What direction should the U.S. take for the future?

Previous discussions here left me curious how folks on ES stand on this issue.

What economic system should the US proceed with from this point?

Since many folks here do not want politics/religion here, I will respectfully ask that comments be made in the toxic forum, and just respond to the poll here.

This is what I thought was the case. No takers.

When it came to political issues here, most had criticism for the current policies, and defended the policies of socialist countries...but no one seems interested in stating that it should be the future direction of the world.

Better surveys get better answers.

I'm 100% against Capitalism; anyone who supports it after the events of the last few months needs to be put in a straight-jacket and carted off to the Loony Bin!
Neither do I want a totalitarian socialism. What follows logically and minimally from Marx is 3 categories of employment:
1. Self-employment
2. Collective self-employment - i.e. Cooperatives
3. State employment.
Each person chooses in which way to work. There is no Usury. You put your money in the bank and the bank manager invests it in businesses that he/the populace decide is worthwhile. He is paid by results: the more successful the enterprises that he invests in, the higher his salary. Lots of other inflammatory detail - could go on for hours but I won't

TPA said:

This is what I thought was the case. No takers.

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Fine then, I'll reply. Let's see how quickly I become a fool for posting. Anyway, my intention is to show what I've been studying, and find out what others think about it.

I voted for Capitalism, but I want a change: No more Fiat Money!

Money As Debt
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

Foundation for the Advancement of Monetary Education (FAME)
http://fame.org/

Liberty Dollar
http://libertydollar.org/

I've purchased the "Special $85 Offer":
http://www.libertydollar.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=292

It contains one each of $50, $20, $10, and $5 Silver Libertys (coins), a DVD video, a book, and other reading materials. I can post pictures if there is any interest.

The coins are legal for barter at merchants, if they will take them, but not legal tender. The banks don't want them, they only take FRNs (Federal Reserve Notes aka "dollar bills").

I've been reading the book "Liberty Dollar Solution to the Federal Reserve" included in the above offer.

It seems that much of our social ills are caused by fiat money. The banks like fiat paper money, because they can then make money out of nothing (debt). But fiat money is bad for workers, because their labor and savings loses value through inflation. The people lose control of the government, if the government controls the issuing of money.

The Federal Reserve System was created by Congress in 1913, and signed into law by former president Woodrow Wilson:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act_of_1913

Franklin Roosevelt confiscated all gold held by US citizens:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
However, Gerald Ford rescinded this order in 1974. I'm not sure if this means we can use gold for barter.

We can still use silver for barter, though, which is what Liberty Dollars do.

disadvantage

disadvantage said:

I voted for Capitalism, but I want a change: No more Fiat Money!

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paultrafalgar said:

I'm 100% against Capitalism; anyone who supports it after the events of the last few months needs to be put in a straight-jacket and carted off to the Loony Bin!
Neither do I want a totalitarian socialism.

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Mr Durden corrected me elsewhere that corruption is the root of all gov. problems, and I couldn't agree more. The founding fathers of the US (John Adams specifically) said that the system will work only for a moral people. We've seen that the introduction of greed and self promotion have brought down the house (almost).

So is there such a thing as a system that completely suppresses corruption, but still promotes individual freedom (or lack of oppression)?

This is what I've been pursuing. Since most people have not given a solution (possible exception of Mathurin), and tend to stay on the critical side, I assumed that there was little consideration given to the issue. I wanted to see where folks would come down when asked to give it a little more thought.

Actually, you can make surveys in that part of the forum.

To the survey here: I hope the US of A nukes something soon, that would be so cool.

Mathurin said:

I hope the US of A nukes something soon, that would be so cool.

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We just nuked the global financial system...
the initial blast did significant damage, but the fallout will be the gift that keeps on giving.

Superb! Can't wait! What about border posts?
Ain't it funny that the colour representation is reversed on this side of the pond? Here Red = Lefty Blue = Conservative.
... and you still believe in Capitalism!?

TylerDurden said:

Dear Red States:

We've decided we're leaving. We intend to form our own country, and we're taking the other Blue States with us. In case you aren't aware, that includes California, Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast. We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation, and especially to the people of the new country of New California.


To sum up briefly: You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states. We get stem cell research and the best beaches. We get the Statue of Liberty. You get Dollywood. We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom. We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss. We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs. You get Alabama. We get two-thirds of the tax revenue, you get to make the red states pay their fair share.


Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coalition's, we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms. Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro-choice and anti-war, and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need people to fight, ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose, and they don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets coming home. We do wish you success in Iraq , and hope that the WMDs turn up, but we're not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.


With the Blue States in hand, we will have firm control of 80 percent of the country's fresh water, more than 90 percent of the pineapple and lettuce, 92 percent of the nation's fresh fruit, 95 percent of America's quality wines, 90 percent of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the U.S. low-sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven Sister schools plus Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT. With the Red States, on the other hand, you will have to cope with 88 percent of all obese Americans (and their projected health care costs), 92 percent of all U.S. mosquitoes, nearly 100 percent of the tornadoes, 90 percent of the hurricanes, 99 percent of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100 percent of all televangelists, Rush Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia. We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.


Additionally, 38 percent of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, 62 percent believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the war, the death penalty or gun laws, 44 percent say that evolution is only a theory, 53 percent that Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61 percent of you crazy bastards believe you are people with higher morals then we lefties.


Finally, we're taking the good pot, too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mexico


Peace out,


Blue States

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And then We Alaskans will just Nuke you all fucktards......

Ahhhhh what the hey. My 2 cents.

Protectionism! Pull out, build a wall, close the borders and let freedom ring.

Heavy heavy tariffs on imports, Heavy! No helping foreign countries with food aid or military support. No poking in other countries business. Seriously, let them kill their native species or turn their environment into a waste pit. Any little bit of scum/sludge hits our property severely beat them into submission, like within a day. Cooperate on scientific endeavors with some of the more civilized.

Umm Yes to all the Bill of Rights, they are great. Yes to abortion... have to have population control, I'm sorry. Heavy monitoring of the Environmental, Agriculture, DrugBioMed, Political/Lobbyist, Financial, Monopolistic Corporate, and Social programs. HEAVY MONITORING!

Yes to medical marijuana if the patient so chooses. Definite no to relaxed drug laws. Stem Cell research, Yes, if not from embryos. Yes to separation of church and state. Yes to math and science, but lets not forget geography and history but a definite focus on science as a whole.

Be nice to... wait... REQUIRE! an extraordinary streamlining of the current system. Not in the government structure as such with judicial, state etc, but in the way they operate as a business.

Yes to national healthcare but again heavy monitoring with clear, concise transparency to the industry. Penalties to receive social programs for individuals in violation of laws. I'm sorry you begin to loose your rights at some point. Yes to the death penalty.

No secrets. No bullshit. And then after a decade or so see where the world is. I'm probably missing a lot but maybe another time eh?

JSP

Yes to medical marijuana if the patient so chooses. Definite no to relaxed drug laws

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you have to be dying or severely ill in this country to smoke a joint legally. how is that freedom?

sorry for being off topic

mud2008,

You ask how is that freedom? Well I shall give you some things to consider. Masturbation feels good right? Well you can't go around masturbating everywhere in public can you? You may say, "I'm not hurting anybody." But indeed just like masturbating in public you are bothering people by the smoke, the fact that you may be operating heavy machinery, or the act is otherwise offensive to others.

It may be offensive because like all addictive narcotics one becomes usually, habitually hooked in an effort to escape reality or to constantly feel pleasure. Its the habitual part thats offensive. And I personally would like the nations head in clear conscious. You may say, "Yeah well, humor is better and I feel less stressed yadda yadda." So maybe just a relaxing of the severity of ailment to merit a prescription is a better compromise.

But another thing is, its not the best for your health, so if there is a national healthcare, are we going to let people, or rather insure people who don't care about their bodies? Perhaps you wouldn't mind waiving the chance to have a life saving operation for the simple pleasure of a toke now and then.

I thought it was a kind of unspoken thing, you enjoy privacy I'm sure, like masturbation, keep it at home and you shouldn't have any problem. As long as your not smoking while driving are they really going to find that joint your taking to the party? Probably not. So I really don't see what the big deal is. Unless your into big deals.

And finally, how is that freedom? Well its freedom that you have a choice between an otherwise unbearable treatment with lots of nasty synthies, or a bit of reprieve from a mother earth provided remedy. And having that freedom is better than none.

JSP

I never said anything about smoking in public.

and don't forget tobacco and alcohol are harmful and addictive but legal.

Like some were pointing out in the healthcare thread, we'd spend less on healthcare if we just decided to have straightforward socialism instead of the half-ass socialism/favoritist capitalism we have now.

There are mainly two types of capitalism: the full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church, and the type that gets rightfully attacked but is then confused with the above, government favoritism capitalism. The latter is characterized by necessary violation of individual rights by special interests' economic control of the government.

I vote for moving away from the half-ass socialism/favoritist capitalism and to laissez-faire capitalism. With the information technology we have now, the individuals of this nation are more than able to take care of themselves. We are a grown society and don't need to be on the government tit.


As for the impact we have on our fellow citizens, I'm in favor of performance testing. It would be as simple as random road tests that would indicate impairment without even having to confront the drivers. I don't care if impairment is caused by alcohol, drugs, lack of sleep, old age, or incompetence. If you can't perform adequately, you should be removed from any situation that requires it. Heavy equipment carries enough liability for its owners that performance testing is a no-brainer. If you aren't violating anybody's individual rights by doing it, knock yourself out with your substance of choice.

I voted "some other system" because I don't think either of the first two choices exists in pure form anywhere in reality. I firmly believe in capitalism and private enterprise in areas where the free market works, which is almost everything. I firmly believe in government provided services where the free market does not work well, like for example health insurance, police, roads.

The world is a complex and beautiful place. Simple answers rarely apply well to all situations.

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.
— John Maynard Keynes, British economist (1883-1946)

Corporation, n.: An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility.
— Ambrose Bierce, columnist (1842-1914)

The higher the buildings, the lower the morals.
— Noel Coward, British actor, dramatist, songwriter (1899-1973)

No good decision was ever made in a swivel chair.
— George S. Patton, Army general (1885-1945)

We may pretend we are basically moral people who make mistakes, but the whole of history proves otherwise.
— Terry Hands, British theatre, opera director