Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

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Would you put a solar panel on your electric bike

Sure
8
42%
Maybe
4
21%
No
7
37%
 
Total votes: 19

bingbing304
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Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by bingbing304 » Nov 04, 2017 1:12 pm

Hello everyone

This is the solar bike upgrade I did for my bike. Full instruction and parts list on instrucatbles.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Sun-...-Bike-Upgrade/

Image

Does anyone would like to see an commercial version? If so, please check out http://www.solarbaskets.com.

FAQ

How much did the new hardware cost in total?
$250.

Where can I buy the following parts?
Solar Panel: Amazon $100
Control: Amazon $45
Wire Frame Rack: Amazon $50

How long did it take you to put it all together?
one days

What is the power rating of the Solar Panel? (Output: 12 – 18VDC)
50 Watt IPmax 2.7A VPmax 18Volt

What is the power rating of the battery?
24Volt Battery 8AH (5 hours to fully charge)
15 mile range on 250 Watt electric motor alone, 30 miles on power assist mode

What is the Power rating of the Regulator? (Input: ??) (Output: ??)
Adjustable Output 14-60 volt, 10A maximum

How much heavier is the bike now?
12lb heavier

Cephalotus
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Cephalotus » Nov 04, 2017 2:32 pm

Yes, but only on a trailer. To much shade and to little power otherwise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQv21h-D6QI

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQv21h-D6QI[/youtube]

The way you mounted your panel it will die very quickly because of microcracks in the cells.

Which type of MPT charger to you use? I use Genasun chargers. They are very good, but also very expensive.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by bingbing304 » Nov 04, 2017 10:31 pm

Cephalotus wrote:Yes, but only on a trailer. To much shade and to little power otherwise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQv21h-D6QI

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQv21h-D6QI[/youtube]

The way you mounted your panel it will die very quickly because of microcracks in the cells.

Which type of MPT charger to you use? I use Genasun chargers. They are very good, but also very expensive.
I used the MPT-7201A. It seems pretty common. 50 Watt panel output just about to marches the wall transformer provided for my 250 watt ebike conversion kit which is 29.4V 2A. Maximum I saw from the controller was around 27.8V 1.6A. The controller does try to track the voltage and current to maximize power output. To fully march the wall transformer rating, you would need a 75 Watt which is not a standard panel you can easily find and probably too large to have on the bike.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by osa57 » Dec 13, 2017 6:10 am

I have built a recumbent bike with front geared hub motor, 36V battery, 150W solar panel :D
Last summer I participated to the Sun Trip rally across France, Italy and Switzerland, I was able to get to the finish but I also learnt a lot!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3wTj- ... sp=sharing

This is the reason why for next year I am building a 'tilting trike' because I believe it is definitely more suitable for the installation of solar panels

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Chalo » Dec 13, 2017 6:35 am

Me? Maybe, depending on lots of factors. Like, does the vehicle have a roof anyway? What's the power that could be produced from a suitably sized panel versus how much juice does the the vehicle use? Is there any reason to have a separate power system for lighting and accessories (that could be used when the vehicle is propelled by muscle power, for instance)? Does the vehicle need to charge while it has no access to household power?

But generally speaking, it seems that onboard solar generation would be more trouble and expense, for less reward, than just using more battery and/or stationary solar charging.

The first e-bike I ever worked on was specifically designed with onboard solar charging. It worked as intended, though I suspect the solar charging system cost more than the rest of the bike.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by the e wind » Jan 09, 2018 12:20 pm

Hi all,

Adding a solar charging system to an e-bike is superior to adding a spare battery for these reasons:

- Recharging while moving. This means that when you get to the campsite at the end of the day of riding, you have enough power to ride for a couple hours the next morning until the sun is back out. 200 watts of solar, usually mounted on a bike utility trailer, is enough to allow for perpetual touring without any external charging. 50w is enough to recharge a normal (500w peak, 350w continuous, 12wh/mi) e-bike for 12 miles per day, and a more hungry American E-Bike (750w continuous, 16wh/mi) for 8 miles per day or more. This was estimated with the yearly average sun exposure (4.5 h/d @ 700w/square meter) for Boone, NC, which is not a very sunny place. READ: You don't have to stop for a charge unless that charge takes the form of espresso (it is a human-solar-electric hybrid after all)!
- Cost: 200w of solar panels mounted on a bike produce, on average, more than 650 w/h per day while touring (data gathered on the Sun Trip Tour 2017). 4x 50w panels, as seen in the solar basket instructable above, plus a Genasun GVB-8, costs about $550 total, plus some connectors and scrap wood (or old skis) that I'm sure all you EF'ers have at home. A 48v, 13.5ah dolphin battery currently costs $535 with a standard charger plus shipping, and when accounting for a 80% depth of discharge (DoD) battery cutoff, can provide up to 518wh of ueseable power per charge (probably less if you're using full throttle). My point is that adding a solar panel is the same price as adding a battery, except it charges itself and provides more power per day than a backup battery would (650+ w/h from solar vs <518 from spare batt @~500 bucks). The only real reason to go for a backup battery vs solar is if you plan on doing extended winter touring (you know who you are), where I would then still recommend a solar setup in conjunction with another battery. In the winter it is necessary to tilt the panels towards the sun, while in the summer, it's usually better to leave them flat.
- X factor: When you're riding a solar bike, you tend to have serendipitous meetings with every curious person who lives within a 1 mile radius of your route. This never gets old, and can be great for marketing.

Regarding weather: if rain or clouds move in while you're riding, there's a pretty good chance that you can ride away from the weather system before you run out of battery. If the bad weather is prolonged, then there's a good chance that you have already stopped at the nearest bar to dry off and assess the situation with the help a few local craft beers.

Here's a couple pictures of my first solar bike. If I did it again, I would remove one of the front panels for better balance. It wasn't impossible to ride, but you definitely have to predict the turns with a 4 foot solar panel over your handlebars. You can't really tell, but I handmade the panel mounting brackets out of a high-strength foam core composite material that utilizes flax fibers and Entropy One resin. Call it the hippy's carbon fiber, but it served it's purpose well (and with an exponentially lower carbon footprint):
https://www.thesuntrip.com/wp-content/u ... 24x683.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DD4ouHOXgAAgoQw.jpg
https://www.thesuntrip.com/wp-content/u ... etape1.jpg
This is us building a new solar bike in the middle of the Sun Trip Tour 2017. My advice from this is that you can't trust the 36v, 350w GnG mid drive kit when you're running 48v 25a through it all day. You can't ever trust the stock freewheel, even when run at spec, because it's a horribly shitty motor that will let you down when you least expect it.
https://i1.wp.com/www.thesuntrip.com/wp ... crop&ssl=1
And here is the 'ski-bike' (thanks to Jilbert of Vecolo for the loaner e-bike, Guilllaume of Declic Eco for the borrowed battery + 36v MPPT, and Oliver of The Sun Trip for the positive attitude, house full of tools, old ski's, and e-bike wisdom)
https://www.thesuntrip.com/wp-content/u ... 6527-2.jpg (yes, that is Mont Blanc in the background)
https://www.thesuntrip.com/wp-content/u ... 6549-3.jpg
Somehow the new, improvised 'ski bike' (36v Bafang BBSO1) lasted the rest of the trip. Here I am with Sushil Reddy, current Guinness World Record Holder for longest distance traveled on a solar charged e-bike. This is le Petite San Bernard pass; later that day, we also ascended the Gran St. Bernard pass. Sections of both have been featured in previous Tour De France races.
https://www.thesuntrip.com/wp-content/u ... d-pass.jpg

There are many advantages of solar e-bikes in addition to these 3, but I will let the truly curious find out for themselves. Please post pictures of your solar bike projects, EF'ers! After my participation in the Sun Trip Tour 2017, I can truly say that solar electric vehicles are humanity's next generation of mobility devices. I believe all E-Bikes could have at least a small panel to trickle charge the battery for periphery electronics, such as lights, tracking devices, horns, speakers, etc. In 2016, I saw a guy on the street in San Francisco powering a stereo with a solar panel, both of which were mounted on the front handlebars of his bike. If street people are doing it, why can't the rest of us? [Yes, this is a challenge to you all. I'm already working on my solar bike setup for the Sun Trip Tour 2019, and I don't intend on being the only American this time!]

Also, if you're interested, be sure to stay tuned to follow the Sun Trip tour 2018 online. These crazy folks are about to ride their solar bikes from France to China, a distance of around 8,000 miles. https://www.thesuntrip.com/sun-trip-201 ... canton-en/
I wish I could swing that one!
E-Bikes are like E-mail.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Cephalotus » Jan 09, 2018 3:09 pm

bingbing304 wrote:
Nov 04, 2017 10:31 pm

I used the MPT-7201A. It seems pretty common.
I have that too. It is cheap. BUT it doesn't use real MPP tracking and in partly shaded conditions (i.e. when the solar panel is mounted on your rack) it sadly becomes next to useless.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Cephalotus » Jan 09, 2018 3:14 pm

the e wind wrote:
Jan 09, 2018 12:20 pm
Hi all,

Here's a couple pictures of my first solar bike...
Hey the e wind!

Very cool to be able to talk to someone who did one of the Suntrips!

Is there any data available how the solar system performed day by day? What did work well and what didn't?

Any problems with microcracks in those sunpower cells? The crack very easily with vibration or even slight bending:-(

I asked the guys at the website but never received an answer. maybe not the ideal way if a German tries to get information from a French guy in mediocre English? :-/
50W_Sunpowerzellen_semiflexibel_b.jpg
One of my semiflexible 50W moduls under IR luminescense which shows micro cracks in the Sunpower cells
50W_Sunpowerzellen_semiflexibel_b.jpg (163.42 KiB) Viewed 422 times

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by the e wind » Jan 10, 2018 1:17 am

Two guys on a team had issues with cracked solar cells, and had to abandon the trip 1/2 way through. A corner of one of their solar panels literally broke off. This is after that panel's protective film had started bubbling in the heat of the day, and had been for several days at that point. Several more participants ran into either full panel failure, or reduced power output, but they were able to replace the panels or resort to wall charging at night.
The semi flexible solar panels we're all using for bikes are really lightweight, but they have a tendency to crack if not properly secured or secured with too much tension. They are made to flex up to 30% during installation, such as onto an RV, car hood, or other slightly curved surface, but they are not made to repeatedly bend during use. This is why I made the square mounting brackets for my panels.
Another guy on the trip represented a company called Photo Watt; he had created a prototype solar panel that was super light weight, but also rigid due to its foam core composite sandwich construction. His was all one unit, where I simply bolted my floppy panels onto a bracket.
My takeaways are that you should affix them to a flat plane, and that foam core composite mounting brackets has proved a lightweight, rugged way to prevent excess movement.
Regarding the day-to-day: yes, surprisingly, by the time the sun is up, your bike is raking in the watts, and will continue to do so until 5pm or later when the sun goes down. Obviously you get zero power in places like tunnels, and you get heavily reduced power when riding under, say, a long line of really thick old trees. My 300 watt solar array was providing about 180 watt hours during most of the day, with a spike to around 220 in the hottest part of the day. When I would lean back and shade one of the 3 subarrays, then the power may drop down to around 120. Each sub-array rated at 100w was giving around 60w/h during the sun, which is pretty good considering they were flat, constantly moved around, and had me sitting right in front of them. Sadly, I didn't take great data of the solar array, but I do know that my bike made over 9kw over the two week tour.
And yes, English is not the Sun Trip team's forte, but they are really the best people. My advice in communicating with them is to be short and direct; when I go off on a tangent to a French person who knows English as a 4th language, they usually lose me within 5 seconds.
E-Bikes are like E-mail.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by icerider » Jan 10, 2018 2:47 am

The semi flexible solar panels we're all using for bikes are really lightweight, but they have a tendency to crack if not properly secured or secured with too much tension. They are made to flex up to 30% during installation, such as onto an RV, car hood, or other slightly curved surface, but they are not made to repeatedly bend during use. This is why I made the square mounting brackets for my panels.
Another guy on the trip represented a company called Photo Watt; he had created a prototype solar panel that was super light weight, but also rigid due to its foam core composite sandwich construction. His was all one unit, where I simply bolted my floppy panels onto a bracket.
My takeaways are that you should affix them to a flat plane, and that foam core composite mounting brackets has proved a lightweight, rugged way to prevent excess movement.
But they are NOT made to repeatedly bend ... I agree. I had two Renogy 100W "semiflexible" panels that I treated VERY roughly for a year before they failed, but one of them actually caught FIRE when it failed. They were wired in series to give a Vmp close to the battery voltage but that meant that when one cell shorted, it had the full 200W available to set itself on fire -- I kept hearing a sound like paper blowing in the wind and finally realized it was flames licking around and through the hole that burned in the panel -- just disconnecting the panel put the fire out. I'm still using the other panel and have plans for a solar trailer but will be careful to fully support the semi-flexible panels next time.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Papa » Jan 10, 2018 3:31 am

Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle?
Not with any of the current, low efficiency PVs on the market. If the on-board battery is designed for the destination distance, why lower you vehicle's overall efficiency by carrying low efficient PVs?

1.) PVs are not cheap.
2.) PVs are easily damaged when not rigidly mounted - not to mention, traffic hazards.
3.) You'll be lucky to see 50% of the PVs rated output by chasing the sun.
4.) And good luck trying to warranty a damaged PV, if the retailer finds out how you used it.
5.) And just how do you secure it, so no one steals it when your back is turned?

I have a solar charge station - rigidly and securely mounted - at a fixed location. And it's aimed optimately for maximum output - and i carry more than enough Watts in lithium, to easily travel 99% of the distances i ride.

But if that's how you wish to spend your $... then by all means,.. go-for-it.
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by jonescg » Jan 10, 2018 7:25 am

Only reason I'd put a solar panel on the roof of an electric car is to top up the auxiliary battery, which can supplement a small fan keeping the battery cool or something. Otherwise it's rarely worth it.

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by LockH » Jan 10, 2018 8:15 am

Fun thread... to date:
Would you put a solar panel on your electric bike
(You may select 1 option):
Sure 7 44%
Maybe 2 13%
No 7 44%
Total votes: 16
:mrgreen: ... but so far the word "velo" - as in velomobile - hasn't popped up? As in:
Image

Features stuff like ("slightly") more aerodynamic [cough cough], but also a surface you might slather with "modern", thin-film solar cells. ... and might be more comfy when the weather is... less than optimum. :)
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by the e wind » Jan 10, 2018 10:00 am

Papa wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 3:31 am
Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle?
Not with any of the current, low efficiency PVs on the market. If the on-board battery is designed for the destination distance, why lower you vehicle's overall efficiency by carrying low efficient PVs?

1.) PVs are not cheap.
2.) PVs are easily damaged when not rigidly mounted - not to mention, traffic hazards.
3.) You'll be lucky to see 50% of the PVs rated output by chasing the sun.
4.) And good luck trying to warranty a damaged PV, if the retailer finds out how you use
d it.
5.) And just how do you secure it, so no one steals it when your back is turned?
Low efficiency? 20% is where PV is at right now. For comparison, your car also experiences 20% energy efficiency from it's dino juice. I'd say the playing fields are a lot closer than you think.

Solar charging isn't completely necessary for regular distances where you can charge at both point A and B. It's simply convenient to be able to leave the battery on the bike and not have to disconnect it to charge inside. 'What's that thing, is it a battery? Is that a LITHIUM battery? Are those things safe? OMG are you charging that on the wall???' (Regular encounter at the coffee shop, anyone?)
Solar really "shines" when you're
- A) riding to a place with no power, such as a hiking trail, the beach, or a campsite. It's great for charging your bike as well as camping accessories (lamps, stereo, computer, etc) at things like music festivals or over long distance touring.
- B) If you love the idea that your old 20th century 50cc moped's direct replacement (modern e-bike) can perpetually supply its own energy to itself without any need to recharge externally. This is very satisfying to anyone who's ever mixed 2 stroke oil into their dirty old moped that they bought for 'environmental reasons.' You'd better believe that if I lived in Puerto Rico, I would have a solar bike out of pure necessity.

So to recap your questions:
1) Please see above cost modeling that shows how addding a PV system to your bike, even with an expensive-@$$ Genasun controller, delivers more wh per day than a comparable spare battery.
2) Tell that to the crazy Sun Trip people who've made it thousands of miles with the same solar panels. High quality panels, as well as a good mounting strategy are key, but if done properly, your panels will provide years of reliable service. They will usually outlast a lithium battery made of typical 18650's. I've met several individuals, probably more than 10 at this point, who have completed >4,000mile tours with the same PV array. And to your traffic concern: I actually use my solar trailer in heavy traffic at home (Winston-Salem, NC) because I think if I get rear-ended, it'll give me an extra second to bail. I can't verify this sentiment by any measure other than getting hit by a car sucks, I am tired of it, and I would rather destroy their car with the sharp, angry, reflective corners of my PV panels than have a giant car come into contact with my body again.
3) Yes, it's called standard test conditions (STC). I would expect 100% output if I tilted it towards the sun, and rode due west through Arizona while it's a perfect 72 degrees at 2pm in the afternoon. If life were this predictable, I would have bought a couple dozen Bitcoins a few years ago... You 1) take the rating of the panel, 2) multiply by the avg solar irradiance of your area (Boone, NC is 700 w/sq m, so x .7, because STC is 1000w/ sq m) then you multiply by the average sun hours in a day (Boone is 4.5). Example: My 300w solar array, at 70% irradiance, for an avg of 4.5 hours per day, would give me 945 wh on an average day. If my bike gets 16wh/mi, which it does if I'm not challenging cars at green lights, then 945/16 = 59 miles per day. Now, if I start with a full battery, I could easily ride 75-80 miles on an average day. Obviously in January you can slash that number, and in July you can increase the sun hours to, say, 6 per day (100+ miles), but the math stays the same. If I had spent the same amount of money on another battery (as shown above), then I would be getting 518.4 wh per charge, enough to only go a measly 32.4 miles. Add 15 to that, and your daily range is 47+ miles compared to the 75+ miles you would get from PV at the same cost.
4) Simple, either don't tell them, or become a dealer :)
5) I'm not here to say it won't get stolen, but that it probably won't happen. Chances are if you're riding a labor of love covered in solar panels, you probably park it in the window. You probably tour with at least 3 locks, maybe pepper spray, and possibly a GPS tracking system. You may even have a blog documenting the project on a forum like this. Cedric, the Sun Trip director, told me once that he got out of a really hairy situation in eastern europe by telling the would-be maurauding theives that he was a news reporter who was streaming his whole trip live in France. They got pretty scared of being recorded while trying to illegally blackmail travelers, so after Cedric pointed to the go-pro (that was actually off at the time), they decided to leave and possibly prey on someone less 'special.' Yes, I've heard the story that once an entire solar car, team trailer, and mobile workshop were stolen from a University just minutes after parking outside the CNN center in Atlanta. The thieves easily scored over 1/2 a million dollars in expensive stuff, but do you think they were after a solar car, or just at it to sell whatever was in the trailer? The most stolen car in America is not the Mustang, it's the Honda Accord. If I were the guy who stole the solar car, I'd be pissed, because imagine how hard it is to part out and sell something like that? I would much prefer that the trailer was full of Harleys, or mufflers, or something that would go unnoticed upon resale. I'd say to do such a custom, one off job at your bike that the would-be thief takes one look and ways, 'shit, I'm gonna go rob the liquor store instead, because I have no idea how this ridiculous solar bike even works, let alone who to sell it to.'
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by LockH » Jan 10, 2018 10:35 am

the e wind wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 10:00 am
Low efficiency? 20% is where PV is at right now. For comparison, your car also experiences 20% energy efficiency from it's dino juice. I'd say the playing fields are a lot closer than you think.
Am sure this is "ballpark"-true for EVeryman/"average Joe" today, but might expect this to improve in the future... from April last year:

Solar cell design with over 50% energy-conversion efficiency:
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-solar-cel ... iency.html

Have NO idea off hand if there's some theoretical max... :)
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Papa » Jan 10, 2018 4:09 pm

the e wind wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 10:00 am
Low efficiency? 20% is where PV is at right now.
And a whopping 15% 12 years ago, when i purchased a 185w Sanyo HIT - let's see,.that's less than 0.5% improvent in PV efficiency per/yr. Just means the manufactures' are intentially withholding improvements, just to maintain PV sales volume.

It's safe to assume that the vast majority of die-hard EV bikers/owners don't ride distances which requires off-grid charging - I certainly don't... and won't until PV efficiency vastly improves >50%

Yet again... spend your $ as you wish....
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Chalo » Jan 10, 2018 4:30 pm

Papa wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 4:09 pm
let's see,.that's less than 0.5% improvent in PV efficiency per/yr. Just means the manufactures' are intentially withholding improvements, just to maintain PV sales volume.
You think that's how the semiconductor industry works? It takes a lot of money and manpower to squeeze out small technical improvements. I don't think anybody in the sector is bringing things to market any more slowly than as fast as they can afford to do it.
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by billvon » Jan 10, 2018 6:33 pm

Papa wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 4:09 pm
And a whopping 15% 12 years ago, when i purchased a 185w Sanyo HIT - let's see,.that's less than 0.5% improvent in PV efficiency per/yr. Just means the manufactures' are intentially withholding improvements, just to maintain PV sales volume.
Actually I think that means that all the low hanging fruit has been taken, and further improvements are taking a lot of money and time for a half a percent at a time efficiency increase.
--bill von

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by wturber » Jan 10, 2018 7:28 pm

Maybe. It makes no sense for a daily commuter which is my main use. I'd think long and hard about it if I were doing a long distance tour - especially if I was in the Southwest where i live and/or if I'd be camping rather than staying in hotels. Other than that, I'd consider it if I just wanted to enjoy the notion/experience of biking hundreds of miles without grid power.

While I like the idea of being off the grid, the pragmatic side of me finds it hard to ignore that a kilowatt-hour of power in the U.S. costs about 12 cents. So its tough to justify spending many hundreds of dollars and putting up with the inconvenience of the panels just so I can harvest pocket change amounts of solar power. I think someone posted in this thread that he harvested 9 kwh of power in two weeks. That's a bit more than a dollar's worth of juice. Now that's dear if you can't find a plug. But if not, it's a pretty inefficient expenditure of money.
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Cowardlyduck » Jan 10, 2018 9:00 pm

This works for me:
Image

Gets me an average of about 60Wh per day in summer left outside while I'm at work:
Image

Details in my thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... &start=275

The setup of this panel on my recumbent also contributes to the overall efficiency of the bike via the reduction in air drag through the panels creation of a laminar air flow around me when at speeds over 30kph. Win win. :mrgreen:

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LockH
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by LockH » Jan 11, 2018 12:36 am

Hehe... In one unscientific study "Would you put a solar panel on your electric bike?", so far more than half would (be at least interested...)

Question please? Size of global electric bicycle market so far... AND, how many already have solar generation? Therefore, how many folks might spring for a kit?... Cells and bits in package...

:mrgreen:

Wanna "bulk buy"? Crowd source the "ES Solar Bike Kit"? :wink:
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Chalo » Jan 11, 2018 1:59 am

I can't imagine that any one kind of mobile PV kit would work for a subgroup of us, unless a whole bunch of us buy Surreys and want PV power to run our stereos and mini fridges while we hang out at the beach.

Image

Otherwise, there will be enough divergence of vehicle type, power requirements, size and weight expectations, budget, and technical ability, that everybody will want something fundamentally different.
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LockH
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by LockH » Jan 11, 2018 3:22 am

^^ Understand C... but re any "ES Kit", at least start with "modern", "thin-film" panels ... watt are "small" but can be connected to make `em - their outputs - "bigger", plus being flexible in shape, can be mounted over more vehicle and cargo vehicle designs...

The "ES Kit" would have to be "modular"? (Include "spares" if not used right away...) AFAIK, the outputs from solar cells degrade over time (WHEN EXPOSED TO SUNLIGHT...), so having a few solar panels "in stock" might be an advantage, "long-term".

Hehe... from February, last year: Printable solar cells just got a little closer:
http://news.engineering.utoronto.ca/pri ... le-closer/
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

Cephalotus
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by Cephalotus » Jan 11, 2018 3:38 am

Papa wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 4:09 pm
the e wind wrote:
Jan 10, 2018 10:00 am
Low efficiency? 20% is where PV is at right now.
And a whopping 15% 12 years ago, when i purchased a 185w Sanyo HIT - let's see,.that's less than 0.5% improvent in PV efficiency per/yr. Just means the manufactures' are intentially withholding improvements, just to maintain PV sales volume.
Solar cells with more than 30% efficiency have been built for more than 30 years, but there is no market for them today, because those cells are ultra expensive and have mostly been used for race solar cars (1 million USD +), satellites and high concentration solar PV modules with very tiny cells. Almost all of those markets have gone away.

Standard today is the c-Si cell and you have the Shockley-Queisser limit for those. This is a physical barrier and related to the spectrum of our sun.

If you want to spend a million USD for your solar bike you can use some multijunction GaAs or othe cells if you find someone willing to sell them to you, otherwise you use c-Si cells and those are at around 22% and improvemnets have been so small because they are already near their physical limits. In this ultra competitive market noone holds back any improvements, because otherwise their company would die as many have done already.
Last edited by Cephalotus on Jan 11, 2018 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LockH
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Re: Would you put solar panel on your electric vehicle

Post by LockH » Jan 11, 2018 4:05 am

^^ "those cells are Ultra expensive"... Question please? "Ultra expensive" to purchase, or cost per mile/km overall, before final recycling/replacement...
ES changed my life (for the waaaaay better).

Eff. June, 2014 Phoenix Ebike Promotions

(Current ride? High speed lawn chair.)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=57408

Phoenix Ebike Promotions conversion kit (work in progress. More drink holders, etc etc)
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 15&t=60564

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