 pm

I like the clyte 3525 for systems 75v and higher
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by snellemin » Mar 29, 2014 4:14 pm

The Magic Pie II from Goldenmotors is a underrated motor, with a lot of torque.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 29, 2014 5:43 pm

Each choice has specific benefits and drawbacks, that being said...the Magic Pie has the option of cast wheels with no spokes, which is an issue when you start moving into larger diameter DD motors...

The width of the stator is a rough indication of the copper fill, and that is a rough indicator of their relative abilities to absorb amps.

28mm__9C/MXUS/yescomusa
35mm__Crystalyte H3525/H35XX
40mm__Crystalyte 4080/4060 (very similar to the H35XX, thin stamped steel core)
40mm__Crown (also, it has thick aluminum stator core which allows it to absorb temporary heat spikes)
50mm__Cromotor (widest stator, also thick aluminum stator core)

Anyone have any info on the stator-width (and diameter) on the Magic Pie?

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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by neptronix » Mar 29, 2014 7:53 pm

Magic pie is my favorite DD hub motor by far. If i was doing a really high power build though, the crystalyte HS4080 would be my second choice.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by alsmith » Mar 29, 2014 8:17 pm

what is the / is there an aim behind this request- are you looking for a motor? I'm not sure how many people would say anything but good stuff about the motor they have- generally people will think that their choice is the best, you kind of always justify what you got. Or how many people have owned the various makes and models.

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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by teslanv » Mar 29, 2014 11:14 pm

I'm just trying to get a sense of who likes what. - If there is a brand or supplier that stands out as being better than the rest. Best quality. Best Value. Best for "modding". Best for going down in a blaze of glory. :twisted:
Last edited by teslanv on Mar 30, 2014 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by Eskimo » Mar 30, 2014 12:32 am

I don"t have much experience yet but MXUS at least seems to be reliable. 5000km full soon, it works like a clock with 48V.
This "antiwater" controller does not burn caps if you feed it with overvoltage (i have tried). It just simply refuses to switch itself on, like there would be some kind of limiter somewhere.
You can give it 60V and it just won"t turn on. Then with 48V it works again.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by xenodius » Mar 30, 2014 1:14 am

Ohh, favorite DD motor thread!... Aww, limited to 3kw... =) I think after riding a few bikes I'd prefer to have either a ~8+kw DD motor or a ~1kw mid-drive. When you can regen brake, the extra power handling is great for in-town... accelerate fast, regen fast. But without regen, 1kw is a ton of power-- near the limit for a long-lasting bike drivetrain; perfect for touring, though. Just my opinion for my purposes.

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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by teslanv » Mar 30, 2014 1:18 am

We noobs gotta get our training wheels before we step up to a Cromotor :wink:
For the record, I love my Mid Drive. Power for hills and speed for the flats. - But I need to get the full experience of an ebike with a DD hub.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by dogman dan » Mar 30, 2014 6:54 am

Well, uh, which golden motor?

5 or six of your choices are more or less the exact same motor. That is, the 9 continent, 9 continent clone. Some object to the term clone. But in the end, it's basically the same motor, if the windings are the same.

They are so similar, you can swap stators between brands. They are all the dinner plate size motor with a 28mm magnet. They all thrive on 1500w, and can take 3000w if you keep the rides short enough. I must have more than 10,000 miles of commuting miles, mostly on these motors in either 9c or muxus brand.

Within the type, my favorites have been the slower windings. The 2810 winding was perfect for my commute. Though my commute was long, It was nice to have the greater range that resulted from slower travel, and less wasted energy on steep hills and stop signs. I ran it mostly on 48v 20 amps to keep it slow and efficient. 20 mph max speed, ideal for my commute route that was 75% multi use path or slow speed limit residential streets.

But for FUN, that same 2810 winding wails at 3000w, 72v 40 amps. Then you get 30 mph back, and really can climb steep hills with a cool motor, or just leave a stop sign grinning.

For off road riding, even better has been a super slow 2812 winding. I can still melt one, but it takes a real effort on trails that shake your bike to pieces. On a less rough trail, you simply cannot overheat one if you can maintain 15 mph.

I ran the muxus 2810 on my cargo bike too for a time, and was considering dual motors for it. But when I got a crystalyte 5304 motor, the cargo bike began to really shine. This monster of a 25 pound motor feels awkward to me on a regular bike, but on a frankenbike that weighs 100 pounds sans motor or battery, it's weight is barely noticed. This well known entry into the early monster bike hubmotor category just kicks ass for a cargo bike. But, it's capable of 5000w, so it's not really part of this 3000w and less discussion.

Back to the 28 mm motor subject, the typical winding is a 2807. That winding is real nice too, but it tended to leave me using 100% of my battery on my long commute. It really is a good winding for people intending to run 36v. On 36v, about 23 mph of speed, just within the pedal cadence of a bike with 48 front 14 rear gearing.

The majority of the vendors I know of tend to sell the 7 turn, 2808, 9x7 winding in the kits. A few might have slower versions, or faster versions in their lineup. E-BikeKit has a slower motor trike kit for example. The place that really has a selection of different winding speeds in all the motors sold is EM3ev. I believe he stocks the 10 turn muxus.

I always wanted to try the 2808 or 8x8 winding, but never got a hold of one. I really think that would be the ideal winding for use in the USA. Especially in places serious about a 20 mph rule. It would climb slightly better, and leave stop signs slightly more efficient than a 2807, and still reach 19 mph on 36v.

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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by Drunkskunk » Mar 30, 2014 8:56 am

you realy only have 2 motor manufacturers to pay any attention to in that list: Crystalyte, and 9 Continents. All the other manufacturers are producing a clone of the 9C. MXUS and Golden motor make their own motors that are so close of a copy that parts are interchangable as Dogman said. the other vendors are likely reselling one of the 9C/MXUS/GM motors


Crystalyte makes a better quality motor. However, the HS2540 is anemic compared to the 9C clones, and the HS/HT35XX motors are bigger and heavier, though more powerfull. So there is no direct comparison between the brands.

The best current 500w motor (often sold as a 1000w kit) is the 9C and it's clones. I have several 9C and a MXUS. They provide great torque for the wattage used, good speed, good reliability, and can take some decent power with mods. You can push these motors to more power than a moped, which is more power than most bicycles should have going through their unmodified frames. So for most people, this is all the motor they will ever need.

When you want something heavy duty and have a quality bike to mount it on, you move up to the 35XX and 40XX Clytes.

When you build a quasi-motorcycle frame, you move up to the Cromotor, the Crown, or a 540X if you can get one.


But IMHO, the best motor isn't even sold anymore. The Crystalyte 408.
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by teslanv » Mar 30, 2014 8:58 am

dogman wrote:The place that really has a selection of different winding speeds in all the motors sold is EM3ev. I believe he stocks the 10 turn muxus.
I have looked seriously at the Mxus hubs at em3ev, and really like their MAC kits too.
The unfortunate thing is that it seems cellman is closing out the Mxus line. :(
em3ev wrote:The DD motor are almost finished, I only have a very few 335rpm motors, I will not be supplying them in the future once the remaining pieces are sold out.

Thanks
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by alsmith » Mar 30, 2014 9:38 am

Well, I've only had 2 motors- one brushed and UK legal, and now my 5300. Loved it apart from when I've had to pedal with no battery power. I've changed the halls after one failed, and changed the bearings to decent branded ones- the originals weren't shot but did have noticeable play after only a little over 1000 miles. Crystalyte Europe also sent the wrong winding but Lyens 18 FET controller handles the faster winding with ease and gets me up all the hills round here. I couldn't have wanted or expected more. Well, apart from the winding I'd ordered (trying not to add a few swear words here).

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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by teslanv » Mar 30, 2014 9:48 am

dogman wrote:
5 or six of your choices are more or less the exact same motor. That is, the 9 continent, 9 continent clone. Some object to the term clone. But in the end, it's basically the same motor, if the windings are the same.

They are so similar, you can swap stators between brands. They are all the dinner plate size motor with a 28mm magnet. They all thrive on 1500w, and can take 3000w if you keep the rides short enough. I must have more than 10,000 miles of commuting miles, mostly on these motors in either 9c or muxus brand.
If the 28mm magnet 9C clones are identical, then would there be any other factor to purchasing a bare motor (as opposed to a kit) other than price? - Are there any differences in the wire sizes and connections at the Phase wires and hall sensors between brands?

I am seriously thinking about buying the cheapest motor I can find, shipped to my door, and then upgrading the Phase wires to 12 ga. It seems like many ES guys have done this with good results...

And for kits - Does one vendor have better quality components (controller, throttle, ebrakes, etc.) or are they pretty much all the same as well?
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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by Drunkskunk » Mar 30, 2014 10:59 am

As for vendors and kits, there is a difference. Ebikes.ca is going to be the best quality kits and service. They only deal with high end parts, invented many of the things we commonly use andtheir after sales support is second to none.
A step down from that is EM3ev.com and Ebikekits.com who provide both excilent service and quality parts, along with things like hand laced wheels.
Below that the price gets cheaper, the parts source gets questionable, and the customer service evaporates. You may get a good deal from an ebay vendor and have a kit that lasts you many years. you may get a box of scrap metal and no response from the vendor when you ask them to take it back.
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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by davec » Mar 30, 2014 1:01 pm

had good experiences with 9c's but the clones all seem the same-used gm pro901 with success- clyte are pretty solid as well- curious about trying these 500w heinzmann DD but their like 700 /bucks.... also have been entertaining the idea of trying mini hubs for one of my road bikes

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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by tomjasz » Mar 31, 2014 7:56 pm

dogman wrote:Well, uh, which golden motor?

5 or six of your choices are more or less the exact same motor. That is, the 9 continent, 9 continent clone. Some object to the term clone. But in the end, it's basically the same motor, if the windings are the same.
A good read, could you translate that into specific vendors and models. I'm reading and trying, really I am... :oops:
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Re: What is your favorite Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by neptronix » Apr 01, 2014 1:37 am

That sucks!! cell_man's mxus line was how i got into ebikes because they had an el cheapo entry point...
Well, i think the magic pie is next in line for offering the best bang for the buck at the moment. You can get 9C clones in lots of places really cheap... but the magic pie will always whoop 'em :)
teslanv wrote:
dogman wrote:The place that really has a selection of different winding speeds in all the motors sold is EM3ev. I believe he stocks the 10 turn muxus.
I have looked seriously at the Mxus hubs at em3ev, and really like their MAC kits too.
The unfortunate thing is that it seems cellman is closing out the Mxus line. :(
em3ev wrote:The DD motor are almost finished, I only have a very few 335rpm motors, I will not be supplying them in the future once the remaining pieces are sold out.

Thanks
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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by dogman dan » Apr 01, 2014 6:16 am

Well, nobody listens to me when I say the muxus 2810 is a great motor. He's selling a lot of macs I guess. Same thing happened top Methods, when he had a stock of 10 and 12 turn 9c's. Nobody would buy them, yanks obsessed with going 40 mph. So I stocked up on them cheap. :mrgreen: :

I can't detail much about all the other types of 28 mm motors, because I never owned any. I can't tell you shit about how the wires are, except on the muxs, or the 9c brands. Wes seems to know the Yes line pretty good. He says the 1000w kit has the biggest wires.

I never had any problem melting motors without upgrading the phase wires in the axle, I just add 12g wire outside the hub, and keep the stock wire inside. IMO, no need to upgrade the wires beyond what will quickly melt the motor winding. Ideally, don't run these motors much past 2000w. They really can't be pushed to 3000w for a longer ride.

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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by xenodius » Apr 03, 2014 3:38 am

Take it from someone who has an ebike that has smoked every car I've raced at a stop up to highway speeds.

You don't need as much power as you think you do, unless you want to have senseless "fun".

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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by 11spokes » Apr 03, 2014 6:22 am

I used a washing machine motor worked quite well. the wife was spewin though :D

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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by teslanv » Apr 03, 2014 8:26 am

xenodius wrote:
You don't need as much power as you think you do, unless you want to have senseless "fun".
If cost is negligible, and bike handling/performance is not otherwise hindered by additional power, I say why the hell not. You don't have to use the power. - But you've got it if you want it.
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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by docnjoj » Apr 03, 2014 8:49 am

On the lower power end of the spectrum, my 9C clone from Ebikekit coupled with and S12S sine wave controller, is the ultimate in-town or paved bike trail combo. Dead silent (no grunts, groans or sizzles anymore) coupled with smooth power right up to it's speed limit (around 21 mph) in a 20 in Wheel @36 volts. I think with the Pedelec system installed (soon?) it would be even better than the throttle only that I am using now.
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Re: What is your favorite 500W-3000W Direct Drive Hub Motor?

Post by wineboyrider » Apr 03, 2014 9:06 am

I am seriously thinking about buying the cheapest motor I can find, shipped to my door, and then upgrading the Phase wires to 12 ga. It seems like many ES guys have done this with good results...
That would be yescomusa AFAIK a great 9c clone? or variant and I got mine for $280 delivered with a controller sla charger and bag. :P
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